Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 2nd Jun 2009 21:00 UTC, submitted by poundsmack
Windows Microsoft's original plan was to release Windows 7 three years after Windows Vista, which would put the release date somewhere in January of 2010. Microsoft already made it clear that it would ship sooner, before the holiday season, but we've now got what is most likely the official release dates. Windows 7 will be released to manufacturing at the end of July, with the actual release date being set for October 22 - 2009, that is.
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So Windows 6.1 will have one day ...
by kragil on Tue 2nd Jun 2009 21:16 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

.. before the Ubuntu 9.10 beta release will steal all its thunder.

(I might have hidden irony my comment. You can never be sure.)

Reply Score: 3

cmost Member since:
2006-07-16

.. before the Ubuntu 9.10 beta release will steal all its thunder.

(I might have hidden irony my comment. You can never be sure.)


I doubt Ubuntu's 9.10 release will be "all that." Sure it will have a newer Linux kernel, the latest Gnome desktop and incremental updates to many packages but nothing spectacular to write home to Mother about. It will simply be yet another point release. Windows 7 on the other hand contains many new innovations since the horrid Vista and seems to have addressed many of that operating system's shortcomings. I have been testing it since the first beta and am impressed. Windows 7 will also finally be available for netbooks. On the other hand, if Ubuntu can surprise us all with a new default theme (in something other than orange and brown,) now that would be something that might steal Windows 7's thunder. In the meantime, we always have Linux Mint!

Reply Score: 6

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

".. before the Ubuntu 9.10 beta release will steal all its thunder.

(I might have hidden irony my comment. You can never be sure.)


I doubt Ubuntu's 9.10 release will be "all that." Sure it will have a newer Linux kernel, the latest Gnome desktop and incremental updates to many packages but nothing spectacular to write home to Mother about. It will simply be yet another point release. Windows 7 on the other hand contains many new innovations since the horrid Vista and seems to have addressed many of that operating system's shortcomings. I have been testing it since the first beta and am impressed. Windows 7 will also finally be available for netbooks. On the other hand, if Ubuntu can surprise us all with a new default theme (in something other than orange and brown,) now that would be something that might steal Windows 7's thunder. In the meantime, we always have Linux Mint!
"

Since Linux comparison has been brought up (not by me) in a Windows thread, then even though it is a little off topic, I feel I should mention ... Ubuntu 9.10 will (in all probability) have:

- a completely re-vamped Xorg
http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/xorgs_x_window_innovati...

- improvements to the compiler and reduction in file I/O latency
http://www.osnews.com/story/21393/Getting_the_Lead_Out_of_Linux
http://rajorshi.net/blog/2009/05/programming-for-multicore-introduc...

- New drivers for audio, video, USB hardware, netbooks and notebooks
http://www.h-online.com/open/Kernel-Log-What-s-coming-in-2-6-30-Dri...

- Ext4 and Btrfs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs

- OpenOffice 3.1
http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/features/3.1/index.html

- Firefox 3.5
http://www.techspot.com/news/34948-Mozilla-claims-Firefox-35-to-be-...
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/03/firefox-35-vers/
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/06/02/2053236/Firefox-35-Beta-Bo...
http://openvideo.dailymotion.com/us

- KDE 4.3
http://www.tuxradar.com/content/kde-43-beta-1-looking-pretty

While Windows 7 is without doubt an improvement over Vista, there is some doubt if it will manage to get back to the performance level that was possible with Windows XP.

Meanwhile, the Linux desktop will have made significant imporvements in multiple areas.

Edited 2009-06-03 01:12 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RJop Member since:
2007-01-08

Hmmh, if those are upcoming improvements it looks like Fedora 11 steals most of the Ubuntu 9.10's thunder already.

I'm pretty impressed how well Windows 7 test versions has worked so far. A "Competition" between different OSs will be interesting. After Vista I wasn't so confident that the next Windows would run well on the Eee PCs, but obviously MS has worked hard and did a really good job.

Reply Score: 2

strcpy Member since:
2009-05-20

The parent comment was pretty much spot on.

