Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 9th Dec 2011 23:10 UTC
Internet & Networking Think companies only use patents to block competition? Heck no, they apparently also use them to hinder the w3c standards process. As Opera's Haavard details, Apple is yet again using patents (or even just patent applications) to hinder or block the development of open standards. Sickening.
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Do not buy Apple stuff
by Janvl on Fri 9th Dec 2011 23:25 UTC
Janvl
Member since:
2007-02-20

The only way this company will change is if people refuse to buy their products.

I do not own one little piece of Apple hardware or software, how about you?

Reply Score: 14

RE: Do not buy Apple stuff
by kristoph on Sat 10th Dec 2011 01:52 UTC in reply to "Do not buy Apple stuff"
kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

Good for you sir. You are person of integrity. If you don't like a company, don't buy their stuff. Anything else is hypocrisy.

Reply Score: 4

v Do buy Apple stuff!!!
by krreagan on Sat 10th Dec 2011 03:26 UTC in reply to "Do not buy Apple stuff"
RE: Do buy Apple stuff!!!
by Beta on Sat 10th Dec 2011 17:35 UTC in reply to "Do buy Apple stuff!!!"
Beta Member since:
2005-07-06

52?
You come off sounding like a 23 year old bell‐end.

You’ve done well on the stock market buying a company when it was just leaving rock bottom prices. Be thankful for that in itself.

Reply Score: 2

v RE: Do not buy Apple stuff
by Hussein on Sat 10th Dec 2011 21:35 UTC in reply to "Do not buy Apple stuff"
RE[2]: Do not buy Apple stuff
by Janvl on Sat 10th Dec 2011 22:16 UTC in reply to "RE: Do not buy Apple stuff"
Janvl Member since:
2007-02-20

The lists of Apple stuff bought, sounds a bit like "mine is bigger then yours".

I never understood and will never understand these people, consider them the ultimate polluters.
Have a glimps at http://phonestory.org/

Reply Score: 4

RE: Do not buy Apple stuff
by diegoviola on Sun 11th Dec 2011 04:18 UTC in reply to "Do not buy Apple stuff"
diegoviola Member since:
2006-08-15

The only way this company will change is if people refuse to buy their products.

I do not own one little piece of Apple hardware or software, how about you?


I never bought anything from Apple and never will.

I've been free from Microsoft/Apple and I've been using Linux for the last 12 years, and it feels great!

So long Microsoft/Apple.

Edited 2011-12-11 04:24 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: Do not buy Apple stuff
by shmerl on Sun 11th Dec 2011 04:42 UTC in reply to "Do not buy Apple stuff"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Agreed. They deserve being boycotted by any honest person.

Reply Score: 3

The Fix.
by andydread on Sat 10th Dec 2011 00:07 UTC
andydread
Member since:
2009-02-02

So on a serious tip. How in the world do normal tech nerds with very little money and power fight back against this type of behavior by these entities? I see the EFF has been doing very good work and I am and active member and try to donate everytime I see EFF in the news. How do we get more people to get involved to change this? More people to become EFF members here in the USA and influence them into lobbying to fix this mess? How can concerned geeks get involved to at-least raise this issue? Occupy Silicon Valley? Seriously.

Reply Score: 5

apple is losing already
by bnolsen on Sat 10th Dec 2011 01:35 UTC
bnolsen
Member since:
2006-01-06

Apple is losing already in the market. For once we've been seeing unprecedented drops in their pricing. In the past Apple hasn't done this with their products. Ice cream sandwich and these $100 7" capacitive tablets are taking their toll, especially where it counts most: purchases for children.

Reply Score: 4

RE: apple is losing already
by kristoph on Sat 10th Dec 2011 01:48 UTC in reply to "apple is losing already"
kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

Yeah, Apple is trouble, as demonstrated by the fact that they own the bulk of the tablet market, the bulk of the music player market, the fact that they have the #1 (iPhone 4s) the #2 (iPhone 4) and the number #3 (iPhone 3GS) smartphone in the market, their the top brand in the world, they have the highest satisfaction of any OEM, they are the number 1 company on the planet by market cap, they have the most cash of any company on the planet, yadda yadda yadda.

