Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 15th Jun 2007 22:14 UTC
SuSE, openSUSE OpenSUSE 10.3 alpha 5 has been released. "Linux 2.6.22 rc4; reduced size and cleaned up dependencies of some packages; glibc 2.6; Emacs 22.1; OpenOffice.Org 2.2.1 rc3; lots of package renames and splits to create smaller systems and allow a one CD installation; two one CD installation media: A GNOME CD and a KDE CD."
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1 CD!
by Angel Blue01 on Sat 16th Jun 2007 00:06 UTC
Angel Blue01
Member since:
2006-11-01

Hurray! 1CD at last, love the distro but the media's too big for most computer, since they only have CD-ROMs/RWs.

Reply Score: 4

RE: 1 CD!
by abhaysahai on Sat 16th Jun 2007 01:44 UTC in reply to "1 CD!"
abhaysahai Member since:
2005-10-20

SUSE had 1 CD install since a long time.
Please check
http://en.opensuse.org/1_CD_install and
http://en.opensuse.org/SUPER
However, they were varient of SUSE and not the mainstream SUSE release.
This will be the first time they will promote the single CD install as part of mainstream SUSE release.

Over the time we have seen single CD distro gainig on popularity. For instance Ubuntu nad PCLinuxOS are both single CD and are at the top spots on Distrowatch.
Lets welcome SUSE to the group.

Edited 2007-06-16 01:46

Reply Score: 3

RE: 1 CD!
by grat on Sat 16th Jun 2007 02:03 UTC in reply to "1 CD!"
grat Member since:
2006-02-02

Hurray! 1CD at last, love the distro but the media's too big for most computer, since they only have CD-ROMs/RWs.

SuSE isn't really designed for an obsolete computer. It's large, it's feature packed, and it's designed to run on modern computers.

DVD-RW drives can be bought for under $40 USD, and DVD-ROM for less than $20, so as far as I'm concerned, SuSE has been a single disk install for a long time.

Now if they'd just fix Evolution under KDE. *sigh*

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: 1 CD!
by halfmanhalfamazing on Sat 16th Jun 2007 14:47 UTC in reply to "RE: 1 CD!"
halfmanhalfamazing Member since:
2005-07-23

---------Now if they'd just fix Evolution under KDE. *sigh*----------

Agreed. I think they should port Evo to QT.(which I know is a little further than you were thinking, this is just wishful thinking on my part)

I'd also like to see Firefox gain QT support. QTFox = :-)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: 1 CD!
by mmebane on Sat 16th Jun 2007 20:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: 1 CD!"
mmebane Member since:
2005-07-06

"I'd also like to see Firefox gain QT support. QTFox = :-)"

That's actually been started a couple of times, but nothing ever came of the attempts.

Most recent attempt: http://dot.kde.org/1094924433/

AFAIK, this eventually broke down due to political issues between the KDE and Mozilla devs, but I'm sure there are things I don't know about.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: 1 CD!
by grat on Sat 16th Jun 2007 22:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: 1 CD!"
grat Member since:
2006-02-02

Agreed. I think they should port Evo to QT.(which I know is a little further than you were thinking, this is just wishful thinking on my part)

One of the nicer things about SuSE is it makes an effort with the default themes to keep gtk/qt consistent.

The biggest problem I have with Evolution under KDE is the keyring issue-- They expect you to be running gnome-keyring, and all of their fallbacks FAIL.

Anyone know if Portland is trying to address kde/gnome keyring issues?

Reply Score: 1

"Most annoying bugs"
by nivanson on Sat 16th Jun 2007 01:37 UTC
nivanson
Member since:
2006-07-13

I am always amazed about the bugs that are listed in OpenSuSE's changelogs as they always contain errors in core stuff such as package management or grub configs!

Reply Score: 2

RE: "Most annoying bugs"
by Anonymous Penguin on Sat 16th Jun 2007 11:35 UTC in reply to ""Most annoying bugs""
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

I am always amazed about the bugs that are listed in OpenSuSE's changelogs as they always contain errors in core stuff such as package management or grub configs!