The improvements and new features you listed were indeed those incremental changes and none of them were specifically related to Ubuntu.

Besides, a wicked mind like mine will also point out that the performance of modern Linux desktop distributions has greatly regressed over the years. It is a myth that your typical and popular Linux distribution will run on old hardware. Objectively the situation is quite comparable to the transformation from XP to Windows 7.

Although I will not probably use the new Windows 7, I applaud for the new release, just like I do with all operating system releases. If not for anything else, the new security features present already in Vista will make the world a better place for all of us.

Edited 2009-06-03 03:29 UTC

Reply Score: 3

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

The parent comment was pretty much spot on.

The improvements and new features you listed were indeed those incremental changes and none of them were specifically related to Ubuntu.

Besides, a wicked mind like mine will also point out that the performance of modern Linux desktop distributions has greatly regressed over the years. It is a myth that your typical and popular Linux distribution will run on old hardware. Objectively the situation is quite comparable to the transformation from XP to Windows 7.

Although I will not probably use the new Windows 7, I applaud for the new release, just like I do with all operating system releases. If not for anything else, the new security features present already in Vista will make the world a better place for all of us.


I think you may need to read my (newly updated) profile, perhaps that would help in communicating with me.

I did not mean to imply those improvements were specifically related to Ubuntu. What I meant was that these were the improvements happening in Linux desktop software after the release of Ubuntu 9.04 that will be included in Ubuntu 9.10. The original poster, to whom I was responding, made the observation about Ubuntu in particular, not I.

The improvements may indeed be seen as "incremental" ... but then again this is the case also with Windows 7 compared with Vista. Incremental improvements.

I would have rated the combined effect of those incremental improvements in the Ubuntu desktop from 9.04 to 9.10 to have a more noticeable beneficial effect on the user's experience. In just six months there will arguably have been a more significant improvement than the improvement in Windows 7 over Windows Vista (in two years). Furthermore, Windows 7 by some reports only manages to get back to the Windows XP level of performance, which would imply no improvement at all in Windows in eight years.

Reply Score: 4

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I think you may need to read my (newly updated) profile, perhaps that would help in communicating with me.

I did not mean to imply those improvements were specifically related to Ubuntu. What I meant was that these were the improvements happening in Linux desktop software after the release of Ubuntu 9.04 that will be included in Ubuntu 9.10. The original poster, to whom I was responding, made the observation about Ubuntu in particular, not I.

The improvements may indeed be seen as "incremental" ... but then again this is the case also with Windows 7 compared with Vista. Incremental improvements.

I would have rated the combined effect of those incremental improvements in the Ubuntu desktop from 9.04 to 9.10 to have a more noticeable beneficial effect on the user's experience. In just six months there will arguably have been a more significant improvement than the improvement in Windows 7 over Windows Vista (in two years). Furthermore, Windows 7 by some reports only manages to get back to the Windows XP level of performance, which would imply no improvement at all in Windows in eight years.


Having had a look through the MSDN Channel 9 videos, the changes that were introduced in Windows Vista are equal in scope to the sort of changes introduced in Mac OS X when it was first released. Mac OS X only became reasonably palatable for the end user by around 10.2 and even then the first crop of Mac OS X native applications were pretty pedestrian.

Windows Vista introduced a lot of new changes further down but the results never made their way to the top until Windows 7. It is very easy to add new features to the bottom of the pile but one has to interweave those enhancements further up the stack in user visible ways so that the end user can yield any possible benefits off it.

Windows 7 epitomises that reality. It is important to recognise improvements made in Windows 7 but it is also important not to fall into the gushy romanticism that seems to be plague the Linux community when a new distribution comes out with the promises of ending poverty, hunger, disease and global inequality within a single release cycle.

As for no enhancements being made to Windows 7 when compared to Windows XP; god help you if the only barometer you have is the use of 'speed' as the sole deciding factor as to whether changes have been made - that is almost as pathetic as the author who wrote an article a while back and equated to a 'marginal change in the number of threads' as evidence of no major kernel changes.

