Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 15th Apr 2006 16:52 UTC, submitted by JCooper
Windows Microsoft estimates it lost about $14 billion last year to software piracy - and those may prove to be the most lucrative sales never made. Although the world's largest software maker spends millions of dollars annually to combat illegal copying and distribution of its products, critics allege - and Microsoft acknowledges - that piracy sometimes helps the company establish itself in emerging markets and fend off threats from free open-source programs.
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I bet over half isn't "piracy"
by Robocoastie on Sat 15th Apr 2006 18:18 UTC
Robocoastie
Member since:
2005-09-15

I bet over half of that figure is NOT "piracy", at least the way most of us see it. MSFT considers using your copy of windows on another machine even when the original has been cannabalized or used as parts (thus you still only have one computer) as "piracy". So when they use the word it's a bunch of FUD to scare congress into being on their side.

Reply Score: 5

postmodern Member since:
2006-01-27

It's piracy as how the company defines it. They set the limits of acceptable use, within the accepted practices/rights of consumers of course. What we may consider acceptable may conflict with what the company defines in their EULA.

Reply Score: 1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"What we may consider acceptable may conflict with what the company defines in their EULA."

EULA's arent legal documents and consequently cant be legally enforced, at least not in sane countries.

Reply Score: 2

Windows main customers are...
by mOOzilla on Sat 15th Apr 2006 18:23 UTC
mOOzilla
Member since:
2006-04-11

.. OEM's and they pay up. MS's main application and server customers are Businesses not "consumers".

Reply Score: 4

...
by Mitarai on Sat 15th Apr 2006 18:24 UTC
Mitarai
Member since:
2005-07-28

Piracy helped psx one to beat N64 and put Sony as the #1 game console seller and have done the same for Microsoft.

Reply Score: 5

Why Pirate...
by Jon Dough on Sat 15th Apr 2006 18:34 UTC
Jon Dough
Member since:
2005-11-30

...When you can get many GNU/Linux distros, and many application programs, for free? Heck, Canonical will send you all the Ubuntu CD's you could possibly want!

Reply Score: 5

RE: Why Pirate...
by Mitarai on Sat 15th Apr 2006 18:37 UTC in reply to "Why Pirate..."
Mitarai Member since:
2005-07-28

When a pirated copy of Autocad or a pirated copy on Visual Studio 2005 runs natively in Linux maybe.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Why Pirate...
by Dark_Knight on Sat 15th Apr 2006 19:18 UTC in reply to "RE: Why Pirate..."
Dark_Knight Member since:
2005-07-10

Mitarai,

Re: When a pirated copy of Autocad or a pirated copy on Visual Studio 2005 runs natively in Linux maybe.

While I don't agree with piracy I do believe you may be in need of some help understanding what software for "Software for 3D/2D Artists, Designers, etc." is available on Linux.

http://www.linuxforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53452

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Why Pirate...
by Mitarai on Sat 15th Apr 2006 23:22 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Why Pirate..."
Mitarai Member since:
2005-07-28

I didn't saw Autocad nor Visual Studio 2005 in that list.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Why Pirate...
by raver31 on Sun 16th Apr 2006 10:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Why Pirate..."
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

pay for them, sponger.

your pirating is costing all of us money, when we have to pay extra for your pirating

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Why Pirate...
by Robert Claypool on Mon 17th Apr 2006 01:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Why Pirate..."
Robert Claypool Member since:
2006-04-17

Real convincing, I see all the pirates going out and getting legal copies.

Er, no, not really, no, I don't think you've convinced them at all, and they even probably think that they aren't responsible for the price of software in the world at all, and to any extent they care about your missive, they're just annoyed at you.

If you were to switch to a free open source alternative, you wouldn't be out any money, so how is the pirating costing you money, again?

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Why Pirate...
by raver31 on Mon 17th Apr 2006 07:27 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Why Pirate..."
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

How is a pirate costing me money ? It is a thing called "perception". A software producer will think that he needs to keep the cost of the software high, so he will still be able to cover his costs if a few people legally buy his software. He knows his software will get pirated by low-life spongers, so he has to cover his own back. To do that, he keeps the cost high.

