Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 12th Mar 2007 17:38 UTC, submitted by sogabe
BeOS & Derivatives Haiku has its first distribution, but it's not coming from the Haiku development team. Pingwinek has just released GNU/Haiku 0.1.0, what is claimed to be (probably?) the first distribution of the Haiku operating system, coming from Poland. According to the Pingwinek home page, GNU/Haiku consists of the base Haiku system plus 40 packages ported from the Pingwinek GNU/Linux distribution, and it includes the GCC 2.95.3 compiler, several simple games, SDL, Midnight Commander, and ncurses. GNU/Haiku can be run from a HDD, in QEMU and VMWare or as a Live CD. Screenshots are available, and the images can be download from this page.
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One step forward
by Ford Prefect on Mon 12th Mar 2007 17:56 UTC
Ford Prefect
Member since:
2006-01-16

This is nice for the Haiku project, it's a 3rd party contribution showing more people get involved with it. Also it can lead to much more recognition not only on the user side.

Best wishes for that funny distro!

Reply Score: 5

I´l put my money where my mouth is...
by BSDrama on Mon 12th Mar 2007 18:14 UTC
BSDrama
Member since:
2006-11-27

and try the live cd. Will report as soon as possible.

TIA

Reply Score: 2

Good Work
by tejaskokje on Mon 12th Mar 2007 18:14 UTC
tejaskokje
Member since:
2005-07-18

Excellent..at least somebody set the ball rolling for Haiku. Looking forward for things like this.

Reply Score: 1

But... Haiku isn't ready for this.
by Mage66 on Mon 12th Mar 2007 18:20 UTC
Mage66
Member since:
2005-07-11

Haiku hasn't left Alpha stage yet. It's still in development. I don't think it's developers think it's ready to be a 1.0 release.

And I didn't know that Richard Stallman had anything to do with Haiku. How can they call it GNU/Haiku?

They are putting out new builds every day. This thing is already using obsolete code.

Reply Score: 2

thjayo Member since:
2005-11-11

They put some GNU software on it, from what I understand.
Hence the name ;)

Anyway, the fact that Haiku is still alpha is the reason I haven't moved forward with my own distribution, and I believe most of the future distro-makers think that way.

Reply Score: 1

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Well, duh - Haiku comes with GNU software (hello: bash!)

But anyway, that doesn't mean it has to be named GNU/Haiku - that's really quite annoying as there's no requirement that it do so. (last I checked, the GPL didn't require that the use of GNU software be specified in the product name).

I'm a little disappointed in this "first distro" - I think it's slightly in bad taste, but I'll reserve my judgment as this is really just my opinion.

Reply Score: 5

ahwayakchih Member since:
2006-03-22

I'm a little disappointed in this "first distro" - I think it's slightly in bad taste, but I'll reserve my judgment as this is really just my opinion.

I thought exactly the same the moment i read the news and saw first screenshots.

Not only it's IMHO too early, but also putting GNU in the name and Penguin as logo/wallpaper is... well... not what i'd like to see.

BTW "Pingwinek" means "Small penguin" in Polish language, so it can have double meaning (one which is kinda offensive).

Reply Score: 5

dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

OTOH, he cannot call it Haiku if I remember correctly. Yet again, hit's not the best chosen name - especially not considering some of the (granted, very few) anti-GPL zealots one can find in the Haiku forums ;) - I must admit my toes curled a bit in horror from seeing the name ;)

However - looking at the website it's not difficult to understand why the name is GNU/Haiku.

Reply Score: 2

Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

How many percent of the software coming with this distro would you subject to be GNU software?

Reply Score: 2

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

How many percent of the software coming with this distro would you subject to be GNU software?

Oh, i started by responding to what Haiku comes with, but then I realized this guy added a bunch of software (for no apparent reason) - so I wouldn't know.

Edited 2007-03-12 21:53

Reply Score: 2

computrius Member since:
2006-03-26

Heh.. Linux isnt ready for a 1.0 release either, that hasn't stopped them ;)

Reply Score: 1

deb2006 Member since:
2006-06-26

Yeah, sure - that's the reason why Linux is being used in mission critical environments, as embedded system, as real time system etc. p.p. Wake up, kiddie ;)

Reply Score: 1

Vibe Member since:
2007-03-12

Yeah, sure - that's the reason why Linux is being used in mission critical environments, as embedded system, as real time system etc. p.p. Wake up, kiddie ;)

Who cares? Linux does stuff. Windows does stuff. Big deal. That's their space. There's is no point in Haiku getting sucked in or rolled over by that. The core people seem content with saving a proper market rollout until it's finished. Good. It sure beats broken crap, elitism, and squabbling.

Edited 2007-03-13 21:53

Reply Score: 2

deb2006 Member since:
2006-06-26

The OP said that "Linux isnt ready for a 1.0 release either, that hasn't stopped them". And that's crap. My comment referred to that. I don't compare Linux to Haiku (I cannot compare a fully functional, proven system to an alpha release).

Reply Score: 1

Vibe Member since:
2007-03-12

The OP said that "Linux isnt ready for a 1.0 release either, that hasn't stopped them". And that's crap. My comment referred to that. I don't compare Linux to Haiku (I cannot compare a fully functional, proven system to an alpha release).

Well, you can compare Linux to BeOS, which is a proven and release ready system. Haiku is a reimplementation of that. Linux may have more runnable code but it's a shifting design landscape, while Haiku is a nailed down design and shifting code landscape. Linux wants to be everything to everybody, Haiku is focused. Bottom line? It depends what you want.

