Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 12th Sep 2010 11:34 UTC
Apple The iPhone jailbreak community is on a roll lately. Not only did the US Library of Congress do the right thing by adding the jailbreaking DMCA exemption, the two major jailbreak application stores - Rock and Cydia - will merge into one. Cydia will acquire Rock, an all Rock applications will be moved into Cydia. There's also some impressive statistics in here that indicate just how popular jailbreaking really is.
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Are those the only third party app stores?
by kragil on Sun 12th Sep 2010 11:53 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

I don't have an Iphone (I don't hate freedom), but I heard that there are app stores that just mirror all the stuff from the offical app store and offer it for free, is that true?

Reply Score: 2

Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06

No. The stores do charge for the apps.

The 'trouble' is that many people jailbreak so they dont Have to pay for the apps.

Reply Score: 1

Elv13 Member since:
2006-06-12

This is an other app store, or a frontend to rapidshare, in fact, but it have nothing to do with Cydia/Rock. Those are mostly store for emulators, applications rejected from the app store, using interpreted code or using hidden APIs. The free content is mostly customisation apps, ringtone and artwork.

The other "store" have only one advantages, if an app is not available in your country, like last.fm or Pandora, you can get it from there. Those are free apps anyway and sometime, the services themselves are available, but not the app (like Last.FM in Canada). The rest is just piracy and probably viruses. I prefer to buy my apps, the upgrade is simpler and safer.

Reply Score: 3

galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

Contrary to the other replies you have gotten... There is an application called "Installous" that can be installed through Cydia/Rock that does more or less exactly what you say. It isn't a complete mirror of the official app store, but it generally does contain the newer and more popular apps (usually about 500 or so). They are all pre-cracked and generally work fine (not always but usually), and they are available at no charge. Not that Im promoting it or anything, but facts are facts.

Reply Score: 5

Elv13 Member since:
2006-06-12

First, the apps is not available in Cydia/Rock, but using an apt-get repository not included by default. As the Cydia store is open, then adding repositories is as common as in Linux, but Cydia blacklist the repository and show a message asking you to give up, even if the "just go ahead" button is available.

Second, I don't think this site support such software. I have ommited to say the name of the application for this reason.

Reply Score: 2

galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

First, the apps is not available in Cydia/Rock, but using an apt-get repository not included by default. As the Cydia store is open, then adding repositories is as common as in Linux, but Cydia blacklist the repository and show a message asking you to give up, even if the "just go ahead" button is available.


I didn't say it was available, I said it could be installed using cydia/rock, and it can be.

Second, I don't think this site support such software. I have ommited to say the name of the application for this reason.


Fine. I don't see the problem with saying it's name, but whatever. My reason for posting was to simply answer the question that was asked in an honest fashion, as the previous replies were less than accurate...

Reply Score: 2

competition
by ARUmar on Sun 12th Sep 2010 13:44 UTC
ARUmar
Member since:
2009-10-08

it tends to keep the producers in check and curb their nastier tendancies.id take a wait and see approach to how the new beast will behave

Reply Score: 1

DMCA exemption?
by bornagainenguin on Sun 12th Sep 2010 13:46 UTC
bornagainenguin
Member since:
2005-08-07

What good is it if the EULA prohibits any jailbreaking or other unauthorized use of the product? Seems to me the horse is already out of the barn...

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Score: 5

RE: DMCA exemption?
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 12th Sep 2010 14:18 UTC in reply to "DMCA exemption?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

What good is it if the EULA prohibits any jailbreaking or other unauthorized use of the product? Seems to me the horse is already out of the barn...


Luckily, most iPhone owners are not American ;) .

Reply Score: 3

RE: DMCA exemption?
by Soulbender on Mon 13th Sep 2010 05:57 UTC in reply to "DMCA exemption?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Because the EULA can not forbid something granted to me by copyright law?

Reply Score: 3

Well...
by Neolander on Sun 12th Sep 2010 14:00 UTC
Neolander
Member since:
2010-03-08

Let's see what the guys who previously told us that jailbreaking was exclusively done for pirating applications have to comment on this.

*takes a bag of chips*

Edited 2010-09-12 14:01 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: Well...
by Kroc on Sun 12th Sep 2010 14:26 UTC in reply to "Well..."
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

A side effect of jailbreaking is always piracy, that is unavoidable. Any extra freedom begats abuses of that freedom--it does not however, mean that the bad outweighs the good.

When the VCR was invented, what did the industry cry? Piracy! Of course. And indeed, VHS piracy was rife, but out of that came THE ENTIRE HOME MOVIE MARKET. Which makes more than the cinemas. If the MPAA had won the case against Sony in the ’80s, then the MPAA would be out of pocket to the tune of a few trillion bucks, not least the growth the whole media market has seen (big TVs, sound systems) because of the invention of the home theatre market.