It is an alpha, for God's sake.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: "Most annoying bugs"
by nivanson on Sun 17th Jun 2007 19:05 UTC in reply to "RE: "Most annoying bugs""
nivanson Member since:
2006-07-13

yeah, all their alphas have the same problems each release.

Reply Score: 1

Not using it
by Ricardo_NY on Sat 16th Jun 2007 03:37 UTC
Ricardo_NY
Member since:
2007-02-12

I will not use it because it comes from a company that is trying to destroy Linux. Yes! It is that simple.

Browser: Opera/8.01 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/3.1.7196/1690; en; U; ssr)

Reply Score: 4

RE: Not using it
by jakesdad on Sat 16th Jun 2007 13:45 UTC in reply to "Not using it"
jakesdad Member since:
2005-12-28

Please explain how they are "destroying" Linux. they adhere to the license... And do more than most when it comes to software for linux.... Please explain the destruction, without using FSF talking points (which are ambiguous and misleading at best).

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Not using it
by netpython on Sat 16th Jun 2007 14:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Not using it"
netpython Member since:
2005-07-06

Well if someone says you are using a product that violates some patents but if you sign some sort of confenant you are safe from whatever legal actions that might follow.

Now especially while the evidence, which patents are being violated by exactly what line of code, is being refused to bring into the spotlight.

That makes us all look rather stupid now does it?
And i haven't even touched the possible implications.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Not using it
by jakesdad on Wed 20th Jun 2007 19:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not using it"
jakesdad Member since:
2005-12-28

You should consider it a continuance of the idemnity that Novell offered already. The deal as I am aware still does not stop MS from sueing Novell or vice versa. Only stops MS from suing you if you are a Novell customer.... Which is how it was when they offered indemnity. They wont defend you if you are using Ubuntu... Only SUSE. Same goes for Redhat, they extend indemnity if you are using another linux distro... only redhat.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Not using it
by deanlinkous on Sat 16th Jun 2007 16:15 UTC in reply to "RE: Not using it"
deanlinkous Member since:
2006-06-19

If microsoft was truly offering us something then wouldnt they simply describe the patents and allow us to pay for those that we want and to remove the ones that were accidents or that we do not feel the need to pay for? That would be a fair patent deal IMO and show they were serious about competing on a fair level.

Honestly, does anyone think it is about something as simple as money. Sure they want linux to become expensive so that it puts them on more of a level playing field but overall that is a small thing. You cannot destroy linux with money. They want to stop it at 2% and the best way to do that is to break what makes it powerful and effective. What makes linux powerful and effective? one word - sharing. Sharing of ALL changes, sharing of ALL code, sharing of the OS with others. How do you break sharing? You simply make it unable to be shared. Now they have it....

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Not using it
by jakesdad on Wed 20th Jun 2007 19:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not using it"
jakesdad Member since:
2005-12-28

You seem to forget, more money goes to Novell than to MS....
They arent offering "you" anything. It's no lawsuits against Novells customers, you are out of the loop. It didnt matter anyway, they offered indemnity to their users. Now they would only have to defend themselves, while you are still protected.

Also more money goes to Novell than to MS. Directory services were Novells bread and butter... Im thinking it was more about that then anything else.

No linux distributor can stop the sharing of Linux like that... Its not Novells/redhats/mandrivas/ubuntus to do like that... It would be Mr. Torvalds call with that. So that is a moot point in my opinion.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Not using it
by shapeshifter on Sat 16th Jun 2007 22:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Not using it"
shapeshifter Member since:
2006-09-19

Please explain how they are "destroying" Linux. they adhere to the license... And do more than most when it comes to software for linux.... Please explain the destruction, without using FSF talking points (which are ambiguous and misleading at best).