Now, his wonder piece of software might never get pirated, and he sells every copy in use, but when an update comes, the price is still so high, because the author has the idea that there are many more copies in use than he has sold, so to cover his costs, he needs to keep the price high etc..

so, there you have the answer... pirates do cost money to people who do it legally.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Why Pirate...
by WorknMan on Sat 15th Apr 2006 20:14 UTC in reply to "Why Pirate..."
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

...When you can get many GNU/Linux distros, and many application programs, for free?

Umm, because most of the Windows apps people are pirating are much bettter than what comes for free on Linux.

Anyway, if you think pirating is a Windows-only thing, why not ask the folks who hang out at alt.binaries.warez.linux how they feel about the subject?

Reply Score: 4

Why pirate..
by mOOzilla on Sat 15th Apr 2006 18:36 UTC
mOOzilla
Member since:
2006-04-11

Because windows is where the Apps are.

Why do people rob banks? Because thats where the money is.

Reply Score: 3

Stupid estimation
by mkools on Sat 15th Apr 2006 18:37 UTC
mkools
Member since:
2005-10-11

'Microsoft estimates it lost about $14 billion last year to software piracy'

Stupid estimation, if there were no pirated copy's of Windows available I would never spend a few hunderd dollars on a legal one, instead I would go out and find me a free alternative like Linux and I think many people will, so these numbers are really non-saying.

Reply Score: 3

v Why pirate..
by mOOzilla on Sat 15th Apr 2006 18:38 UTC
RE: Why pirate..
by jessta on Sun 16th Apr 2006 12:43 UTC in reply to "Why pirate.."
jessta Member since:
2005-08-17

Which distrobution?

Reply Score: 1

14 billion lost is NOT REALLY LOST
by mOOzilla on Sat 15th Apr 2006 18:39 UTC
mOOzilla
Member since:
2006-04-11

because they never would get it in the first place.

Manipulation of stastics.

Reply Score: 5

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

because they never would get it in the first place.

How do you KNOW that? I would argue that they would at least get SOME of that money, if people weren't able to pirate Windows...

Reply Score: 0

skingers6894 Member since:
2005-08-10

This is a very good point. $14 Billion worth of illegal Windows licenses could be spun to represent users lost to Linux or Mac OSX.

If those users could not pirate Windows then they might opt for a free OS instead like Linux.

or

If those users had to PAY for Windows then they might take another look at OS X instead.

Put the stats in the machine and push "spin".

Reply Score: 1

Is it really theft?
by mOOzilla on Sat 15th Apr 2006 18:43 UTC
mOOzilla
Member since:
2006-04-11

I have bought a laptop, which bundles with an OEM license of Windows XP Pro, I install a downloaded copy of XP Pro retail so I dont get the OEM crap installed and use my valid license. Is that really theft? I think not.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Is it really theft?
by mkools on Sat 15th Apr 2006 18:47 UTC in reply to "Is it really theft?"
mkools Member since:
2005-10-11

Most laptops come with restorecd's which install all the crap, if you would have downloaded a clean OEM version from The Net you could still use your legal laptop serial number.

So yes you are a thief, but to yourself and not to MS.
Now you are running an illegal copy of XP and your legal OEM version which you payed for is unused.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Is it really theft?
by dylansmrjones on Sat 15th Apr 2006 19:53 UTC in reply to "RE: Is it really theft?"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

It's not theft according to danish law. It merely counts as patching a product, you have bought a license for.

Perfectly legal (but probably not in the US).

Reply Score: 1

RE: Is it really theft?
by Al2001 on Sat 15th Apr 2006 23:34 UTC in reply to "Is it really theft?"
Al2001 Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes OEM keys don't work with retail versions.

If you don't want the "crap" why not just start the install from the I386 folder?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Is it really theft?
by Soulbender on Mon 17th Apr 2006 03:41 UTC in reply to "Is it really theft?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"Is that really theft?"

No, it's not theft. It may be copyright infringement, license violation or something similar but under no circumstance is it theft.

Reply Score: 2

v Clean OEM LOL good one.
by mOOzilla on Sat 15th Apr 2006 18:50 UTC
Anti Piracy
by thecwin on Sat 15th Apr 2006 19:13 UTC
thecwin
Member since:
2006-01-04

Imagine they succeed with prevention of piracy, infact, I hope they do. I don't need any MS stuff.

