Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 7th Sep 2010 18:11 UTC
Internet Explorer We already know quite a few details about Internet Explorer 9, Microsoft's upcoming attempt to retain - or grow - its market share in the browser world. Standards and speed are the main focus of IE9, and if a video of the upcoming beta release is anything to go by, they're doing pretty well. Just... Did they just manage to make the interface even less appealing?
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User interface changed?
by Almafeta on Tue 7th Sep 2010 18:25 UTC
Almafeta
Member since:
2007-02-22

How can it be any "less" appealing when it doesn't look at all different from IE8? For once, I'd be glad to have a Microsoft product undergo a major upgrade without having to completely relearn its interface.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by Zkal
by Zkal on Tue 7th Sep 2010 18:34 UTC
Zkal
Member since:
2009-09-18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4P0qiRL_wI

Just dropping this here, a youtube video of IE9 with the IE8 interface. Right performance and scores by the engine, GUI is just the old one so someone likes to make fakes in youtube at least ;)

Reply Score: 2

I think it's fake
by pysiak on Tue 7th Sep 2010 19:04 UTC
pysiak
Member since:
2008-01-01

I think it's fake because you can get the IE rendering engine and make a mockup of IE.

Note, the demo does not use tabs. I bet it's just a window with embedded IE object with a skin from IE8, hence no tabs, no nothing.

We used to make IE clones at the first year of C# programming, the same way people started doing all the videoplayers with subtitles, etc...

Reply Score: 1

I think it's real
by RichterKuato on Tue 7th Sep 2010 20:31 UTC in reply to "I think it's fake"
RichterKuato Member since:
2010-05-14

That video isn't the only leak of the new interface you know, look:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/is-this-microsofts-new-internet...

It was spotted on some official Russian Microsoft blog a while back (Aug 25). It looks exactly like that the one in the video. It spread around fast before they took down the post and yes everyone was talking about has badly tight the tabs were too.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Tue 7th Sep 2010 19:12 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

It’s not fake—but it is beta.

I think Microsoft have been experimenting with saving vertical space, betting on that fact that the average screen is now quite wide, and [because Windows’ window management is so bad] the browser is always maximised.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Comment by Kroc
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 7th Sep 2010 19:17 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

It’s not fake—but it is beta.

I think Microsoft have been experimenting with saving vertical space, betting on that fact that the average screen is now quite wide, and [because Windows’ window management is so bad] the browser is always maximised.



Uhm, you do realise it is PEOPLE who maximise, right? Why on EARTH would Windows' window management have anything to do with it? Put any random Windows user in front of any UI and they will maximise.

Reply Score: 2

v RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Tue 7th Sep 2010 19:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by ssokolow on Tue 7th Sep 2010 19:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
ssokolow Member since:
2010-01-21

Matter of taste does also factor into it. I'm very easily distracted, so I use a mix of fullscreening and tiling rather than Exposé-style helter-skelter stacking.

In fact, to ensure I always can, I wrote a simple X11 equivalent to WinSplit Revolution. (Though it's been sitting at "usable but not finished" for months now while I work on other projects)

If I can ever find the time to make them behave more like GTK/Qt than Motif, I plan to switch to a full tiling WM like AwesomeWM or XMonad.

Edited 2010-09-07 19:48 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 7th Sep 2010 20:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

What does the lack of Expose have to do with maximising? People maximise because it's a habit and because many (I actually checked this) find non-maximised windows distracting. It has NOTHING to do with how window manages windows.

If it did, it doesn't explain why people who switch to a Mac STILL maximise their windows - and this time manually, because OS X lacks a maximise button due to thick-headedness.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by modmans2ndcoming on Tue 7th Sep 2010 21:17 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

Apple's maximize makes sense in an MDI though. if you expect multiple documents to be present on the screen, then a maximize button that maximizes to the content rather than the screen is completely with in the realm of sense.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by Neolander on Tue 7th Sep 2010 20:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Because in Windows, without Exposé, the simplest solution is to just maximise everything and use the taskbar / alt-tab. But in OS X I never maximise anything, my browser stays at 1024x768 and I move it around the screen. I have no need to maximise it.