The generall idea is that Microsoft is bad.
And so anyone helping and associating with Microsoft is also bad.
Kind if like, bank robbers are bad, if you get caught with them leaving a bank then the cops will treat you correspondingly.
If you can't comprehend this, or/and if you don't accept that Microsoft is bad then I am sorry, I can't help you.
Go to your local computer store and see if you can buy a computer preinstalled with Linux. No? Well, think about it, why that is so.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Not using it
by jakesdad on Wed 20th Jun 2007 19:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not using it"
jakesdad Member since:
2005-12-28

Actually... I can go to walmart and/or order one from Dell...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Not using it
by Soulbender on Mon 18th Jun 2007 05:36 UTC in reply to "RE: Not using it"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"Please explain how they are "destroying" Linux. they adhere to the license"

It's perfectly possible to "destroy" Linux while not breaking the license.
Not saying the mentioned companies are destroying it (I don't use Linux so I have no opinion on the matter) but one has nothing to do with the other.

Reply Score: 2

Software that should be avoided
by Supreme Dragon on Sat 16th Jun 2007 04:16 UTC
Supreme Dragon
Member since:
2007-03-04

Microsoft, MicroSuse, MicroXandros, and MicroLinspire products should be avoided. People should get their software from more trustworthy sources.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Software that should be avoided
by ecruz on Sat 16th Jun 2007 05:22 UTC in reply to "Software that should be avoided"
ecruz Member since:
2007-06-16

You people are so petty in your outlook. Your total hate of microsoft clouds all of your judgement. That is why none of you will ever amount to anything in the world of developing software or business. Pragmatism is a word that you guys never wll be ale to spell, or comprehend.
You, small little men, always will be in your little cubicle, bitching!

And the world will continue growing, Linux will get bigger on the desktop and the lot of you will be bitching about something that is beyong your comprehension becausew of your small minds.

Reply Score: 5

deanlinkous Member since:
2006-06-19

Better a small mind than a big asshole....

I have no hate of microsoft at all. They are not even on my radar unless they move against something that IS on my radar and I am afraid that is what they have done. They moved in on my turf....

Reply Score: 1

cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

"You people are so petty in your outlook. Your total hate of microsoft clouds all of your judgement. That is why none of you will ever amount to anything in the world of developing software or business. Pragmatism is a word that you guys never wll be ale to spell, or comprehend.
You, small little men, always will be in your little cubicle, bitching!

And the world will continue growing, Linux will get bigger on the desktop and the lot of you will be bitching about something that is beyond your comprehension becausew of your small minds."

The irony of not being able to spell Pragmatism, and yet you spell "judgement"; "wll"; "becausew".

I only really point it out because your clearly not using The latest firefox. Why don't you install linux...even if it is OpenSUSE and use the latest firefox rather than IE.

Reply Score: 3

Supreme Dragon Member since:
2007-03-04

You think Linux distros making deals with a vile software dictatorship because of dubious patent threats is good?

Reply Score: 3

apokryphos Member since:
2007-05-05

Then stop using KDE/GNOME, the Linux kernel, OOo and ALSA as well.

Reply Score: 1

Supreme Dragon Member since:
2007-03-04

"Then stop using KDE/GNOME, the Linux kernel, OOo and ALSA as well."

When GPL 3 is finished, it should be fun watching the traitorous distros try to use the software you listed.

Reply Score: 3

shapeshifter Member since:
2006-09-19

Then stop using KDE/GNOME, the Linux kernel, OOo and ALSA as well.


You should say this to Novell.
Because Novell will have lost its right to use these software once they're licensed under GPL3.

Reply Score: 2

elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

" Then stop using KDE/GNOME, the Linux kernel, OOo and ALSA as well.


You should say this to Novell.
Because Novell will have lost its right to use these software once they're licensed under GPL3.
"

Er, right. And which of those exactly have stated that they're going to adopt v3 the moment it is releaesed?

That's right. None of them.

edit: Won't even bring up the fact that the MS/Novell deal is specifically exempted in the v3 license text, because it's an irrelevant point.

Edited 2007-06-17 01:46 UTC

Reply Score: 4

hrmm
by flywheel on Sat 16th Jun 2007 04:20 UTC
flywheel
Member since:
2005-12-28

At least Novell is getting something usefull out of the deal (Remember that it is Novell and not SUSE that has struck a deal) - while Xandros and Linspire, is doing this out of fear.