Apple’s restrictions are no less as narrowminded as the MPAA in the ’80s. What limits they put in place with the iPhone only prevents the market opening and creating new massively bigger revenue pools.

Reply Score: 10

RE[2]: Well...
by Tony Swash on Sun 12th Sep 2010 18:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Well..."
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

Apple’s restrictions are no less as narrowminded as the MPAA in the ’80s. What limits they put in place with the iPhone only prevents the market opening and creating new massively bigger revenue pools.


Have you seen the stats for the App store?

The number of apps (250,000)

The number of downloads (currently 18 million app downloads per day)

The amount of money being generated for developers ($1 Billion plus).

All three metrics are continuing to grow strongly.

That looks pretty massive to me.

The App Store success has many components but two that are very important hinge upon the fact that it is curated.

First app developers see much reduced piracy.

Second (really important) app purchasers feel safe buying and installing App store apps.

Neither of these factors are insignificant.

If the App Store had not been invented, if the iOS app market was "open" like the Android market you would see the same phenomena as in the Android market such as poor returns for developers, lots of craplets, poor unstable code, malicious code, pirated contents, privacy invasions and a much slower rate of app development. In short a shitty end user experience.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Well...
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 12th Sep 2010 18:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Well..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

If the App Store had not been invented


Apple did not invent anything. The App Store is a software repository with an automatic updating mechanism. This concept is as old as time itself. dpkg was created in 1993, for instance.

Please stop spreading the nonsense that Apple invented the App Store concept. It's just a package management system; nothing more, nothing less. I was running package management systems on my mobile devices when Apple was still busy with trying not to die.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Well...
by koki on Sun 12th Sep 2010 20:10 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Well..."
koki Member since:
2005-10-17

The enabling technologies may have been there long ago. The app store concept may not be their invention (perhaps in the same way that they did not invent the GUI that made the Mac so successful). But that does not change the fact that Apple's app store is the first commercially viable implementation of an online app store that targets consumers, and a very successful one at that too.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Well...
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 12th Sep 2010 20:12 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Well..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

The enabling technologies may have been there long ago. The app store concept may not be their invention (perhaps in the same way that they did not invent the GUI that made the Mac so successful). But that does not change the fact that Apple's app store is the first commercially viable implementation of an online app store that targets consumers, and a very successful one at that too.


There's a world of difference between "successfully implemented for the first time" and "invented".

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Well...
by koki on Sun 12th Sep 2010 23:42 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Well..."
koki Member since:
2005-10-17

There's a world of difference between "successfully implemented for the first time" and "invented".


Tony Swash does not seem to be making the assertion that Apple invented the idea of app stores, but that their model, which is of Apple's makings, results in a better return for developers as well better value and user experience for end users. In such a context, his "If the App Store had not been invented..." sentence is semantically acceptable.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Well...
by Tony Swash on Sun 12th Sep 2010 21:26 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Well..."
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

Please stop spreading the nonsense that Apple invented the App Store concept. It's just a package management system; nothing more, nothing less. I was running package management systems on my mobile devices when Apple was still busy with trying not to die.


Yeah the world was littered with App Stores and everybody was busy using them to download apps to their phones and then - dang - along came Apple and copied other people's stuff again and made it into a gigantic success. Why do Apple keep doing that? Its really, really irritating.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Well...
by Moredhas on Sun 12th Sep 2010 22:45 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Well..."
Moredhas Member since:
2008-04-10

The same way Sony have an uncanny knack for ruining perfectly good ideas, Apple have a knack for pollishing already founded concepts. Usually in the marketing phase. The mac wasn't the first computer with a GUI, but they made the idea accessible. The iPod wasn't the first portable digital audio player, but they made it seem cool rather than functional and geeky. The iPhone wasn't the first smartphone, though you'd think it was by the way people rave, Apple took existing ideas, tacked on a fairly slick interface (though not the most ergonomic) and marketed it well. The iPad, giant iPod touch, great marketing, but nowhere near the functionality of, say, Toshiba's tablet notebooks of a few years back.

Apple have probably never done anything new, they just have an expert marketing team. If I had a crazy new idea that just might take off, I'd make a nerdy, functional implementation, then sell it to Apple for some kind of royalty arrangement. As much as I despise their closed policies, I have to admire that marketing power, and the overall finish of their products.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Well...
by SuperDaveOsbourne on Tue 14th Sep 2010 03:25 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Well..."
SuperDaveOsbourne Member since:
2007-06-24

Maybe it would be better stated that Apple decided to strongly market and regulate/control the software repository model of distribution. Thom, please name some of the mobile/small devices you were using package management systems on in the mid/late 90s, and their package management tools.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Well...
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 14th Sep 2010 11:56 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Well..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Thom, please name some of the mobile/small devices you were using package management systems on in the mid/late 90s, and their package management tools.


