Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 4th Nov 2005 14:47 UTC, submitted by Robert
Debian and its clones Ging, the only live distribution based on Debian GNU/kFreeBSD, has made its way to the 0.1.0 release. Ging is now using KDE 3.4 as its desktop, and includes a mixture of KDE and GNOME applications: Konqueror, Gimp, Koffice, Gaim, and more. And for those who have tried previous versions of Ging, you'll be greatly pleased to see the boot time has decreased by a factor of ~15 times.
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Fonts
by ankitmalik on Fri 4th Nov 2005 16:25 UTC
ankitmalik
Member since:
2005-07-06
RE: Fonts
by DittoBox on Fri 4th Nov 2005 18:02 UTC in reply to "Fonts"
DittoBox Member since:
2005-07-08

No. There doesn't appear to be any AntiAliasing on them though, some of them don't look hinted either.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Fonts
by renox on Fri 4th Nov 2005 21:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Fonts"
renox Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, I would call this messed up!

The irregular spacing between letters looks really ugly, the i and v in 'Ging is a live system' nearly collides for example.
It's been awhile since I've looked to a desktop whose fonts looked that ugly due to the irregular spacing, I thought this was a fixed problem in the open source world, well apparently there is still progress to be made for Ging!

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Fonts
by Anonymous on Sat 5th Nov 2005 20:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Fonts"
Anonymous Member since:
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Debian GNU/kFreeBSD uses the same Xorg source packages as Debian GNU/Linux, and by default the fonts look as great as they do on Debian GNU/Linux. I'm not sure what the problem in the screenshot is, maybe the person has a display where he/she prefers the fonts looking like that.

Reply Score: 0

v why....
by Anonymous on Fri 4th Nov 2005 16:28 UTC
RE: why....
by Anonymous on Fri 4th Nov 2005 16:51 UTC in reply to "why...."
Anonymous Member since:
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ARG, stop it! You don't like KDE and they don't provide Gnome? Then don't use Ging or build Gnome yourself, but in no way will bitching about their lack of Gnome change a thing.

Reply Score: 3

RE: why....
by DittoBox on Fri 4th Nov 2005 18:04 UTC in reply to "why...."
DittoBox Member since:
2005-07-08

I prefer XFCE, simply because I believe both GNOME and KDE are bloated.

Frankly I don't like GTK or QT either, they're slow.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: why....
by IceCubed on Fri 4th Nov 2005 18:20 UTC in reply to "RE: why...."
IceCubed Member since:
2005-07-01

Doesn't XFCE USE GTK?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: why....
by DittoBox on Fri 4th Nov 2005 18:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: why...."
DittoBox Member since:
2005-07-08

Yeah, and I can barely stand it! ;)

It does run faster for the most part probably beacuse it's not loading and running the GNOMe libs.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: why....
by Anonymous on Fri 4th Nov 2005 18:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: why...."
Anonymous Member since:
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The guy that doesnít like KDE, Gnome, QT and GTK but likes XFCE is a dummass. XFCE is based on GTK and most Linux apps are based on either GTK or QT. Using Linux or any other Freenix and avoiding GTK and QT apps is a hard job if you want a usable desktop. The guy probably doesnít really know what apps are GTK or QT based.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: why....
by DittoBox on Fri 4th Nov 2005 18:50 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: why...."
DittoBox Member since:
2005-07-08

I use a gentoo system on stage 1. I'm not a "dumass" and I know most of the dependencies my applications I use. If there a console app that does the same job as a GUI app I'll take that instead.

GTK is slow, and so it QT. I only use XFCE because I like that far better than KDE or GNOME. Please refrain from condemning people before you understand their situation.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: why....
by JonO on Fri 4th Nov 2005 21:02 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: why...."
JonO Member since:
2005-09-23

Using Gentoo != intelligence.

The word "bloated" is the most overused word in armchair expert software review ever. XFCE is quicker and uses less RAM then KDE and GNOME. Does this mean that they are bloated? Maybe in your ricer mind, but all I see is less functionality in XFCE.

And what the hell does this this have to do with the topic?

I'm downloading right now.

Edited 2005-11-04 21:02

Reply Score: 0

RE[6]: why....
by DittoBox on Fri 4th Nov 2005 23:51 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: why...."
DittoBox Member since:
2005-07-08

All I did was express my opinion and I got modded down, flamed and called names for it...go figure.

The worst thing I did was go off topic, that I can agree with. I was wrong and I'm sorry. This does not however warrant the barrage of hostility I got for expressing my opinion.

I have opinions like everyone else, why am I being attacked for expressing it in a non-threatening way? I've not flamed, trolled or called anyone names and yet all I got was flames in return. Why? Because people didn't like my opinion, even if it was wrong (who's place is it to say anyway?). If you don't like my opinion you don't mod me down or call me names, you say so with grace and you say so with an argument, not empty threats.