Reply Score: 4

2
by deanlinkous on Sat 16th Jun 2007 04:51 UTC
deanlinkous
Member since:
2006-06-19

It is too close to novell for me to be comfortable with it! And I liked what I seen too....loved some of it.

Reply Score: 3

RE: 2
by elsewhere on Sun 17th Jun 2007 02:35 UTC in reply to "2"
elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

It is too close to novell for me to be comfortable with it! And I liked what I seen too....loved some of it.


Well then so are the linux kernel, Gnome, KDE and OpenOffice. Because Novell and openSUSE developers contribute heavily to all of them.

Or do you draw the line where it's convenient for you?

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: 2
by deanlinkous on Sun 17th Jun 2007 05:25 UTC in reply to "RE: 2"
deanlinkous Member since:
2006-06-19

Of course I draw it where it is convenient for me. I draw the line AT the taint, projects outside of it do not worry me much. Simple and convenient.

Reply Score: 2

YaST!
by EclipseAgent on Sat 16th Jun 2007 05:29 UTC
EclipseAgent
Member since:
2006-08-04

Can't wait until YasT is actually a solid Package Management Tool..

Reply Score: 2

RE: YaST!
by grat on Sat 16th Jun 2007 22:43 UTC in reply to "YaST!"
grat Member since:
2006-02-02

Can't wait until YasT is actually a solid Package Management Tool..

Keep waiting. YaST is a setup tool, not a package tool (hence the name).

Granted, it interfaces to zypper quite nicely (or zmd, although the database in zmd is completely out of control), but it's primary function is as a control center, not a package management system.

And zypper isn't that bad, actually. I'd like a bit more functionality, but it's getting there.

Reply Score: 2

screenies
by linuxbeta on Sat 16th Jun 2007 06:27 UTC
linuxbeta
Member since:
2007-04-23
RE: screenies
by vonschutter on Mon 18th Jun 2007 14:13 UTC in reply to "screenies"
vonschutter Member since:
2007-04-30

Looks like old screen shots... Clealy the new cool stuff from SLED SP1 are not in there... (logout screens, fast user switching, etc...)I wonder if they are going to merge all that stuff in to the SUSE version?

Reply Score: 1

REMF
Member since:
2006-02-05

you won't be missed.

Reply Score: 4

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

you won't be missed.

Well, one thing Suse/Novell do seem to be missing is customers.

Reply Score: 3

Please boycott Suse and Novell
by shapeshifter on Sat 16th Jun 2007 09:08 UTC
shapeshifter
Member since:
2006-09-19

This company has always been greedy, selfish and badly managed.
Let them keep and run Suse to the ground, we have other 500+ distros to choose from.

Reply Score: 1

apokryphos Member since:
2007-05-05
deanlinkous Member since:
2006-06-19



I read this part and it is enough to see that opensuse is directly downstream of novells taint...

It's true that Novell will have support for Microsoft/ECMA OOXML in SUSE Linux Enterprise 10 Service Pack 1, plus openSUSE 10.3 and onwards.

Reply Score: 5

shapeshifter Member since:
2006-09-19



And I suppose I should believe every corporate blurb they put out for people to read.
Because corporations would never lie, no, they would not do that, right. Right?
Should I also go and read Microsoft's "Get the facts" blurbs?

Reply Score: 2

UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

Will people ever shut up about the Novell boycotts? I mean, come on... seriously... can we, the Linux users, please make our own decisions for a change without having to hear all the Microsoft haters shoot down everything that Microsoft touches with their deal? Personally, I think that OpenSUSE is a damn good distro, like it or not, whether or not their owner is greedy (it's a company--what do you expect?), selfish (compare to the other two companies who made the deal...), and/or badly managed.

Sure, I wasn't too thrilled about the deal, but a good distro's a good distro, and OpenSUSE continues to get better, while Novell seems to be contributing a lot more than some of the truly greedy/selfish companies (ie... Linspire, and especially Xandros). So far, nothing truly bad has come out of it, and until something does, I will remain neutral about it.