MSDN Channel 9 is littered with the changes; the new dispatch mechanism, GDI+ improvements, audio improvements, DirectX 11, changes in the way driver crashes are handled as to improve reliability, finer grained scalability etc. The way you're portraying it in your text is as though Microsoft have sat on their ass for 8 years doing sweet bugger all - which all evidence is to the contrary.

Reply Score: 3

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

MSDN Channel 9 is littered with the changes; the new dispatch mechanism, GDI+ improvements, audio improvements, DirectX 11, changes in the way driver crashes are handled as to improve reliability, finer grained scalability etc. The way you're portraying it in your text is as though Microsoft have sat on their ass for 8 years doing sweet bugger all - which all evidence is to the contrary.


My biggest surprise that really shows just how advanced Vista and 7 are is this: graphics drivers do not require a restart. In fact, you don't even need to log out/in. The screen just flickers, and that's it [could be 7-specific, don't know]. In addition, if a graphics driver crashes, you loses nothing - no app will die or crash because of it. The screen just flickers, and you're back up. Amazing.

I know of no other modern operating system that can do this. It shows the cleanliness of Microsoft's graphics implementation.

Edited 2009-06-03 06:43 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Darkness Member since:
2005-08-27

graphics drivers don't need a restart, but change the network group to something else than the standard WORKGROUP and you get a prompt to reboot.

Reply Score: 2

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

My biggest surprise that really shows just how advanced Vista and 7 are is this: graphics drivers do not require a restart. In fact, you don't even need to log out/in. The screen just flickers, and that's it [could be 7-specific, don't know]. In addition, if a graphics driver crashes, you loses nothing - no app will die or crash because of it. The screen just flickers, and you're back up. Amazing.

I know of no other modern operating system that can do this. It shows the cleanliness of Microsoft's graphics implementation.


True, as one finds out more about Windows the less one is able to advocate for it to be 'all thrown out' (as I have advocated in the past - out of ignorance of what Windows has) given that there is some extremely awesome components but they are over shadowed by years of backwards compatibility and applications not taking advantage of those features - both Microsoft and third parties failing to do so.

What I think Microsoft needs isn't necessarily new features but for the old features to be ripped out - and get all of Microsoft using those new features so that end users actually see the advanced features of Windows but due to under exploitation by programers, the end users never really seeing the full picture of what Windows has to offer.

Edited 2009-06-03 17:25 UTC

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

As for no enhancements being made to Windows 7 when compared to Windows XP; god help you if the only barometer you have is the use of 'speed' as the sole deciding factor as to whether changes have been made - that is almost as pathetic as the author who wrote an article a while back and equated to a 'marginal change in the number of threads' as evidence of no major kernel changes.

MSDN Channel 9 is littered with the changes; the new dispatch mechanism, GDI+ improvements, audio improvements, DirectX 11, changes in the way driver crashes are handled as to improve reliability, finer grained scalability etc. The way you're portraying it in your text is as though Microsoft have sat on their ass for 8 years doing sweet bugger all - which all evidence is to the contrary.


Perhaps I run into a lot of difficulty communicating through trying to be succinct, and leaving things off.

From a users perspective there won't be a lot to pick between Windows 7 and XP. Its a common catchcry ... what do i get with Vista or Windows 7 that I haven't already got with XP?

Vista's performance was markedly worse (on the same hardware) than XP. Vista refused to load XP drivers, and Vista UAC was a pain. Windows 7 may regain most of that lost performance, compatibility and usability ... but it is still only as good then as XP was ... from a user's perspective.

Why then should one pay (AGAIN) for Windows 7? This will be the question in most users minds.

From a users perspective, Ubuntu gets better and better every six months. Even better, as it grows visibly better and better, one doesn't have to pay anything for the improvements.

Edited 2009-06-03 11:21 UTC

Reply Score: 2

melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

Hang on here. XP drivers are *for* XP. WTF are you trying to do loading them onto Vista? If there's no Vista drivers, then complain and bitch to the hardware manufacturer. That's NOT Microsoft's problem.

UAC problematic? I've had it turned on for 15 months now and had no real issues with it to be honest. Sure, it pops up from time to time, but it's not the overbearing hassle that some of you guys are trying to make it out to be.

