Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 26th Jul 2013 16:56 UTC
In the News "According to the CONTEXT data, Android tablets now account for 61.2 percent of the Western European tablet market, more than double the 25.1 percent recorded the same time last year. Apple iOS devices, meanwhile, fell to 37.2 percent of Western European tablet market sales by distribution, from 71.2 percent at the same time last year." This is nothing short of a catastrophic collapse of iPad market share in Europe. Furthermore, "This analysis also screens out the effect of Windows 8, credited in some quarters with helping to drive increased tablet market share and cut into Apple’s tablet lead, but in fact with little to no impact, according to CONTEXT." And yes, Windows 8 on tablets is a dud.
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Duh...
by TemporalBeing on Fri 26th Jul 2013 17:34 UTC
TemporalBeing
Member since:
2007-08-22

Windows 8 on tablets is a dud


How many times do we have to say "duh" before the MS fanboys realize the truth about Windows 8?

Reply Score: 3

RE: Duh...
by Deviate_X on Fri 26th Jul 2013 17:44 UTC in reply to "Duh..."
Deviate_X Member since:
2005-07-11

Just saying, dud Windows sales are still counted in hundreds of millions...

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Duh...
by TemporalBeing on Fri 26th Jul 2013 17:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Duh..."
TemporalBeing Member since:
2007-08-22

Just saying, dud Windows sales are still counted in hundreds of millions...


Not really. Win8 doesn't have "hundreds of millions" in sales. Historically, MS sells nearly 100 million licenses a year.

Now factor in that TFA was discussing tablets, which is only a very small portion and as far as we can tell isn't even reaching the 10 million mark. (MS hasn't really released numbers other than that they haven't sold as many as they thought they would.)

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Duh...
by darknexus on Fri 26th Jul 2013 18:26 UTC in reply to "RE: Duh..."
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Yes they are, but let's get the sales figures from the Tablet OEMs, along with the return figures before we call it a success.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Duh...
by glarepate on Sat 27th Jul 2013 06:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Duh..."
glarepate Member since:
2006-01-04

Just saying, dud Windows sales are still counted in hundreds of millions...



And Android sales are in the billions, larger than Windows and, not just Mac, but all of Apple sales (by volume, not revenue), combined. But who's counting?

Oh, yeah, a few folks are ...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2013/07/21/microsoft_wi...

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Duh...
by JAlexoid on Sat 27th Jul 2013 18:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Duh..."
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

On tablets? No.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Duh...
by bentoo on Fri 26th Jul 2013 22:10 UTC in reply to "Duh..."
bentoo Member since:
2012-09-21

"Windows 8 on tablets is a dud


How many times do we have to say "duh" before the MS fanboys realize the truth about Windows 8?
"

What "truth" is that? That it will fail because you don't like it?

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Duh...
by cdude on Mon 29th Jul 2013 16:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Duh..."
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

That it already failed* cause customers not liked it.

* Microsoft just lost a billion $ on there RT experiment, Samsung stopped selling them, Nokia aborted its tablet plans, etc.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Deviate_X
by Deviate_X on Fri 26th Jul 2013 17:40 UTC
Deviate_X
Member since:
2005-07-11

What about methodology? is an iPad 4 really compared to a monochrome kindle? are they really the same category of product?

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Deviate_X
by przemo_li on Sat 27th Jul 2013 07:12 UTC in reply to "Comment by Deviate_X"
przemo_li Member since:
2010-06-01

E-Ink Android powered tablets are just tablets.

E-Ink powered E-Readers are not tablets.

So "monochrome" Kindles, are not included. However LCD kindle, nook, (any other ebook oriented tablet here) are.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Deviate_X
by MOS6510 on Sat 27th Jul 2013 08:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Deviate_X"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

I agree. I can read books on my iPad, but I prefer my ereader. It may be slow and very limited, but it's a better option for distraction free reading and I prefer the non-backlit e-ink screen.

But I am on the look for a new ereader, which isn't easy and most seem to suck. The Kindle seems to be the best, but they don't do epub. Not a deal breaker, but I'd prefer a device that can read <any> ebook.

