Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 7th May 2008 18:11 UTC, submitted by Dan Warne
Hardware, Embedded Systems As we all know, the Eee PC, running a modified Xandros, has been a major hit for Asus, and because of that, also a major hit for Linux. The device proved that a computer with a pre-installed Linux distribution can still be s successful machine, and many hoped that this would push Asus and other vendors to produce more computers with Linux pre-installed. This hope could be in vain after all if the new Windows XP-based Eee PC has anything to do with it.
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I thought about this...
by peejay on Wed 7th May 2008 18:44 UTC
peejay
Member since:
2005-06-29

I noticed that the XP eee was in this week's Best Buy ad, but I never remembered seeing a Linux one in there. Sounds like there could be more to that than I thought.

Reply Score: 7

Scared
by bolomkxxviii on Wed 7th May 2008 18:49 UTC
bolomkxxviii
Member since:
2006-05-19

Microsoft is terrified of any linux computer having broad market penetration and is likely subsidising the Windows version and putting pressure on Asus to sell more Windows versions than Xandros versions. When you have a near monopoly you will do almost anything to protect it. Even if it ends up costing Microsoft hundreds of millions, it is worth it to them. Just my $0.02.

Reply Score: 37

RE: Scared
by Morgan on Thu 8th May 2008 06:17 UTC in reply to "Scared"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Excellent observations. I personally think Asus was able to get a successful Linux-based laptop under Microsoft's radar simply because they were a relatively minor player in the portable market. Unlike Dell, who is constantly under pressure by Microsoft to under-advertise and devalue their own Ubuntu laptops and desktops, Asus was free to partner with Xandros quietly and successfully. Now that their EeePC has caused an explosion of interest in alternative OSes, Microsoft is having to play catch-up and attacking first in Australia where they have even more market penetration than here in the States. Once they really start turning the screws on Asus we'll see less and less of the Linux-based models available.

I think it's a desperate move by a giant whose head was in the clouds for such a long time he didn't notice the townspeople chopping away his feet until it was almost too late. Even Apple is seeing record-setting OS penetration while sales of Vista -- both on new PCs and boxed/OEM -- are stagnant compared to XP's first two years. I don't see Microsoft dying off any time soon, but there's a permanent shift brewing and I'm looking forward to it.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Scared
by trenchsol on Thu 8th May 2008 13:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Scared"
trenchsol Member since:
2006-12-07

I think that Xandros is a small company which must make profit from this. Microsoft is rich, they can accept temporary loss in order to gain in the future. They could afford themselves to give away XP for free, they are going to discontinue it anyway.

I don't think there was a conspiracy behind it.

DG

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Scared
by lemur2 on Thu 8th May 2008 13:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Scared"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I think that Xandros is a small company which must make profit from this. Microsoft is rich, they can accept temporary loss in order to gain in the future. They could afford themselves to give away XP for free, they are going to discontinue it anyway.

I don't think there was a conspiracy behind it.

DG


Regardless of any thought of "a conspiracy behind it" ... it still remains illegal in Australia to engage in what amounts to "predatory pricing" ... which the giving away of Windows XP in order to forestall people from using the Xandros alternative ... would certainly amount to.

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/816375

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Practices_Act_1974

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Scared
by Moredhas on Fri 9th May 2008 22:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Scared"
Moredhas Member since:
2008-04-10

People seem to forget the ACCC is utterly useless. You hear about them once in a blue moon, and they rarely ever win. If they couldn't beat Telstra, they aren't likely to beat Microsoft. They're not even likely to challenge Microsoft, even if they have a mile of paperwork thrown at them TELLING them to do it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Scared
by lemur2 on Sat 10th May 2008 06:23 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Scared"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

People seem to forget the ACCC is utterly useless. You hear about them once in a blue moon, and they rarely ever win. If they couldn't beat Telstra, they aren't likely to beat Microsoft. They're not even likely to challenge Microsoft, even if they have a mile of paperwork thrown at them TELLING them to do it.


I don't care. I have at least two solid lines of complaint to present to the ACCC, which the ACCC's own web pages say are valid things to bring complaints about.