Reply Score: 1

Katisu Member since:
2007-02-21

There is still a misconception of what should truly be considered Haiku. Haiku is a new os based on concepts from BeOS. It is not intended as a complete recreation of BeOS. If it was, there would be all sorts of changes needed. One of the reasons they are currently patterning it on the current BeOS architecture is to have a solid base to follow.

Also, Haiku is not just about being an OS. The project involves a philosophy that one should not have to become an expert about the OS or its UI in order to use it. There was recent discussion about this and what the goals of R1 are supposed to be. Since it is only meant as a base, R1 is mainly intended for existing BeOS and alternative OS users. In effect, R1 will not embody the full Haiku philosophy.

As for GNU/Haiku, I've taken the time to try it. I had trouble running some of the applications and games and in general don't get the point of this distribution. It seems to be more intended as a "hey..look what I can do" distribution more than anything. It demonstrates why Haiku isn't ready for distribution yet. Imagine all the complaints about it not running on this or that hardware. More power to him when the complaints do come rolling in.

He states in the download section it is intended be used by developers. How smart is it to develop and compile code on a kernel that still needs work? The recommended method for serious development work is that it be done on BeOS/Zeta or even Linux and then tested on a seperated Haiku partition. If you are a developer you should be smart enough to know how to do this without a "livecd". If anything you would rather make sure you are testing on the latest version.

Edited 2007-03-15 02:21

Reply Score: 3

Irony
by ajoffe on Mon 12th Mar 2007 18:23 UTC
ajoffe
Member since:
2006-05-27

Kind of ironic that the first distribution of Haiku has this slightly Linux-y theme to it, given the whole point of Haiku is not to be another Linux.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Irony
by npang on Mon 12th Mar 2007 23:52 UTC in reply to "Irony"
npang Member since:
2006-11-26

Not really. This guy/team aims to provide a usable free operating system. He just decided to use parts from the Linux, Haiku and GNU projects to achieve his vision.

Edited 2007-03-13 00:09

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Irony
by Vibe on Tue 13th Mar 2007 01:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Irony"
Vibe Member since:
2007-03-12

Not really. This guy/team aims to provide a usable free operating system. He just decided to use parts from the Linux, Haiku and GNU projects to achieve his vision.

Then he should call it something else, not bleed off either the GNU or Haiku names. Not only is it rude it's theft and confuses the minds of potential customers which, in Haiku's case, I hope isn't just developers scratching an itch but real customers who just want to get stuff done.

Edited 2007-03-13 01:06

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Irony
by dylansmrjones on Tue 13th Mar 2007 15:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Irony"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

It is not theft. It could be considered rude (with the goals of Haiku in mind), but even that could be argued not to be true.

Confusing OTHO - I'll grant you that. But puhlease forget about "theft" - there is absolutely no theft here. Actually the Haiku-based system is not called GNU/Haiku. It is called Pingwinek GNU/Haiku and the Linux-based version is called Pingwinek GNU/Linux.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Irony
by Soulbender on Wed 14th Mar 2007 03:50 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Irony"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"It could be considered rude (with the goals of Haiku in mind)"

And it could be considered trademark infringement.
Other than that though, people can bitch and moan all they want because pingwinek can do whatever the hell he want with the Haiku code within the limitations of the license and creating an immature distro isn't a violation.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Irony
by Vibe on Wed 14th Mar 2007 05:45 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Irony"
Vibe Member since:
2007-03-12

And it could be considered trademark infringement. Other than that though, people can bitch and moan all they want because pingwinek can do whatever the hell he want with the Haiku code within the limitations of the license and creating an immature distro isn't a violation.

...And people can "bitch and moan" if Haiku made life difficult for them by not granting use of their trademark in the future, such as not allowing a distribution to call itself Haiku compatible or make use of the Haiku logo. A relationship works both ways, darling.

Reply Score: 1

Current build is 20378
by Mage66 on Mon 12th Mar 2007 18:23 UTC
Mage66
Member since:
2005-07-11

The screen shot is showing build 20362 I believe.

Build 20379 will be out tomorrow...

Reply Score: 1

In Other News
by mmu_man on Mon 12th Mar 2007 18:30 UTC
mmu_man
Member since:
2006-09-30

I did a conference about Haiku at the Numerica DTV ART PARTY #01 this saturday:
http://numerica.demoscene.tv/
Slides are available here:
http://revolf.free.fr/beos/Numerica/
A video should be available this week or so.

Reply Score: 4

RE: In Other News
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 12th Mar 2007 18:46 UTC in reply to "In Other News"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Let me know when the video's available (either via email or via our submission system) and we'll post it, obviously ;) .

Reply Score: 1

RE: In Other News
by makc on Tue 13th Mar 2007 16:42 UTC in reply to "In Other News"
makc Member since:
2006-01-11

it's nice to try to involve us (the demoscene) into haiku <3
but it will be difficult at least there's no support for quite advanced graphics (no, mesa isn't enough :/) or the interest in finding an accelerated way for the system (a vista-like graphical subsystem and app-server on top -not the looks!- i'd say). and some time ago i didn't succeed to convince mr phipps (i can see his reasons tho').