My dream device would be an ereader that does nothing else but display books and have a touch screen for turning pages. I don't care for pictures, audio, WiFi and bookstores.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by Deviate_X
by przemo_li on Sun 28th Jul 2013 08:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Deviate_X"
przemo_li Member since:
2010-06-01

Nook Simple Touch [Glow] is Your Friend.

And it can be rooted into Android 2.1... ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Deviate_X
by MOS6510 on Sun 28th Jul 2013 08:29 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Deviate_X"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

It only does ePub, but apart from that it seems what I need!

My ebook software, Calibre, can convert <all> to ePub so it's not that big of an issue.

Thanks, I'll try to get one!

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by Deviate_X
by przemo_li on Sun 28th Jul 2013 08:35 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Deviate_X"
przemo_li Member since:
2010-06-01

Root it.

Install all those shop-related ebook readers.

And You got everything-having ereader ;)

Reply Score: 2

I was considering Android but
by darknexus on Fri 26th Jul 2013 18:25 UTC
darknexus
Member since:
2008-07-15

Google just did something that is out of line, forcing E-mail ads on us in our Inboxes. Even if you hide the damn things, they do not get hidden from your iMap account (and that is how I use my Gmail). Since they've gone this far, who knows how much further they will go? Push ads (hell, some apps on Android already do that). Forced ads? This is getting out of hand and I for one am done supporting Google in any way, shape, or form. I'll stick with my iOS devices until something more open that is not run by an advertising company comes along. I don't approve of things Apple has done but, to me, they're a lot less annoying than Google has become. Goodbye Google; there's only so much a guy can take.

Reply Score: 2

RE: I was considering Android but
by Morty on Fri 26th Jul 2013 21:55 UTC in reply to "I was considering Android but"
Morty Member since:
2005-07-06

Google just did something that is out of line, forcing E-mail ads on us in our Inboxes.


They do? Odd, I have never seen any of that, on my Android devices or elsewhere. So I don't think Google has broken E-Mail.

Then again, if you sign up for a free service from a ad company. You should not be surprised if they give you ads. Personally I don't like giving such a company full access to my E-mails. I solve that issue the same way you can solve your problem, simply use another E-mail provider.

Reply Score: 5

RE: I was considering Android but
by ricegf on Fri 26th Jul 2013 22:36 UTC in reply to "I was considering Android but"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

I haven't seen this either. When did they first appear? Can you cite a news source? Just wondering what to expect, since I use gmail pretty heavily.

Reply Score: 2

darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

I haven't seen this either. When did they first appear? Can you cite a news source? Just wondering what to expect, since I use gmail pretty heavily.

I certainly can, though you could have found several yourself had you "googled" this. Here's just one:
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/07/the-new-gmai...
I first saw these two days ago and didn't know where the hell they were coming from. It was only after researching that I discovered what was happening and from where it was originating. None of the news sources seem to have found the little iMap bug (or perhaps not a bug) where hiding this promotions tab does not stop them from spamming the living hell out of my iMap inbox, but it makes sense if you consider that "hiding" something from the web interface doesn't mean "removing" it from your account. Considering that I'm mostly using Gmail through iMap on portable devices, this renders Gmail damn near unuseable. These cursed things show up several times per day, and they're not even targeted.
What really pisses me off is that I, unlike some users apparently, was not given an opt in to this new inbox crap. My account had it forced as soon as I logged into the web interface to do some archival clean-up and then the flood began. No more, I say.

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Eh, maybe it's just me but the Promotions tab doesn't have anything I wasn't already getting in my inbox. It's just promotions from sites I'm already signed up with.

Reply Score: 4

Savior Member since:
2006-09-02

I also believed that all the new Inbox does is classify the e-mails you get; it doesn't send new ads or anything, just tries to sort the mails you would have received anyway. But if so, just disable the Promotions tab, and that's it. BTW, I have disabled everything primary, so I'm back at the old layout. I see this only as a layout change, nothing more.

Reply Score: 5

ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

The reason I couldn't find it is that the article doesn't match what I get from your rant.

"...you won’t see [the ads] at all if there are no relevant placements for Google to serve up"

"They also do not appear for users who have disabled the Promotions tab."

"they do not appear in the Gmail mobile app, the spokesperson confirmed"

"The new Gmail is, generally speaking, an improvement."