And I might as well add that I don't actually run SUSE myself, although the reason has nothing to do with their deal; it's a damn good distro, but I prefer the lightweight, simple, *fast* Zenwalk (or other Slack deratives). However, it's definitely one of the first distros I would recommend to new Linux users, and if learning Linux wasn't one of the things I'm interested in, it would likely be one of my top distros.

Reply Score: 5

Installation problems
by djangoxl on Sat 16th Jun 2007 11:37 UTC
djangoxl
Member since:
2006-03-10

I never managed to install (open)suse.....
Off course, I never had the manual with me, but when I'm sitting behind the single computer in my house and the installer asks me to type the ip address of a ftp server from where I want to download the sources.....

This is the 21th first century man....even OpenBSD lets me SELECT a installation location from a list....

So, I would love to install (open)suse, but never managed, so I just quit and installed Ubuntu or Pclinuxos.

Must say, I'm not too comfortable with this distro and their intimacy wth Microsoft as well

Reply Score: 2

RE: Installation problems
by shapeshifter on Sat 16th Jun 2007 22:00 UTC in reply to "Installation problems"
shapeshifter Member since:
2006-09-19

[q]I never managed to install (open)suse.....
Off course, I never had the manual with me, but when I'm sitting behind the single computer in my house and the installer asks me to type the ip address of a ftp server from where I want to download the sources.....

This is the 21th first century man....even OpenBSD lets me SELECT a installation location from a list....

So, I would love to install (open)suse, but never managed, so I just quit and installed Ubuntu or Pclinuxos.

Must say, I'm not too comfortable with this distro and their intimacy wth Microsoft as well [q]

Lol, they're still doing that?! OMG, I remember about 10 years ago when Suse wasn't distributing iso images, you had to buy it, or you could install it from via ftp.
I was a determined little bugger back then and when I failed to install via ftp, I downloaded the entire mirror, about 3Gb (had a fast ADSL back then), to my computer and installed localy from hard disk.
They made it so hard to install Suse without paying for it that for a newbie linux user wannabe it was just about impossible to install.
They were a crappy company back then and they are crap now under Novell. Some people just don't change.
AVOID SUSE AT ALL COST!!!

Reply Score: 2

Novell NoThanks
by simo on Sat 16th Jun 2007 16:31 UTC
simo
Member since:
2006-01-09

Does anybody use SUSE anymore since the whole NovelloSoft fiasco?

With distro's like Fedora and Ubuntu, I really can't see the point of muddying your hands with SUSE.

I haven't used it it a while personally as I don't like KDE/YAST and professionally I would never recommend Novell over RedHat, indeed I've actively discouraged the use of SUSE, it's just too likely to end in tears.

Reply Score: 1

Feeling sorry for the openSuse people
by h3rman on Sat 16th Jun 2007 17:10 UTC
h3rman
Member since:
2006-08-09

No, the MS/Novell deal isn't pretty.

But do openSuse developers and other contributors, who have nothing to do with the deal, have to suffer those endlessly repeated comments because of it?

Reply Score: 5

deanlinkous Member since:
2006-06-19

They don't have anything to do with the deal, but they are part of the taint... Novells deal extends to opensuse, so that makes opensuse a part of it IMO.

A nice clean fork of the code the day before the deal was signed is what should occur IMO.

Reply Score: 5

grat Member since:
2006-02-02

They don't have anything to do with the deal, but they are part of the taint... Novells deal extends to opensuse, so that makes opensuse a part of it IMO.

Actually, openSuSE users aren't protected if I recall, because the agreement only extends to people who purchased the enterprise version from Novell.

If the FSF really wanted to undermine this deal, they'd lead a nation-wide effort to completely destroy software patents. I'm willing to bet Novell, IBM and even Microsoft would get on board, because they're all threatened-- Microsoft more than most.

Reply Score: 2

deanlinkous Member since:
2006-06-19

Actually, openSuSE users aren't protected if I recall, because the agreement only extends to people who purchased the enterprise version from Novell.


