Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 12th Aug 2010 22:01 UTC
Internet Explorer Microsoft has announced the release date of the beta of Internet Explorer 9 - September 15. "Starting today, a select group of VIP web developers, designers, bloggers and press begin receiving their invitations to an event we're holding in San Francisco on September 15th to celebrate the Beauty of the Web and to mark the launch of the IE9 Beta."
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Tough Sell.
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 12th Aug 2010 22:42 UTC
Bill Shooter of Bul
Member since:
2006-07-14

I really feel for the developers and marketers that are working on IE, I really do. The're pretty much getting nailed from everyone that has had to put up with IE for the last ten years. Now that ie 9 will bring IE to support long established web standards and make it less of a pariah on the web, they have to promote & defeend it some how.

Something like :

IE 9: the version that doesn't suck any more!

Or

IE 9 Brining you 2003's standards to you today!

But, I sort of have to cringe reading the marketing:

" Developers are already working hard on some amazing new web experiences enabled by Internet Explorer 9. On September 15th we’ll be able to show you a more beautiful web that feels native on Windows."

If IE 9 is standards compliant, then the web experiences should not be limited to IE 9. All that's really unique about IE, is the legacy support modes and maybe some UI differences/ tie ins with windows.

Reply Score: 7

RE: Tough Sell.
by Ventajou on Thu 12th Aug 2010 23:19 UTC in reply to "Tough Sell. "
Ventajou Member since:
2006-10-31

They're probably thinking about things like hardware acceleration which IE9 is the only browser to offer (if you conveniently forget about FF4 beta).

Plus they might have a couple more new features in their sleeve that they haven't revealed in the tech previews yet.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Tough Sell.
by werpu on Fri 13th Aug 2010 20:52 UTC in reply to "Tough Sell. "
werpu Member since:
2006-01-18

I really feel for the developers and marketers that are working on IE, I really do. The're pretty much getting nailed from everyone that has had to put up with IE for the last ten years. Now that ie 9 will bring IE to support long established web standards and make it less of a pariah on the web, they have to promote & defeend it some how.

Something like :

IE 9: the version that doesn't suck any more!

Or

IE 9 Brining you 2003's standards to you today!

But, I sort of have to cringe reading the marketing:

" Developers are already working hard on some amazing new web experiences enabled by Internet Explorer 9. On September 15th we’ll be able to show you a more beautiful web that feels native on Windows."

If IE 9 is standards compliant, then the web experiences should not be limited to IE 9. All that's really unique about IE, is the legacy support modes and maybe some UI differences/ tie ins with windows.

No worries IE9 will be pariah of the web until the last web developer is not forced to develop anymore for version 6 and 7 (and to a smaller degree for version 8 which is more or less on the level of firefox 2)
Which means it is nice to have finally yearly updates from Microsoft and standards support, but that does not help us poor sods who still have to fight every day with the absymalities IE6 and IE7 are.
And while IE6 is on its way out it still has to be supported.

The day finally when most users are on ie9 will be the one I will open a bottle of champagne.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Tough Sell.
by lucas_maximus on Sun 15th Aug 2010 13:03 UTC in reply to "Tough Sell. "
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Pity IE8 is standards compliant as well. Maybe you wish to read this ...

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc351024%28VS.85%29...

http://davidnaylor.org/blog/2009/03/microsoft-lies-about-ie8-css-21...

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-IE8-Has-the-First-Complete...

They all came up with a quick google of "CSS 2.1 and IE8".

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Tough Sell.
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Mon 16th Aug 2010 02:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Tough Sell. "
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Yes, with those standards. SVG ? Not so much. I was being kind by giving them 2003 as a date. SVG 1.0 was recommended by w3c from 2001 by a working committee that included Microsoft employees and drew from previous Microsoft proprietary standards. But they couldn't be bothered to implement it in their browser until now.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Tough Sell.
by lucas_maximus on Tue 17th Aug 2010 22:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Tough Sell. "
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I never had to use SVG in a website yet and have never even wished to. Never fit in with what I am doing.

I wonder really how many web devs have wanted to use it? I doubt it is many tbh.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Tough Sell.
by werpu on Mon 16th Aug 2010 17:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Tough Sell. "
werpu Member since:
2006-01-18

Pity IE8 is standards compliant as well. Maybe you wish to read this ...