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: In Other News
by mmu_man on Tue 13th Mar 2007 17:57 UTC in reply to "RE: In Other News"
mmu_man Member since:
2006-09-30

It wasn't necessarily only for the demoscene.
Plus I was invited there, so.
As for accelerated 3D, well, we do have some drivers already, even if not finished. Rudolf stopped developping them, still I heard some linux folks contacted him asking for info, so it seems he was a bit ahead there ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: In Other News
by makc on Wed 14th Mar 2007 00:14 UTC in reply to "RE: In Other News"
makc Member since:
2006-01-11

ok, so i should send my <3s to willbe and/or guys at adan for inviting you i guess ;)

ps: i know about the status of the drivers, and i had contacted mphipps to know his opinion and arguments on the impact of such a change, offering to do it mostly myself. while i think it's still awfully important to plan it, i agree with his points on not being important for R1 goal and in maybe being a too big 'investment' atm. if i'm loosing something, feel free to bash me ;)

edited for ps

Edited 2007-03-14 00:24

Reply Score: 1

mirrors?
by lqsh on Mon 12th Mar 2007 18:37 UTC
lqsh
Member since:
2007-01-01

ftp download site is maxed

Reply Score: 1

zizban
by zizban on Mon 12th Mar 2007 19:42 UTC
zizban
Member since:
2005-07-06

So let me get this straight: You took an alpha quality OS, ported 40 GNU utilities to it and released it? I mean, kudos for the effort but did you even test it?

Reply Score: 5

poland
by macisaac on Mon 12th Mar 2007 19:45 UTC
macisaac
Member since:
2005-08-28

is it just me, or does there seem to be a number of interesting things (in terms of alternative OSes) from Poland of late?

(note, I'm not Polish)

Reply Score: 4

RE: poland
by michuk on Mon 12th Mar 2007 21:14 UTC in reply to "poland"
michuk Member since:
2006-08-08

Polish remarkable distros:
- KateOS -- a new project, GNU/Linux desktop system, review: http://polishlinux.org/linux/kateos/kateos-live-32-beta-a-lightweig...
- PLD Linux -- old one, for servers mostly, lots of innovative features but they suck at marketing, short description: http://polishlinux.org/linux/pld/
- Aurox Linux -- a Fedora-based Linux distro, currentky targetted on Eastern European market and Germany
- Lintrack -- a Linux distribution for routers and for ISP providers, here's review: http://polishlinux.org/linux/lintrack/lintrack-linux-for-isp/

Have I missed something?
michuk

PS. Yes, I'm Polish ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: poland
by kajaman on Mon 12th Mar 2007 21:21 UTC in reply to "poland"
kajaman Member since:
2006-01-06

Yes, there is some interesting projects comming from Poland. It's amazing how often I download some new app, test it and look into credits, just to find out that main developer is some guy from Poland. I think we're going to catch our western neighbours from Germany soon (while they still rule in KDE community ;) ).

Reply Score: 1

GNU/?
by johndaly on Mon 12th Mar 2007 20:22 UTC
johndaly
Member since:
2006-01-16

He can name his distribution whatever he wants but calling it GNU/something not just a bit strange (considering that the command line and dev tools where GNU anyway) but it usually always leads to somebody abusing the FSF even if they don't have anything to do with it. Labeling something GNU or not should be business of the FSF and in the case of Linux they and specifically RMS do this because Linux is just a Kernel and they want to differentiate between Linux the Kernel and the Linux based distributions. That's why you don't hear them screaming "it's GNU/MacOSX" just because they use the same command line and dev tools as Linux, Haiku and others.

Besides that there is also the fact that most of the software is not GNU software but just GPL licensed software. GPL software != GNU software!

Regardless of how ancient the software is or how bad the choice of desktop wallpaper is, I really don't appreciate the snickering do to some guys bad name choice for his Haiku distribution.

Edited 2007-03-12 20:24

Reply Score: 3

RE: GNU/?
by rayiner on Mon 12th Mar 2007 21:45 UTC in reply to "GNU/?"
rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

GPL = GNU Public License.

I think you meant, "GPL software != FSF software!".

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: GNU/?
by johndaly on Mon 12th Mar 2007 22:12 UTC in reply to "RE: GNU/?"
johndaly Member since:
2006-01-16

That's hairsplitting, The GNU Public License is just a license and the FSF created it for its GNU project but that doesn't imply that GPL licensed software is somehow part of the GNU project. Neither does the absence of the GPL somehow imply that software is not part of the GNU project as is evident in the MIT licensed ncurses library.

But overall, yes you are right, I mean GPL software != FSF software, I just don't usually distinguish between FSF and the GNU project.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: GNU/?
by wannabe geek on Mon 12th Mar 2007 22:16 UTC in reply to "RE: GNU/?"
wannabe geek Member since:
2006-09-27

GPL = General Public License != GNU software

This may help to clarify:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html

Reply Score: 1

RE: GNU/?
by Soulbender on Tue 13th Mar 2007 05:04 UTC in reply to "GNU/?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"He can name his distribution whatever he wants"

Actually he can't since "Haiku" is a trademark.

Reply Score: 5

Weird name, but...
by Luposian on Mon 12th Mar 2007 20:42 UTC
Luposian
Member since:
2005-07-27

As long as it actually works, I dun really care. I've been trying to get that *other* "LiveCD" thing over at BeBits to work and it never has. Wasted a couple CD-R's trying. Maybe this one was done right? I can hope.

As long as putting "GNU Haiku" doesn't somehow automatically make Haiku "GPLified", I'm ok with the name. Or if only that distro is "GPLified", but Haiku, itself is not, I'll be ok with it.

I'm kinda hoping that maybe, just MAYBE... those Pingwinek people have done a little something to maybe, just MAYBE... fix (or work around) that "issue that shall not be named, but is only brought up by Luposian 110% of the time".

But I'm not holding my breath...

Reply Score: 0

No. Please...
by ple_mono on Mon 12th Mar 2007 21:13 UTC
ple_mono
Member since:
2005-07-26

I had hoped the coming of haiku would be the end of my distro hopping!

Reply Score: 1

RE: No. Please...
by r_a_trip on Mon 12th Mar 2007 21:34 UTC in reply to "No. Please..."
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

I had hoped the coming of haiku would be the end of my distro hopping!