Their major competitors - Samsung's - argument in the US courts recently was that the design patent violations were not harming Apple because Apple was already making as many devices as they could sell!!!

You need to really ease off on the kool-aid.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: apple is losing already
by Fergy on Sat 10th Dec 2011 06:35 UTC in reply to "RE: apple is losing already"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

He doesn't say Apple is in trouble. Apple is losing their death grip on markets. Any device maker can get a free OS with the highest marketshare to make anything they want: smartphone, tv, mp3player, tablet. It has also become very easy to integrate wireless connectivity in these devices so you don't have to connect them to a pc anymore. Which means you can use an itunes competitor on the web like amazon or any other cloud service.

So Apple will be playing on a level playing field. Let's see how well they will do.

Edited 2011-12-10 06:35 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: apple is losing already
by phoudoin on Sun 11th Dec 2011 17:23 UTC in reply to "RE: apple is losing already"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

the fact that they have the #1 (iPhone 4s) the #2 (iPhone 4) and the number #3 (iPhone 3GS) smartphone in the market


US market.
The world is a bit bigger than US.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: apple is losing already
by henderson101 on Sun 11th Dec 2011 21:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: apple is losing already"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

"the fact that they have the #1 (iPhone 4s) the #2 (iPhone 4) and the number #3 (iPhone 3GS) smartphone in the market


US market.
The world is a bit bigger than US.
"

Company UK with 12 employees. 1 techie, the rest are consumers. We have, 5 iPhones, 1 Windows phone 7, 1 Android, 3 blackberries, 2 Nokia dumb phones. 2 of those iPhones were bought in the last 2 months. Windows 7 phone was a "good sales man", and Blackberry users would likely go IPhone or Android on their next phone.

This is pretty much the experience I've had in general. People who identify with business seem to go Backberry. People who are looking for a cheap phone end up with Android or Windows Phone 7, people who avoid modernity have old school phones. Everyone else has an iPhone.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: apple is losing already
by PresentIt on Sun 11th Dec 2011 21:17 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: apple is losing already"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

This is pretty much the experience I've had in general. People who identify with business seem to go Backberry. People who are looking for a cheap phone end up with Android or Windows Phone 7, people who avoid modernity have old school phones. Everyone else has an iPhone.

Yes, because your "personal experience" is valid for everyone, everywhere, in the entire world!

Geez, you Apple fanboys are weird.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: apple is losing already
by phoudoin on Sun 11th Dec 2011 23:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: apple is losing already"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

Hum, how to say that gently... the world is a bit bigger than an UK 12 persons company *too*.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: apple is losing already
by PresentIt on Sun 11th Dec 2011 21:16 UTC in reply to "RE: apple is losing already"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Yeah, Apple is trouble

Android is kicking iOS's ass. Apple is scared shitless over Android.

Reply Score: 2

please
by kristoph on Sat 10th Dec 2011 01:39 UTC
kristoph
Member since:
2006-01-01

Do you ever bother to actually think through the articles you repost or is the whole rabid dog approach just irresistible?

Apple is part of the W3C. It's their *obligation* to disclose any patents (granted or filed) that may impinge on a standard. The alternative would be a submarine patent which obviously would be much worse.

As the article points out most of the disclosures don't apply to the standard and don't impact it. Apple is just making sure everyone is aware of the relevant patents it holds (it's almost certain they didn't even bother to do an in-depth analysis, they just found anything remotely relevant and disclosed it).

Also most of the patents were filed or existed years before the W3C got around to the specification so it's not like Apple was hiding them.

The ONLY thing that Apple is guilty of is not disclosing all the patents earlier in the process.

Now as I have been part of some OpenGroup WG's let me tell you none of the participants have a clue about what a recommendation or standard represents vis a vie our patents because no one in the room is a lawyer. We go talk to the lawyers later in the process and they do their thing, disclose things and whatever.

It's not all a 'sickening' conspiracy. Some of it is just the way shit gets done in the real world.

