Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 4th Oct 2010 08:45 UTC, submitted by kragil
Window Managers So, yeah, it's been ten years in the making, including a number of rewrites, but the day has finally come: the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries, which, surprisingly enough, form the foundation of, among other things, Enlightenment, have reached beta status. This is a major step towards the final release of Enlightenment DR17, which should hit before year's end.
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Comment by _xmv
by _xmv on Mon 4th Oct 2010 09:20 UTC
_xmv
Member since:
2008-12-09

the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries are petty


I hope they're not ;)

But hey, DR17 getting released, DNF being released as well, what kind of vaporware will we be able to complain about now ?!!

Edited 2010-10-04 09:21 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE: Comment by _xmv
by Kroc on Mon 4th Oct 2010 09:39 UTC in reply to "Comment by _xmv"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

I’m getting you a Phantom gaming console for Christmas ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by _xmv
by WorknMan on Mon 4th Oct 2010 09:40 UTC in reply to "Comment by _xmv"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

But hey, DR17 getting released, DNF being released as well, what kind of vaporware will we be able to complain about now ?!!


Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if hell froze over this year ;)

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by _xmv
by UltraZelda64 on Mon 4th Oct 2010 09:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by _xmv"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

There's always the trusty GNU Hurd. It'll probably remain vaporware for years to come. Unfortunately we've lost two projects to joke about, but at least one major one remains...

Edited 2010-10-04 09:53 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE[3]: Comment by _xmv
by bannor99 on Mon 4th Oct 2010 11:57 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by _xmv"
bannor99 Member since:
2005-09-15

Looks like 2011 will be the Year of Vaporware Condensing. Of course, then the world will end in 2012 but we can celebrate the Apocalypse playing Duke Nukem Forever.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by _xmv
by WorknMan on Mon 4th Oct 2010 22:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by _xmv"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

There's always the trusty GNU Hurd.


Meh, Hurd doesn't really count. I mean, anybody really believe that was ever going to come out?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by _xmv
by bnolsen on Tue 5th Oct 2010 03:43 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by _xmv"
bnolsen Member since:
2006-01-06

Can't they just kill hurd and switch over to making something like plan9 rock?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by _xmv
by tylerdurden on Wed 6th Oct 2010 01:19 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by _xmv"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

I don't think "vaporware" means what you think it does....

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by _xmv
by aliquis on Mon 4th Oct 2010 16:01 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by _xmv"
aliquis Member since:
2005-07-23

It all started with the release of a new Starcraft...

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by _xmv
by sorpigal on Tue 5th Oct 2010 10:26 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by _xmv"
sorpigal Member since:
2005-11-02

We all go through this every now and then. Remember Wine 1.0? How about Mozilla 1.0? And I had similar thoughts when Star Craft II was released this year.

All in all as a long-time E16 user I am pleased to see E17 reaching maturity. You can really do some impressive things with it and I'd like some more modern E16 alternative that doesn't suck. Remember when there were dozens of interesting window managers and everyone used something different? Now most people don't know what a WM is, much less which they're running. Metacity, compiz, kwin and the die-hard minimalists are all you really hear of these days.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by _xmv
by Anonymous Penguin on Mon 4th Oct 2010 12:35 UTC in reply to "Comment by _xmv"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06



But hey, DR17 getting released, DNF being released as well, what kind of vaporware will we be able to complain about now ?!!


I had exactly the same thoughts when I read the title.
What is happening to this planet, is the end really near? ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by _xmv
by fretinator on Mon 4th Oct 2010 14:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by _xmv"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

I had exactly the same thoughts when I read the title. What is happening to this planet, is the end really near? ;)


No, that happens when the Chicago Cubs win the World Series.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by _xmv
by aargh on Mon 4th Oct 2010 12:39 UTC in reply to "Comment by _xmv"
aargh Member since:
2009-10-12

Yeah, I mean even Duke Nukem Forever will finally come out next year. Seriously?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by _xmv
by KermitTheFragger on Mon 4th Oct 2010 20:00 UTC in reply to "Comment by _xmv"
KermitTheFragger Member since:
2008-06-12

Vaporware ?

