Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 28th Mar 2012 22:29 UTC
Games The rumour mill for the next generation of video game consoles has been churning out some juicy stuff these past few months. While Nintendo has laid most of its cards out on the table, Microsoft and Sony have remained tight-lipped, probably because their consoles are still seeing increased sales. So, we have to rely on rumours, and those rumours have one thing in common: Microsoft and Sony want to eliminate the used games market.
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The year of Open Source? or just PC
by Darkmage on Wed 28th Mar 2012 22:35 UTC
Darkmage
Member since:
2006-10-20

Any attempts to kill second hand gaming are going to meet fierce resistance, and mass piracy. Most games don't justify the $99 price tag and most gamers are not willing to fork out the thousands of dollars needed to keep a brand new game habit going. Second hand gaming drives most of those platforms. Without it the next console generations are going to die.

I see a huge opportunity here for the indie/open source developers to step up.

Edited 2012-03-28 22:36 UTC

Reply Score: 6

Dr.Mabuse Member since:
2009-05-19

I see a huge opportunity here for the indie/open source developers to step up.


It certainly is, and there are already some great titles out there.

As people who know me will testify, I'm a huge fan of Urban Terror. IMHO, this game ticks ALL the right check boxes for a multi-player FPS... I've played it for YEARS, and it's completely free to download and play!

What commercial title can compare for that sort of long-term satisfaction? WoW perhaps? (Not my thing, but it seems popular.)

So as far as I'm concerned, if they kill the used game market they are only going to hurt themselves - it might just turn people off buying completely (as you say.)

I think a lot of people are struggling with the concept of paying top dollar for the same repackaged titles over and over again.

Reply Score: 4

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Actually I'd say Urban terror is exactly what is WRONG with indie games and here is why: What is it? yet another Q3 Arena clone. Now compare it to MW3 or Call Of Duty or even Far Cry I from 2003...see the difference?

The problem with indie games in a nutshell is unless its a little popcap or humble bundle style game what you end up with is "itch scratching" and ripping off the same old tired ideas over and over and OVER because its easy. its simply easier to just make another Q3 Arena clone that it is to make a game with good story, excellent characters, decent acting, etc. the simple fact is there is a VERY small niche for the whole "chicken with its head cut off" throwing crap at each other MP only game and most of those players are in the latest Call of Dooky MP or playing TF2 for free.

So while I wish the indies nothing but luck ripping off Q3 Arena AGAIN simply isn't gonna set the world on fire, nobody is gonna go "Oh but YOUR ripoff of Q3 Arena is just so much more special than the 40 other Q3 Arena ripoffs" and suddenly make it take off. Do something different, something new, hell make it funny like No One Lives forever or crazy like Postal II, SOMETHING besides yet another MP only Q3 Arena clone.

Reply Score: 3

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

its simply easier to just make another Q3 Arena clone that it is to make a game with good story, excellent characters, decent acting, etc.


Heh, that's exactly my feeling. Every time I download a oss FPS it's the same tired multiplayer arene game. It might look good and run smooth but that's of little consolation. Sure, MP is fun but some of us enjoy games with a good singleplayer campaign and don't want to spend every waking hour on an MP server.

Reply Score: 3

Darkmage Member since:
2006-10-20

What about Wing Commander Saga: Darkest Dawn? it's very impressive for a fan project. It'd be nice if some more work was put into open content for Freespace 2 since the engine itself has a ton of enhancements and has aged well.

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Wing Commander Saga: Darkest Dawn


That's not an FPS, is it?
That said, yes WCS: DS looks very promising.

Reply Score: 2

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Its nice but I tried it and without a flightstick, something most of us haven't owned in a decade, its really not all that fun. And again you are talking about a teeny tiny niche as space flight sims died out FOR A REASON and that was because people got tired of those bulky flight sticks that were only good for a handful of games sitting on their desks. Heck i got the free MW 4 given away by Smith and Tinker, do i play it? Nope, because without a stick its just not very fun and with two kids and one in college I simply don't have the time nor the money to waste on a stick that i will use for exactly TWO games, it and the new WC game.

All one has to do is to look at the top sales lists and you can see what genres need to be tackled, FPSes with good story and single player campaigns, Dragon Age style deep single player RPGs, and I'd argue if you are gonna do a flight sim it HAS to have controls at LEAST as easy to use with a KB and mouse as Freelancer, which if you look to this very day new mods are made and servers are populated with players and guilds simply because it DOES play so damned nicely with a standard KB and mouse. Sadly the new WC being based on FS II is really obvious as i have FS II and frankly its not very fun without a stick either, too many buttons and not intuitive at all. With Freelancer you can put that game away for a year and play 2 missions and be capable of putting up a fight, it'll take a good hour and a half of tutorial missions to get FS II back up to speed and even then you feel like you are fighting the controls.

If any game devs are listening? Give me a combo of the craziness of Postal II AND Just Cause II in a FPS and watch the users and money roll in. Forget realism, let me do crazy stuff! Make the game total insanity, let me ride on cars while throwing fire, give me an M16 with a nuke launcher, make it completely nuts! Remember its a GAME and games are supposed to be FUN and watch your userbase explode because I bet there are a TON of guys like me sick of the MW and other FPSes "realism" model and just want a chance to go totally nuts again without being another Q3 Arena clone.

Reply Score: 1

bnolsen Member since:
2006-01-06

shouldn't this game work well with a gamepad? Not as effective as a flight stick, but the controls should be capable.

Reply Score: 2

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

/looks around/ Nope, no gamepad here, in fact other than the guys that have HTPCs I don't know about with a gamepad either. And a decent gamepad on the PC will cost as much as a decent flightstick not to mention I tried MW 4 with a gamepad and it was horrible, I doubt WC would be any better.