"less than one per cent of all spam in Gmail reaches an inbox. It could not stuff its own ads in the box if it had not already cleared the space"

But, of course, if you hate Gmail, then by all means go elsewhere. Why not buy your own server and manage it yourself?

I personally never have email sent directly to my Gmail account; I give each person or company a unique email address for me in one of my personal domains, and those domains (with a few select exceptions) are forwarded to Gmail for easy access from anywhere in the world.

This has the added benefit of enabling me to tell which person or company gave my name to someone else; each address is in essence "tagged" with the identity of to whom I gave it.

If I left Gmail, flipping a couple of switches redirects all email to whatever server or service I choose.

Anyway, thanks for the response. Glad to know what it is (and isn't!) that made you so mad - and I certainly understand why you are mad. It will be interesting to see if a significant portion of Gmail users respond with as much anger as you have.

Reply Score: 3

darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

"...you won’t see [the ads] at all if there are no relevant placements for Google to serve up"

"They also do not appear for users who have disabled the Promotions tab."

Jesus, do you even read comments? I already pointed out that disabling the promotions tab doesn't remove them from my imap inbox, and that's what bothers me. How much more clear do I need to be about it?

Reply Score: 3

ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

Yes, I read your comment. What I keep pointing out is that others, including replies to your comment that preceded mine, other articles on the new feature, and even the article that you referenced, aren't seeing the behaviour about which you are complaining.

But again, instead of cursing at me for pointing this out, you should definitely change to a different email service. I hear outlook.com is accepting applications?

Reply Score: 3

uh huh
by kristoph on Fri 26th Jul 2013 18:26 UTC
kristoph
Member since:
2006-01-01

Thom,

It always fascinates me how you don't bother posting on stories which contradict the world view you want to see.

Firstly, IDC already published 'shipment' numbers where iOS tablets are actually shipped at about this rate globally so this is not even particularly new news.

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24093213

Secondly, all those shipment's don't obviate the fact that, you know, iOS tablets are the most prevalent in the wild (by like a huge margin).

http://chitika.com/insights/2013/june-tablet-update

Reply Score: 2

RE: uh huh
by darknexus on Fri 26th Jul 2013 18:29 UTC in reply to "uh huh"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Bottom line is: any study of platform X over platform Y is going to be skewed toward the author's favored side. Android is successful, as is iOS. We all get our apps and everyone's happy. Competition is a fine thing, although if Google keeps alienating users we may see Android fall a bit.

Reply Score: 3

RE: uh huh
by No it isnt on Fri 26th Jul 2013 18:38 UTC in reply to "uh huh"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

That's for 1Q13. iPad shipments declined for the first time in 2Q13.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: uh huh
by kristoph on Fri 26th Jul 2013 20:37 UTC in reply to "RE: uh huh"
kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

Actually, the data cited in the linked 'report' was for first half od 2013. I am showing you data from June.

Reply Score: 1

RE: uh huh
by MOS6510 on Fri 26th Jul 2013 18:42 UTC in reply to "uh huh"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

I just spend 3 week in a hotel in Turkey. The same one as in 2010 when I was the only iPad user. Some guest carried laptops around and I spotted a few ereaders.

This year it was crazy. A large amount of iPads. I spotted no other brands. Also a lot of iPhones and Androids, no BlackBerry or WP. Funny enough most shopkeepers had an iPhone 4/4S (no 5) and always kept them on the counter in plain sight.

All those devices did mess up the hotel WiFi: it was almost always overloaded. At one point I managed to hack in to the router and kick everybody off by deactivating the DHCP server and giving my iPhone a static IP. It worked very well for a while.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: uh huh
by Hiev on Fri 26th Jul 2013 18:54 UTC in reply to "RE: uh huh"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Are Hotels still using the default admin user and password?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: uh huh
by darknexus on Fri 26th Jul 2013 18:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: uh huh"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Are Hotels still using the default admin user and password?

