Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 28th Aug 2012 18:18 UTC
Windows "Windows 8 changes a lot of things about how the operating system works, but one of the features Windows traditionalists will find jarring is the lack of a Start button. Although the button's functions are still present in various places, users may miss its easy click-and-start-typing familiarity. Well, Samsung's bringing it back. The all-in-one PCs Samsung unveiled this morning are the first Windows machines to sport the S Launcher, a simple widget that acts just like the old start button." This is not from The Onion. I repeat, this is not from The Onion.
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Oh dear
by MOS6510 on Tue 28th Aug 2012 18:24 UTC
MOS6510
Member since:
2011-05-12
RE: Oh dear
by Mellin on Tue 28th Aug 2012 18:50 UTC in reply to "Oh dear"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06
RE[2]: Oh dear
by MOS6510 on Tue 28th Aug 2012 18:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Oh dear"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

The dock comes in many shapes and sizes, but Samsung picked the OS X one as inspiration.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Oh dear
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 28th Aug 2012 18:58 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Oh dear"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

A dock is literally a row of icons. That's it. It was in Windows 1.0. It was in the first Acorn machines. It. Is. A. Row. Of. Icons.

If you ever needed even more proof this industry is completely and utterly ruined, this is it.

Reply Score: 6

RE[4]: Oh dear
by sagum on Tue 28th Aug 2012 19:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Oh dear"
sagum Member since:
2006-01-23

Yes, that is true, but who owns the patent to it?

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Oh dear
by MOS6510 on Tue 28th Aug 2012 19:03 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Oh dear"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Not according to the dictionary, but as usually you have your own set of definitions. :-p

Let's leave it at that, because it so meaningless that Apple probably won't put any time in it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Oh dear
by BallmerKnowsBest on Tue 28th Aug 2012 21:13 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Oh dear"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

Not according to the dictionary, but as usually you have your own set of definitions. :-p


Right, because the more relevant definition here would obviously be "a usually wooden pier used as a landing place or moorage for boats" or "the part of an animal's tail left after it has been shortened".

Let's leave it at that, because it so meaningless that Apple probably won't put any time in it.


Ahahahaha, when has that ever stopped them before?

Reply Score: 5

RE[6]: Oh dear
by MOS6510 on Wed 29th Aug 2012 06:32 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Oh dear"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

I just don't think "a row of icons" defines what people refer to as the/a dock.

If that was the case you'd have a lot of docks and a useless dock process running.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Oh dear
by mrstep on Wed 29th Aug 2012 15:49 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Oh dear"
mrstep Member since:
2009-07-18

NeXT had a dock. OS/2 had a dock. The Win 95 task bar was (debatably) an ugly version of a dock (ignoring the launching aspect). Nobody is saying that implementing a dock is novel.

There are flat docks, disjointed docks, tile docks, any number of ways to make it look, yet Samsung ends up copying Apple again with a shelf under the icons, including icon reflections on it. Seriously?

Whether it's legal for Samsung to do it, and whether the legal system is screwed up is another issue,... But. It. Is. Just. A. Copy. Again.

Apparently that's what Samsung does. Hopefully you never come up with any product idea that Samsung takes interest in. ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Oh dear
by elektrik on Wed 29th Aug 2012 19:43 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Oh dear"
elektrik Member since:
2006-04-18

Don't forget the Microsoft Office 97 "Shortcut Bar" that you could add icons to...