What really gets to me is when people give me an Office Word. Publisher or Excel file, and then when I say that I can't use it, they say "Why don't you get rid of all that linux crap and just pirate Windows/Office like a normal person?". Even then, Word and Excel files aren't a great problem to use, I just refuse to communicate in non-open standards.

I'm also hoping WINE and Linux's 3D drivers improve to the point where Windows isn't required for most gaming, then maybe I'll be able to expand my selection of games beyond the likes of Unreal and WoW.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Anti Piracy
by flanque on Sun 16th Apr 2006 00:35 UTC in reply to "Anti Piracy"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

Whilst I respect your choice not to use MS Office, I just cannot understand why people refuse to use it just because it's not "open". For my money, too many people use the Microsoft document formats for them to be ignored. MS Office wasn't shoved down my throat in any way either. This suite helped improve communication and business long before the open source community had anything near good enough.

Perhaps newer versions don't offer the great leaps and bounds folks wish for, but like it or not my view is that MS Office is such a popular product because it is far superior to anything else available.

If I were starting up a business I can assure you that MS Office would be an absolute must have. It's too indespencible to ignore merely it's not open.

We have to keep in mind, Microsoft is a business and their motivation is to make money. That's what businesses are designed to do.

MS Office is a fantastic suite of software.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Anti Piracy
by raver31 on Sun 16th Apr 2006 10:30 UTC in reply to "RE: Anti Piracy"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

I refuse to use Microsoft document formats too. I will only ever use OpenOffice to communicate with people, either in PDF, ODF, or RTF formats.

If they do not like it, stuff them.

I have sent out CVs (resumes), to a few companies, who returned them asking for them in DOC format. I know they mean Microsoft Word format, so I always reply back with the same statement.

"If you are unprepared to find a way to open my CV, I am unprepared to work for a company with blinkered outlooks"

It always works....


Now, my brother on the other hand. He applied for a job with his CV in MSWorks format, it is always returned as MS Word will not open MS Works formatted documents.... Or the people he sends it to, do not know how to import.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Anti Piracy
by sappyvcv on Sun 16th Apr 2006 13:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Anti Piracy"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

You'll turn down a job because they use MS Office and request your resume in .doc?

Wow, just wow. I don't get wy people make software about politics. If a company uses a certain tool, then I'll use that tool if I work for them r want to work for them.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Anti Piracy
by raver31 on Sun 16th Apr 2006 20:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Anti Piracy"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

No, I said I would not be prepared to work for a company if they would not bother to find a way to open any attachements I send them,

I will never work for a company who has trained monkeys as staff.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Anti Piracy
by sappyvcv on Mon 17th Apr 2006 00:26 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Anti Piracy"
sappyvcv Member since:
2005-07-06

That's just HR you're dealing with, not the whole company. For all you know, HR is a bunch of doofs and the rest of the company is great to work for. Seems myopic to me.

Reply Score: 1

v RE[3]: Anti Piracy
by flanque on Sun 16th Apr 2006 11:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Anti Piracy"
RE[4]: Anti Piracy
by raver31 on Sun 16th Apr 2006 20:45 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Anti Piracy"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

if that reply was for my post about sending CVs, I suggest you read it again,,,, and pay attention this time

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Anti Piracy
by flanque on Sun 16th Apr 2006 23:17 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Anti Piracy"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

It was and I did pay attention. Think about it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Anti Piracy
by thecwin on Fri 21st Apr 2006 14:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Anti Piracy"
thecwin Member since:
2006-01-04

I don't really care if MSO is open or not.. I just care if the file formats people use are open.

MSO is a good piece of software, it's the piece of software that keeps Windows in most businesses (though that can be attributed to it's non-interop too). However, for many businesses now, the opensource software (OOo, Abiword/Gnumeric, etc.) is suitable for nearly every user's system.

Reply Score: 1

Lets face it
by SlackerJack on Sun 16th Apr 2006 04:59 UTC
SlackerJack
Member since:
2005-11-12

Windows users pirate software all the time, I mean how many people brought Photoshop CS/CS2 to do some simple photo manipulation?, how many people brought MS Office just to write a letter?