In a way its like taking a game designed for a keyboard and mouse and jamming it onto a gamepad, sure you might get it to "kinda sorta" work but it really won't be fun. The layout of a flightstick has an analog accelerator, hat control, its really nothing like a gamepad and trying to map it to a gamepad at least IMHO seldom works.

This is why when flight sims were popular everyone and their dog had sticks, there really isn't anything that can replace them in a game made for them. problem is nobody owns them anymore, and at least in my case i have limited desk space and limited money and shelling out for a stick when i have exactly 3 games that will use it, MW 4, FS II, the new WC, just really doesn't make much sense.

If one is making a new game one really ought to design for the common input devices. if you want to add support for others fine, but don't make those the only real way to play the game without being frustrated, that only leads to less people willing to play your game.

Reply Score: 1

Dr.Mabuse Member since:
2009-05-19

Now compare it to MW3 or Call Of Duty or even Far Cry I from 2003...see the difference?


I do see the difference - they are worth playing for a few of hours and then they are a throw away item (hence the used game market.)

The irony of your argument is astounding. The big-name outfits have been rehashing the same ideas for years man! And you can bet they don't all use their own bespoke game engine either.

To just lump UrT into the "another Q3 rip-off" is doing it an extreme injustice. UrT doesn't play like anything else and it has fantastic replay value.

Reply Score: 1

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Dude its very first page says, and I quote " that (thanks to the ioquake3-code) does not require Quake III Arena anymore". Delude yourself all you want, its yet another Q3 Arena DM snoozefest. If running like a chicken with your head cut off is all you need to be entertained? then i'm happy for you, but you are gonna be awful lonely as most of those players are either in TF2 or the latest Call of Dooky.

Again its like saying Tux Racer is gonna take on Gran Turismo, its not even funny, its just sad. Its built off of VERY old code with an even older engine, it looks awful, and it offers absolutely nothing over Cube and a bazillion other Q3 Arena DM crap. let me guess, without even looking at the page, its DM, CTF, and a few team modes, yes? Wow, how did I know that? Because its the exact same thing the OSS world has been rehashing since the Q3 code was donated. I'm sure when their latest engine is released to the OSS community we'll see a bazillion DM/CTF games released using it too, same old same old.

Reply Score: 1

Dr.Mabuse Member since:
2009-05-19

I'm not denying for a moment that UrT based on the Q3 engine. But how is this any different the upteen different commercial titles built on ID or Unreal technology?

Give the game a try ... It might surprise you.

Reply Score: 1

sgtrock Member since:
2011-05-13

While I concede that most commercial games don't have legs, I can think of three answers to your question about commercial games with long term playability; Counter-Strike, Team Fortess, and Day of Defeat.

It's interesting, isn't it, that all three started as free, player developed mods? It's almost as if players actually design games that are, you know, fun to play! :-)

Edited 2012-03-29 14:42 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Dr.Mabuse Member since:
2009-05-19

It's interesting, isn't it, that all three started as free, player developed mods? It's almost as if players actually design games that are, you know, fun to play! :-)


Exactly! This is the essence of the back-room/bedroom game maker. They're not sitting there labouring over ways to squeeze more cash out of you (or selling you iteration n+10 of the same tired formula.)

A good game can stand the test of time, even if the sound and graphics begin to feel dated. That why so many people love emulators these days too!

Reply Score: 2

Evropi Member since:
2012-04-02

Yes, but the gaming community as a whole prefers AAA titles. Linux is not a gaming platform, because it doesn't have enough games. And you might not like CoD and the like, but you're not exactly the norm are you? You can spell well and you're visiting one of the techiest blogs on the net. The problem is that Call of Duty, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed and Mass Effect are all actually quite fun to play.

The good thing for Linux: PC gaming is dying anyway--mainly due to platform limitations (got to get an upgrade every so often, and it's an expensive habit, while consoles last a good 5 years) (and every PC is different, so bugs are usually more prevalent) which has pulled many consumers to the simplicity and carefree attitude of console gaming. Local multiplayer is also a lot more fun, but most of the no-lifers in the Linux community don't much recognise the value of social interaction on a couch.

So companies have naturally pulled support from the PC, so Linux's position has somewhat improved.
Still a long way to go though, and some more hardcore PC games would help. We can only hope everything moves over to Facebook Apps!

Reply Score: 1

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

It certainly is, and there are already some great titles out there.


As I wrote on my Google+ page a few days ago, all I'm seeing is very much simpified rehashes of some old game, completely relying on one or two silly gimmicks like e.g. "let's make it look like it's 8-bit, ZOMGSOCOOL!"

Or, they rely on it being multiplayer being enough of a reason for people to play it.

Sure, there is an audience for stuff like that, too, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with aiming for such an audience. However, people like me want more, I want visually pleasing graphics, I want an interesting single-player story -- even better if the story can be completed in co-op! --, I want it to be involved enough so that you can't just pick it up for 5 minutes and go do something else after that.

I do not want or need yet-another-brainless-multiplayer and I do not want or need stupid, gimmicky tricks like pixelized graphics. As such there's EXTREMELY little of anything worth mentioning on either the F/OSS- or Indie-games scene.

Reply Score: 2

Dr.Mabuse Member since:
2009-05-19

As I wrote on my Google+ page a few days ago, all I'm seeing is very much simpified rehashes of some old game, completely relying on one or two silly gimmicks like e.g. "let's make it look like it's 8-bit, ZOMGSOCOOL!"


I'm not to sure many people react like that, but anyway...

Or, they rely on it being multiplayer being enough of a reason for people to play it.


Fair call!

However, people like me want more, I want visually pleasing graphics, I want an interesting single-player story -- even better if the story can be completed in co-op! --, I want it to be involved enough so that you can't just pick it up for 5 minutes and go do something else after that.


I'm pretty much the polar opposite. I hate long-winded stories in games. That's for books and movies. I like being able to pick up a game, play for 30 minutes or an hour and then get on with (real) life.