The first is discriminatory pricing, or predatory pricing. In every other country it appears that the price of the Linux version with 20GB storage is the same as the Windows version with 12GB storage, but in Australia alone there is a differential.

The second complaint is product tying. If I want the 12GB model ... I am forced to buy Windows. If I want the Linux version, I am forced to buy the 20GB model. I'm not yet sure if I can get Windows on the 20GB model or not ... but either way there is certainly a case to present a claim of product tying.

So, when I am sure these announcements are official ASUS policy, then I will prepare a letter of complaint to the ACCC pointing out the ACCC's own policies and rules and how this product line is breaking them.

I will also send a copy of my letter of complaint (for their information) to a few suitable organisations:
http://danny.oz.au/free-software/
http://www.osia.net.au/
http://www.linux.org.au/
http://www.osv.org.au/
http://www.opensourcelaw.biz/


... and see what develops from there.

At the very least, it should prove interesting.

Edited 2008-05-10 06:26 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Scared
by lemur2 on Sat 10th May 2008 13:44 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Scared"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

The first is discriminatory pricing, or predatory pricing. In every other country it appears that the price of the Linux version with 20GB storage is the same as the Windows version with 12GB storage, but in Australia alone there is a differential.


OK, it looks like my evidence for "predatory pricing" just got a whole lot better.

First, a definition of "predatory pricing":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing

"Predatory pricing (also known as destroyer pricing) is the practice of a firm selling a product at very low price with the intent of driving competitors out of the market, or create a barrier to entry into the market for potential new competitors."

Then, a look at emerging news:

http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/hardware/laptops/news/ind...

"Microsoft plans to offer PC makers steep discounts on Windows XP Home Edition to encourage them to use that OS instead of Linux on ultra low-cost PCs (ULPCs). To be eligible, however, the PC vendors that make ULPCs must limit screen sizes to 10.2 inches and hard drives to 80G bytes, and they cannot offer touch-screen PCs.

The programme is outlined in confidential documents that Microsoft sent to PC makers last month, and which were obtained by IDG News Service."

... an excellent match, by any definition.

Microsoft: "If it is a 'ULCPC', here is our software virtually for free so that our competitor doesn't get a toehold".

It is interesting that an arbitrary breakpoint on the size of the hardware it runs on means that Microsoft suddenly feels bound to offer the same software for a huge discount.

Edited 2008-05-10 13:59 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Scared
by trenchsol on Sun 11th May 2008 12:51 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Scared"
trenchsol Member since:
2006-12-07

I guess that it is illegal elsewhere, but Microsoft was able to do it anyway. Maybe is hard to prove. Besides, XP is an "old" operating system, it should become cheap.

But, as someone mentioned here, Microsoft is willing to sell their product at discount price, or give it away, more often than in the past. I think that Microsoft has reached its upper limits.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Scared
by lemur2 on Thu 8th May 2008 12:42 UTC in reply to "Scared"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Microsoft is terrified of any linux computer having broad market penetration and is likely subsidising the Windows version and putting pressure on Asus to sell more Windows versions than Xandros versions. When you have a near monopoly you will do almost anything to protect it. Even if it ends up costing Microsoft hundreds of millions, it is worth it to them. Just my $0.02.


Without doubt this is the case.

The problem will be demonstrating that this is the case to the ACCC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Competition_and_Consumer_Co...

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is an independent authority of the government of Australia. It was established in 1995 with the amalgamation of the Australian Trade Practices Commission (TPC) and the Prices Surveillance Authority to administer the Trade Practices Act 1974 (Cth). Its mandate is to protect consumer rights, business rights and obligations, perform industry regulation and price monitoring and prevent illegal anti-competitive behaviour.


It is clearly "illegal anti-competitive behaviour" and also against "consumer rights & business rights" for Microsoft to be able to force Asus to not offer to Asus customers the option to get the best deal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Practices_Act_1974

The things that could potentially apply here I have shown in bold from the Wikipedia extract:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Practices_Act_1974#Part_IV:_Rest...