I ran Linux on PDAs, mostly Debian-based. Do the math.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Well...
by SuperDaveOsbourne on Wed 15th Sep 2010 07:06 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Well..."
SuperDaveOsbourne Member since:
2007-06-24

How about a name or two of the devices you ran package management on PDAs, and the versions of software. Help us less informed and enlightened.

Reply Score: 1

Ug... Rock is so much better
by mattmc3 on Sun 12th Sep 2010 20:10 UTC
mattmc3
Member since:
2010-09-12

Now that the 3G is 2 years old, most people are up for contract renewal, so I was finally able to pick one up on my terms (no contract, no AT&T) from someone who re-upped to the iPhone 4.0. After jailbreaking and unlocking, the first and only thing to use Cydia for is to download Rock. Cydia is a steaming pile of slowness and frustration. I'd be a lot happier if Rock had gotten Cydia instead of the other way around. Not sure what the plans are - it could range from killing Rock completely to rebranding Rock as Cydia... likely somewhere in between. But if Cydia bought Rock to kill it, this is going to suck for a whole new generation of 3G jailbreakers who were only just getting started.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Ug... Rock is so much better
by Stratoukos on Sun 12th Sep 2010 20:40 UTC in reply to "Ug... Rock is so much better"
Stratoukos Member since:
2009-02-11

According to Saurik, Cydia's main developer:

Unfortunately, Rock's speed came from taking a few incorrect/dangerous shortcuts, which precipitated the event that really forced us where we are now: an "essential upgrade" that was required for the Spirit jailbreak, which, when installed by Rock Your Phone, forced everyone to restore their devices and start over

My experience with Rock agrees with the above. I was using Rock for about 5 months and it messed with my device twice.

The first one was when it crashed in the middle of an essential update and made my phone unusable without a restore (not sure if it's the same Saurik is talking about).

The second time, it kept writing on a file with no reason indefinitely, even when running on the background. This made my battery last for about 3 hours on idle and made the device overheating. The fix required the user to know how to use SSH/Bash, so less technically inclined people were probably screwed.

Of course I dumped Rock after these and never had a problem with Cydia.

Reply Score: 2

Moredhas Member since:
2008-04-10

Saurik's newspost on the issue, you may have seen, explains they've decided to go this way because Rock, while faster, apparently used some dangerous shortcuts, which could account for your crashes. I don't claim to be familiar with the internals of iDevice software, so I don't know what shortcuts Rock used, or how they were dangerous, but I figure if they've agreed on this, then there must be some element of truth to it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Ug... Rock is so much better
by kvdman on Mon 13th Sep 2010 04:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Ug... Rock is so much better"
kvdman Member since:
2006-04-28

The second time, it kept writing on a file with no reason indefinitely, even when running on the background. This made my battery last for about 3 hours on idle and made the device overheating. The fix required the user to know how to use SSH/Bash, so less technically inclined people were probably screwed.


How'd you fix this? I have the same problem.

Reply Score: 1

Stratoukos Member since:
2009-02-11

If it's the same thing, you have to ssh in your phone, go to /private/var/mobile/Library/RYP/logs and there should be a file called rockapp_YYYY-MM-DD.log. In my case this file was 17gb. Deleting this and doing a hard reset should fix the problem, but I've read about people that couldn't open the device afterwards or that it messed their package list in Cydia.

Here is a forum thread about it. http://modmyi.com/forums/general-iphone-chat/703745-ryp-log-keeps-w...

Reply Score: 2

kvdman Member since:
2006-04-28

thanks, i'll look at this ;)

Reply Score: 1

.
by Bringbackanonposting on Mon 13th Sep 2010 00:58 UTC
Bringbackanonposting
Member since:
2005-11-16

According to Apple, they invented Videoconferencing too remember? Hahaahaha sure. Funny thing is nobody cares when they say stupid crap like that. They are never held accountable for it.

Reply Score: 2

RE: .
by Chicken Blood on Tue 14th Sep 2010 11:34 UTC in reply to "."
Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

According to Apple, they invented Videoconferencing too remember? Hahaahaha sure. Funny thing is nobody cares when they say stupid crap like that. They are never held accountable for it.


Except Apple never claimed to "invent" videoconferencing.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by astrofra
by astrofra on Mon 13th Sep 2010 22:48 UTC
astrofra
Member since:
2007-02-16

Scydia, Rock, Paper.

Edited 2010-09-13 22:49 UTC

Reply Score: 2