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Oh dear
by Mellin on Wed 29th Aug 2012 20:23 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Oh dear"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

so apple sect members thinks that what apple have been using can't be used by samsung

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Oh dear
by Soulbender on Tue 28th Aug 2012 19:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Oh dear"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Yeah, we better stop this whole "being inspired" thing. Surely that can't be good for innovation ;)

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Oh dear
by MOS6510 on Tue 28th Aug 2012 19:13 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Oh dear"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Samsung - Being Inspired

Hum, this does have marketing potential.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Oh dear
by nej_simon on Tue 28th Aug 2012 20:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Oh dear"
nej_simon Member since:
2011-02-11

Project Looking Glass, an ugly java based desktop by Sun Microsystems, had a dock that looked just like that. It was demoed for the first time in 2003 ie. 4 years before Apple created a similar dock. Contrary to what some people (and apple) think, not every UI feature implemented by Apple is invented by them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Looking_Glass

Interestingly, Apple claimed that PLG infringed on their IP and threatened to sue Sun.

Reply Score: 9

RE[4]: Oh dear
by Morgan on Wed 29th Aug 2012 11:03 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Oh dear"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

And here I thought the OS X Dock was inspired by (and in early versions, even had legacy code from) the NeXTSTEP Dock as it existed in the late 80s through the mid-late 90s.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way right?

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Oh dear
by Mellin on Wed 29th Aug 2012 15:23 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Oh dear"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

Acorn Computers had a dock before Nextstep

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Oh dear
by nej_simon on Wed 29th Aug 2012 19:04 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Oh dear"
nej_simon Member since:
2011-02-11

And here I thought I was replying to a post that claimed that Samsung copied the visual style of the OSX dock when in fact another desktop environment used the same visual style way before Apple.

But hey, don't let your lack of actually having read the thread get in the way when you want to reply right?

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Oh dear
by Morgan on Wed 29th Aug 2012 19:12 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Oh dear"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

My point was that the concept of a dock goes much further back than Samsung/Apple. Apple inherited the dock concept and code when they absorbed NeXT, and as Mellin pointed out, it existed before NeXT too.

To put it another way, electric guitars have had magnetic coil pickups since the 1930s, but you don't see Yamaha suing Fender because they both use them. That's because the concept has been around longer than either company has been making them.

And the reason I replied to you in that tone was because you are incorrect in the first place; Apple had a dock in the very first version of OS X, which was a few years before Project Glass.

Edited 2012-08-29 19:14 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Oh dear
by MOS6510 on Wed 29th Aug 2012 19:32 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Oh dear"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Docks there are many, shapes and sizes, but the Samsung one looks like the Apple one, not like the Acorn one.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Oh dear
by Mellin on Tue 28th Aug 2012 22:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Oh dear"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

Apple doesn't own the dock

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Oh dear
by MOS6510 on Wed 29th Aug 2012 06:37 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Oh dear"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Well, it's hard to tell who owns what these days.

For company image I don't think it's wise after getting countless accusations of copying Apple and loosing a court case about it to come up with a Windows launcher that looks like the OS X dock.

They're are creating an image that they copy Apple which will cause people to point to Apple on any new Samsung product even when the resemblance is so remote that it should requires a lot if imagination.

http://t.co/8vwbEycd

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Oh dear
by Mellin on Wed 29th Aug 2012 08:39 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Oh dear"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

so it's the apple have used it now no one else can use it!

Edited 2012-08-29 08:40 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Oh dear
by MOS6510 on Wed 29th Aug 2012 08:45 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Oh dear"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Anyone can use it as far as I am concerned. It may not be very original, but people are used to it.

But if you are called Samsung it may be wiser to be a little more creative or base the look on another dock/launcher and not the OS X one.

People with half a brain cell will start making links with Apple product even when there are no (intentional) ones and Samsung's brand name will start to feel like a cheap Asian copy of premium western products.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Oh dear
by TM99 on Wed 29th Aug 2012 13:41 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Oh dear"
TM99 Member since:
2012-08-26

That is ludicrous. You do realize that Samsung had this in development prior to the verdict? Why would they not continue through on that development choice? Apple did not create the 'dock'.

It may not seem like it but there is a growing backlash coming for Apple in this Pyrrhic victory. I am seeing article after editorial after commentary discussing how this is going to cost both businesses & consumers, stifle global trade, close international markets to Apple, and at least in the short term hamper innovation.