Visually pleasing is a nice to have - but what constitutes visually pleasing to one person is not necessarily appealing to another. I, for example love the compact, clean look of YSFlight, vs. other more complicated (and frankly, bloated) flight simulators.

I do not want or need yet-another-brainless-multiplayer and I do not want or need stupid, gimmicky tricks like pixelized graphics. As such there's EXTREMELY little of anything worth mentioning on either the F/OSS- or Indie-games scene.


Look, this is very subjective.

I don't consider multi-player to be "brainless" - quite often you need to develop strategies with your team-mates to win a round. This can be a spontaneous and satisfying experience.

You consider pixelated graphics gimmicky, where as I appreciate the effort that pixel-artists put into their work (not only in games, but in the demo scene as well.)

I guess we are just different type of gamers and there is nothing wrong with that. To try and tie this back to the original article's theme, I think you're probably going to suffer more than myself with the proposed changes...

Reply Score: 1

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

I guess we are just different type of gamers


That's what I said. I'm just making it known that I'm displeased with the F/OSS - and Indie - scenes for not producing games catering for people more like myself. I'm not demanding them to do that either, voicing displeasement is not an act of demand, it's criticism.

That said, I hope someone will come out and cater to my needs, too, some day. I personally have plenty of ideas to go around, but I lack resources.

To try and tie this back to the original article's theme, I think you're probably going to suffer more than myself with the proposed changes...


Luckily not, I'm not a console-gamer. Console games tend to be 30% more expensive than their PC-counterparts, not to mention that e.g. Steam does their Christmas - and Summer - sales thingies where you can obtain just-released games for as little as 5e/pop.

Valve is apparently even working on the possibility of trading games, so they're going in the opposite direction of Sony and Microsoft.

Reply Score: 2

Dr.Mabuse Member since:
2009-05-19

That said, I hope someone will come out and cater to my needs, too, some day. I personally have plenty of ideas to go around, but I lack resources.


That's probably going to be the big stumbling block. If a modern day game requires hundreds of artists, musicians, coders and designers, I strongly suspect open source/freeware is never going to provide a title that appeals to your taste. It's a big expensive business getting all those things right. :-(

Edited 2012-03-30 00:46 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"let's make it look like it's 8-bit, ZOMGSOCOOL!"


Wait, what? We're not talking about mobile games, are we??

Reply Score: 2

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Thanks, nice to see i'm not the only one sick of the Q3 Arena 'hey lets all run like chickens with our heads cut off shooting at everything that moves' snoozefests. Seriously what does yet another FOSS Q3 Arena clone have to offer that I can't get from TF2 for free? Or pay the whole $5 and get HL1 or HL2 DM?

IMHO its old, its boring, its been done to death, and as you pointed out MP has become a crutch, so they don't have to come up with anything original or exciting. I for one have ZERO desire to deal with yet another MP only game based on Q3 Arena and just because its FOSS means nothing to me, plenty of free games to play now that are NOT Q3 Arena clones.

Reply Score: 1

deathshadow Member since:
2005-07-12

You said exactly what I was thinking - Much like crappy DRM that makes you HAVE to crack games you legitimately bought on PC -- the "penalize buying used" is more likely to cause piracy than prevent it.

Though at least on PC there's an outlet for the game makers to see a profit on their old properties; I don't go to the used bin anymore; I don't go to gamestop anymore...

Why? GoG! I mean, when Witcher 2 is up on GoG already -- how long before other titles follow suit? Rather than losing sales from the used bin, maybe they should sell them at *SHOCK* prices people are willing to pay after a year. Then they'll find people like me actually willing to pay money for their releases.

It really does come down to treating legitimate owners as if they are criminals... That's DRM in a nutshell particularly for games, given that how many games copy protection have gone unbroken? Oh wait, NONE. Penalizing the legitimate owners using something the majority of people running cracked copies will never have to deal with... Great plan guys!

Reply Score: 4

_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

Why? GoG! I mean, when Witcher 2 is up on GoG already


The witcher has the same developer/publisher as GoG so there isn't any suprise that it is there...

Between GoG and Steam the PC is well covered. However...

I don't have a gaming pc and I can no longer justify the cost of one (I also like some of the console exclusive games), so I'm stuck with consoles

Reply Score: 2

sgtrock Member since:
2011-05-13

Gaming rigs don't have to cost an arm and a leg any longer. The performance that you get with a bog standard Dell, HP, or homebrew desktop will satisfy all but the most hardcore gamer for a pretty reasonable price. Heck, I know some guys who game exclusively on laptops with no complaints, so whatever you're using to post here should work fine. As long as you're on a Windows box (or Windows partition of a multi-boot box), that is.

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I don't have a gaming pc and I can no longer justify the cost of one


As long as you have a reasonably new PC you should be ok. It's not like you really need a ninja rig with water cooling and a video card that draws more power than your AC unit to play games.

Reply Score: 3

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Dude, tried Redneck Rampage or Blood on GOG yet? If not you SO have to get them, they are fricking great! RR has you attacking trailer parks with titty guns (Yes you read that right, they have a titty gun) and dynamite to Mojo Nixon while eating moon pies and drinking beer for health, while Blood shamelessly rips off every horror cliche there is and one of the first levels is the cemetery from Phantasm!

I agree though that between Steam and GOG we PC gamers never had it so good, tons of games, all cheap and easy as "push button to get game". I mean why would I care if I can't sell a game if it only cost me $3? I don't because at that price it wouldn't be worth selling anyway, doesn't make the games less fun though.

Reply Score: 1

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Any attempts to kill second hand gaming are going to meet fierce resistance, and mass piracy.


LOL, you're kidding right? One thing about gamers is that they will scream, bitch, cry, and moan, but then they'll be there on launch day for the latest military shooter of the month, to take it up the ass, just like they always do. Why? Because gamers are lamers. You guys should carry a jar of Vaseline when you go to pick up your pre-ordered copy of Call of Duty 27. Then, maybe the pounding won't hurt so bad.