Indeed, and it gets worse. Many businesses use not only default router passwords, but default SSIDs and, if applicable, default WEP keys. It's pathetic, and it's not as if they'd need to employ a security expert to grasp something so simple.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: uh huh
by MOS6510 on Fri 26th Jul 2013 20:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: uh huh"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

No, until they installed a new router which I noticed during my WiFi frustrations. Then it was a simple admin/admin.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: uh huh
by benytocamela on Fri 26th Jul 2013 20:57 UTC in reply to "RE: uh huh"
benytocamela Member since:
2013-05-16

At one point I managed to hack in to the router and kick everybody off by deactivating the DHCP server and giving my iPhone a static IP. It worked very well for a while.



and the stereotype of the entitled asshole apple user continues...

Reply Score: 10

RE[3]: uh huh
by MOS6510 on Sat 27th Jul 2013 02:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: uh huh"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12
RE[4]: uh huh
by zima on Wed 31st Jul 2013 15:05 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: uh huh"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Duh, you're used to being more "generous" when paying for Apple stuff :p

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: uh huh
by MOS6510 on Wed 31st Jul 2013 15:06 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: uh huh"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Obviously! :-p

Reply Score: 2

Something seems a bit off...
by Tony Swash on Fri 26th Jul 2013 19:01 UTC
Tony Swash
Member since:
2009-08-22

There seems to be some conflicting data here.

The Context report, which is based on gleaning information from a survey of sales channel vendors, says Android’s share of the slate tablet market more than doubled in H1/2013 (61.2%) compared to a year ago (25.1%). Meanwhile Apple’s iOS share of slate tablets sales through distribution fell from 71.2% in H1/2012 to 37.2% in the first half of this year. That's a pretty big change. It is not clear what is the volume or quality of the the raw data that this claim is based on (it's also not clear if Apple retail sent any data to Context for inclusion in their survey although I doubt it).

Compare that figure to the Adobe Dig­i­tal Index 2013 State of Mobile Benchmark Report, released on April 23rd, which analyses 150 billion visits to 1,500+ web­sites to provide an overview of how consumers are using mobile devices worldwide. The summary report is here:

http://blogs.adobe.com/digitalmarketing/digital-index/samsung-smart...

The Adobe report includes this chart of tablet share of visits which includes the following figures for three large European markets (one of which, the UK, the Context reports claims is the fastest growing national tablet market in Europe with year on year growth of 389%),

http://blogs.adobe.com/digitalmarketing/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/...

The chart shows the following web usage by tablet OS

UK
iPad 84%
Android 14%

Germany
iPad 82%
Android 18%

France
iPad 77%
Android 22%

The Adobe figures are not an outlier. Many similar surveys of web usage by tablet platform find very similar patterns. For example the E-commerce Monetate 2013 Quarterly report (June) based on 500 million visits amongst their clients who include Ecommerce brands such as Best Buy, Frontier Airlines, Aeropostale, The Sports Authority, and PETCO, finds the iPad taking 89% of the tablet share.

http://www.smartinsights.com/mobile-marketing/mobile-marketing-anal...

Similarly the recent (July 2013) Chikita study on the tablet market showed Apple iPad users’ share of U.S. and Canadian tablet Web traffic has increased by nearly two percentage points, from 82.4% in May 2013, to 84.3% in June 2013. To determine the distribution of Web usage among tablet devices for the month of June 2013, Chitika Insights sampled tens of millions of U.S. and Canadian tablet online ad impressions running through the Chitika Ad Network.

http://chitika.com/insights/2013/june-tablet-update

So there is some sort of disconnect between what the Context report claims and all the other surveys of actual tablet usage by platform shows. And all the other reports are producing remarkably similar figures.

There are number of possibilities. One is that all the reports are right and Android tablet users are just not using their tablets to surf the web. But given that web surfing seems to be such a core tablet use one would have to ask what are those Android tablet users actually doing with their tablets?

Alternatively the Context report could just be wrong.

Anecdotal evidence is not that good and proves nothing but I have to say travelling around London on the tube I don't see a surge of tablet use by nearly four fold and the iPad still seems the most common tablet people are using.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Something seems a bit off...
by MOS6510 on Fri 26th Jul 2013 20:35 UTC in reply to "Something seems a bit off..."
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

iOS users use their iOS device(s) much more, so it is possible that there are more Android devices around, but you don't see them either visually or statistically.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Something seems a bit off...
by fatjoe on Fri 26th Jul 2013 20:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Something seems a bit off..."
fatjoe Member since:
2010-01-12

*cough* Google Currents *cough*

Reply Score: 3

Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

*cough* Google Currents *cough*


I assume you are suggesting that Google Currents is used by so many Android tablet users (but oddly not by iPad users) that it hides enough Android user from those conducting platform web usage surveys to completely distort the survey results.