I have used Apple products (and Microsoft & Unix/Linux too) for over 30 years. I won't buy another. I don't even own a current 'smartphone' but if I must get one in the near future it definitely won't be an iPhone. I am not alone.

And I am not just an IT 'fanboy' picking a favorite team. I am a professional in different fields who can and does influence choices of the platforms that we do our work on. Apple's corporate hubris is not good for the market. To trusts such an entity as it is becoming is just asking for trouble in the long-term even if the short-term popularity and 'gee-whiz' seems so tempting and appealing. There are very good reasons why NASA recently chose an Android based Samsung phone for a satellite project and not an iPhone. The hardware & the software are both open.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Oh dear
by Mellin on Wed 29th Aug 2012 08:42 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Oh dear"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

they could have looked at project looking glass (predates the dock)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Oh dear
by MOS6510 on Wed 29th Aug 2012 08:47 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Oh dear"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Well, probably not, but let's say they have. Nobody will believe them after a whole streak of Apple inspired things and a conviction.

A lot of geeks will have problems remembering Project Glass, let alone the consuming masses.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Oh dear
by Mellin on Wed 29th Aug 2012 15:19 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Oh dear"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06
It's in the wrong place
by BrianH on Tue 28th Aug 2012 18:58 UTC
BrianH
Member since:
2005-07-06

So, Samsung is adding their own dock with a start button analog, but putting the button somewhat in the middle more or less, depending on how many other things are in the dock, rather than putting it in a fixed location you can access by muscle memory. It's not even in the corner. I don't mind Samsung copying Apple, but why do they tend to copy Apple's mistakes?

Reply Score: 6

RE: It's in the wrong place
by sagum on Tue 28th Aug 2012 19:01 UTC in reply to "It's in the wrong place"
sagum Member since:
2006-01-23

One can only assume they like the look of the court room ;)

Reply Score: 4

RE: It's in the wrong place
by Verunks on Tue 28th Aug 2012 21:15 UTC in reply to "It's in the wrong place"
Verunks Member since:
2007-04-02

it's not clear from the screenshots but it looks like the dock is not on top of other windows, so if you want to access it you have to show the desktop first, kinda pointless imho if it's not something that you can access fast enough since that's the main problem with using metro instead of the the windows 7 start menu for launching programs or search for files

Reply Score: 1

Way back in 2000
by Vinegar Joe on Tue 28th Aug 2012 19:05 UTC
Vinegar Joe
Member since:
2006-08-16
Re: The Onion
by fadingdust on Tue 28th Aug 2012 19:19 UTC
fadingdust
Member since:
2009-11-05

Thom, you slay me. Congrats, you know America.

Reply Score: 1

That video in the comments
by ronaldst on Tue 28th Aug 2012 19:30 UTC
ronaldst
Member since:
2005-06-29

About the Ewoks is disturbing. Just like people who can't cope with a Start screen. I can even CTRL+TAB to get to the list of installed Applications. I don't remember that working with the Old Start menu.

Edited 2012-08-28 19:31 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Someone needs to fix it.
by jefro on Tue 28th Aug 2012 19:39 UTC
jefro
Member since:
2007-04-13

I try windows 8 every few days and no matter what, it still stinks!

The option to put it back to windows 7 is the only good choice.

Windows 8 doesn't seem to be any faster or better or offer any other feature I might wish. It is almost impossible to turn off. Too complicated to use anything. Idiots at MS must be trying to lose money.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Someone needs to fix it.
by ze_jerkface on Tue 28th Aug 2012 20:39 UTC in reply to "Someone needs to fix it."
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

Ballmer has gone mad over the iPhone and has doubled down on an idiot named Sinofsky. I have no doubt that the majority of MS employees would be against Windows 8 in its current state.

But I'm sure a Windows 8 defender will at any moment tell us that we're afraid of change.