Slow? I have XP and Vista on my machine (guess which one I don't use) and I've noticed bugger all difference for the vast majority of times that I have booted into XP. If there are differences, they're so slow that no human can accurately, and reliably tell them apart on a consistent basis.

It just seems that there's a bunch of Microsoft haters out there who want to push their [insert distribution choice] Linux use onto others. These users are so rabid, and so blind to Linux' issues (or maybe it's a deliberate ploy, since I've found most Linux users cannot accept the fact that their choice of o/s has some pretty glaring problems), that'll gloss over any Linux issues and bash anything they don't like, because people are stupid enough to believe their drivel.

Some of the BS arguments that I'm hearing about Vista are just plain and utter rubbish.

Dave

Reply Score: 3

l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

OFF

I think you may need to read my (newly updated) profile, perhaps that would help in communicating with me


Just for kicks, I forced myself and made one of my co-workers try this test, http://www.personalitytest.net/cgi-bin/q.pl and both turned out INTJ. 1% or not. So what?

/OFF

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

OFF

"I think you may need to read my (newly updated) profile, perhaps that would help in communicating with me


Just for kicks, I forced myself and made one of my co-workers try this test, http://www.personalitytest.net/cgi-bin/q.pl and both turned out INTJ. 1% or not. So what?

/OFF
"

INTJ's are not very sociable. In a social context they will often sit quietly in a corner and zone out.

Since they represent only 1% of the population, and don't socialise much, many people don't actually know any INTJ personality types. They are often misunderstood as a consequence.

Reply Score: 2

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

INTJ's are not very sociable. In a social context they will often sit quietly in a corner and zone out.

Since they represent only 1% of the population, and don't socialise much, many people don't actually know any INTJ personality types. They are often misunderstood as a consequence.


I've never been into categorisation much given that I tried the test but there are numerous holes in the logic; for example, I tend to be very quiet and reserved around new people and even then I prefer not to talk - which goes into explaining why I'm not a fan of small talk. I can't imagine seeing the purpose of pointless waffling on about trivial events in peoples lives as if it were the zenith of importance. I'm quite happy to talk about topics that are actually of some real intellectual purpose but outside that I'd sooner sit quietly in the corner in my own thoughts. The idea of sitting around taking needlessly about who did what to who on the weekend neither interested me when I was a teenager nor does it interest me now.

Reply Score: 2

noodlehaus Member since:
2009-06-03

<quote>Since Linux comparison has been brought up (not by me) in a Windows thread, then even though it is a little off topic, I feel I should mention ... Ubuntu 9.10 will (in all probability) have:

- a completely re-vamped Xorg
http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/xorgs_x_window_innovati.....

- improvements to the compiler and reduction in file I/O latency
http://www.osnews.com/story/21393/Getting_the_Lead_Out_of_Linux
http://rajorshi.net/blog/2009/05/programming-for-multicore-introduc.....

- New drivers for audio, video, USB hardware, netbooks and notebooks
http://www.h-online.com/open/Kernel-Log-What-s-coming-in-2-6-30-Dri.....

- Ext4 and Btrfs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs

- OpenOffice 3.1
http://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/features/3.1/index.html

- Firefox 3.5
http://www.techspot.com/news/34948-Mozilla-claims-Firefox-35-to-be-.....
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/03/firefox-35-vers/
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/06/02/2053236/Firefox-35-Beta-Bo.....
http://openvideo.dailymotion.com/us

- KDE 4.3
http://www.tuxradar.com/content/kde-43-beta-1-looking-pretty

While Windows 7 is without doubt an improvement over Vista, there is some doubt if it will manage to get back to the performance level that was possible with Windows XP.

Meanwhile, the Linux desktop will have made significant imporvements in multiple areas. </quote>

... and still no support for the latest webcams (integrated and not), printers, game pads and other peripherals they say you don't need to use your computer.

Edited 2009-06-03 06:19 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

Gosh we're already comparing Ubuntu 8.10 with Windows 7 and they're not out yet.