Novel idea. I find it a bit implausible but would love to see some evidence supporting it.

Reply Score: 2

fatjoe Member since:
2010-01-12

No evidence, just my personal usage pattern. I use Currents for about an hour every day. Chrome? Maybe 15 minutes every month.


This could have something to do with the fact that mobile Chrome sucks big time. And that you don't need to start a browser to do a Google search for something on Android...

Edited 2013-07-26 23:03 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

No evidence, just my personal usage pattern. I use Currents for about an hour every day. Chrome? Maybe 15 minutes every month.


This could have something to do with the fact that mobile Chrome sucks big time. And that you don't need to start a browser to do a Google search for something on Android...



So stop coughing and find some real evidence.

Reply Score: 3

gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

LOL. I'd actually pay to remove f*ckin Currents from my Nex7. Seems you can't remove Google apps from Google devices without rooting and flashing a Custom ROM (which I can't be bothered to do anymore).

Currents is the most bloated, resource consuming thing on my tablet. Despite turning off Currents syncing long ago (cos it slowed everything down whenever it synced) I still go to Settings -> Apps at least once a week just to double-check that Currents isn't running in the background.

It might look nice, but the Android version misbehaves like a conservative republican santorum!! Likes to stick it's face in what remaining system memory whenever it feels like it. At least the one on iOS dies when you exit it.

Edited 2013-07-27 00:34 UTC

Reply Score: 2

JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Novel idea. I find it a bit implausible but would love to see some evidence supporting it.

Considering that rising Android tablets sales have had corroborating reports from many market research organisations, I find it interesting that you continue to live in this bubble...

Reply Score: 4

RE: Something seems a bit off...
by fatjoe on Fri 26th Jul 2013 20:38 UTC in reply to "Something seems a bit off..."
fatjoe Member since:
2010-01-12

Oh man, not this shit again.

You don't like the reports from sales channels, so you try to paint some alternate reality?

Reply Score: 5

Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

Oh man, not this shit again.

You don't like the reports from sales channels, so you try to paint some alternate reality?


It's report singular not reports plural. One report using an unknown data sample collected using largely unspecified data sampling techniques produces a report that shows a massive market shift that is not mirrored by numerous other surveys whose methodology and very big data sample sizes are transparently available. All that does not make the outlier survey showing a super rapid transformation of the table market wrong but it should make one cautious about drawing any hard or big conclusions based upon it.

The massive disparity between claimed shipments of Android tablets and actual usage is startling. It mirrors but is even more pronounced than the similar disparity between Android phone shipments and phone OS usage data. Something distinctive is happening but exactly what is not completely clear.

I think that one possible contributory factor explaining the disjunction between channel sales figures in the Context report and all the indicators of tablet usage is that a lot of people have bought cheap Android tablets, or even more likely had them bought for them, based on the price and now those tablets are gathering dust in a drawer somewhere.

But I also think that there is more to it than that.

Reply Score: 1

fatjoe Member since:
2010-01-12

I am amazed that people can with a straight face claim that the shipment/sale numbers form vendors and analysts and sales channels are all wrong or suspicious then throw in some really crazy numbers from some site I never heard of using a method that is just plain stupid...


For your information, the stock browser on some Android tablets, out of the box will spoof the device as an iPad. Why? Because some web developers are idiots.

Edited 2013-07-26 23:07 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

I am amazed that people can with a straight face claim that the shipment/sale numbers form vendors and analysts and sales channels are all wrong or suspicious then throw in some really crazy numbers from some site I never heard of using a method that is just plain stupid...


Some site you have never heard of such as Adobe?

Whose site spells out how it has compiled it's data (150 bil­lion vis­its to 1,500+ websites)?

Remember we are talking about one report on the one side reporting one set of market conditions and numerous usage surveys using different sampling techniques and data sets on the other hand pointing in another direction. The disjunction between the two is a real phenomena worthy of some thought and analysis.