If they are adding Microsoft/ECMA OOXML into opensuse then that tells me it is part of the deal....

Reply Score: 2

OpenSUSE is an awesome distro but...
by loftyhauser on Sat 16th Jun 2007 18:17 UTC
loftyhauser
Member since:
2006-12-18

I've used OpenSUSE for my Tablet PC up until a few months ago. The reason has nothing to do with Microsoft and Novell, but is because I can't get the Intel debugger to work on it (symbols won't load). I'm not sure what they've done to the kernel/glibc to cause this since it's the only distro where I've had this problem. I just tried the new 10.3 Alpha 5 build, but the problem is still there. However, their Tablet PC support is second to none. I also love the polish on the desktop and the way they put the distro together. It's too bad that it is a little bloated and slower than other distros (I've run the exact same code on the same machine using Ubuntu, Fedora and OpenSUSE, and OpenSUSE was the slowest). Still, it's a great distro for a desktop (and a Tablet PC).

Reply Score: 1

ceo1
Member since:
2006-02-02

I find it frustrating that almost every conversation on OSNews about almost any Linux distribution will turn into a GPLv2 vs GPLv3 vs Microsoft vs Novell vs Patents discussion. In the case of the OpenSuse 10.3 Alpha 5 it is the Novell/MS deal that is brought to attention by almost 80% of the people on this thread so far (translates into 30+ people at the time of writing).

This discussion is strictly not necessary in relation to every news topic, for the following reasons:
- Most people, whether in academic or corporate environments, are perfectly well aware of the Novell/MS deal.
- It is being discussed in great, and informative detail in other places
- The discussion is fragmented and rarely discussed by the people-in-the-know but much more so by the ones who want to throw in their me-to opinion

Please - lets make sure this forum is kept informative - meaning on topic.

Best regards,
CEO

Reply Score: 3

Simo - Novel No Thanks
by REMF on Sun 17th Jun 2007 17:55 UTC
REMF
Member since:
2006-02-05

"Does anybody use SUSE anymore since the whole NovelloSoft fiasco? "

Yes. millions of people.

If you are determined to get your panties in such a twist over this then please just turn around and walk away. silently. because this continual whining makes my teeth grate!

Reply Score: 0

REMF
Member since:
2006-02-05

"Well, one thing Suse/Novell do seem to be missing is customers."

who, where?

i am not aware that the number of opensuse customers/users has in any appreciable way diminished........

Reply Score: 0

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

who, where?

You obviously haven't been following Novell very well over the years.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Feeling sorry for the openSuse people
by REMF on Sun 17th Jun 2007 18:03 UTC
REMF
Member since:
2006-02-05

"If they are adding Microsoft/ECMA OOXML into opensuse then that tells me it is part of the deal...."

if they didn't add OOXML i really would be pissed with Novel/opensuse.

I use suse on a work computer that must be able to communicate in a Microsoft world, if it couldn't do that then it would go in the bin with all other useless puritanical software.

Reply Score: 0

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

I use suse on a work computer that must be able to communicate in a Microsoft world, if it couldn't do that then it would go in the bin with all other useless puritanical software.

Then use Open Office's support for the binary MS Office format, which is far, far more complete and will be for years and get your documents into something that can be reliably read into the future in the meantime.

Getting excited about OOXML support is really quite pointless, because there isn't much support there at all. If you want to use Microsoft formats, your best bet is to go and use Microsoft software.

Reply Score: 2

RE: 2
by REMF on Sun 17th Jun 2007 18:05 UTC
REMF
Member since:
2006-02-05

"It is too close to novell for me to be comfortable with it! And I liked what I seen too....loved some of it."

since Novel have spent years paying software engineers salaries to contribute to just about every element of the LInux package, then i guess you will have to find something completely outside the Linux world?

Edited 2007-06-17 18:08

Reply Score: 0

REMF
Member since:
2006-02-05

"I find it frustrating that almost every conversation on OSNews about almost any Linux distribution will turn into a GPLv2 vs GPLv3 vs Microsoft vs Novell vs Patents discussion."

you are not alone.

Reply Score: 2