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc351024%28VS.85%29...

http://davidnaylor.org/blog/2009/03/microsoft-lies-about-ie8-css-21...

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-IE8-Has-the-First-Complete...

They all came up with a quick google of "CSS 2.1 and IE8".


To my experience IE8 is relatively compliant regarding CSS2 fails utterly ad CSS3 and fails completely in newer dom constructs, add to that that pretty much everything non standardized is handled by IE in a different way.
They for instance introduced finally a console function object but instead of behaving like a normal function like in the rest of the browsers they introduced it as object which does not understand apply, then you sometimes have array like constructs which are not real arrays etc...
Those are small annoyances but on the other hand not really forgivable especially since IE has been the last browser covering those areas.
Ah yes the Garbage collection while again being improved still is not as good as the one Firefox or Chrome has, it still leaks dom nodes and mem where it should not.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Tough Sell.
by lucas_maximus on Tue 17th Aug 2010 22:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Tough Sell. "
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I been working doing cross browser stuff pretty much solidly for about 2 years ... I never have a problem with IE8. Renders pretty much the same as firefox/chrome and safari on the work I have done.

It appears to be completely CSS 2.1 compliant and since I have to make everything work in IE6+ I can't really use anything like CSS 3.0, so it is a non-issue as many of the more advanced selectors in CSS 2.1 I can't use anyway.

I expect this is a situation for most developers, I would love to use HTML 5 and CSS 3.0 but I have to support every browser that has a significant hit site on our site which means I have to develop for IE6.

As far as JS goes, I really don't do anything complicated enough to require anything more complicated than alerts most of the time mainly due to the limitations of the CMS we are currently using, so I can't possibly comment on what IE8 does.

But I do get fed up with the constant IE bashing when IE8 is quite blatently "not that bad, just not brilliant".

Reply Score: 1

Looking forward to it.
by Tuishimi on Fri 13th Aug 2010 01:22 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

I am looking forward to the beta. I plan on making it my primary browser and possibly not looking back, if the development team comes through and builds a solid product.

Reply Score: 1

MysterMask Member since:
2005-07-12

Going back to the days of IE dominance again? Most other browsers have better user experience and standards compliance now.

I guess only sheeps will go back to whatever MS is providing as long as it is "good enough" ..

Reply Score: 2

Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

Right into a broad ad hominem, eh?

Maybe those so-called sheep simply focus their energy elsewhere and if they have a tool that works well, use it and get their work or whatever else they need to get done, DONE.

Reply Score: 2

IE9 might still suck
by pysiak on Fri 13th Aug 2010 07:21 UTC
pysiak
Member since:
2008-01-01

If IE9 is the same app just being fixed, then it will suck. I have just 1 my own personal reason which might be demonstrated in this scenario:
1. start IE6,7,8
2. watch the window open up, see the empty address bar
3. start typing an address into the address bar
4. watch as seconds later it so happens that IE finished loading all the widgets and decided to replace what you typed in the address bar into about:blank or your home page address or whatever.
5. CURSE!!!!

Oh, there's another from IE8:
1. open a few tabs
2. open one of the links in a new window
3. go back to the 1st window with tabs
4. decide to end your browsing session by closing the window
5. realize that you just closed only the 1st window and that you're lost, because you still have to close the 2nd one and this means that when you start it up again, it won't remember your tabs, but only the 2nd window.
6. Realize that firefox has the same thing.

Standards? Who cares, IE sucks. Basic user experience is still forgotten by MS.

Thanks

Reply Score: 3

RE: IE9 might still suck
by _txf_ on Fri 13th Aug 2010 11:48 UTC in reply to "IE9 might still suck"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

that and the user interface still looks like ass and wastes space and is full of clutter that hinders more than helps.

There is the general tendency that the content of the web is more important than the chrome and it seems that IE is going backward in that regard.

Edited 2010-08-13 11:50 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: IE9 might still suck
by Stratoukos on Fri 13th Aug 2010 12:09 UTC in reply to "IE9 might still suck"
Stratoukos Member since:
2009-02-11

...
6. Realize that firefox has the same thing.

7. Realize that opera also does the same thing

This is the most annoying thing a browser can do. I rarely open new windows, so I have one window with tabs accumulated for some months.