Reply Score: 2

cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

To be fair, Adobe isn't particular large on Android. Beside there PDF reader (which has plenty better alternates on Android, some preinstalled by vendors) there isn't much from them there. Flash is either pre-installed and invisible or not supported on newer versions. Whats left is Adobe AIR and I know nobody using Android who installed it.

On iOS situation is different in that Apple and Adobe are partners, eg Photoshop for OSX, and the brand is more promoted, there products are more visible and used more on iOS.

In contrast we could citate a study from, lets say, Chrome how much users they have on iOS vs Android and draw conclusions.

Edited 2013-07-29 16:53 UTC

Reply Score: 1

kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

the stock browser on some Android tablets, out of the box will spoof the device as an iPad. Why? Because some web developers are idiots.


No it's does not. Where did you hear something so ridiculous? Modern Android tablets ship with Chrome, the older Android browser reported itself as Android.

Reply Score: 0

fatjoe Member since:
2010-01-12

Ridiculous?

1. Even on Windows desktop Chrome identifies itself as AppleWebKit & Safari (http://www.whatsmyuseragent.com/)
2. In some tablets, the stock browser had identical user-agent to that of ipad (http://i.imgur.com/YKO9fXB.jpg).

Reply Score: 3

kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

You clearly have no idea of what you speak. What you are referring to is the rendering engine identity (because, you know, these browsers were all WebKit/Safari based until recently). However, the user agent string will also identify the OS like so ...

Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; {Android Version}; {Build Tag etc.}) AppleWebKit/{WebKit Rev}(KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome<{Chrome Rev} Safari/{WebKit Rev}

So, obviously, it's trivial to identify the OS. The usage reports are accurate (in contrast to the 'sales' reports, which are often 'sold to vendor' rather then 'sold to customer').

Reply Score: 2

cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

Usage-report of THERE services. Its known that Android, and Google in particular, draw lot of the attention/traffic, read usage, to there own services. iOS, read Apple, leaves more gaps open for theird parties to fill hence different story.

Sales are way more accurate. Channel-stuffing and other factors possible infuencing there view are balanced. Also cause its sales which count except your business-strategy is mainly services like Google's in which case its only relevant what THERE usage-statics are and I think Google has plenty more Android users then iOS users. If competition as results has lesser Android usage then it's there competative disadvantage problem but no no GENERIC Android-usage argument.

Edited 2013-07-29 17:08 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I think the rise in mobile applications is making usage harder to track. Analytics currently in application seem to be more of a tool for developers vs. a usage statistic for an OS as a whole. Engagement stats for applications and browsing as a whole on the device would probably yield some valuable insight.

I'm interested in exactly how people use Android vs how people use iOS, and how the experiences on each tablet lend themselves to those particular usage habits.

Also, high browser usage on iOS doesn't necessarily rule out high in app usage as well, as implied by others in this thread.

Reply Score: 3

kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

You don't like the reports from sales channels, so you try to paint some alternate reality?


Actually all year, globally, we've all seen reports that Android accounts for 60 - 70% of tablet shipments. In theory, more Android tablets have now been shipped then iPad's.

But as early as last month there has not been a single report of Android tablet usage on the web being even marginally close to iPad usage (the difference is on the order to 10x).

Anyway, this is all pointless debate. It's great that Android is doing well. It's just there is more to this story then 'oh look Apple is dying yay!'.

Reply Score: 1

chithanh Member since:
2006-06-18

It's just there is more to this story then 'oh look Apple is dying yay!'.

Where in this story is the claim made that Apple is dying?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Something seems a bit off...
by ricegf on Fri 26th Jul 2013 22:42 UTC in reply to "Something seems a bit off..."
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

That has been a consistent theme since the iPhone first shipped - Apple devices generate a LOT of web traffic.

Some anecdotal evidence. My wife uses her Kindle Fire to read endless free books, play Words with Friends and some candy game, and share family photos.

My son uses his Nexus 7 to play a LOT of games, to test Android apps, and do a little school research.

My daughter uses her Galaxy Tab to IM a host of friends, play games, and read manga and fan fics.

I use my iPad to read OS News and similar tech and news websites a lot more than I'd like to admit, and to connect to work email.