Hopping is a choice. Once you stop, you will find peace in one distro of choice.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: No. Please...
by nmalth on Mon 12th Mar 2007 22:27 UTC in reply to "RE: No. Please..."
nmalth Member since:
2007-03-12

Hang on, that doesn't scan.

try:

Hopping is a choice
When you stop, you discover
Peace in one distro.

;-)

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: No. Please...
by r_a_trip on Mon 12th Mar 2007 22:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: No. Please..."
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

Hang on, that doesn't scan.

What do you expect from a longtime GNU/Linux user? Japanese poetry and BeOS systems are not really on the radar, although it is nice knowing Haiku is around.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: No. Please...
by axel on Tue 13th Mar 2007 02:50 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: No. Please..."
axel Member since:
2006-02-04

GNU/Linux users are better at multi level recursive acronyms than haikus

Reply Score: 4

Trademark Infringement
by Vibe on Mon 12th Mar 2007 22:01 UTC
Vibe
Member since:
2007-03-12

My biggest hope for Haiku is that it retains its design ethos and doesn't get distracted with side issues or sucked into a blind alley. Grabbing an alpha of Haiku, bundling a mix of applications which don't comply with the Haiku desktop, and hijacking the Haiku trademark undermines this.

If someone wants to create a distribution, I have no problem with that. If they want to call it Haiku or Haiku compatible, then we get into another area. People complained when Microsoft hijacked Java. This isn't any different in principle.

Zeta is Zeta, and Linux is Linux. I can't stand either of them but won't get in the way of the choices they make. I want to focus on seeing Haiku succeed, and that won't happen if people are allowed to get away with ripping it off or trying to hijack it.

Note: I'm so pissed I signed up just to mention that.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Trademark Infringement
by r_a_trip on Mon 12th Mar 2007 22:45 UTC in reply to "Trademark Infringement"
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

Zeta is Zeta, and Linux is Linux. I can't stand either of them but won't get in the way of the choices they make. I want to focus on seeing Haiku succeed, and that won't happen if people are allowed to get away with ripping it off or trying to hijack it.

Using the Haiku trademark could be a problem, but using code with an "open" license to make a distribution is one of the better qualities of FOSS.

It could be that GNU/Haiku is a monstrosity (I don't think it is, but this aside), but the licensing allows it. If it wasn't the intention of the Haiku project to produce freely usable code, they would have gone proprietary.

Microsoft entered into a licensing agreement with Sun, which prohibited MS to deviate from the Java specs. They deviated anyway and got slapped with a lawsuit. Totally different from Haiku.

There is nothing in the licensing of Haiku that forces developers to use the source code only for addition to Haiku. Maybe it diminishes the "leetness" in the eyes of the purists, but to others it might deliver something of use.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Trademark Infringement
by Vibe on Mon 12th Mar 2007 22:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Trademark Infringement"
Vibe Member since:
2007-03-12

Well, it's like OpenGL and Mesa, or Java and J++. I want to see Haiku remain Haiku, not be tarnished or hijacked. If people want to open or close, strip back or bundle, that's fine. I just have an issue with Haiku as a standard being screwed with. Call your product what you like but not Haiku, unless Haiku allow you on their terms.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Trademark Infringement
by r_a_trip on Mon 12th Mar 2007 23:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Trademark Infringement"
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't really get your drift. Is it the usage of the name or is it the use of the source you object against?

Haiku is not a standard in any way right now. Using the core of Haiku is not screwing the main project in any way. The brain dead addition of GNU/ in front of Haiku makes it absolutely clear this is not the official project. So there is no hijacking or tarnishing taking place.

I can understand it is a little disappointing to see a first Haiku-based distro appear, whipped together by some penguin heads, which in a way will always diminish the impact of the first official Haiku release.

The Haiku team could have avoided this though. They had enough material to release a pre-alpha developer version and truly be first. On the other hand, Haiku wants to reach parity with BeOS and a pre-alpha wouldn't be up to snuff under any condition.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Trademark Infringement
by Vibe on Tue 13th Mar 2007 00:57 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Trademark Infringement"
Vibe Member since:
2007-03-12

Haiku is not a standard in any way right now. Using the core of Haiku is not screwing the main project in any way. The brain dead addition of GNU/ in front of Haiku makes it absolutely clear this is not the official project. So there is no hijacking or tarnishing taking place.

This is simple. Haiku is Haiku. GNU/Haiku, or anything else, like Sun Haiku or Fluffy Bouncy Haiku, hijacks the Haiku trademark and steamrollers over Haiku as a seperate identity. If Zeta want to rip off the source, or the Linux crowd want to mangle it with their agenda, go right ahead. Just don't play funny with Haiku. That's it.

Haiku exists as a standard to itself. I don't want to see that screwed up by people who want to lock it down or mangle it get the upper hand. Stuff that wants to build on Haiku and use its name should do it on Haiku's terms, which might enforce defaults, binary compatibility, and all that jazz. Doing this helps avoid proprietory standards and fragmentation.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Trademark Infringement
by JohnMG on Tue 13th Mar 2007 06:42 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Trademark Infringement"
JohnMG Member since:
2005-07-06

GNU/Haiku, or anything else, like Sun Haiku or Fluffy Bouncy Haiku, hijacks the Haiku trademark and steamrollers over Haiku as a seperate identity.

Vibe, note, the name issue is only a tiny little thing. If there's a problem, the Haiku folks can probably get others to change the name of their "Haiku distribution" (I'm guessing the Haiku foundation or whatever has trademarked the name).