Then I open a new window, forget about it, close the first one, and there goes my tabs.

I can't think of an elegant solution though...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: IE9 might still suck
by Zifre on Fri 13th Aug 2010 15:48 UTC in reply to "RE: IE9 might still suck"
Zifre Member since:
2009-10-04

I can't think of an elegant solution though...

Bookmarks?

Personally, I've never really understood the need to save tabs. It's a lot easier and "safer" to just bookmark the things I want to read. This also makes the browser start a lot faster.

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: IE9 might still suck
by Tuishimi on Fri 13th Aug 2010 20:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: IE9 might still suck"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm with you. I never save tabs. I have a very nicely organized list of bookmarks with my most used sites at the top of their respective lists.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: IE9 might still suck
by farfromhome on Fri 13th Aug 2010 21:43 UTC in reply to "RE: IE9 might still suck"
farfromhome Member since:
2007-02-19

Actually, for Firefox that is not a problem. Simply open the History menu and look in Recently Closed Windows. The window you had just closed should be first in the list. Select it, et voilà, your window is back, complete with every single tab. Firefox has long been the best browser at saving tabs (first with Tab Mix Plus, now natively).

Reply Score: 2

RE: IE9 might still suck
by chandler on Sat 14th Aug 2010 04:27 UTC in reply to "IE9 might still suck"
chandler Member since:
2006-08-29

1. start IE6,7,8
2. watch the window open up, see the empty address bar
3. start typing an address into the address bar
4. watch as seconds later it so happens that IE finished loading all the widgets and decided to replace what you typed in the address bar into about:blank or your home page address or whatever.
5. CURSE!!!!


Sorry, I can't duplicate this on a 1.4GHz Core 2 Solo (Windows 7 x64). The interface loads completely before I can click in the address bar.

What kind of system are you doing this test on, and is it really a fair test on that systeM?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: IE9 might still suck
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Mon 16th Aug 2010 02:21 UTC in reply to "RE: IE9 might still suck"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Happens to me all the time on Xp, regardless of processor of speed

Reply Score: 2

The thing is...
by Tuishimi on Sat 14th Aug 2010 15:27 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

IE will still end up being most folks' default browser on Windows. And if they improve it sufficiently enough (quick, compatible, solid display engine with good features) that even if they don't change some of the browser behaviors regarding controls, or general usability, it will still do very well.

Reply Score: 2

Review
by cystophersam on Sat 14th Aug 2010 18:21 UTC
cystophersam
Member since:
2010-08-14

I appreciate the concern which is been rose. The things need to be sorted out because it is about the individual but it can be with everyone.
--------

Edited 2010-08-14 18:23 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Review
by cystophersam on Sat 14th Aug 2010 18:23 UTC in reply to "Review"
cystophersam Member since:
2010-08-14

dofoofdklg

Edited 2010-08-14 18:24 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Comment by lucas_maximus
by lucas_maximus on Sun 15th Aug 2010 13:01 UTC
lucas_maximus
Member since:
2009-08-18

Has any of the commenters actually run the IE9 Preview?

Other than having a decent render speed of pretty much everypage I have visited. The font rendering is smooth and the browser feel very smooth while scrolling (firefox/chrome/IE8 have slightly jerky scrolling).

IE8 is a fairly decent web browser ... renders XHTML 1.1 sites and CSS 2.1 sites pretty much the same as the big 4 other browsers. It is a little slow .. but it works fine and isn't a pain to develop for.

So can we actually critique the browser when it has been released?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by lucas_maximus
by Tuishimi on Sun 15th Aug 2010 14:54 UTC in reply to "Comment by lucas_maximus"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes I have and I agree. And I also agree that we don't even know what the final product will look (and we won't necessarily know that when the fall beta arrives because I am sure it's functionality will be basic and incomplete).

Reply Score: 2

Yawn...
by benali72 on Mon 16th Aug 2010 20:05 UTC
benali72
Member since:
2008-05-03

Yawn...

Everyone I know left IE behind years ago. The only exceptions are poor corporate drones working at companies so strict they aren't allowed to download anything better.

How about IE 9's privacy? Does it have the equivalents of BetterPrivacy, Ghostery, NoScript, and Ad Block Plus?

no? ... yawn...

Reply Score: 1