Personally I have no problem with brown / orange but a face lift would be nice. I've tried the Win 7 RC and was pleasantly surprised, certainly doesn't seem to be the horror of an os that the last windows was.

I hope that they don't mess the security up by turning down UAC till its useless. I think everyone is fed up of Windows bots, malware infections, browser take overs etc. Poor security would be a disaster for MS and the rest of us.

Probably will have Win 7 (paid for) and Ubuntu on my PC in a year ... but I do like Mint.

Reply Score: 2

Seven All Around!
by dc.ricardo on Tue 2nd Jun 2009 21:54 UTC
dc.ricardo
Member since:
2009-06-02

2+9+1+2+2 = 16
1+6 = 7!!! Aha!!!

Reply Score: 2

RE: Seven All Around!
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 2nd Jun 2009 21:57 UTC in reply to "Seven All Around!"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

22-10-2009
4 1 11
4 1 2 = 7!

I solved the JFK murder.

Reply Score: 3

Wow ...
by WorknMan on Tue 2nd Jun 2009 22:50 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

Hard to believe it's been about 2 and a half years since Vista was released. Doesn't seem like that long ago.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Wow ...
by stabbyjones on Wed 3rd Jun 2009 04:07 UTC in reply to "Wow ..."
stabbyjones Member since:
2008-04-15

Hard to believe it's been about 2 and a half years since Vista was released. Doesn't seem like that long ago.


Time flies when you're avoiding conversation with nerds bitching randomly about Vista.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Wow ...
by r_a_trip on Thu 4th Jun 2009 13:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Wow ..."
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

Time flies when you're avoiding conversation with nerds bitching randomly about Vista.

Time also flies when you simply don't use Windows (be it good or not) and divvy up the year between April and October releases.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Wow ...
by stabbyjones on Fri 5th Jun 2009 06:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wow ..."
stabbyjones Member since:
2008-04-15

Time also flies when you simply don't use Windows (be it good or not) and divvy up the year between April and October releases.


Waiting to run 'aptitude full-upgrade' every 6 months doesn't sound like a great deal of fun.

A release that's mean't to right the wrongs of Vista and restore a bit of consumer faith is a lot more interesting than a frozen snapshot of testing with an Aliterating Animal Alias Attached.

Reply Score: 2

ultimate
by hraq on Wed 3rd Jun 2009 02:40 UTC
hraq
Member since:
2005-07-06

I suggest they allow free upgrade from vista ultimate to windows 7 ultimate.

Reply Score: 2

wow
by bullethead on Wed 3rd Jun 2009 02:50 UTC
bullethead
Member since:
2005-07-10

I have Vista on a couple of machines, with the exception of the TV computer which I use for amazon unbox, I have no need for Microsoft products. I'll still buy a couple of copies of Windows 7 however just for shits and giggles and because I love all operating systems.

My main system is Ubuntu, it has done me well, but good luck to Microsoft, I've tried out the beta and they have a whole new method, I like it.

godspeed Microsoft!

Reply Score: 1

i'm impressed
by frantisheq on Wed 3rd Jun 2009 08:22 UTC
frantisheq
Member since:
2008-07-25

i really like 7 but i hope MS won't forget again that there was Vista and why 7 was such a success because Vista reminds of Win ME that was really bad and 7 of XP that was very good.

Edited 2009-06-03 08:26 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Comment by j.blechert
by j.blechert on Wed 3rd Jun 2009 08:34 UTC
j.blechert
Member since:
2006-01-04

good news everyone!
I feel this is a great turn by microsoft.
the windows 7 beta is very stable and it seems there will be no issues with the october release, so kudos to microsoft!

but linux still has one main advantage in user friendliness over windows: and that is the move windows with Alt+Click+Drag feature, it's inconceivable that windows didn't copy that simple yet powerful feature yet.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Thu 4th Jun 2009 04:19 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

Build 7201 has leaked onto the web and apparently it doesn't have the 2010 time bomb on it - so it must be getting close to RTM. If I have enough time I'll do a review of it on a Netbook ;)

Reply Score: 2