But you mention steamrolling over Haiku's identity... Recall, the code is MIT-licensed. The whole point of Haiku is to be a popular open-source desktop OS. What this means is that as soon as it becomes usable there will be "Haikudos", "Haikoladas", and "Haikarumba XP's" coming out of the woodwork. Some will not be distributing source with them. Some will be charging money for "their OS". That's just part of the deal when you embark on making a popular MIT-/BSD-licensed project. By the Haiku's choice of liberal license, they're saying that they *want* folks to use the OS in this manner.

Haiku exists as a standard to itself. I don't want to see that screwed up by people who want to lock it down or mangle it get the upper hand.

Well, according to the license, users are welcome to lock it down or mangle it in any way they like -- of course, as long as they don't trample on the Haiku trademark (and as long as they keep the copyright notice intact). For the Haiku devs, this isn't a bad thing. They *want* folks using their software in any way they like, in accordance with the very minimal license (that's my understanding anyway).

Reply Score: 5

RE: Trademark Infringement
by helf on Mon 12th Mar 2007 22:49 UTC in reply to "Trademark Infringement"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

Right on, I don't like this at all.

Edited 2007-03-12 22:50

Reply Score: 3

RE: Trademark Infringement
by russa on Tue 13th Mar 2007 08:53 UTC in reply to "Trademark Infringement"
russa Member since:
2007-03-13

This is interesting what are you writing my friend. Do you have a registered trademark in Europe or actually in Poland(development country) and France(hosting). If not I can't see any Trademark infingement my darling.
Besides, who is trying to rip or hijack your work or trademark. Think my friend. This is the way to success. Stop trying to become an Apple, Microsoft or Sun...

Reply Score: 1

AWESOME
by rx182 on Mon 12th Mar 2007 22:59 UTC
rx182
Member since:
2005-07-08

Damn! After trying several builds of Haiku, I didn't expect much from this. I was wrong. Give it a try...

Reply Score: 2

RE: AWESOME
by Luposian on Tue 13th Mar 2007 06:30 UTC in reply to "AWESOME"
Luposian Member since:
2005-07-27

I don't know what is causing it, but once again, I get nothing except the Haiku Boot menu. It says "Boot from CD or Hard Disk", but "Continue Booting" is greyed out! If I click on the "Boot from..." option, all I get is the Haiku option... that would be the Haiku already on my hard drive. Attempting to boot from that point results in an error message and then a blank blue desktop. Wheee!

I am not booting from the CD... I *CAN'T* boot from the CD. I am wasting CD-R's all because someone can't get their blasted act together and create a working Boot CD of Haiku that will work on my system!

Oh, and by the way, ANY revision of Haiku I download from SVN and Jam (compile), boots/works perfectly on my system. So, dun nobody tell me my system is incompatible.

So, one more wasted CD-R. *sigh* Anyone want to help me figure out how to get my copy of "GNU Haiku Ah-choo!" (it's nothing to *sneeze* at... really!) working on my Athlon XP 2000+ system that works *perfectly* with Haiku otherwise?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: AWESOME
by Soulbender on Tue 13th Mar 2007 08:24 UTC in reply to "RE: AWESOME"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"So, one more wasted CD-R. *sigh* "

Ever heard of CD-RW?

Reply Score: 5

Tried it
by zizban on Tue 13th Mar 2007 00:46 UTC
zizban
Member since:
2005-07-06

I have tried it.

Its just OK; its straight Haiku with a few packages from Linux (ncurses, etc). Nothing special. Nothing else included, no firefox, no instant messenger. Nothing.

In short: Nothing to look at.

Reply Score: 4

Trademarks and Copyrights
by mdasen on Tue 13th Mar 2007 07:58 UTC
mdasen
Member since:
2005-07-21

I'm a little saddened that most of the comments seem to be going along this route. After trying it, I was very impressed. I didn't think Haiku was so stable and usable.

Anyway, to the unfortunate topic at hand. Haiku does have a trademark on the Haiku name. They could decide to enforce it or not. It is their choice. Will they? One can't say. Likewise, one is not able to create names off of the word Haiku (such as Haikudos or GNU/Haiku) without a trademark holder's permission. If you don't believe me, try starting Apple Linux and see how quickly you get a letter from a lawyer.

But the Haiku people may see no problem with this GNU/Haiku distribution using their name. They might even like it since it is giving them quite a bit of attention. It has certainally gotten me excited about Haiku again.

As for copyright, that's a different matter entirely. You can have a completely liberal copyright license and have a draconian trademark policy. It usually doesn't happen, but one could. Just because Haiku is MIT licensed doesn't mean that they will allow anyone to use their trademark as well. They might not want users to get confused between their Haiku and this GNU/Haiku. For example, Red Hat is one of the most pro-FLOSS companies out there. Have you heard of CentOS? It's Red Hat Enterprise Linux - a version of it compiled by an outside source to be 100% compatible (and built from Red Hat's sources). But Red Hat would go after them if they used any of the Red Hat trademarks in their system. Likewise, something like Orange Hat wouldn't fly either. Red Hat wants two things here: One, to protect their brand; and Two, to prevent people from thinking that Red Hat supported it (consumer confusion). While CentOS is a great project, it isn't RHEL - it may not have patches in as timely a manner, something might be broken that is fine in RHEL, etc. Now, the CentOS folks are great, but there are crap projects in the world too that you definitely wouldn't want people thinking were your work. Likewise, the Haiku people may not want crap projects using a bit of Haiku code to claim a relationship - not implying that GNU/Haiku is crap (I found it impressive myself).

In the end, I'm really looking forward to 'Poem', the Haiku based operating system with the awesomely non-infringing name that still pays homage to Haiku ;) .

