Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 18:19 UTC, submitted by anonymous
BeOS & Derivatives Michael Lotz added code to generate QR-code for the KDL (Kernel Debug Land) ouput (which pops up when the kernel crashes). No more blurry photos with debug output, but a QR code which decodes to the clear-text KDL debug output. Here's one of the relevant commits, an example showing a QR code, and text from decoded sample QR code.
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v WTF IS THIS SHIT
by lucas_maximus on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 18:28 UTC
RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by smashIt on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 18:40 UTC in reply to "WTF IS THIS SHIT"
smashIt Member since:
2005-07-06

Why not I dunno write some data to disk? Surely that would have been simpler.


simpler only if it works
if it doesn't it can destroy data

don't forget that you can't trust the kernel anymore when it KDLs

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by lucas_maximus on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 20:28 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Windows does it fine. Sorry.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by looncraz on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 03:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
looncraz Member since:
2005-07-24

Windows is also not alpha-state software with only a handful of active developers that are actually familiar with the internal workings.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by phoudoin on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 09:24 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

While running Windows, remove your system SATA disk/ssd and check how it works fine.
Now imagine that instead of human removal the cause is disk controler going crazy sometimes, not definitively. Or it's manufacturer driver is immature and don't have this quicky hardware workaround (disclaimer: all kernel crashes appearing in this comment are fictitious. Any resemblance to real ones, pending or past, is purely coincidental...)

How do you get enough data to discover the root cause?

Plus, please notice that Haiku don't have the resources Microsoft had to wrote its Windows kernel, and still it took a lot of time to reach a mature kernel crash features set. And calling the bluescreen a mature kernel debugger is kinda funny, BTW...

Edited 2012-07-03 09:39 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 18:45 UTC in reply to "WTF IS THIS SHIT"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Who thought this was a good idea?

Lets use a smart phone to decode the error message ... Why not I dunno write some data to disk? Surely that would have been simpler.


Right, because that's going to work reliably when the kernel panics.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by umccullough on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 19:17 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

"Who thought this was a good idea?

Lets use a smart phone to decode the error message ... Why not I dunno write some data to disk? Surely that would have been simpler.


Right, because that's going to work reliably when the kernel panics.
"

Well, to be fair, most people don't even know what a kernel panic is - or what it means...

Most OSes just do something fancy, like 'bluescreen', or reboot.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by lucas_maximus on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 20:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

the BSOD is actually pretty advanced.

Considering it does it in the users own language and logs the result in the event viewer.

But hey lets just vote me down.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by dylansmrjones on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 20:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

...Considering it does it in the users own language...


So English is Danish, eh?

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by lucas_maximus on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 20:34 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

No BSOD is actaully in the users own language for the most part. Including Danish I suspect.

Oh well, normal OSNews Crap.

Edited 2012-07-02 20:35 UTC

Reply Score: 0

RE[6]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by umccullough on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 20:38 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Oh well, normal OSNews Crap.


Amusingly, I think that was what most people were thinking when they read *your* comment.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by lucas_maximus on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 20:41 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Well still it doesn't invalidate the first sentence. The Windows Kernel panic is multi-language.

No other OS does that to my knowledge.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by phoudoin on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 09:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

Most OSes just do something fancy, like 'bluescreen', or reboot.


Only the best ones does both ;-)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by quackalist on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 09:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
quackalist Member since:
2007-08-27

Better would be to reboot into a google search of the BSOD error message/s that one didn't have time to read when it booted.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by phoudoin on Wed 4th Jul 2012 07:19 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

Better would be to reboot into a google search of the BSOD error message/s that one didn't have time to read when it booted.

Noway. End-user may choose to stay in that "live-bsod" mode and enjoy reliable web surfing instead of return fixing his usual Windows experience...

Reply Score: 2

v RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by lucas_maximus on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 20:26 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
RE[3]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by MYOB on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 20:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
MYOB Member since:
2005-06-29

Your KDL is caused by an issue relating *to* storage. How do you propose writing anything to the disk?

Your KDL is caused before any relevant busses are enabled. How do you propose writing anything to disk?

Why do you feel the need to make this volume of posts on one single topic without introducing anything new?

Reply Score: 4

v RE[4]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by lucas_maximus on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 21:10 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
RE[5]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by merkoth on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 00:17 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

This doesn't even make any sense, are you serious or just trolling? Do you asume that every kernel panic will happen on the developer's system so he can fix it right away?

