Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 8th Aug 2006 06:02 UTC
Mac OS X Mac OS Forge, a new community site hosted by Apple, is being created to support WebKit and other open source projects focused on Mac OS X, especially those looking to transition from OpenDarwin.org. New buildable kernel sources for Intel-based Macs are posted there as well, finally answering the complaints from the community. Other than this, Xcode 3 now includes Sun's Dtrace.
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Poor design for an Apple project
by timothyha on Tue 8th Aug 2006 06:18 UTC
timothyha
Member since:
2005-11-10

Maybe the site is very new, the navigation and design is so poor. But the logo is Mac-ish, which is good :-)

And the news itself is good, of course!

Reply Score: 1

Design...
by jesu on Tue 8th Aug 2006 06:26 UTC
jesu
Member since:
2005-06-30

Design is quite meager, comming from Apple, I'd say.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Design...
by vikramsharma on Tue 8th Aug 2006 06:47 UTC in reply to "Design..."
vikramsharma Member since:
2005-07-06

You are right, but it could also be percieved as minimalistic which to me and some others might be more useful than a flashy website.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Design...
by postmodern on Tue 8th Aug 2006 07:26 UTC in reply to "Design..."
postmodern Member since:
2006-01-27

I'd say the design is quite good. What I interpret from the site is that it is a place of work, development, code and progress, not lickable buttons or other such window dressing. You get what you are looking at. The logo with the metal grill and the minimalist look drives home the 'realism' of development, in that the design succeeds.

Although some of their pages are missing a .css meta-link.

http://macosforge.org/subversion.html
http://bonjour.macosforge.org/sources.html
http://bonjour.macosforge.org/contact.html
http://kernel.macosforge.org/sources.html
http://kernel.macosforge.org/contact.html
http://launchd.macosforge.org/sources.html
http://launchd.macosforge.org/contact.html

I'm still a little confused on how this site is "dedicated to supporting the developer community surrounding open source components specific to Mac OS X" when it appears to just be a WordPress blog with Trac installed along-side. What other features does MacOSForge offer, did they really need to add the "Forge"? We shall see how the site progresses.

Edited 2006-08-08 07:39

Reply Score: 1

v !!!
by Hakime on Tue 8th Aug 2006 06:28 UTC
RE: !!!
by red_devel on Tue 8th Aug 2006 07:00 UTC in reply to "!!!"
red_devel Member since:
2006-03-30

So many people writting so much bullshit out there, all based on rumors and non-verified facts. At the end they look like stupid......

Or maybe the backlash and all the "bullshit" people wrote made the folks at Apple realize just how much the community really does care about their support of open source. I mean statementslike "the Intel kernel sources haven't been released" and "OpenDarwin is shutting down", aren't really bullshit....those were facts just a short time ago.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: !!!
by Tuishimi on Tue 8th Aug 2006 07:05 UTC in reply to "RE: !!!"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

I doubt it was the backlash. More likely it was time they needed to secure proprietary code and make the necessary modifications (for example, to XNU) to be able to share their code.

Reply Score: 5

Amazing how dense some folks are...
by tyrione on Tue 8th Aug 2006 06:39 UTC
tyrione
Member since:
2005-11-21

to think Apple was pulling the plug. It's fun to watch.

Reply Score: 3

Ronald Vos Member since:
2005-07-06

to think Apple was pulling the plug. It's fun to watch.

Hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it?

Reply Score: 4

From the creators of DTrace
by taos on Tue 8th Aug 2006 06:42 UTC
taos
Member since:
2005-11-16
Jumping the gun
by vikramsharma on Tue 8th Aug 2006 06:45 UTC
vikramsharma
Member since:
2005-07-06

People are so quick to jump the gun, zealots have always given Apple a bad name, doesn't matter whether they (zealots) were pro-apple or anti-apple.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Jumping the gun
by postmodern on Tue 8th Aug 2006 07:49 UTC in reply to "Jumping the gun"
postmodern Member since:
2006-01-27

People are also too quick to shower Apple in praise for projects just announced or started. Then again each OS has these types of people, eternal critics/fans.