Reply Score: 2

RE: Trademarks and Copyrights
by Brendan on Tue 13th Mar 2007 14:21 UTC in reply to "Trademarks and Copyrights"
Brendan Member since:
2005-11-16

Anyway, to the unfortunate topic at hand. Haiku does have a trademark on the Haiku name. They could decide to enforce it or not. It is their choice. Will they? One can't say. Likewise, one is not able to create names off of the word Haiku (such as Haikudos or GNU/Haiku) without a trademark holder's permission. If you don't believe me, try starting Apple Linux and see how quickly you get a letter from a lawyer.

I may be wrong (I'm not a lawyer), but I have a feeling that if a trademark owner doesn't defend their trademark within a certain time-frame, then that trademark ceases to be a trademark (the trademark owner loses their rights to the trademark).

Reply Score: 1

Come on people...
by mjmoran on Tue 13th Mar 2007 08:22 UTC
mjmoran
Member since:
2005-08-13

I have never seen this board so hostile to a new project. I haven't ran the cd yet( im going to let ftp usage die down some), however, its stupid to kick the project in the teeth on day one.

I find it hypocritical for people to say that GNU/Haiku is theft of the Haiku name, or that it is dirtying Haiku. First, how long did Haiku use the name OpenBeOS? Im pretty sure BeOS was trademarked, and if my memory serves me properly, one reason they changed the name was to avoid trademark problems which could crop up in the future. Secondly, maybe this is a working name, it does fit, Haiku w/ some gnu userland utilities. And BeOS used bash and came with gnu tools. So adding more gnu userland tools doesn't really seem to be a problem.

Secondly, why are people against innovation? Has anyone considered the good that could come out of this project? I can think of several good things that can come out of this project. First, more developers. And thats always good. Secondly, this project, or any which uses the Haiku codebase and shows it to a wider audiance brings the potential to increase awareness of Haiku, and with that comes more apps.

The operating system is really tangental to actually getting work done. Sure some systems are more or less productive, but it really comes down to what apps can run on it. I don't see whats wrong with a full gnu userland w/ the Haiku kernel. I didn't see this complaining when people were strapping BeOS kits and api's to a linux system, ala Cosmoe or BlueEyedOS.

Basically, everyone needs to relax. The alternate OS crowd is small enough as it is, there is no reason for infighting. Anything with uses the code is good for everyone. It makes little sense to throw a fit at an OSS project that is just starting.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Come on people...
by Jack Burton on Tue 13th Mar 2007 09:35 UTC in reply to "Come on people..."
Jack Burton Member since:
2005-07-06

"I don't see whats wrong with a full gnu userland w/ the Haiku kernel"

Note that this distro is not a full gnu userland with the haiku kernel.
Haiku isn't a kernel. It's a full featured OS, that's why distros aren't absolutely needed, unlike in the linux world.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Come on people...
by jonas.kirilla on Tue 13th Mar 2007 10:19 UTC in reply to "Come on people..."
jonas.kirilla Member since:
2005-07-11

*We* are complaining because it's *our* toes he's stepping on. If you don't feel anything it's because he's not stepping on yours. Does the fact that you feel nothing negate our feeling of hurt?

(I don't want to overstate this feeling, we risk loosing face, but I think it's clear that Pingwinek struck a disharmonic chord with the BeOS/Zeta/Haiku community.)

The "GNU/" naming error, the Penguin-theme, and the premature Haiku distromaking are clear indicators, to me, that the maker of "GNU/Haiku" is not part of the BeOS/Zeta/Haiku community and doesn't understand our feelings on these "soft" issues.

FWIW, I have given at least some constructive criticism. I've suggested two alternative names, Laika and Haidi, in this thread:
http://haiku-os.org/community/forum/pingwinek_gnu_haiku_haiku_distr...

It's fine if you want to put all of GNU on top of Haiku's kernel. We (post-BeOS people, etc) prefer to keep the GPL parts as few as possible. Many of us would stay away from a GPL:ized Haiku and would cringe if a -true- GNU/Haiku was created. One with all of GNU and the X window system, and without the BeOS APIs and daemons.

Haiku isn't a "Darwin". It's a full "MacOS X", which includes a lot of open-source software, but the whole is so much more.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Come on people...
by mjmoran on Tue 13th Mar 2007 13:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Come on people..."
mjmoran Member since:
2005-08-13

Why have it open source then? If the concern is people rolling their own then close the source down and do it internally. And I would care to imagine that not all post-BeOS people are so repelled by the gpl, im not. It did power a good deal of BeOS's command line.

"Does the fact that you feel nothing negate our feeling of hurt? "
What hurt? Someone was well within his rights to create something, and he did. Why not imbrace the fact people are doing what they should with open source, tinkering, creating, changing. And I don't feel nothing, im excited. The more usage the better. The more tinkering the better. I would like a day when I can run Haiku w/ and run my linux apps side by side. Nothing is wrong with that. The design of BeOS is unsurpassed, and if the Haiku project can duplicate and improve on it, then there is nothing but good things that can come from it.

Personally for me, whereas I loved BeOS, I never really liked most of the apps. A lot of things were shareware and such, some good open source, but not enough. NIH(not invented here) syndrome won't help Haiku gain acceptance in the market.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Come on people...
by jonas.kirilla on Tue 13th Mar 2007 15:16 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Come on people..."
jonas.kirilla Member since:
2005-07-11

I don't mind anyone using the Haiku -source-. I don't mind if companies "steal" it and never give anything back, the source is still right here with the same license as ever. I also don't mind too much if people make bad derivates as long as it doesn't make us look bad too. In the end it's the people who work the hardest who get to decide what the future holds. That's usually the coders and not the distro makers. Anyone can make a distro.