According to Slashdot this is old news. Enlightenment was released on 2003 april first: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/03/04/01/1423252/Enlightenment-goes-... ;-)

Reply Score: 1

awesome!
by t3RRa on Mon 4th Oct 2010 10:10 UTC
t3RRa
Member since:
2005-11-22

I just reminded the days when the enlightenment was one most recommended window manager with its eye candy and features. I am looking forward to tinker with it. Though would it be hard to port to mac's x11? ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: awesome!
by aliquis on Mon 4th Oct 2010 11:16 UTC in reply to "awesome!"
aliquis Member since:
2005-07-23
RE: awesome!
by dcaro on Mon 4th Oct 2010 21:56 UTC in reply to "awesome!"
dcaro Member since:
2010-01-05

@t3RRa : "Though would it be hard to port to mac's x11?" It's already working on Mac OS X. See

http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/MACOSX

Reply Score: 1

Completely awesome
by ironhoof on Mon 4th Oct 2010 11:13 UTC
ironhoof
Member since:
2010-10-04

I seem to have become a Linux user just in time. This was the first desktop that attracted me to Linux! This is the greatest news ever. I will have to start writting some programs for it ASAP. It seems like the jokes about it will be mute when its finished. I am already using despite it not being "ready", and I love it! Its requirements are so low it runs on cell phones! It also has support for 3d windows I seen somewhere... I wish I could find it again.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Completely awesome
by fretinator on Mon 4th Oct 2010 14:29 UTC in reply to "Completely awesome"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

It seems like the jokes about it will be mute when its finished.


Or as Joey Tribbiani said: "It's a moo point. It's like a cows point of view, it just doesn't matter, it's moo."

Reply Score: 5

No it isnt
Member since:
2005-11-14

We're only waiting for the Hurd, the fourth horseman of the Apocalypse.

Reply Score: 5

orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

You mean GNU/Apocalypse. </RMS>

Reply Score: 4

Comment by Radio
by Radio on Mon 4th Oct 2010 16:15 UTC
Radio
Member since:
2009-06-20

Can't wait to play Duke Nukem Forever on my Hurd/E17 box! The 3D drivers for Wayland make it run really smoothly on my ARM multicore! Truly next year is the year of the linux desktop!

(More seriously, yeah for the good news!)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Radio
by Lennie on Mon 4th Oct 2010 16:57 UTC in reply to "Comment by Radio"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

Linux on the desktop ?

The desktop is already losing ground, the webstatistics from netapplications and statcounter show that:

http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_vs_desktop-ww-monthly-200909-2010...

This one is somewhat harder to read, it shows Windows, Mac and Linux (desktop) loose to iOS and other (mostly mobile):

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=9

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Radio
by Neolander on Mon 4th Oct 2010 17:25 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Radio"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Linux on the desktop ?

The desktop is already losing ground, the webstatistics from netapplications and statcounter show that:

http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_vs_desktop-ww-monthly-200909-2010...

This one is somewhat harder to read, it shows Windows, Mac and Linux (desktop) loose to iOS and other (mostly mobile):

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/os-market-share.aspx?qprid=9

Well, those are percentages, so without raw data it could simply be that mobile OSs are growing faster than desktop, while the desktop still sells a stationary very high flow of devices every day.

That would not be surprising, considering that only few people currently own mobile devices that are good at web browsing, so there are lots of potential buyers once said devices start to become attractive.

We cannot conclude anything from this, because we're comparing a mature market to an emergent market. It would be like saying in the 90s that lasers are going to outsell milling machines and drills for all machining jobs, using numbers showing that the industrial laser market share, which was nonexistent before, is growing, while the mature drilling&milling market is stationary.