Reply Score: 2

RE
by Kroc on Tue 8th Aug 2006 06:49 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

So, will there be any retractions? I doubt it.

Reply Score: 1

whole kernel released?
by amilcarodonte on Tue 8th Aug 2006 06:55 UTC
amilcarodonte
Member since:
2006-02-07

From the XNU-intel project: "Several changes were made in order to publish the kernel (xnu) sources. As a result, the kernel built from these sources differs from the one found in the 10.4.7 software update. In order to accommodate these changes, several kernel extensions were also modified and must be downloaded and installed in order to run a kernel built from these sources on Mac OS X 10.4.7 for Intel."

what does that mean? were some parts reserved from public release?

Reply Score: 5

RE: whole kernel released?
by Tuishimi on Tue 8th Aug 2006 06:57 UTC in reply to "whole kernel released?"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

I would say "yes".

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: whole kernel released?
by iskios on Tue 8th Aug 2006 12:41 UTC in reply to "whole kernel released?"
iskios Member since:
2005-07-06

Like Solaris, Linux, etc. To release the kernel Apple has to make sure no proprietary licensed material is included. We don't want SCO coming after Apple now do we?

Many closed source OSes which have users clamoring for Open Sourcing, such as OS/2, face similar problems with the parent company facing the monumental task of stripping anything licensed from third parties out.

OS X's kernel is not GPL, so it may include as much closed source material as Apple deems necessary where Linux has to release kernels that are all GPL or possibly violate the GPL itself, which is why Novel made news recently when they decided to exclude non GPL modules in their releases.

Reply Score: 4

timing
by mikesum32 on Tue 8th Aug 2006 07:02 UTC
mikesum32
Member since:
2005-10-22

I don't want to start any conspiracy theories, but does anyone else find the timing of this odd?

Right after opendarwin dies, suddenly Apple releases the source.


from the article
"Several changes were made in order to publish the kernel (xnu) sources. As a result, the kernel built from these sources differs from the one found in the 10.4.7 software update. In order to accommodate these changes, several kernel extensions were also modified and must be downloaded and installed in order to run a kernel built from these sources on Mac OS X 10.4.7 for Intel."

Is this just Rosetta ? Anything else?

Reply Score: 2

RE: timing
by Tuishimi on Tue 8th Aug 2006 07:07 UTC in reply to "timing"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

Heh. Whatever it is/was, I am guessing it was somewhat well planned, given they seem to like to control their destiny with a heavy rudder.

Hmmm, did that analogy make sense?

Reply Score: 2

RE: timing
by snowbender on Tue 8th Aug 2006 09:57 UTC in reply to "timing"
snowbender Member since:
2006-05-04

I don't want to start any conspiracy theories, but does anyone else find the timing of this odd?

Right after opendarwin dies, suddenly Apple releases the source.


I don't think the timing is odd at all. Currently WWDC06 is going on. Apple didn't announce anything really surprising during Jobs' keynote, I believe there's only the new MacPro, which was to be expected, and the Leopard preview, but no other new products. So, they probably have saved up those things for now.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: timing
by mallard on Tue 8th Aug 2006 13:35 UTC in reply to "timing"
mallard Member since:
2006-01-06

>from the article
>"Several changes were made in order to publish the
>kernel (xnu) sources. As a result, the kernel built from
>these sources differs from the one found in the 10.4.7
>software update. In order to accommodate these changes,
>several kernel extensions were also modified and must be
>downloaded and installed in order to run a kernel built
>from these sources on Mac OS X 10.4.7 for Intel."

>Is this just Rosetta ? Anything else?

From http://kernel.macosforge.org/intel-build-instructions.html

The open source kernel for Mac OS X for Intel is based on the kernel for 64-bit Mac Pro computers. On these machines, the kernel sources should work AS IS, however on Macintosh computers with 32-bit Intel processors, you must also install several updated kernel extensions.

Reply Score: 2

The design of the site reflects Apples ...
by Anon on Tue 8th Aug 2006 07:20 UTC
Anon
Member since:
2006-01-02

... carefactor towards Open Source.

eg, Zero.