You mention $60 for new games, but more like $90 when you factor in all the DLC involved. Hell, some of these publishers aren't even hiding it anymore and just putting the DLC right on the disc (locked, of course). And why shouldn't they? I mean, if you're gonna f**k somebody, might as well be honest about it, right?

As for me, between Sony removing features of the PS3 and MS charging $60 to play online while showing ads on the dashboard, I sold all of my consoles, so I'm out. This generation was my last. The games are pretty horrible anyway now days.

Edited 2012-03-29 01:32 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Darkmage Member since:
2006-10-20

Err.. wrong. I've bought over $1000+ of PS3 games from the UK, and Sony will not be receiving any more business if I can't keep getting cheap games. $99/title is not justified. Currently I have ~20TB of storage at home and 26 legitimate PS3 games. If they decide to screw me over I'll just have 20TB of storage full of pirate PS3 games. Considering that 20TB costs about the same as 26 ps3 games but it'll store more games and do other things. They might want to be careful with what they do to their customers. Assuming the console makers will build walled content gardens, ditch hardcore and make tons of cash is also assuming Apple don't launch a better product later this year with iTunes store integration completely smashing their plans to bits.

Edited 2012-03-29 04:05 UTC

Reply Score: 2

morglum666 Member since:
2005-07-06

As a gamer I want to desperately disagree. I'd like to tell you that COD 124 will not sell $200 million on launch day. It will. People are sheep.

We will also probably be paying for games in installment plans as DLC has gone from every few games to every single games. I believe one of the dragon age games had content that you had to "unlock" with paid DLC. How crazy is that?

If they remove the used games market my strategy is two fold:

* Buy all the games I want to play on the console I own (xbox 360) from gamestop, etc
* Based on the user account model - Unless the games come heavily discounted (ala steam) I'm not going to be buying them. I'd rather not pirate but not every $60 game (to start) is worth $60.
* I might also just switch to PC where there is more freedom.



Morglum

Reply Score: 3

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

LOL, you're kidding right? One thing about gamers is that they will scream, bitch, cry, and moan, but then they'll be there on launch day for the latest military shooter of the month


I guess I'm not a gamer then, even though I've always imagined myself as one o_O I've never enjoyed military shooters, and I almost never buy anything on launch day because I can just wait 2-3 months and get it 50-70 percent off on Steam sale.


to take it up the ass, just like they always do.


Yes, and I actually quite enjoy it.

Why? Because gamers are lamers.


Hey, you've got something in common, then! Congratulations, mate!! ;)

Reply Score: 2

modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

not really....Indie makers wants access to users... a, electronic game market gives much higher volume....Just look at Steam.

Reply Score: 1

MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

The Android version of iFishing has a piracy rate of 98%.
http://mobilitydigest.com/ifishing-for-android-has-a-staggering-98-...

So you'll have to spare me the "massive piracy" threats, since pirates have zero scruples anyway. Android is as open as you can get, and iFishing only costs $3, yet that doesn't soften the hearts of the pirates as they still pirate iFishing like there's no tomorrow. The notion that piracy will increase due to "bad" behavior of Sony or Microsoft higher than it would've been anyway is laughable.

Pirates pirate not out of any altruistic motive or idealism, they pirate because they have zero respect for the hard work that creators put into the creation of their products. It makes absolutely no difference whether the creators appease them or not, pirates don't give a damn.

Tell me, what "bad" behavior did Rocking Pocket (the developer of iFishing) due to deserve a 98% piracy rate? What, is 3 dollars so burdensome that people just couldn't afford it, so had to resort to piracy? What, does Android's ability to side load apps have too many barriers (it has none), that people decided to "stick it to the man" by resorting to piracy, in order to teach Rocking Pocket and/or Google a lesson? Please...

Note that the iPhone and Windows Phone versions of iFishing have a much lower piracy rate. Why? Because those phones have the "closed garden" model, which is an inherent barrier against piracy. Google exhibits "good" behavior by allowing free side loading of apps, and the pirates rewarded Google by pirating the Android version of iFishing at a 98% rate. So much for appeasing pirates.

"If they just make the price of the game/software low enough and make the system 'open' enough, then folks wouldn't pirate!" Yeah, right. lol

Note: The above takes no position regarding "used games". I think folks should be able to buy used games and rent games. But I don't think a massive increase in piracy would result if such were blocked. Even if it did, game developers wouldn't care, since the increase in piracy would've been rentals or used game purchases anyway, which game devs see zero money from. Game devs think they'd see more revenue from blocking "used games" and rentals than from not, even is there were an increase in piracy as a result.

Edited 2012-03-29 09:11 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Darkmage Member since:
2006-10-20

The point is, I am a legitimate paying customer, who has not resorted to pirating any console games, but if the prices rise, I will consider pirating consoles much more seriously. What you want to argue about threats etc is irrelevant. I am sharing my personal experience with these consoles.

Currently I consider what I have with sony to be a good deal, and I am happy to pay for their products. However should that change then I would stop paying for their products. I am sure there are many others out there who will share that view with me. People pirate things for many reasons. Some do it to save money, some do it out of principle. It really varies. I stopped using Microsoft purely because they stopped supporting hardware products I bought within a year of my purchasing them. People will get mad about the lack of a second hand games market and increased prices WILL drive more people into piracy.

Edited 2012-03-29 09:23 UTC

Reply Score: 1

bjb1959 Member since:
2012-03-29

you don't even know how misguided your comments are. The real question is do we continue to allow entertainment companies to "sell" us stuff that they think we don't actually own but are just paying a fee to use. Let me give you a simpler example. Imagine not being able to buy a used chevy from your neighbor or a local dealer because the manufacturer didn't make any money from that sale. or if you do buy a used one, you can't start it until you pay Chevy more money or, preferably, just buy a new one from them. Same for your house, can't buy a used one cause the home builder won't make more money from the sale etc.