The open-source freedom doesn't take away my right to have an opinion about the derivates, and Pingwinek's GNU/Haiku is the first, or the second, if you count Cosmoe's use of parts of Haiku.

Making a penguin-distro out of Haiku is pure debasing, confusing and right now very much premature. Just because it's allowed doesn't make it a good idea.

Big applications designed for multiple platforms is one thing, but adding the necessary system glue to make all of the popular Linux applications run on Haiku would be like trying to fit the Eiffel Tower on top of the Statue of Liberty. It would be one big mess. Sometimes less is more.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Come on people...
by tonestone57 on Tue 13th Mar 2007 16:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Come on people..."
tonestone57 Member since:
2005-12-31

Open Sourcing the OS is for a reason, to help it get finished quicker. Look at Linux & the success it has had because it is an open source project. Close source would mean slower development (& fewer developers/contributors).

The source is there & people are free to make their own distro. I have no issue with that, but there should be a few guidelines.


What bothers me:
1. Uses Penguin background. I always associate this with Linux distros. So, this had me confused. Needs something that is not a Penguin (or bird). A Tree would go good with Haiku.
2. Should state ALPHA CODE on the background so people know it isn't stable.
3. Using GNU/Haiku in the name. You don't see Linux distros doing this. Linux distros all have unique names (ie: Arch, Mandriva, Suse, Ubuntu, etc.). Haiku should be used to refer to or define the OS type (ie: another Haiku distro; just like Linux is used to say Debian is another Linux distro). What happens if you have 50 distros with Haiku somewhere in the name? (ie: Haiku XXXXX OR XXXXX Haiku). It would be confusing. Keeping the name unique is important.

In summary, when making a Haiku distro, 1. The message should be clear that Haiku is not Linux (different OSes) - do not use any symbols or graphics associated with Linux, 2. The distro is based off Alpha (Beta, or R1) Haiku code & 3. Not confuse the user by using Haiku in the name (too many distros with the name Haiku in it would confuse me).

Edited 2007-03-13 16:54

Reply Score: 1

hmm...
by makc on Tue 13th Mar 2007 09:25 UTC
makc
Member since:
2006-01-11

I'm not sure it's so good, given the alpha state of the foundations. I *really* hope it won't burst the appeareance of the 'real' Haiku.

Reply Score: 1

Oh please no...
by testadura on Tue 13th Mar 2007 11:10 UTC
testadura
Member since:
2006-04-14

Not the 1.000.000 million different distributions horror.
No applications which require package Y from distro X.
No binary incompatibility.
Not too much choice, since choice is a pain.

Haiku is better of in ONE flavor, I think. Ensuring it runs all software that is R5 compatible (at least for R1)

If you want to reinvent the wheel and make yet another Linux like distro, don't associate it with Haiku/Beos. The difference between Haiku and Linux is huge and I don't want to see both worlds merge.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Oh please no...
by deb2006 on Tue 13th Mar 2007 11:15 UTC in reply to "Oh please no..."
deb2006 Member since:
2006-06-26

GNU software doesn't change Haiku one bit. Even BeOS uses bash, groff, ls etc. Without it you wouldn't have a commandline in BeOS ...

Reply Score: 1

Why not?
by deb2006 on Tue 13th Mar 2007 11:13 UTC
deb2006
Member since:
2006-06-26

People need to be able to play with Haiku. I mean it's nice to see all this progress being shown on the Haiku website, but that's not a substitute for a real piece of working software.

BTW: That's not 1.0 - it's 0.1.

Edited 2007-03-13 11:15

Reply Score: 2

RE: Why not?
by flywheel on Tue 13th Mar 2007 12:54 UTC in reply to "Why not?"
flywheel Member since:
2005-12-28

@deb2006 Actually you are able to download testimages from haiku-os - so you are actually able to play with Haiku.

Reply Score: 2

Is this an attempt on Haikus Life?
by Haicube on Tue 13th Mar 2007 12:21 UTC
Haicube
Member since:
2005-08-06

This is amazing. First of all Haiku don't wanna publish anything yet due to the fact that code is Alpha quality so far. Second of all, Haiku has put everything under MIT license not to get into forkh*ll.

What happens then, some GNU zealot picks up alpha quality code and puts something sleazy together, launches it and tries to get some cred or something.

This was one of those things that was separating Haiku/BeOS from the Linux camp. Alpha quality isn't ready for release, don't you get it!!!

Not to mention the name. Why would anyone wanna confuse GNU with Haiku if not in pure illwill.

I hope this simply is a bad joke!

Reply Score: 5

Flame war
by russa on Tue 13th Mar 2007 12:39 UTC
russa
Member since:
2007-03-13

Are you guys truing to start a flame war? Gimme a break. If you don't want to share you work change license otherwise give the guy a break. Does he violate any license (apart form trademark which I doubt is valid in Europe?). Are you guys abash your work? If so don't release anything until you decide that it reach the level you are satisfied with. Don't blame him to make the OS more popular.
I think it's all about your EGO

Reply Score: 0

RE: Flame war
by makc on Tue 13th Mar 2007 16:26 UTC in reply to "Flame war"
makc Member since:
2006-01-11

no licence break. phylosophy break, yes.
and as code is alpha quality, it might actually damage the popularity: all the people interested in it will take a look and say 'it's not working' - while it's not working *yet*.

about philosophy break, i think most beos people will agrre on "if you want unix, go unix". hiaku/beos has a completely different approach to the system. clean, simple, efective if you like it. otherwise please don't mess it with random config dirs eg (happening already for zeta)

Reply Score: 2

Re: Flame war
by anevilyak on Tue 13th Mar 2007 14:08 UTC
anevilyak
Member since:
2005-09-14

Ego has nothing to do with it. What he's doing may not be a violation of the letter of the license, but it's certainly a violation of the spirit of the project. If you don't see this as a problem, then by your own logic the Linux camp has no room to complain about Tivo either. What they did with Linux is perfectly within the letter of the law as far as the GPL was concerned, but it's certainly not in line with the intent. Same case here (imo).