I know Gentoo doesn't equal intelligence, I'm not an idiot. There's plenty of stupid Gentoo users out there. I do know it requires some degree of understanding as to how a *nix system functions and the paradigm on which it's built. When one builds a large system like GNOME or KDE it has a lot dependencies, I know what the vast majority of them do and I only build the ones I need. I've had many months of everyday, user level experience with GNOME, KDE and XFce. I know what I like, I know what works for me. Why is my experience agitating people like it is.

FYI- "ricers" and the rice rockets they drive generally don't have decent engines (just the stock economy engines, oh and I don't put my into neutral at a stop light to make people think I'm driving a stick). Not around this area. They add a matte black coffee can to the muffler, some clear tail lights and a body kit (with some bondo and chicken wire). A thoroughly configured gentoo system is far more than that. I've used RedHat, fedora, debian, ubuntu, corel, caldera, among many other linux distros and have never found a friendlier community than the gentoo community.

I'm sorry for not staying on topic, that was wrong. I do not, however apologize for asserting my opinion.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: why....
by Anonymous on Sat 5th Nov 2005 07:45 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: why...."
Anonymous Member since:
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What you did is express an opinion in a way that is similar to a flame we are being spammed for some time now. Thereby you have declared yourself to be in liege with those spammers and get most of the flames and hate that is do them. If that was not your intent you should probably think about what you post before you post. OSNews gets lot of off topic flames about god knows what and I am not the only person whose patience is running thin.

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: why....
by Anonymous on Fri 4th Nov 2005 22:15 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: why...."
Anonymous Member since:
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I still think you are a dummass.

1. intellect != distro
2. If you prefer command line why mention or use GUIs
3. This is related to Ging how?

I am a bit aggressive today and name things a I see them.

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: why....
by devurandom on Sat 5th Nov 2005 09:52 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: why...."
devurandom Member since:
2005-07-06

What you don't understand is that XFCE requires GTK.

Look here

http://www.xfce.org/index.php?page=documentation&lang=en

and you'll see GTK is among the requirements.
That's why they're calling you names.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: why....
by Anonymous on Sat 5th Nov 2005 13:16 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: why...."
Anonymous Member since:
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Are you telling GNUstep is not usable?

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: why....
by Anonymous on Sat 5th Nov 2005 13:39 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: why...."
Anonymous Member since:
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You must really have worked hard to read that into what I said. I didnít say anything about GNUStep, but yes GNUStep is not yet usable. How do I define usable for GNUStep? First, a 1.0 release would be nice (we are getting there), second the windows port (again getting their), third more MacOSX apps ported (more APIs need to be implemented), fourth a DE would be nice (GNUStep is the equivalency of GTK or QT, nothing more).
Seeing all this you will probably understand why GNUStep is not part of Distributions like SUSE or RedHat and wont be for some time, also there are no GNUStep killer apps right now (this might change once more MacOSX apps become portable).
My point stands, if you want a usable Freenix desktop you will be hard pressed to avoid GTK and QT apps, and not pressed at all avoiding other toolkits.

Reply Score: 0

v RE[2]: why....
by DittoBox on Fri 4th Nov 2005 18:46 UTC in reply to "RE: why...."
v RE[3]: why....
by setuid_w00t on Fri 4th Nov 2005 20:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: why...."
RE[4]: why....
by DittoBox on Fri 4th Nov 2005 20:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: why...."
DittoBox Member since:
2005-07-08

Read the rules please:

NOTE: This feature is to report comments that are offensive, inflammatory, off topic, or otherwise in violation of the OSNews forum rules detailed on this page.

Please do not use this feature to vote down comments that you merely disagree with, or even ones that contain factual errors or misinformation. Rather, use the reply feature and enlighten us all with your opinion or correct facts.

Just because it's wrong, doesn't mean you mod it down.

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: why....
by JonO on Fri 4th Nov 2005 21:06 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: why...."
JonO Member since:
2005-09-23

Your comments are off-topic. Have you even read what you posted?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: why....
by dukeinlondon on Sat 5th Nov 2005 00:29 UTC in reply to "RE: why...."
dukeinlondon Member since:
2005-07-06

Maybe it's your computer that is slow...

Reply Score: 1

Re: Bloat?
by Anonymous on Fri 4th Nov 2005 16:48 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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What do you define as "bloated"?

Seriously, why is this word thrown around so much in regards to KDE and Gnome both?

KDE does what I want it to and what I need it to, I'm failing to see "bloat". It's faster than Windows ever was on the laptop I'm using right now, I've never noticed Gnome being any faster.

Reply Score: 0

bsd userland
by CaptainPinko on Fri 4th Nov 2005 17:01 UTC
CaptainPinko
Member since:
2005-07-21

is the bsd userland available as a deb or is it strictly gnu/freebsd ?