Reply Score: 2

Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

The Android version of iFishing has a piracy rate of 98%.
http://mobilitydigest.com/ifishing-for-android-has-a-staggering-98-...

That's extreme, however is there any information out there other than this tidbit with a miniscule chat screenshot, no links, no nothing? I checked on rocking pocketgames blog and there was no mention of this which I found weird, also I was very curious on how they came up with this piracy rate.

Reply Score: 2

RPGGuy Member since:
2012-03-30

Hi guys, I'm the author of iFishing and I posted the piracy information to my twitter account.

The stats are based on how much download data is being used on Amazon S3 for hosting the media files used by the game. According to them I am using roughly 3.3 TB of data per month (3460300 mb). The media files for one person to download is 20 mb. Divide the bandwidth by 20 mb to get the number of people downloading the full set of data, which is 173015. Now I only get about 2000 people who buy the game per month. These numbers are approximate but it is obvious there is a lot of piracy going on.

There are a lot of Android sites and illegal markets that are distributing my game without my permission. The only place it should be available is on the Google Play market and Amazon.

Reply Score: 1

Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24


The stats are based on how much download data is being used on Amazon S3 for hosting the media files used by the game. According to them I am using roughly 3.3 TB of data per month (3460300 mb). The media files for one person to download is 20 mb.

Ok, bummer. Not only do they pirate your game en masse, but also you have to pay for the distributed data. So only Android game data is hosted on Amazon S3, given that you can tell how much piracy is directly attributed to Android?

Reply Score: 2

RPGGuy Member since:
2012-03-30

Correct, only Android version needs download data. The other platforms can have larger downloads and have all the data included.

Reply Score: 1

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

It seems to me the answer is obvious, make the Android version $1 and if that doesn't work simply don't sell the Android version. one thing I have noticed is that Apple users are accustomed to paying for things, Android users really have no desire to. Have you thought about replacing the Android version with an ad supported model? Several other games and apps have done this and are doing quite well in the android market.

In the end one really has to adapt to the market and the users, do this and there will always be a way to monetize your app if its popular, but as we have seen with both the PC and the consoles the DRM is quickly cracked and then you just wasted the money and time to build DRM in for nothing.

Reply Score: 1

pc like xbox
by fran on Wed 28th Mar 2012 22:37 UTC
fran
Member since:
2010-08-06

"Valve, please do it. But first, release Cold Stream for us Xbox peasants already, damnit."

I imagine your tv has a HDMI input.
I use a Xbox 360 controller on my PC with steam games and it works with almost all the games.
I have the wired controller and an USB extension lead.
If you have a newish GPU you would have extra DVI/HDMI outputs for your tv. Otherwise there is many hdmi splitter/extenders to choose from.

Edited 2012-03-28 22:40 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Cold Stream
by ronaldst on Wed 28th Mar 2012 23:56 UTC
ronaldst
Member since:
2005-06-29

"Valve, please do it. But first, release Cold Stream for us Xbox peasants already, damnit."

How about join up the PC master race? What will you do on D day (May 15th)?

Reply Score: 4

market conditions...
by bnolsen on Thu 29th Mar 2012 00:55 UTC
bnolsen
Member since:
2006-01-06

Maybe this allows some of the new set-top boxes and new platforms like the raspberry pi to have a place to start taking over as a platform for indie developers. I know it's a long shot but we can hope...

Reply Score: 3

RE: market conditions...
by Flatland_Spider on Thu 29th Mar 2012 13:16 UTC in reply to "market conditions..."
Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

That would be pretty cool. Have a little Trim-Slice as a game console.

We could get back to NES/SNES days where the console was $90, or less, rather then the $600 monstrosities we have now.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by steogede2
by steogede2 on Thu 29th Mar 2012 00:55 UTC
steogede2
Member since:
2007-08-17

I would have thought that the used market is one of the things that is driving the new market (at least for bricks an mortar sales). Only way some people can justify buying a new game is by paying the reduced price they get for trading in an older game.

People aren't going to suddenly have more money to pay for games, and even if they are, most won't be willing to pay it. They can't expect that people will pay the same price for something that no longer has any resale value.

Reply Score: 2

About Cold Stream
by matthewp131 on Thu 29th Mar 2012 01:50 UTC
matthewp131
Member since:
2011-09-21

Cold Stream is fun, but not worth crying for. You should be demanding Suicide Blitz. Not only is Suicide Blitz the best custom campaign out there, but it has an entire series of Portal test chambers as an Easter Egg before the finale.

Reply Score: 2

Only MS and Sony?
by modmans2ndcoming on Thu 29th Mar 2012 02:42 UTC
modmans2ndcoming
Member since:
2005-11-09

Because Steam hasn't done that already?

Reply Score: 2

Comment by ilovebeer
by ilovebeer on Thu 29th Mar 2012 03:05 UTC
ilovebeer
Member since:
2011-08-08

Trying to kill the used games market in an attempt to force new game sales growth will do nothing but come back to bite these companies in the ass.

You need a good balance of give & take with customers, not take take take take take. These companies know better but apparently they need to be reminded of that.

Reply Score: 4

Books
by rexstuff on Thu 29th Mar 2012 03:16 UTC
rexstuff
Member since:
2007-04-06

What happened to books?

You can buy a book, and read the book. You can then sell the book, or loan the book out to your friends. You can buy a used book from a used book store, or borrow it from a library.

But with video games, for some reason (and to a lesser extent, movies and music), this simple and effective model does not apply. When you buy a video game, you don't own the game. You own a licence to play the game. Publishers don't want you to buy it used, let alone loan it to a friend. Imagine how the publishers would react if someone had the audacity to suggest a video game 'library'. If someone proudly proclaimed that they refused to buy used books because they want to support book publishers, we would all look at him like he was nuts.