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by phoudoin on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 09:33 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

I dunno maybe I think it is better to fix the root cause of the problem then to make a barcode and then use that as a debugging tool.

Just Saying.


That's chicken and egg: how do you fix the root cause of most kernel panic in an OS without having solid crash reports in the first place?!

Promise, when Haiku kernel will be rock solid, we'll remove the qrcode feature and use instead a disk log writer. Happy?

BTW, why keeping a kernel disk log writer if your kernel don't panic anymore at all? Why instead of making Windows BSDO multi-langugage aware Microsoft don't fix the root cause of these BSODs in the first place?

Simple answer: because kernel developers needs it.
Period.
Now please, let's move on.

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by zima on Fri 6th Jul 2012 02:14 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Promise, when Haiku kernel will be rock solid, we'll remove the qrcode feature and use instead a disk log writer. Happy?

Please don't remove it (looks like you're involved?), I think it's great / brilliant / cute, an awesome idea... maybe even all informational popups etc. should have qrcode?


Though, I can see one downside - unpleasant shudder when seeing some random large QR code somewhere. ;)
(kinda like my buddy used Windows error sound for SMS arrival, which made some people in public transport visibly disturbed, a bit)

Now I also wonder if QR code (~animation?...) could be extended to quickly transfer smallish amounts of data; I imagine it could possibly often be more immediately intuitive than bluetooth or wifi.

Edited 2012-07-06 02:19 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by drcouzelis on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 18:46 UTC in reply to "WTF IS THIS SHIT"
drcouzelis Member since:
2010-01-11

WTF IS THIS SHIT

I LOL'd. ^_^

It's just an extra feature to aid in the process of reporting bugs when the kernel crashes. The old method of taking a screenshot using a camera still works fine.

As for me, I don't have a smart phone ;) but I also haven't seen Haiku crash in a long long time on my computer. ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by lucas_maximus on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 20:27 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Or you could spend time writing the error log to the primary storage device which the OS already knows.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by merkoth on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 00:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

One of the possible causes of the kernel panic is not being able to access said device, so where do you suggest to write the log?

But let's say you actually dump the file. What if the system doesn't boot anymore? Do your move the partition / drive to a different Haiku machine?

Do you realize this is an, WIP OS with no stable release right?

Edited 2012-07-03 00:14 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by phoudoin on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 09:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

Writing data to a storage device requires a lot of hardware control to *still* work. What happened when the boot device is an USB one and the panic is due to USB bus controler or its driver code? How do you write anything to a data storage device in such case?

Same goes for ATA bus, which is not *that* trivial to access.

Meanwhile, displaying data is simple: just write bytes at a well-known address within framebuffer addresses range. Simple and highly reliable.

What was not simple and reliable was copying the data displayed that way.

Edited 2012-07-03 09:35 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by anevilyak on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 19:18 UTC in reply to "WTF IS THIS SHIT"
anevilyak Member since:
2005-09-14

Relax, would you? It's simply an alternative way to get the information out of the kernel debugger in order to be able to copy it into bug reports. Since most modern systems don't have serial ports any more, it can't be captured that way, and photographs of a computer monitor are large, unwieldy and can be a pain to get focused properly without cutting off important bits of information.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by tuaris on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 20:27 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
tuaris Member since:
2007-08-05

One of Hakiu's goals is to "build the operating system of the future". Something like this is exactly the type of thing that helps fulfill that goal.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by lucas_maximus on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 20:33 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Err Event Viewer in Windows or at least a Kernel dump.

It is the 21st century my friend, people have worked out how to write text file to a hardrive.

Edited 2012-07-02 20:46 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by galvanash on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 23:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

Err Event Viewer in Windows or at least a Kernel dump.

It is the 21st century my friend, people have worked out how to write text file to a hardrive.


And how do you get the text file to the kernel developer???

Remember, the machine doesn't actually work reliably - otherwise it wouldn't be generating kernel panics.

This is so fricken obvious - I can't believe you are still arguing about this...

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by JAlexoid on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 06:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Yes, I've never seen Windows Event viewer "loose" a critical error message... evar! Same goes for kernel dumps.

Reply Score: 3

RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by galvanash on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 23:49 UTC in reply to "WTF IS THIS SHIT"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

Who thought this was a good idea?

Lets use a smart phone to decode the error message ... Why not I dunno write some data to disk? Surely that would have been simpler.