Reply Score: 5

RE: please
by PresentIt on Sat 10th Dec 2011 13:31 UTC in reply to "please"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Apple is part of the W3C. It's their *obligation* to disclose any patents (granted or filed) that may impinge on a standard. The alternative would be a submarine patent which obviously would be much worse.

The alternative would be to not file the claim. Like everyone else is doing.

As the article points out most of the disclosures don't apply to the standard and don't impact it. Apple is just making sure everyone is aware of the relevant patents it holds (it's almost certain they didn't even bother to do an in-depth analysis, they just found anything remotely relevant and disclosed it).

Actually, they are saying "these are our patents, and we're going to enforce them."

Also most of the patents were filed or existed years before the W3C got around to the specification so it's not like Apple was hiding them.

So? That's the whole point of the W3C's patent policy.

It's not all a 'sickening' conspiracy.

I agree. A single company being idiots does not make it a conspiracy.

It's clear that Apple is doing this to create problems for open standards, though.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: please
by kaiwai on Sat 10th Dec 2011 13:50 UTC in reply to "RE: please"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

And Adobe, Microsoft and others aren't complete and utter c-nts? Adobe and their sabotaging HTML5 at every opportunity, Firefox claiming to support standards only to either fail to implement them properly or if they do so but in a broken way thus making use of the standard completely pointless. Sorry but undermining open standards is a game that all the players in the IT market partake in - the question is how blind are you towards the companies that you cheerlead for.

Reply Score: 1

v Wow
by Windows Sucks on Sat 10th Dec 2011 02:08 UTC
RE: Wow
by Valhalla on Sat 10th Dec 2011 03:22 UTC in reply to "Wow"
Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

I'd agree so far as I think Microsoft generally gets off easy here on OSNews, however it doesn't change my opinion that Apple is getting what they deserve.

Reply Score: 6

v RE[2]: Wow
by krreagan on Sat 10th Dec 2011 03:31 UTC in reply to "RE: Wow"
v RE: Wow
by krreagan on Sat 10th Dec 2011 03:27 UTC in reply to "Wow"
v RE: Wow
by bloodline on Sat 10th Dec 2011 09:52 UTC in reply to "Wow"
v RE[2]: Wow
by henderson101 on Sat 10th Dec 2011 10:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Wow"
RE[3]: Wow
by Thom_Holwerda on Sat 10th Dec 2011 10:34 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wow"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Every time Thom pisses off Gruber enough to link to OSNews, I expect they make a tonne of money from ad revenue. So far, he's done that twice in the last few months.


Sorry, but no. Just for laughs, I just checked our analytics software, and Gruber doesn't even register on our radar. If you have ~400000 unique visitors per month, Gruber doesn't really affect you all that much.

Also, we don't make a lot of money, you know. Those few ads we do have aren't making us rich, not by a long shot. We can keep the site running, and that's about it.

Plus, Apple is easy to bash, because they are the current pet hate of many techies and seem to be able to do regrettable actions and practices at the drop of a hat. *shrugs*


If you act like a dick, don't be surprised if someone calls you a dick.

Reply Score: 7

RE[4]: Wow
by kristoph on Sun 11th Dec 2011 05:17 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wow"
kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

If you act like a dick, don't be surprised if someone calls you a dick.


In this case though Thom, only a certain blogger is acting like a dick.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Wow
by PresentIt on Sun 11th Dec 2011 14:09 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Wow"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

In this case though Thom, only a certain blogger is acting like a dick.

You and Apple are bloggers?

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Wow
by JAlexoid on Sun 11th Dec 2011 16:38 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Wow"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Just like Transparency International are dicks when they point out corruption and lack of public office transparency...

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Wow
by bloodline on Sat 10th Dec 2011 11:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wow"
bloodline Member since:
2008-07-28

Every time Thom pisses off Gruber enough to link to OSNews, I expect they make a tonne of money from ad revenue. So far, he's done that twice in the last few months. Plus, Apple is easy to bash, because they are the current pet hate of many techies and seem to be able to do regrettable actions and practices at the drop of a hat. *shrugs*


I doubt OSNews makes much money (I know from my own ad revenue), but it would be much lower without us arguing about Apple.