So what's different? Why does this simple, common sense approach to books not apply to video games?

Sure, they're expensive to make. Sure, they're easy to copy, being digital. But that seems like no excuse to me. Media is media. I don't purchase a licence to read a book.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Books
by Soulbender on Thu 29th Mar 2012 04:01 UTC in reply to "Books"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

So what's different? Why does this simple, common sense approach to books not apply to video games?


Because the It industry is special. Unfortunately that's not special in a good way but in the "short bus" kind of way.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Books
by bassbeast on Thu 29th Mar 2012 10:03 UTC in reply to "Books"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

I'm sorry, haven't you heard? They have these things called 'eBooks' now that guess what? Just like the games and shows with the lock in. Don't think they'll take over? Amazon is already paying authors to have Kindle exclusives and all it'll take is for them to score the next Twilight or Harry Potter for eReaders to become the next iPod. Have you SEEN how cheap they are selling the Kindles? We are talking about $79 for a screen that can be read in ANY light and carry thousands of books!

Sadly my friend you are gonna end up with TWO choices, choose one...be a pirate, or be locked in, that's it. As for why its different its because the publishers lobbied and got all these laws like DMCA passed and now everyone is playing monopoly. By locking them down and putting always on DRM not only do they kill used games, but they'll kill the retail games as well! How many EA games can you not play the MP on now? last I checked nearly all of their 09 and some of their 010 games have had MP killed. Want to play online? Well you can only play by buying our NEW game! They'll be able to do the same with SP thanks to always on DRM, just you watch.

Oh and here's something that will cook your noodle as with the current electronic media they get to have the protections of BOTH but the liabilities of NEITHER. Here is what I mean "Oh you want to make a copy, i'm sorry but you only bought a LICENSE not the media, want it in another format you need to pay again" which is followed by "Oh you scratched you disc and want another one? oh I'm sorry but you do NOT have a license you bought the MEDIA and now that its trashed you have to go buy another one!" This is total insanity and is a classic "heads i win, tails you lose" as they get the protections of BOTH but none of the obligations. must be nice to be able to buy double standards like that.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Books
by sagum on Thu 29th Mar 2012 10:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Books"
sagum Member since:
2006-01-23

Real book lovers know that paper books will never go away. We've already read enough paper books to know that without them, when skynet takes over we'll not have access to computers initally and we'll have lost the way to lookup information and won't be able to shut it down.

Seriously though, there is something special about the musty smell, the texture of a book, its pages, the weight and size of each one as you flick the pages taking in the story or information that they contain.

the most you get from a ebook is the sore eyes and recharging.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Books
by Soulbender on Thu 29th Mar 2012 10:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Books"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Real book lovers know that paper books will never go away.


Like 8-track tape and vinyl records....

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Books
by bassbeast on Thu 29th Mar 2012 18:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Books"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Did you not read my post? It is ALREADY going the way of the 8 track. There are a ton of books right this very minute on Amazon that you CAN NOT BUY except for Kindle. Now what do you think will happen if they score the next Twilight or Harry potter? it'll be no different than every other time that a more inconvenient format was "better' be it laserdisc, vinyl, DAT, etc. What you will see is the masses trample over themselves to pick up $79 kindles so they can stand around the watercooler discussing the latest "Hip" book and guys like you will be left behind.

Wish it weren't so but look at how many wallet raping DRM choked games get bought every day because its the "hip" game to play. The masses don't know, don't care, as long as they can be part of the herd and be in the loop. sadly we've seen it time and time again where the users happily give away their freedoms for more convenience.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Books
by Thomas2005 on Thu 29th Mar 2012 18:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Books"
Thomas2005 Member since:
2005-11-07

Did you not read my post? It is ALREADY going the way of the 8 track. There are a ton of books right this very minute on Amazon that you CANNOT BUY except for Kindle. Now what do you think will happen if they score the next Twilight or Harry potter? it'll be no different than every other time that a more inconvenient format was "better' be it laserdisc, vinyl, DAT, etc. What you will see is the masses trample over themselves to pick up $79 kindles so they can stand around the watercooler discussing the latest "Hip" book and guys like you will be left behind.

Wish it weren't so but look at how many wallet raping DRM choked games get bought every day because its the "hip" game to play. The masses don't know, don't care, as long as they can be part of the herd and be in the loop. sadly we've seen it time and time again where the users happily give away their freedoms for more convenience.

What you say is true, but J.K. Rowling has put a potential crimp in that plan by releasing the Harry Potter e-books without encryption(i.e. DRM) to prevent being bound to one device.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Books
by bassbeast on Sun 1st Apr 2012 17:35 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Books"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Uhhhh...what does she have to do with anything? I said the NEXT Twilight or Harry Potter. Those two series are old now, now its Hunger games and soon there will be a new "hip" book everyone will want to read. What happens if that book is a Kindle exclusive? Bye bye regular books as the masses will buy the kindle to read the hip book and since they already have it, why not just buy books for it instead?

This is why Amazon is being VERY smart in buying up exclusives left and right, because they know that all it takes is ONE, just one, to become the hip new watercooler book and the BAM, they got the market by the throat.

I wish it weren't so friend, but we've seen superior formats die because something else was more convenient, the masses only care about easy and being hip.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Books
by sgtrock on Thu 29th Mar 2012 14:50 UTC in reply to "RE: Books"
sgtrock Member since:
2011-05-13

Or choose option 3; support vendors who don't follow predatory practices. Baen Publishing and O'Reilly Publishing come to mind in the e-book world. Battlefront.Com and GoG.Com come to mind in the gaming world.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Books
by Mrokii on Thu 29th Mar 2012 12:53 UTC in reply to "Books"
Mrokii Member since:
2011-01-04

It's not only phyiscal books. A far better example (imho) are electronic equipment. Or cars. Or furniture. Taken the stance of game and music companies, why don't we pay our car manufacturer a share whenever we sell our used car? Or better yet, let's make a law that completely prohibits the sale of used cars. Now that would drive economy, wouldn't it?