There’s just something wrong with seeing a 23" PC screen with IE maximised over the whole thing, the web page sitting in the middle with a vast sea of emptiness either side. I can’t explain exactly how, but Windows just breeds this behaviour where as OS X doesn’t (probably because OS X’s maximise button is completely broken).

I think you just answered your own question, as Thom pointed out too. It's just too much of a hurdle to maximize a window on OSX, so people just get used to life without it.

As to why people like to maximize windows, I bet this has something to do with the need for a deeper web browsing experience (leave the computer and its problems and enter the web) and some concentration issues too. A computer desktop is now much more visually complex than the usual webpage background, since the web moved from the Geocities state to something which is much more usable.

Though you're right, a full-screened web browser on a widescreen monitor is just ridiculous, and can even damage usability when the page is not properly coded.

Edited 2010-09-07 20:19 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by modmans2ndcoming on Tue 7th Sep 2010 21:21 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

that is why Windows 7 has edgeification for window sizing now.... Drag to the top, maximize, drag window to the size, half the screen tiled, Grab the bottom edge of the window and drag to the bottom, it maxes height and keeps the width setting.

I hate going to work on XP now.. I keep wanting to drag a window out of the way or maximize it or tile it with a drag.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by cfrankb on Wed 8th Sep 2010 02:24 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
cfrankb Member since:
2006-01-03
RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by flynn on Tue 7th Sep 2010 20:16 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
flynn Member since:
2009-03-19

I maximize my browser windows, because there is no reason not to.

When reading an article or a thread in a forum I don't actually need to see anything else on my screen besides the page itself. If I didn't keep my browser maximized, then all the space wasted by whitespace on the page would just be equally wasted by my wallpaper.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by WereCatf on Tue 7th Sep 2010 22:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

I maximize my browser windows, because there is no reason not to.

When reading an article or a thread in a forum I don't actually need to see anything else on my screen besides the page itself. If I didn't keep my browser maximized, then all the space wasted by whitespace on the page would just be equally wasted by my wallpaper.


This is mostly the same reason why I maximize them: there is nothing on my desktop that I need to be able to see all the time so I can just as well have the window cover it all and use the space for viewing a webpage instead. There's plenty of pages I view that work fine both on wide browser windows and narrow ones, and I prefer to see it all at once rather than having to scroll up and down.

It's just plain arrogant to claim that only stupid users maximize their windows or that it's because of the window manager's capabilities (or the lack of them.)

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by AmigaRobbo on Tue 7th Sep 2010 20:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
AmigaRobbo Member since:
2005-11-15

Not everyone has 23" monitors you know.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by Neolander on Tue 7th Sep 2010 20:20 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Not everyone has 23" monitors you know.

Good point. Especially as laptops and netbooks get more and more popular...

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by Almafeta on Tue 7th Sep 2010 20:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
Almafeta Member since:
2007-02-22

There’s just something wrong with seeing a 23" PC screen with IE maximised over the whole thing, the web page sitting in the middle with a vast sea of emptiness either side.


How is the maximize button to blame for terrible webpage coding?

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by Neolander on Tue 7th Sep 2010 20:37 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

How is the maximize button to blame for terrible webpage coding?

Actually, believe it or not, this is a good webpage coding practice. Very wide webpages are harder to read for a long time, because you (unconsciously) have to move your eyes more and hence more eyestrain occurs. Therefore, every website with large text content and designed with widescreen in minds should have a reasonable maximum width in milimeters/inches set in its CSSs.

Edited 2010-09-07 20:44 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by Dave_K on Wed 8th Sep 2010 14:24 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

Actually, believe it or not, this is a good webpage coding practice. Very wide webpages are harder to read for a long time, because you (unconsciously) have to move your eyes more and hence more eyestrain occurs.