That leads to another question: Why are wheels round? We need change and progress. If you are against modern octagon shaped wheel design then you are afraid of change and stuck in the past. Octagon wheels are new and new is evolution. Efficiency is just an excuse used by change haters. I can't wait to drive on modernist octagon wheels and use an ad screen with a horizontal scroll bar to find my applications. I am an awesome tech embracing dude and I don't fear change. My ego depends on embracing this type of idiocy without question.

Edited 2012-08-28 20:41 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: Someone needs to fix it.
by avgalen on Tue 28th Aug 2012 20:42 UTC in reply to "Someone needs to fix it."
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

Almost impossible to turn off? How about you press CTRL+Alt+Del for once and see what happens

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Someone needs to fix it.
by ze_jerkface on Tue 28th Aug 2012 20:50 UTC in reply to "RE: Someone needs to fix it."
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

Are you and Nelson going to hang around Best Buy to help people navigate the invisible buttons?

I can see it now:
NO WAIT DONT LEAVE, WINDOWS 8 IS NOT A POS LIKE EVERYONE SAYS. JUST GIMME ANOTHER 10 MINUTES.

Good software doesn't need forum defenders. When Firefox 1.0 came out I didn't see continual explanations of why it doesn't actually suck. It took off with a wide variety of users because it was a clear improvement over IE6. I had non-technical people asking me if I had used it. My annoying clueless neighbor even came over to tell me about how great it was.

Wake the f*** up already. Windows 8 is shitty software. The fact that Samsung is doing this speaks volumes.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by v_bobok
by v_bobok on Tue 28th Aug 2012 19:46 UTC
v_bobok
Member since:
2008-08-01

And here... we... go!

Reply Score: 1

Open source does one better
by cmost on Tue 28th Aug 2012 21:07 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

This free open source app does one better. It not only puts the start button back in Windows 8 but has the ability to let users choose which style start menu they prefer. Best of all, this app has the ability to bypass Windows 8's stupid formerly-known-as-Metro thingy altogether. Now that's what I'm talking about!!

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/index.html

http://www.webpronews.com/windows-8-gets-the-start-button-back-with...

Edited 2012-08-28 21:08 UTC

Reply Score: 8

RE: Open source does one better
by Dr.Mabuse on Wed 29th Aug 2012 04:32 UTC in reply to "Open source does one better"
Dr.Mabuse Member since:
2009-05-19

I just tried this application on Windows 8 and it really is fantastic, thanks for the tip!

Actually, it's really good for Windows 7 too. Maybe I am morphing into a luddite, but the classic Start Menu really is much nicer (and intuitive) for me to use.

*shrugs*

Tip: Now add "7+ Taskbar Tweaker" to really make it feel like home.

http://rammichael.com/7-taskbar-tweaker

Reply Score: 2

This doesn't surprise me
by Luke McCarthy on Wed 29th Aug 2012 00:06 UTC
Luke McCarthy
Member since:
2005-07-06

Vendors will see removing the Start button as too big of a risk. Microsoft have really jumped the shark this time.

Reply Score: 1

leos
Member since:
2005-09-21

Just like they layer their crap on top of Android, they are now layering crap on top of Windows. They should stick to making hardware. Their software is just atrociously bad.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by flappah
by flappah on Wed 29th Aug 2012 08:58 UTC
flappah
Member since:
2012-07-16

And there is Samsung again, spoiling it. Just stop it Samsung and release the OS as it is. Or develop your own.

Reply Score: 0

modmans2ndcoming
Member since:
2005-11-09

If you move your mouse tot he bottom right corner where you would expect the start menu to be, a preview of the start page appears..all you need to do is left click and it opens the start screen.

Look... I added the start menu back by just thinking about it for a second.

Reply Score: 3

hmm
by Mellin on Fri 31st Aug 2012 19:56 UTC
Mellin
Member since:
2005-07-06

apple trolls have been down voting my comments and up voting apple troll comments

Reply Score: 1