Apple are no better or worse than any of the big tech companies, but they trade on PR (how else do you compete in a commodity market?) so everything they do is high profile.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Wow
by bloodline on Sat 10th Dec 2011 11:06 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wow"
bloodline Member since:
2008-07-28

I should add that, OSNews is still a valuable place! Due to an article posted here I made contact with A guy called Jonathan Schleifer who's framework software looks like it might be perfect for certain projects I'm involved it!

My point is it's the noise that keeps this place going, and let's the signal come through.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Wow
by Windows Sucks on Sat 10th Dec 2011 10:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Wow"
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

"Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

Very interesting is all I can say.


Operating system news is a special interest topic, it doesn't generate many hits... Bashing Apple will shift your hit count by orders of magnitude, and high hit counts mean more Ad revenue... Thom is just protecting the site's revenue stream... At least we still get the odd snippet of OSNews here and there, so that's nice ;)
"

You got me there. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't losing my mind or something. LOL!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Wow
by PresentIt on Sat 10th Dec 2011 13:34 UTC in reply to "RE: Wow"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Apple fanboys are amusing.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Wow
by henderson101 on Sun 11th Dec 2011 21:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wow"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Apple fanboys are amusing.


Really? Please enlighten us as to whom you refer.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Wow
by PresentIt on Sun 11th Dec 2011 21:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wow"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

The Apple fanboys whining over criticism of Apple.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Wow
by Janvl on Sat 10th Dec 2011 11:56 UTC in reply to "Wow"
Janvl Member since:
2007-02-20

Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.


Sorry to say, I do not like MS either. I build my own machine, run Kubuntu on it and I hate MS for what they did to the web, I am still confronted with websites build with frontpage 4, trying to explain people that it is a dead end.

But, . . . that does not make Apple any better.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Wow
by Windows Sucks on Sat 10th Dec 2011 18:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Wow"
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

" Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.


But, . . . that does not make Apple any better.
"

Right. My point was not if Apple was right or wrong or indifferent. My point was that ALL is see is Apple is evil on here now. Not Google when they do crazy stuff or Microsoft when they do crazy stuff.

On some days (Like yesterday) you will have 3 4 stories about how Apple is the devil. Really? Its a company like any other. Almost all companies do dirt. Google included.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Wow
by PresentIt on Sun 11th Dec 2011 14:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wow"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

My point was that ALL is see is Apple is evil on here now.

Pure and utter BS.

On some days (Like yesterday) you will have 3 4 stories about how Apple is the devil.

Your attempt at defending Apple is just embarrassing and pathetic. You want people to stop criticizing Apple because Apple does so much evil shit anyway, so that's why it's wrong to cover them when they do evil shit?

Give me a break.

If Apple had stopped doing evil shit all the time they wouldn't be called out on it either.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Wow
by PresentIt on Sat 10th Dec 2011 13:41 UTC in reply to "Wow"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

So this makes it acceptable for Apple to behave like this?

Reply Score: 3

RE: Wow
by kaiwai on Sat 10th Dec 2011 13:45 UTC in reply to "Wow"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

Very interesting is all I can say.


Last time I checked Thom was an equal opportunity basher; when Microsoft and Apple didn't get behind WebM he equally called them both out on the matter so Thom is hardly inconsistent - he'll praise a company when it needs to be praised and bashed when it deserves to be bashed.

For me Apple is just like every other company out there; good, bad and ugly all mixed up and what you see out there is what you get.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Wow
by bloodline on Sat 10th Dec 2011 20:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Wow"
bloodline Member since:
2008-07-28

"Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash. Very interesting is all I can say.
Last time I checked Thom was an equal opportunity basher; when Microsoft and Apple didn't get behind WebM he equally called them both out on the matter so Thom is hardly inconsistent - he'll praise a company when it needs to be praised and bashed when it deserves to be bashed. For me Apple is just like every other company out there; good, bad and ugly all mixed up and what you see out there is what you get. "

Quite right, he has called out others... But he totally missed all the hot patent action happening with HTC and some other patent troll stuff... So many of us get a bit bored with his constant interest in Apple.

