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So Linux being "ready for the desktop" needs to support every device known to man? You realize how many devices have trouble or dont work in Windows even with the drivers?

Come on man, according to talk like this Linux will never be "ready for the desktop".

He didn't say that. And he's right that wireless device support sucks on Linux. The few that work, work. Those that don't are in the worst possible boat: They can teasingly work until they crash your system (ndiswrapper).

He just said better, not perfect. Even XP doesn't support every single card out there...much less well.

They can teasingly work until they crash your system (ndiswrapper).

For Broadcom chipsets, driverloader is a much better solution that ndiswrapper (well, until this is included in the kernel, that is...)

//it's only been available under Windows for like years...//

and that would be applicable to *this* story because ...

Obviously you didn't read the article. This code was just released as FOSS and apparently recently written.

So, no, unless by some freak accident NDIS is exactly the same as this code it has not been in Windows for years.

Not that it would matter anyway.

does hibernate "just" works already?

Although this is quite off-topic (and accordingly modded down), I'll respond anyway: yes, it does, depending on your hardware. Just like Sleep (suspend-to-RAM).

No, they weren't lies. You could still use WiFi, but you had to use less-than-ideal solutions such as ndiswrapper or driverloader.

But please, don't let facts get in the way of your anti-Linux agenda!

Clearly they were lies, and you just admitted it yourself by saying that the previous solutions were less-than-ideal.

Remember, the statement was that Linux was a viable alternative for mobile Windows/OSX users.

If you're no able to get this. Parent is talking about less than ideal HW situation. He talks about the same HW HCL as I do.

And in right HW HCL case. Yes, it is a viable alternative.

This article just means that more HW will be able to set right HW HCL conditions.

No, they were not lies. It worked, and it was easy to set up (Linuxant in particular did a very good job with driverloader). It was less-than-ideal because the drivers weren't included in the kernel, and couldn't therefore be installed automatically.

In a way, by saying "less-than-ideal" I meant "similar to how it works in Windows", because you had to install the drivers instead of them working out-of-the-box. Now, with this new driver stack, things will be "ideal", or in other words "better than in Windows"...

Please carry on with your fallacious, emotional and off-topic attacks on Linux.

were all those times that Linux evangelists told us that Linux was a viable and easy-to-use replacement for mobile Windows/OS X users lies? Must have been ... hmm.

As I was one of them:) Nope, I was always specific about HCL HW use. Me for example, I've got a lot more trouble with bluetooth and Wi-Fi under Windows than on Linux, but then again I have Intel2200, which is very well supported. NM does wonders for me. As does BT support, which painfully sucks on Windows.

I still stand behind the same words. Wi-Fi and BT under Windows is clumsy and unreliable. /*personal opinion*/

I have supported wireless hardware. And yes it is that easy. Network manager does wonders. With the version in dapper I can even connect to my psk encypted network with no problems.

yes

[bad joke] oh, no it isn't as simple as clicking drop down box. NM presents you with menu. [/bad joke]

http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/

Edited 2006-05-02 19:20

With NetworkManager, it is in fact that simple. Simpler, in fact, because it will remember your networks and automatically connect you to them when in range.

Oh, and KDE has kwifi, which also makes it that easy.

Oh, and KDE has kwifi, which also makes it that easy.

Actually, NetworkManager works great with KDE using knetworkmanager. I personally like it better than kwifi or wifi-radar, though these are all pretty good.

Hmm knetwerkmanager, where can we grab it? I only see it in SVN, you know any source snapshots?

So if you have supported hardware, connecting to a wireless network in Linux is as simple as clicking a drop-down box, and clicking a network name?

Do tell.

Okay.

I'm using a fully supported Prism2-based wireless card, with Ubuntu Dapper beta and NetworkManager. Yes, it's exactly as simple as you have (sarcastically?) suggested. NetworkManager finds all the wireless connections in range, and you can select the one you want from a drop-down list. Or you can type in a particular ESSID if your router doesn't broadcast. Or you can create a new ad-hoc wireless network if there's no access point in range.

Oh, and provided your card supports it, you can do all this with full support for WEP and WPA.

Any more questions?

The trouble with hardware support in Linux is that Linux is a rapidly moving target. What works today might not work tomorrow. That's inherent in the development model. A closed proprietary model can control -- allow or forbid -- code changes that affect compatibility, A very closed model, like Apple's, can do that very, very well. Consumer choice is also very restricted, of course, but there's less worry about the false choice represented by options that may or may not work.

A case in point are the RaLink drivers, which apparently don't work with SMP kernels at the moment. If one agency or organization controlled both -- the drivers and the kernel -- they could choose to hold the kernel back until it didn't break the drivers. Or, vice versa.

Yes, open source can respond to isse very rapidly, But, there's no one playing God who can say: Don't Do A Until B Is Ready.

Yes, open source can respond to isse very rapidly, But, there's no one playing God who can say: Don't Do A Until B Is Ready.

Actually, as far as the kernel goes, there is: Linus. The Devicescape driver stack is a good example of this: it works, it's been tested, and it's very promising, but it won't get added into the kernel until Linus and his team say "go!"

In reality, apart from a few isolated examples, it's a very rare occurence for hardware to stop working when a new kernel comes out. The good thing about it is, if it happens, just don't upgrade your kernel.

In any case, this is great news for Linux WiFi, any way you cut it. Please stay on-topic...

It was, if you had a centrino laptop .

Comments are modded down when they are off-topic, just like yours were. Since, for an article like this, most attacks on Linux are off-topic, they are consequently modded down.

Please note that Linux still had wireless support before this. My Kubuntu laptop has Broadcom chipset, and yet I use it daily to connect at various access point throughout the city. It's just that this will make it even easier.

Did you read the article? It's been released, the code is licensed, the license is compatible; it doesn't say that explicitly but it's implicit in the plans to modify it for mainline distribution.

There is a driver out there, just the kernel devs insist on including a crippled one, as that is all that is open source, so it is understandable

This is simply not true. They included the full driver, but following a complaint from Logitech, with a threat of possible IP theft, kernel devs removed the full driver, and went back to the clean room implementation they were sure about.

"This is simply not true. They included the full driver, but following a complaint from Logitech, with a threat of possible IP theft, kernel devs removed the full driver, and went back to the clean room implementation they were sure about."

That is definitely how I would like to believe it, and will give the benefit of the doubt. All references I have found were by the original author of the pwcx module, the binary portion of it, where nothing about Logitech was mentioned.

I did not know that...what's the module name?