Edited 2010-10-04 17:39 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Radio
by KLU9 on Fri 8th Oct 2010 17:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Radio"
KLU9 Member since:
2006-12-06

Seeing that "Linux on the desktop is dying, the stats prove it" comment, I was going to make a joke about combining Enlightenment's vaporware/(un)dead status with the old troll-meme about "BSD is dying, the stats prove it"... ( http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1391352 )

and then I remembered I already had... 3 years ago!
http://www.osnews.com/comments/18736

Oh the hu... manity!

Reply Score: 1

The apocalypse is Neigh!
by kallisti5 on Mon 4th Oct 2010 17:00 UTC
kallisti5
Member since:
2009-09-08

They should hold off until Jan 2012 just to make sure we are all *really* Fuc*ed

Who would of thought that R17 would ever *really* be released?

Reply Score: 1

RE: The apocalypse is Neigh!
by BallmerKnowsBest on Mon 4th Oct 2010 19:50 UTC in reply to "The apocalypse is Neigh!"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

I can't wait until January 1st, 2013... so I can point and laugh at everyone who seriously believes that the world will end in 2012.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: The apocalypse is Neigh!
by Moredhas on Mon 4th Oct 2010 21:29 UTC in reply to "RE: The apocalypse is Neigh!"
Moredhas Member since:
2008-04-10

I have it on good authority that the world will end on the 31st of December this very year! Oh... Wait, just need a new calendar...

Reply Score: 3

another 'c' toolkit
by bnolsen on Tue 5th Oct 2010 03:46 UTC
bnolsen
Member since:
2006-01-06

I'm still not pleased that the EFL is just another 'c' GUI library that re implements the object model of c++ rather poorly. There's nothing wrong with leveraging the small subset of the c++ object model, it really makes sense for GUI development.

Reply Score: 2

RE: another 'c' toolkit
by Darkmage on Tue 5th Oct 2010 10:20 UTC in reply to "another 'c' toolkit"
Darkmage Member since:
2006-10-20

frankly the entire linux desktop model is boring. Etoile/GNUStep looked interesting but it'll be 2025 before they produce anything resembling a usable desktop.

Reply Score: 1

RE: another 'c' toolkit
by dcaro on Tue 5th Oct 2010 12:52 UTC in reply to "another 'c' toolkit"
dcaro Member since:
2010-01-05

"I'm still not pleased that the EFL is just another 'c' GUI library that re implements the object model of c++ rather poorly."

You just don't know how it works. It's not at all like GObject. It does not try to implement an object model in C.

"There's nothing wrong with leveraging the small subset of the c++ object model, it really makes sense for GUI development."

Try to use QT on embedded devices, and have speed and low memory usage. It's just impossible. As an Example : on a set top box running a MIPS @200MHz, QT was just not running, gdk was uber slow, Evas (the graphic part of the EFL) allowed animations at 25 fps.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: another 'c' toolkit
by bnolsen on Tue 5th Oct 2010 14:18 UTC in reply to "RE: another 'c' toolkit"
bnolsen Member since:
2006-01-06

QT isn't light weight c++. It's the epitome of bloat. Look at something more like fltk for something light weight that can be done with c++

Looking at the api it looks like emulating c++ objects with 'c'. Noting all the c style namespacing there's another low hanging fruit. Not to mention the function calls with 15+ arguments.

Edited 2010-10-05 14:26 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: another 'c' toolkit
by dcaro on Tue 5th Oct 2010 17:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: another 'c' toolkit"
dcaro Member since:
2010-01-05

"Looking at the api it looks like emulating c++ objects with 'c'."

There is only 1 object : Evas_Object. That's all. And you say it emulates c++ objects ? Seriously...

"Noting all the c style namespacing there's another low hanging fruit. Not to mention the function calls with 15+ arguments."

If for you C++ is namespace and some (few) functions that take more than 10 parameters, you have a bad idea of C++. Talk about heritage, polymorphism, exceptions, template, etc... That's C++. And all that stuff cost. C++ can be light but then slower than C. It can beat C in speed using meta programmation maybe but then the memory consumption is quite high.

We have chosen C for several good reasons. That's a design choice.

Reply Score: 1