Reply Score: 3

Consoles less reliant on gamers
by xnef1025 on Thu 29th Mar 2012 03:18 UTC
xnef1025
Member since:
2009-07-10

Check today's newsfeeds. Streaming is overtaking gaming as the main use of consoles. "Game" console makers are just about to the point where they don't need "gamers" anymore. They just need COD players, and Elder Scrolls players, and Uncharted players, and Madden players, etc. Individual sets of tens of millions of people that may only play 2 or 3 different franchises ever but love to rent movies or buy music in between games. They are going to abandon the hardcore gamers and make a crap-ton of money doing it.

Reply Score: 1

Socioeconomics
by transami on Thu 29th Mar 2012 04:05 UTC
transami
Member since:
2006-02-28

The new game market became an (almost entirely) rich kid phenomena a long time ago. I find it rather depressing to witness the stratification of young people today by socio-economic class b/c of the games they can afford to play. This turn of events will serve to make that stratification substantially more severe.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by v_bobok
by v_bobok on Thu 29th Mar 2012 06:03 UTC
v_bobok
Member since:
2008-08-01

No Cell BE in PS4? Well, okay...

Reply Score: 1

Didn't Apple do this Already?
by posaune on Thu 29th Mar 2012 07:26 UTC
posaune
Member since:
2008-10-06

Every time I download an app from Apple's app store, I ponder that I have no way of sharing, giving, re-selling, throwing away that app.

Pretty much all digital distribution is the same. You no longer own anything that you've paid for.

And you're saying it's coming to physical media as well?

Reply Score: 6

No surprise
by Chrishas on Thu 29th Mar 2012 07:43 UTC
Chrishas
Member since:
2012-02-27

I'm not surprised by this, especially with Sony. After they removed the ability to install other operating systems it seems they'd do anything that serves their narrow minded management. despite most people not even caring if they could install Linux. Those who want to pirate games will do so, no matter what you try to enforce on them. I only ever had a PSP and after the hacking of gamers' accounts, I definitely won't be looking at Sony again.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Kivada
by Kivada on Thu 29th Mar 2012 08:37 UTC
Kivada
Member since:
2010-07-07

Linux? Check. Desura? Check. Gamolith? Check. Playdeb? Check. Humble Indie Bundles? Check.

What am I missing?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Kivada
by bassbeast on Thu 29th Mar 2012 09:44 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kivada"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

A multibillion dollar industry that wouldn't pee on your OS if it were on fire because you don't allow any DRM? Dude bringing up Linux in a talk about gaming is like saying Tux Racer can compete with Gran Turismo or that Gimp is a replacement for photoshop.

On their absolute BEST month the indie Linux games don't make what someone like EA makes in a single day. heck you might as well comment on an article about TV "All I do is read books!" for how relevant your comment is. You might as well say we should all go back to the NES for all the point Linux has with regards to gaming, heck even Moz disabled graphics acceleration because the drivers stink.

So I'm sorry but while you might be able to claim that Linux makes a good office box claiming those fifty bazillion Q3 Arena clones is in the same league as the latest AAA titles isn't even funny, its just delusional.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Kivada
by Kivada on Thu 29th Mar 2012 17:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kivada"
Kivada Member since:
2010-07-07

I dunno, there seems to be plenty to keep the average person occupied for a VERY long time. Here are just a few of the games announced since the start of the year that I'm interested in, it's not even counting all the games that have been announced or released yet. You wont find a single Quake or Unreal clone in the bunch.

Released
Wakfu - Square Enix
Mini Ninjas - Square Enix
From Dust - Ubisoft
Arx Fatalis/Libertatis
AirMech
Warlock's Gauntlet
Rijn the Specpyre
Botanicula
Mari0
OilRush
Caster

To be released
Wasteland 2
Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs
Depth Hunter
Deep Black: Reloaded
Starfarer
Cradle
Faster Than Light
Dear Esther
3079
Quantum Unleashed
Legend of Grimrock
Gunpoint

And now with insignificantly small companies like Ubisoft and Square Enix looking to bring several games to Linux http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/03/look-at-3d-native-client-games-c...

Not to mention Double Fine(Psyconauts, Grim Fandango) bringing their next 2 games to Linux after their overwhelming success with their Kickstart.

So no, I'm not hurting for games and things are only getting better, just have a look at the Desura store http://www.desura.com/platforms/set/linux

Edited 2012-03-29 18:01 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Greed is good
by Soulbender on Thu 29th Mar 2012 09:32 UTC
Soulbender
Member since:
2005-08-18

Gordon Gecko would be proud of these guys.
If the book industry picks up on this they will soon lobby for the abolishing of libraries (come on, it's a profit killer and who really needs older stuff anyway) and any book you buy will be tied to you as a person.

Reply Score: 4

Piracy for the win!
by bassbeast on Thu 29th Mar 2012 09:37 UTC
bassbeast
Member since:
2007-11-11

And yet again the pirated version will be the BETTER version, as you won't be paying a cent and then will only have to buy the few games you want to play MP.

But it just goes to show you have disgusting greed can kill the golden goose, because there are many that trade in their games to buy MORE games, which of course without used games i have a feeling a LOT of those new game sales are gonna dry up and blow away like a fart in the breeze. many folks i know only buy new because they know they can beat it and then trade it back for a good portion of their money back towards another game, if this is taken away? Well all those games that aren't some uber AAA title like Diablo III will just gather dust on the shelf. watch a LOT of game houses go under too, as one flop is all it takes to wipe you out today.

I'm just glad i got my boys off the consoles and on to Steam. I built my youngest a nice quad for less than $350 and thanks to a sale at tiger i just finished up the new 6 core for the oldest which is just $329 after the rebates. Now I won't have to worry about stupid consoles or ripoff prices, instead they can just kick back and enjoy the steam sales like I do.