Photoshop, MSOffice, web design apps are the most pirated software on Windows, whats even more sad is that they compare it to OSS claiming it's free the same. If people couldn't pirate software on Windows then Linux would be much more attractive, I think thats why Microsoft have done nothing to stop it.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Lets face it
by Hands on Mon 17th Apr 2006 18:36 UTC in reply to "Lets face it"
Hands Member since:
2005-06-30

I have been asked by friends and family to either show them how to get pirated software or simply to give them pirated copies of software more times than I can remember. Before many of the open source applications matured, the alternatives really weren't very good in most cases. So, I could understand the request.

I can't say that I ever really felt bad about explaining how they could get some pirated software for a few reasons. First, I would always tell them about other cheaper options. Second, they had the choice to use the information I gave them to legally obtain a less-expensive alternative, and if they chose to obtain pirated software, the instructions I gave them could be obtained pretty easily anywhere. Third, if they didn't get the software, it would most likely mean that eventually I would end up being asked to do something for them on my machine with legal software anyway, or they would go to someone else who had the necessary software (possibly pirated). So, rarely was a sale lost because one of my frieds or family knew how (and possibly chose) to pirate software.

If anything, pirated software added to the convenience of family and friends so that they had more time and resources to contribute to the economy in other ways.

I'm very grateful that it's now even easier to persuade family and friends to use legal software because there are such great, free open source alternatives. I rarely hear a request for pirated software now. I'd imagine that one of the reasons that pirated software has declined is because other alternatives are so much better.

Reply Score: 1

Re.: Flanque's post
by tilt on Sun 16th Apr 2006 05:55 UTC
tilt
Member since:
2005-08-09

flanque wote " MS Office wasn't shoved down my throat in any way either."

It is being shoved mine every day. I am a job hunter and ebery recruiter I speak with insists I send them a Word DOC resume. I ask them if I can send them a PDF file instead and they say "No, buy MS Office, it only costs $199 (or whatever) and send us a Word doc.". Now, is this discrimination or not?

Cheers

Reply Score: 2

RE: Re.: Flanque's post
by Kroc on Sun 16th Apr 2006 10:16 UTC in reply to "Re.: Flanque's post"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Download OO.o and save a .doc?

Reply Score: 2

R e.: Flanque's post
by tilt on Sun 16th Apr 2006 05:57 UTC
tilt
Member since:
2005-08-09

Sheesh, I have to learn how to edit my posts for typos after I finish posting!

My post should read "shoved down mine" instead of "shoved mine" and "every" instead of "ebery".

Cheers

Reply Score: 1

v RE: Lets face it
by kaiwai on Sun 16th Apr 2006 10:09 UTC
RE[4]: Anti Piracy
by captain_knobjockey on Sun 16th Apr 2006 20:41 UTC
captain_knobjockey
Member since:
2005-08-23

Typical Microsoft fanboy... You did not even bother to read his post correctly did you ?

He said he sent HIS cvs out as PDF, ODF or RTF..... and it was his BROTHER that used the non-standard MSWorks format.


I think the point he was making had more to do with the laziness of some users, not even trying to find a way to look at files.

Reply Score: 2

Comment
by aGNUstic on Mon 17th Apr 2006 16:56 UTC
aGNUstic
Member since:
2005-07-28

People will continue to pirate, a criminal and deviant activity, if they do not fear of apprehension and punishment.
Norms, laws, and enforcement in third-world or poor countries are lax.
I think all Windows pirates should be hunted down, shot, their properties siezed and their children placed into servitude until the license fees are paid in full.

-joke-

Reply Score: 1

FOSS software?
by emokid156 on Wed 19th Apr 2006 15:38 UTC
emokid156
Member since:
2006-04-19

My Dell PC came with a copy of Windows XP Home Edition. It also came with Paint Shop Pro. The first thing I did was remove it and replace it with The Gimp.

The second thing I did was disable IE (by entering a fake proxy server and disabling changing proxy settings), and installing Firefox.

Then I uninstalled Microsoft Works and installed OpenOffice.

Open source applications have come so far in the past three years. For building web sites, all I use is text editor Kate and the Gimp. Why pay for DreamWeaver?

Reply Score: 1