You are completely missing the point. The information being displayed is of no use at all to an end user. On Windows you get stop codes - are you saying a stop code conveys useful information to the user? It is a completely meaningless number...

Haiku is not Windows or Linux. The userbase is very small and is under rapid development. Googling stop codes or other such nonsense to try and figure out why something is going wrong (as an end user) is likely to be very hit or miss, mostly miss. The real purpose of the information is to allow a kernel developer to determine what went wrong. That is, btw, the real purpose of the information for Windows too - the fact they you can often look up stop codes on the web and gleam out what is going on from them is due to its popularity - nothing more.

More importantly though, for it to be of any use to anyone it has to be communicated to the developer... How exactly do you get the debug log off the hard-drive of the machine that doesn't work reliably???

The whole point is to make it simple to communicate the information to a developer. It is much cleaner to get an easy to decipher QRCode than it is to try and squint it out of a bad photo of a monitor.

Sure, the stop code approach (which serves roughly the same purpose) works too, but stop codes are just keys to a lookup - the stop code itself means nothing unless you already know where in the code they get hit. Using QR codes you can actually put a fair amount of meaningful information INTO the "stop code".

I suspect Haiku is not far enough along yet to get religious about how they handle kernel panics internally, different subsystems likely dump/panic in different ways (with differing levels of detail). This is a catchall mechanism to deal with the issue of inconsistent error handling.

I would like to see something as consistent as stop codes used for Haiku as well one day, but I think this QR code thing is a lovely idea for the time being. And it will remain useful even if they get to that point (as a way to convey additional information).

Reply Score: 3

RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by sorpigal on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 12:55 UTC in reply to "WTF IS THIS SHIT"
sorpigal Member since:
2005-11-02

It may seem a bit odd but it's not such a bad idea. The Linux kernel developers are presently considering patches that would print a QR code to the screen in case of a panic (and for just the same reasons).

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by phoudoin on Wed 4th Jul 2012 07:21 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

<patent troll mode>
Quick, Haiku guys, let's secure this patent!
</patent troll mode>

Well, at least Haiku will be a prior art of something ;-)

Edited 2012-07-04 07:22 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: WTF IS THIS SHIT
by zima on Fri 6th Jul 2012 02:14 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF IS THIS SHIT"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

I think that's an awesome idea... maybe all informational popups etc. should have qrcode.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by diegocg
by diegocg on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 19:02 UTC
diegocg
Member since:
2005-07-08

A good candidate for http://wtfqrcodes.com/

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by diegocg
by Delgarde on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 02:15 UTC in reply to "Comment by diegocg"
Delgarde Member since:
2008-08-19

A good candidate for http://wtfqrcodes.com/


Not really... this is less of a WTF, and more of a "why hasn't someone thought of that before".

It's exactly the same old behaviour - dumping debug info to the screen on a crash - but it does so in a way that a reliable digital copy can be made (instead of a hand-written transcript, or a blurry photo of the screen). Brilliant.

Reply Score: 5

Relevant blog post link
by umccullough on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 19:26 UTC
umccullough
Member since:
2006-01-26

Michael also wrote a blogpost about this feature:

http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/mmlr/2012-07-01_qr_encode_your_kdl_out...

Reply Score: 5

Comment by Drumhellar
by Drumhellar on Mon 2nd Jul 2012 20:08 UTC
Drumhellar
Member since:
2005-07-12

Wow. That's actually pretty darn cool.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Comment by Drumhellar
by Delgarde on Tue 3rd Jul 2012 02:12 UTC in reply to "Comment by Drumhellar"
Delgarde Member since:
2008-08-19

Wow. That's actually pretty darn cool.


Yeah, that was my reaction too. It's not much more complicated than the traditional approach of dumping "techie gibberish" to the screen, but it does so in a way that allows that info to be copied off the machine in an error-free manner. It's a brilliant idea.

Reply Score: 4

Write to disk
by aldeck on Wed 4th Jul 2012 10:08 UTC
aldeck
Member since:
2006-12-07

'Write to disk' is actually supported, in some cases, that is if you're able to reboot the machine (working keyboard in kdl or a reset button that most laptop don't have). The bootloader has an option to write the previous syslog found in RAM to a FAT32 formated usb drive.

It's all there :

http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/ReportingBugs#Syslog


edit: keyboard reboot method

Edited 2012-07-04 10:22 UTC

Reply Score: 3