So... yeah, I think iPad users just use the web a lot, while Android users tend to use apps. It is, after all, a self-selecting sample. *shrugs*

Reply Score: 3

someone Member since:
2006-01-12

Based on the software offerings on each platform, I would have predicted the exact opposite: Android users surf the web more, because they have a richer offering of browser; iPad users tend to use the apps more, since the iTMS has more apps.

But of course, user behaviours are not solely dictated by software offerings

Reply Score: 1

RE: Something seems a bit off...
by lemur2 on Sat 27th Jul 2013 05:09 UTC in reply to "Something seems a bit off..."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

The chart shows the following web usage by tablet OS


This article is about current market share ... the share of the tablets that are being sold right now between Android, iOS and others.

I quote: "According to the CONTEXT data, Android tablets now account for 61.2 percent of the Western European tablet market, more than double the 25.1 percent recorded the same time last year. Apple iOS devices, meanwhile, fell to 37.2 percent of Western European tablet market sales by distribution, from 71.2 percent at the same time last year." This is nothing short of a catastrophic collapse of iPad market share in Europe.

Web usage share is a different thing entirely ... that is more a measure of what has been sold in the past.

Edited 2013-07-27 05:12 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Something seems a bit off...
by przemo_li on Sat 27th Jul 2013 07:22 UTC in reply to "Something seems a bit off..."
przemo_li Member since:
2010-06-01

You mean, that you can not distinguish between:

SALE NUMBERS

and

USAGE NUMBERS

??

You sir need a quick crash course of statistics applied:

Sale numbers report how many NEW devices where sold (or delivered to shops, and then those are SHIPMENT numbers). Those numbers represent current trend, and are useful in assessing how many out of every 10 customers would choose given product. (In Europe its ~6 for Android and ~3 for iOS..)

Usage numbers, show how many persons USE given thing while doing something SPECIFIC. Internet usage show, how many use iOS to browse internet, and how many use Android to browse Internet. Those stats are useful in assessing who is your primary target right now. Who is most likely to use your service/good/whatever.


First category is used to assess current trends, second is used for assessing INSTALLED BASE (-> how many devices/users of each are out there in given region).

Reply Score: 4

kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

If the sales numbers by this analyst (or for that matter global IDC numbers) are as then Android tablets should now be almost as numerous then iPad's.

Arguably, the OS usage gap should be shrinking. In contrast, usage reports suggest that this is not the case making the sales numbers 'a bit off'.

Reply Score: 1

Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

What would be great is if Android device vendors just posted real audited shipment figures each quarter like Apple. It is noticeable that although Google does post device activation figures every so often it does not routinely posts actual device sales figures as part of it's quarterly financial returns. Neither does Samsung.

At the new Nexus 7 launch event two days ago Google reported it had activated 70 million Android tablets to date. Apple have sold around 160 million iPads to date (over a longer period). Android tablet sales appears to be accelerating. The trend in Apple's tablet sales will be clearer in the next holiday quarter when we can compare comparable quarters.

Reply Score: 1

JPisini Member since:
2006-01-24

What would be great is if Android device vendors just posted real audited shipment figures each quarter like Apple. It is noticeable that although Google does post device activation figures every so often it does not routinely posts actual device sales figures as part of it's quarterly financial returns. Neither does Samsung.

At the new Nexus 7 launch event two days ago Google reported it had activated 70 million Android tablets to date. Apple have sold around 160 million iPads to date (over a longer period). Android tablet sales appears to be accelerating. The trend in Apple's tablet sales will be clearer in the next holiday quarter when we can compare comparable quarters.



Google posts activation figures because that includes everytime a user tries a new Rom and sets up their account. I like Google and have both an Android phone and tablet but activation numbers are not accurate. I have put maybe 50 Roms on my phone and 3 on my new tablet. I am not 53 people but I am counted as such. It is like Microsoft licenses. I bought a refurbished laptop it came with Windows I use Linux I am still counted as a Windows user even though I don't use the OS that came with the machine.

Reply Score: 1

kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

You sir, cannot count. If you take the sales numbers (from IDC say) over the last several years, globally, you will find there were almost as many Android tablets sold as iPad's.

So, in theory, there is now as many Android tablets out in the wild as there are iPad's.