What a pathetic looking website. Why do they even bother?

Reply Score: 0

DevL Member since:
2005-07-06

So you'd rather have a flashy site without source code than a barebones with source code? The site is clearly made by developers for developers - no graphics artists involved.

I think it's great that Apple is relasing kernel code again.

Reply Score: 4

tzine Member since:
2006-01-11

If the corporate Apple goons would have put half the effort into OpenDarwin.org it would still be around.
Not to mention most coporate goons being Apple or Microsoft love the BSD license so they dont have to post source at all.

Reply Score: 0

who cares about the design of the web site
by REM2000 on Tue 8th Aug 2006 08:08 UTC
REM2000
Member since:
2006-07-25

you wanted the source code, apple has given you the source code.

Now however a lot of people seem to be moaning about the web site design!!?? Concentrate on the source code, ive seen plenty of excellent projects with crappy web sites.

Reply Score: 5

Alleister Member since:
2006-05-29

Noone is moaning about the design, it is just quite surprisingly different from anything Apple would usually do.
I know what i would think if it was released on an 1st April.

It is ok for the site and its name to suck as long as it would contain usufull code, which has to be proven yet, as i find the descriptions of the kernel-code alarming.

Another point is that it just might be too late since they already annoyed many people who tryed contributing to the kernel on opendarwin.

Don't take this as trolling please, just a tiny bitter taste of reality that taints this interesting developement of events.

Reply Score: 1

Manik Member since:
2005-07-06

See it this way : Simple, fast, effective. Typically Apple.

That looks like a commercial…

Reply Score: 1

WHOISINCHARGE?
by anonymousbrowser on Tue 8th Aug 2006 11:19 UTC
anonymousbrowser
Member since:
2006-04-28

Just for the hell of it some whois

Domain ID:D124426398-LROR
Domain Name:MACOSFORGE.ORG
Created On:13-Jun-2006 18:20:49 UTC
Last Updated On:07-Aug-2006 00:10:27 UTC
Expiration Date:13-Jun-2007 18:20:49 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Go Daddy Software, Inc. (R91-LROR)
Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:GODA-020970848
Registrant Name:Ernest Prabhakar
Registrant Organization:RadicalCentrism.org
Registrant Street1:4812 Percheron Drive
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Elk Grove
Registrant State/Province:California
Registrant Postal Code:95757
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.4089743075
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:drernie@mac.com
Admin ID:GODA-220970848
Admin Name:Ernest Prabhakar
Admin Organization:RadicalCentrism.org
Admin Street1:4812 Percheron Drive
Admin Street2:
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Elk Grove
Admin State/Province:California
Admin Postal Code:95757
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.4089743075
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:drernie@mac.com
Tech ID:GODA-120970848
Tech Name:Ernest Prabhakar
Tech Organization:RadicalCentrism.org
Tech Street1:4812 Percheron Drive
Tech Street2:
Tech Street3:
Tech City:Elk Grove
Tech State/Province:California
Tech Postal Code:95757
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.4089743075
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:drernie@mac.com
Name Server:NS1.MACOSFORGE.ORG
Name Server:NS2.MACOSFORGE.ORG

It does seem odd that the website looks so rushed, as though they were camped out at OSNews listening to discussions about Apple's Open Source plans, i would expect Apple to make things look a little more polished before letting the public know about them.

Reply Score: 1

RE: WHOISINCHARGE?
by Ronald Vos on Tue 8th Aug 2006 12:00 UTC in reply to "WHOISINCHARGE?"
Ronald Vos Member since:
2005-07-06

However: they've owned the domain for almost 2 months now.

Reply Score: 1

Announced?
by PowerMacX on Tue 8th Aug 2006 13:02 UTC
PowerMacX
Member since:
2005-11-06

Has Apple officially announced this? Some people are calling the site "minimalistic" but while it's true it has that whole "empty white page" Google look, to me it looks more like "not ready yet" ;)

For instance, the CSS in the subversion page is broken at the moment.

edit: spelling

Edited 2006-08-08 13:05

Reply Score: 1

Mac OS Forge
by ThanhLy on Tue 8th Aug 2006 13:16 UTC
ThanhLy
Member since:
2006-03-14

For those of you knocking the Mac OS Forge web site...