I don't think Gabe would be stupid enough to jump into the console wars, not when there are still 3 in the race, more likely he will get together with AMD and Nvidia and come up with something like AMD's Fusion, where you have set low/medium/high specs that the OEMs can place a sticker on a PC. That way the customer only has to look at the sticker and they'll know whether they can play the latest games and at what level of graphics.

Reply Score: 3

Non sense
by airwedge1 on Thu 29th Mar 2012 12:50 UTC
airwedge1
Member since:
2006-02-22

This whole concept of the publisher not getting any money from the original sale is complete non-sense. Many people would not buy the new game if they knew they could not sell the game and get something back out of it. The publisher did get money from a video game that was sold. They got the original $60 from the game. Whether Joe or Suzy is playing the game makes no difference, one copy is being used at all times.

Last time I checked games are bought not licensed. First sale doctrine applies, and becomes no different then selling a car. Do car dealerships get more money when one of their buyers sells the car? Of course not.

I won't be buying into the next generation of video games, if this non sense continues.

Reply Score: 3

So, i will buy a Wii U ..
by churlish_Helmut on Thu 29th Mar 2012 16:59 UTC
churlish_Helmut
Member since:
2010-04-12

Wii U. The last Next Generation Console, you can buy as it seems.

Damnit- future seems to be very dark for Gamers. PS4, Xbox 720, Steam. Bulls***... all of it.

Reply Score: 1

PC games too!
by BushLin on Thu 29th Mar 2012 17:21 UTC
BushLin
Member since:
2011-01-26

The last two PC games I bought (FIFA 12 and F1 2011) would not even install without signing up to, downloading and installing some Steam like service even though I bought them in DVD format and not trying to circumvent any anti-piracy measures.

Fairly sure this would not only (at best) hinder a used sale of these copies but potentially stop me installing or playing these in years to come when support for these titles is finished.

To be honest these games are't classics but I'm seriously concerned that unlike all the games I've bought during my life, I won't be able to return to games like these when I'm really old and even more nostalgic.

Edited 2012-03-29 17:28 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Kinect
by jpobst on Thu 29th Mar 2012 21:10 UTC
jpobst
Member since:
2006-09-26

"I had to enter four Windows serial key-sized codes when starting up Kingdoms Of Amalur: Reckoning. Using a controller."

At the very least, I should be able to hold those damn cards up to my Kinect rather than having to type them in.

Reply Score: 1

Brave New World
by btrimby on Thu 29th Mar 2012 21:19 UTC
btrimby
Member since:
2009-09-30

Ending is better than mending. The more stitches, the less riches.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Luminair
by Luminair on Sat 31st Mar 2012 02:30 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30

The war on ownership continues! Will you fight?

Reply Score: 3

bolomkxxviii
Member since:
2006-05-19

What most people seem to miss is this will eventually end up like Microsoft's "plays for sure" fiasco. Will both Sony and Microsoft run the authentication servers forever? They will have no incentive to do so once the following generation of consoles is released. In fact, they will have a lot of incentive to shut them down and force everyone to buy new consoles and all their games again. As soon as an entire generation of consoles and games becomes useless people will understand just how bad this move really is for gamers.

Reply Score: 2

They'd get sued
by jefro on Sun 1st Apr 2012 21:10 UTC
jefro
Member since:
2007-04-13

They might be thinking about it but a group of lawyers would take that case in a day or so.

Reply Score: 2

FSF hipsters everywhere
by Evropi on Mon 2nd Apr 2012 16:49 UTC
Evropi
Member since:
2012-04-02

Guys, it's not a "people vs the corporations" situation here. I read an article on Kotaku (a big gaming blog) on Gamestop's opposition to these measures. *They* are guys who'll really get things done. In fact, they threatened to boycott the next Xbox's games in case that happens because they'd see such a huge profit loss. And Gamestop has some of the worst working conditions around, I have to mention.

The way Xbox Live and PSN work, as well as the enormous increase in titles where multiplayer is a big component means console piracy will have to die. I had chipped PlayStation 1 and PlayStation 2 consoles exclusively with pirated games, but that era has come to an end. Here in Greece, ever since the advent of the PS1, several shops popped up that sold exclusively pirated games for PC and consoles. Because no-one had internet connections for a long while, the boom happened in about 2007, the year before this dreadful recession.

But anyway. Gamers will take it. Free software evangelists and the like are the only consumers that will seriously oppose it. And pretend Linux is worthy as a gaming platform--which it's not. I have bought most Call of Duty games since 4, and I have to say they're really fun to play. I know everyone loves hating on CoD, but it's a whole lot more fun to play in multiplayer (SP sucks, too scripted) that Quake 3 ripoff X (like Xonotic!) and all those games of a dying genre. And CoD 4 was very innovative, too. Finally, there are literally no decent open-source story-driven RPGs around. Another huge market. Lastly, open-source games are by nature stuck several years behind AAA titles in terms of the technology and often gameplay. And why am I focusing on open-source? Because only a select group of indie companies that produce half-decent proprietary "indie" games actually develop games for Linux. I still dual-boot Windows XP, and I have to inform you that I'm a *very* hardcore gamer and have owned an Xbox in the last and this generation, but these days I mostly do PC gaming as Xbox Live and the games are rather costlier than their PC counterparts. The fact my PC is getting old though seriously impedes my ability to play games, and that's one of the biggest downers with PC gaming.

And you know what? We need AAA titles like Assassin's Creed. And I'll stop about Linux there, because I'm going off-topic. Nevertheless, we'll see a lot less of truly fantastic games like AC because once you've finished them, you're unlikely to touch them again. They're sure linear, but they're easily some of the best games ever made. I hope we will still be allowed to buy used games. Because it's not piracy, for heaven's sake.

Reply Score: 1