Agreed. There's a reason that newspapers are split into columns, rather than spreading the text all the way across the page.

I'll often reduce the width of the browser display when a page is horizontally filled with text. Even on a modestly sized widescreen I'd rather have a narrower column of text for comfortable reading.

This is one of the main reasons why I use Opera: it allows me to tile tabs side by side within the browser window, while the main browser window itself remains maximised.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by nt_jerkface on Wed 8th Sep 2010 01:23 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

It isn't terrible web page coding, it has more to do with economics.

Ultra wide resolutions are routinely ignored just like IE6 because they are such a small percentage of visitors.
http://gs.statcounter.com/#resolution-na-monthly-200908-201008

Yes I know about relative widths but that won't help fixed content like image files. Even if all images were vector files you would still have all sorts of optimization issues.

Webpages are built around 14-17 inch screens. That's just the reality of the situation and it won't be changing anytime soon. As laptops continue to be favored over desktops the situation will likely get worse. I hate browsing on ultra-wide monitors for this very reason.

I have actually found that I am more productive on a smaller monitor due to less eye strain from the reduced amount of glare. If I work all day on a 23" monitor my eyeballs feel like they sat through a dozen movies.

Edited 2010-09-08 01:28 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Dave_K on Wed 8th Sep 2010 14:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

Put any random Windows user in front of any UI and they will maximise.


In my opinion a big part of the reason for this is that the Windows UI strongly encourages maximisation of windows. It's how Windows users learn to use the GUI, but that doesn't mean it's a particularly efficient way of doing things.

I never used to maximise windows when using RISC OS, or other GUIs with similar window management and application design. Back then I normally overlapped windows and dragged and dropped between apps; usage made easy and efficient by those interfaces.

It's only when using Windows, with its MDI apps, primitive window management, and massive toolbars/sidebars/panels attached to application windows, that I started feeling the need to maximise everything and alt+tab between windows.

Reply Score: 2

Iâll all for the more Spartan toolbars...
by Bink on Tue 7th Sep 2010 19:17 UTC
Bink
Member since:
2006-02-19

I’m all for the more Spartan toolbars—I find it a lot cleaner and important in the new world order of widescreen displays—but I agree that’s not enough space for tabs. Hopefully we’ll have the ability to have a second toolbar that can contain nothing but tabs.

Edited 2010-09-07 19:18 UTC

Reply Score: 1

I don't know why but...
by Tuishimi on Wed 8th Sep 2010 00:33 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

This made me smile.

If you open boatloads of windows in Chrome, the tabs become ever smaller and less readable, until you're finally just staring at a white mountain range

Reply Score: 2

New IE
by OSGuy on Wed 8th Sep 2010 10:00 UTC
OSGuy
Member since:
2006-01-01

If that is the new IE GUI then MS has scored a new low. Tab bar and address bar on the same toolbar? What were they thinking? Ever since IE6, MS has stuffed up IE's GUI especially the Favorites bar. Based on my own experience, from the Favorites menu, you can no longer manage the Favorites via drag and drop without closing the Favorites menu first. With IE 6.0, you can right click on a Favorite and select delete, a dialog pops up, you respond and the Favorite's menu remains open. With IE 7 and 8, everytime you want to delete a Favorite, you have to reselect the menu...It's such a pain.

Edited 2010-09-08 10:02 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: New IE
by Neolander on Wed 8th Sep 2010 13:46 UTC in reply to "New IE"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Well, if IE's UI dissatisfies you but you want to keep website compatibility, you might want to try alternative user interfaces for its web engine, like Maxthon or Avant Browser...

Reply Score: 2

Comment by AnythingButVista
by AnythingButVista on Thu 9th Sep 2010 04:04 UTC
AnythingButVista
Member since:
2008-08-27

I don't have complaints of IE9's UI... unless I press the ALT key and a fricking ribbon pops up instead of usable, readable menus.

Reply Score: 1