Reply Score: 1

RE: bsd userland
by shadow303 on Fri 4th Nov 2005 17:28 UTC in reply to "bsd userland"
shadow303 Member since:
2005-06-29

What would be the point in having a Debian distribution with FreeBSD userland and FreeBSD kernel? At that point, it seems that you might as well just grab FreeBSD. Otherwise, I think you'd just end up with FreeBSD that used deb instead of packages/ports, and I don't see any advantage in that.

Reply Score: 1

RE: bsd userland
by Anonymous on Fri 4th Nov 2005 19:50 UTC in reply to "bsd userland"
Anonymous Member since:
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is the bsd userland available as a deb or is it strictly gnu/freebsd ?

How exactly are `availabilty as a deb' and `strict gnu/freebsd policy' mutually exclusive?

Reply Score: 0

Ging?
by Anonymous on Fri 4th Nov 2005 17:27 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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They should name it King, now ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Ging? - what aboute GNUKdE!?
by Anonymous on Fri 4th Nov 2005 21:40 UTC in reply to "Ging?"
Anonymous Member since:
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pronounced 'nuked' ;)

Reply Score: 1

So what is it?
by Anonymous on Fri 4th Nov 2005 17:38 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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Even the FAQ doesn't say anything really, it just tries to be vaguely funny.

I THINK it's a linux kernel with a BSD style userland thanks to a few posts here.

So what exactly is BSD-like? Aren't both Linux and BSD just a collection of GNU tools on top of a different kernel?

Why would I be interested? What is the benefit?

Thanks

Reply Score: 0

RE: So what is it?
by devurandom on Fri 4th Nov 2005 17:45 UTC in reply to "So what is it?"
devurandom Member since:
2005-07-06

I THINK it's a linux kernel with a BSD style userland thanks to a few posts here.

That's exactly the opposite.
It's the GNU and Debian userland with a FreeBSD kernel instead of a Linux kernel (just like Debian GNU/Hurd is the GNU and Debian userland with a Hurd kernel(*) ).

And the BSDs notoriously don't use many GNU tools, but use the corresponding BSD tools, that are often quite different. For example BSD make and GNU make are two different programs.

The advantage? Well, if you prefer to have a FreeBSD kernel for technical reasons but you like the GNU userland more (let's say, because you're accustomed to Linux), Debian/kFreeBSD is a nice choice.

I wait for a Debian/kOpenBSD, with OpenBSD security policy on packages... that would be damn cool! ;)


(*) yes,I know that technically the Hurd is not "a kernel" and whatever, I said that just for the sake of simplicity

Reply Score: 1

RE: So what is it?
by Anonymous on Fri 4th Nov 2005 17:48 UTC in reply to "So what is it?"
Anonymous Member since:
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quote:

Aren't both Linux and BSD just a collection of GNU tools on top of a different kernel?

/quote

GNU/Linux: Yes
Debian GNU/kFreeBSD, Ging: Yes
FreeBSD: No

Reply Score: 0

RE: So what is it?
by DittoBox on Fri 4th Nov 2005 18:12 UTC in reply to "So what is it?"
DittoBox Member since:
2005-07-08

GNU/Linux or Linux is a very fluid concept. In Linux you have the linux kernel and some user land tools. There's a ton distros that are all built on basically all the same projects, mostly GNU.

FreeBSD both the FreeBSD userland tools and the FreeBSD kernel. All of which is a single, large OS project where each version is watched and released carefully.

Ging uses the GNU user land tools (specifially those from the debian code/patch base) and the FreeBSD kernel.

Reply Score: 1

Application mix?
by anda_skoa on Fri 4th Nov 2005 18:45 UTC
anda_skoa
Member since:
2005-07-07

Any example for a GNOME application?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Application mix?
by Anonymous on Fri 4th Nov 2005 19:10 UTC in reply to "Application mix?"
Anonymous Member since:
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Any example for a GNOME application?

GAIM is considered a GNOME app, for example. GAIM: GNOME-(AOL-Instant-Messenger)

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Application mix?
by Anonymous on Fri 4th Nov 2005 19:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Application mix?"
Anonymous Member since:
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GAIM: GNOME-(AOL-Instant-Messenger
Err, no.
From the FAQ:

What does "Gaim" stand for?
For freedom! No, seriously, it doesn't stand for anything. It's our name and we're sticking to it. The two acceptable forms of capitalization are "Gaim" and "gaim" (and not "GAIM").

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Application mix?
by anda_skoa on Fri 4th Nov 2005 19:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Application mix?"
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

GAIM is considered a GNOME app

Ah, I didn't know that. I thought it might be one of those apps that are sometimes wrongly counted as GNOME apps but are in reality GTK+only, like GIMP.

Reply Score: 1