Relax, I don't think it's an offical Apple web site.

From Network Solutions' WHOIS:

Registrant Organization:RadicalCentrism.org
Registrant City:Elk Grove
Registrant State/Province:California


So it's more likely a real community web site started by a Mac user, not Apple the company.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Mac OS Forge
by ThanhLy on Tue 8th Aug 2006 13:16 UTC in reply to "Mac OS Forge"
ThanhLy Member since:
2006-03-14

Rats, someone beat me to it.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Mac OS Forge
by PowerMacX on Tue 8th Aug 2006 13:30 UTC in reply to "Mac OS Forge"
PowerMacX Member since:
2005-11-06

Could be, but remember this post from Apple's discussion list?
http://lists.apple.com/archives/Fed-talk/2006/May/msg00105.html

"Ernest N. Prabhakar, Ph.D.
Product Manager, Open Source & Open Standards; Mac OS X Product Marketing"


Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Drernie

Reply Score: 2

RE: Mac OS Forge
by ormandj on Tue 8th Aug 2006 19:08 UTC in reply to "Mac OS Forge"
ormandj Member since:
2005-10-09

Wrong. It is hosted/run by Apple.

> host www.macosforge.org
www.macosforge.org has address 17.254.17.105
> whois 17.254.17.105

OrgName: Apple Computer, Inc.
OrgID: APPLEC-3
Address: 20740 Valley Green Drive, MS32E
City: Cupertino
StateProv: CA
PostalCode: 95014
Country: US

NetRange: 17.0.0.0 - 17.255.255.255
CIDR: 17.0.0.0/8
NetName: APPLE-WWNET
NetHandle: NET-17-0-0-0-1
Parent:
NetType: Direct Assignment
NameServer: NSERVER.APPLE.COM
NameServer: NSERVER2.APPLE.COM
NameServer: NSERVER.EURO.APPLE.COM
NameServer: NSERVER.ASIA.APPLE.COM
Comment:
RegDate: 1990-04-16
Updated: 2000-05-23

RTechHandle: ZA42-ARIN
RTechName: Apple Computer, Inc.
RTechPhone: +1-408-974-7777
RTechEmail: Apple-NOC@apple.com

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2006-08-07 19:10
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.
>

Reply Score: 0

RAAAAAAAGE
by Bonus on Tue 8th Aug 2006 14:00 UTC
Bonus
Member since:
2005-12-23

Ok well this is great. At least they have a nice feedback center at their BLOG. I think they should release more info often or I wouldnt rage at them so much. I still don't use ITunes since it's not on Linux.

Reply Score: 0

RE: RAAAAAAAGE
by vikramsharma on Tue 8th Aug 2006 18:52 UTC in reply to "RAAAAAAAGE"
vikramsharma Member since:
2005-07-06

I do share your disappointment regarding absence of iTunes and QuickTime on Linux and FreeBSD. I would love to release binaries of both QuickTime and iTunes Linux and FreeBSD, well in a perfect world that might happen.

Reply Score: 1

Apple Mailing List
by PowerMacX on Tue 8th Aug 2006 15:57 UTC
PowerMacX
Member since:
2005-11-06
The only big news is...
by suslik on Tue 8th Aug 2006 16:41 UTC
suslik
Member since:
2005-07-27

The only really big news is:
- Randrzvu - Apache license
- iCal server - Apache license.

Finally, that "free as in free drugs" imbacilism of Apple's "open source" license will end.

As for "watch the amazing vanishing kernel appear again to woo the pub this time of season" - that's BSD license for ya. Better get used to it.

Reply Score: 1

Haha sure
by Bringbackanonposting on Wed 9th Aug 2006 06:17 UTC
Bringbackanonposting
Member since:
2005-11-16

Yes sure thing. Come over to my place and house your software here so I can steal it easier, call it something different, put a nice front end on it and call it INNOVATION! YEEEAAAAH!!!! SHOW ME THE MONEY!

Reply Score: 0