Edited 2007-03-13 14:14

Reply Score: 2

RE: Re: Flame war
by russa on Tue 13th Mar 2007 15:40 UTC in reply to "Re: Flame war"
russa Member since:
2007-03-13

Come on man. What are you talking about. Spirit of the project. Isn't Haiku a rip-off of the BeOS? Someone is trying to bring Haiku to wider community and you are all trying to blame him. Shame on you. Tivo is a different story. Pingwinek is not a commercial product.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Re: Flame war
by anevilyak on Tue 13th Mar 2007 16:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Re: Flame war"
anevilyak Member since:
2005-09-14

Whether it's commercial or not is irrelevant. As for trying to bring it to a wider community, it's not even remotely ready for that, it is *alpha*. You can do more harm than good by bringing stuff out early by virtue of people trying it, finding it to be unusable because it's not done, and thus marking the project as crappy and uninteresting. Rip-off is also very much a mischaracterization since the commercial incarnation of BeOS 5 is dead.

Reply Score: 3

Haiku
by fretinator on Tue 13th Mar 2007 14:27 UTC
fretinator
Member since:
2005-07-06

Haiku's not Linux
Nothing Gnu under the sun
No distro for me

Reply Score: 5

RE[5]: Trademark Infringement
by mikesum32 on Tue 13th Mar 2007 16:28 UTC
mikesum32
Member since:
2005-10-22

*cough*

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=jpej53.2.28

Don't forget Haiku Software.

Reply Score: 1

konrad
Member since:
2006-01-06

Maybe its time to put up an real Hauiku distro then? Even if its alpha quality. No matter if you people like it or not we who's watching from the outside wants to try it. May it be a wmware image or may it be a distro from a linux guy.

Reply Score: 1

Mage66 Member since:
2005-07-11

@konrad:

You can already download daily snapshots of Haiku in progress as VMWare Player Images directly from the Haiku-OS website.

I download them a couple times a month to see how the work is going.

And it's going quite well. But, it's not ready for "Primetime" yet.

Reply Score: 1

Vibe Member since:
2007-03-12

But, it's not ready for "Primetime" yet.

Developers and propellor heads might find it interesting but the end user wants stuff to work and doesn't want to be insulted with a "submit a patch" type of remark. They'll just say to themselves "Ooh, pain!" and walk away.

The other angle is cost. Haiku is as free as it gets while aiming for a world class design. It's leveraging all the work Be did in creating BeOS, and future revs look like they'll fold in stuff to bring it up to par with OS X and Windows.

My personal position is that Linux, and Windows and OS X have their angles, and Haiku treads a middle way between the two. I'm happy with that. Adding Linux GNU and community cruft or commercial profiteering just gets in the way. Bugger off.

Reply Score: 1

penguin background
by Calipso on Tue 13th Mar 2007 19:19 UTC
Calipso
Member since:
2007-03-13

Uses Penguin background. I always associate this with Linux distros. So, this had me confused. Needs something that is not a Penguin (or bird). A Tree would go good with Haiku.

The reason they use a penguin is that Pingwinek means Penguin in Polish.

Reply Score: 1

RE: penguin background
by tonestone57 on Tue 13th Mar 2007 20:00 UTC in reply to "penguin background"
tonestone57 Member since:
2005-12-31

Ok, I get that, but still ...

So, translating the name into English means "Penguin GNU/Haiku"

I wonder where he came up with that name?? Let's see, Penguin from Linux mascot/logo, GNU from GNU software & Haiku from Haiku OS.

If you ask me not very original (or creative) is it? Basically taking 3 seperate names & merging them together.

Ok, I'll leave it at that. I know others don't like the name or logo either.

The distro name & Penguin logo really turned me off (& it bothered me too). I felt like he was trying to turn Haiku into a Linux distro. Both are great OSes, but different in their own ways.

Reply Score: 1

RE: penguin background
by nmalth on Tue 13th Mar 2007 20:06 UTC in reply to "penguin background"
nmalth Member since:
2007-03-12

Yes, but the reason he's using a penguin theme in the first place is that he obviously started his "brand" with a Linux distro. Now, he's added a Haiku-based live cd as a separate product but kept the same penguin-flavoured branding.

One of Haiku's most persistent difficulties will be persuading people that it's not Just Another Linux; he's making that task that much harder.

Reply Score: 4

uhm, how do I burn these files?
by deb2006 on Tue 13th Mar 2007 21:28 UTC
deb2006
Member since:
2006-06-26

Can anyone explain how to burn these files under Linux?

Reply Score: 1

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Can anyone explain how to burn these files under Linux?

Another shining example of why Haiku hasn't officially released a LiveCD yet. The intention is to eventually create a LiveCD with a single UDF image rather than a two-track disc (floppy image and separate BFS image) with a .cue file.

Reply Score: 3

theuserbl
Member since:
2006-01-10

Nice.
I like Linux and I like Haiku.
It is nice to see, that there existing now a Distribution of Haiku with installed programs.

But I also like ReactOS.
Would be nice, if there comes next a Pingwinek GNU/ReactOS distribution.
Best with Live-CD, to not install it direct on real hardware.
Or as QEMU-image, where already a lot of programs are installed.
The normal ReactOS from the ReactOS-side is also a poor OS, without external programs. There existing a ReactOS-downloadmanager, but thats it.

Reply Score: 1