Usage should therefore be about the same, right? But usage is not the same, iPad's are 10x more prevelant on the Web then Android tablets.

So either the sales numbers are inflated in favor of Android or the usage numbers are inflated in favor of the iPad.

Logic, it's good for you, try it.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Something seems a bit off...
by JAlexoid on Sat 27th Jul 2013 18:26 UTC in reply to "Something seems a bit off..."
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

But given that web surfing seems to be such a core tablet use one would have to ask what are those Android tablet users actually doing with their tablets?


Yep... Like there's nothing to use a tablet for, except web surfing. Now tell me, what percentage of time spent in the tunnels the WiFi is visible? Clearly iPad users on the tube are not using iPads for web browsing... So answer this "what are those iPad tablet users actually doing with their tablets?"

PS: Thanks for reminding that London is a city with high cost of living, where iPhone/iPad/other premium product has more consumers. London also has a lot of Michelin star chefs and very expensive cars.

Reply Score: 4

License?
by judgen on Fri 26th Jul 2013 21:02 UTC
judgen
Member since:
2006-07-12

Is it still true that Microsoft earns more from a android licensee that has agreed to pay the extortion money than a wp8 licensee?

Reply Score: 4

RE: License?
by Nelson on Fri 26th Jul 2013 21:13 UTC in reply to "License?"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

In aggregate they likely make more money, but on a per-device basis its probably very close.

Reply Score: 3

RE: License?
by fatjoe on Fri 26th Jul 2013 23:26 UTC in reply to "License?"
fatjoe Member since:
2010-01-12

If that ever was true, you would have seen it in their financial reports.


Microsoft would love everyone to believe this licensing FUD, but the whole issue is probably just a normal cross-licensing program with very little money changing hands.

Edited 2013-07-26 23:28 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: License?
by Nelson on Fri 26th Jul 2013 23:40 UTC in reply to "RE: License?"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Microsoft does report their IP related income, its lumped into the Windows Phone division since it subsidizes Windows Phone development.

If an Android device is sold, there's a high chance that the money goes directly towards financing the development of its competitor.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: License?
by fatjoe on Sat 27th Jul 2013 08:56 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: License?"
fatjoe Member since:
2010-01-12

They still have an obligation towards shareholder to account for IP revenue. Analysts have predicted that Google pays xxx dollars per sold phone, but these numbers are not backed by Microsoft revenue reports, you can look it up yourself!

Edited 2013-07-27 08:56 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: License?
by Nelson on Sat 27th Jul 2013 11:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: License?"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

So Microsoft reports the revenue, just not the conditions under which the licenses are sold, which is customary.

However for the intents and purposes of the OPs original point, the question can be answered adequately.

The great myth, and some Android fans do use it as a sort of safety blanket, is that there's some sort of quid pro quo going on in these licensing deals.

Reply Score: 2

No title necessary
by wocowboy on Sat 27th Jul 2013 10:37 UTC
wocowboy
Member since:
2006-06-01

The latest "Apple is doomed" article, man these are getting boring.....and very predictable. Android makers come out with 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, and potentially 21-inch tablets, most of which are crap according to respected reviews, while Apple makes 7-inch and 10-inch models that get rave reviews, and Thom jumps on every chance to say that Apple is finished. Same old same ole, I'm tired of it. Of course the Android people are going to sell a boatload of tablets when they make dozens of different sizes and models compared to the two really good ones that Apple makes. It doesn't take rocket science to figure that out. Driving down to the bottom of the market doesn't make much money when you're putting out a dozen different crappy tablets. Not all of them are crap, but most are.

Reply Score: 1

RE: No title necessary
by Thom_Holwerda on Sat 27th Jul 2013 14:34 UTC in reply to "No title necessary"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

"and Thom jumps on every chance to say that Apple is finished."

Could you please point out to where I say "Apple is finished"?

I eagerly await your reply.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: No title necessary
by tupp on Sat 27th Jul 2013 19:28 UTC in reply to "RE: No title necessary"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

Could you please point out to where I say "Apple is finished"?

I would guess that one would find the link to that statement somewhere in
www.realitydistortionfield.com/sacrilege/t_holwerda/heresy/

Edited 2013-07-27 19:45 UTC

Reply Score: 2