Edited 2011-12-10 20:47 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Wow
by PresentIt on Sun 11th Dec 2011 14:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wow"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

But he totally missed all the hot patent action happening with HTC and some other patent troll stuff...

What was that? Do you have a link?

So many of us get a bit bored with his constant interest in Apple.

You don't get it, do you? Apple is huge. When Apple does something, it has a huge impact on the market. It's natural that one of the most powerful companies on the planet are scrutinized. In fact, it's a good thing.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Wow
by kaiwai on Mon 12th Dec 2011 01:08 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wow"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

What was that? Do you have a link?


I think he was referring to when HTC bought out S3 (technically both are owned by the same people so it was a matter of re-arranging the chairs on the deck). The argument one could make is that HTC only bought out S3 to screw over Apple.

You don't get it, do you? Apple is huge. When Apple does something, it has a huge impact on the market. It's natural that one of the most powerful companies on the planet are scrutinized. In fact, it's a good thing.


True, and if he doesn't like it he can always avoid those stories - there are lots of uninteresting stories on OSNews.com which I ignore but I'm sure are really interesting to other readers. One of the things I do find funny are the number of people who run from Apple to Microsoft then to Sun Microsystems then back to Microsoft then over to Linux then back to Microsoft again - looking for someone or something they can put in a pedestal and worship like a deity. Whether you're running Windows, Mac OS X or some other platform the parent company will always do a mixture of good, bad and ugly - this idea of injecting so much emotional investment into owning a computer seems a little strange from my point of view.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Wow
by PresentIt on Mon 12th Dec 2011 19:39 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Wow"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

I think he was referring to when HTC bought out S3 (technically both are owned by the same people so it was a matter of re-arranging the chairs on the deck). The argument one could make is that HTC only bought out S3 to screw over Apple.

It was Apple that sued HTC first, if I am not mistaken. So Apple tried to screw over HTC. HTC, then, bought S3 to defend itself, not to screw anyone over (did they start using these patents against anyone else?).

Reply Score: 1

RE: Wow
by Gone fishing on Sat 10th Dec 2011 19:36 UTC in reply to "Wow"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

Thought this was OSnews? Now it's become the bash apple site. Microsoft is doing the same stuff and has been for years and yet no bashing there (but for me). But Apple? Bash, bash, bash.

Very interesting is all I can say.


I think the difference between Apple and MS is the just the shear level of hypocrisy you get from Apple, somehow MS just seems more honestly evil.

Reply Score: 4

Comment by KLU9
by KLU9 on Sat 10th Dec 2011 20:48 UTC
KLU9
Member since:
2006-12-06

Opera and web standards... [crickets, tumbleweed]

Opera and web standards... AND APPLE AND MOTHERF#@KING PATENTS!!!1!1111eleventyone! [dozens of comments]

oh well, c'est la vie

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by KLU9
by PresentIt on Sun 11th Dec 2011 14:15 UTC in reply to "Comment by KLU9"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

WTF? Are you drunk or something?

Reply Score: 1

Comment by shmerl
by shmerl on Sun 11th Dec 2011 04:39 UTC
shmerl
Member since:
2010-06-08

These kind of activities should cause normal people to stay away from anything associated with Apple, MS and other similar groups which fight open standards for the sake if their profits.

Reply Score: 2

Thank you, Apple,
by wannabe geek on Mon 12th Dec 2011 18:18 UTC
wannabe geek
Member since:
2006-09-27

for showing once again what patents can do.

As they say in my town: don't blame the pig, blame the pig farmer. Apple and Microsoft are just using the legal tools they have. Outrage and boycotts will teach them to be more subtle, but the underlying problem will remain.

Of course, Google can afford to play the "good guy" because they have their crown jewels well hidden in their servers.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Thank you, Apple,
by shmerl on Mon 12th Dec 2011 23:05 UTC in reply to "Thank you, Apple,"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

That if you assume it's normal for everyone to be a pig. A rather morbid view. I'd say differently to them - don't be a pig.

Edited 2011-12-12 23:06 UTC

Reply Score: 2