===================
These provisions prohibit:

* Most Price Agreements (see Cartel and Price-Fixing)

* Primary boycotts (an agreement between parties to exclude another)

* Secondary boycotts whose purpose is to cause substantial lessen competition (Actions between two persons engaging in conduct hindering 3rd person from supplying or acquiring goods or services from 4th)

* Misuse of market power - taking advantage of substantial market power in a particular market, for one or more proscribed purposes; namely, to eliminate or damage an actual or potential competitor, to prevent a person from entering a market, or to deter or prevent a person from engaging in competitive conduct.

* Exclusive dealing - an attempt to interfere with freedom of buyers to buy from other suppliers, such as agreeing to supply a product only if a retailer does not stock a competitor's product. Most forms of exclusive dealing are only prohibited if they have the purpose or likely effect of substantially lessening competition in a market.

* Third-line forcing: A type of exclusive dealing, third-line forcing involves the supply of goods or services on the condition that the acquirer also acquires goods or services from a third party. Third-line forcing is prohibited per se.

* Resale price maintenance - fixing a price below which resellers cannot sell or advertise

* Mergers and acquisitions that would result in a substantial lessening of competition

=====

... There is also a prohibition on "predatory pricing" of product on a market in order to remove a competitor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/816375

Finally, in Australia, AFAIK product "tying" is also illegal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tying_(commerce)
"Some kinds of tying, especially by contract, have historically been regarded as anti-competitive practices. The basic idea is that consumers are harmed by being forced to buy an undesired good (the tied good) in order to purchase a good they actually want (the tying good), and so would prefer that the goods be sold separately. The company doing this bundling may have a significantly large market share so that it may impose the tie on consumers, despite the forces of market competition. The tie may also harm other companies in the market for the tied good, or who sell only single components."

Edited 2008-05-08 12:49 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Yup. It stinks.
by spungo on Wed 7th May 2008 19:02 UTC
spungo
Member since:
2006-05-20

I like how they're trying to justify it with the smaller hard disk (on the XP version) -- but this revelation has a very bad smell to it. One gets the impression that the folks at Redmond were quietly soiling themselves when the Xandros Eee came out -- and was a success. I expect things went into a different gear once this had sunk in -- and now they're reacting by pulling out all the stops -- nay, racketeering tactics -- to get this trend reversed. Nothing scares them more than OEM adoption of Linux.

Edited 2008-05-07 19:04 UTC

Reply Score: 16

Should
by SoloDeveloper on Wed 7th May 2008 19:09 UTC
SoloDeveloper
Member since:
2008-03-16

They should sell the Linux eee Pc for the same price as the XP one, with the included better hardware specs.

that way, people can see how much they are actually losing in cash for the Microsoft Tax.

However, i suspect that Microsoft probably cut a deal with Asus to get the lower price, and i cant help but wonder if this is Really XP, or WinFLP with the XP UI added in...

Reply Score: 1

I don't like this title
by Manuel FLURY on Wed 7th May 2008 19:16 UTC
Manuel FLURY
Member since:
2005-07-05

Seriously, 12GB XP instead of 20GB Linux, it's not cheaper, it's just a lower hardware that justify the lower price.

Reply Score: 3

RE: I don't like this title
by TLZ_ on Wed 7th May 2008 19:22 UTC in reply to "I don't like this title"
TLZ_ Member since:
2007-02-05

Then where is the 12 GB Linux version?

(Although I agree the title is a tad sensationalistic)

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: I don't like this title
by sbergman27 on Wed 7th May 2008 19:33 UTC in reply to "RE: I don't like this title"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

While I'm usually not into conspiracy theories... this does seem a bit odd. Why would Asus decide not to offer the Linux unit with 12GB of flash? Unless someone did not want the non-MS unit to be beat out on price for PR reasons. It seems to me that in this low end market, having a unit offered at the lowest would be desirable. I can't help but wonder if Asus didn't have a little help from someone in deciding on the relative hardware and price points. I have no insider information, of course. It's just one of those things that make me go hmmmm....

Reply Score: 15

RE[3]: I don't like this title
by lemur2 on Wed 7th May 2008 23:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I don't like this title"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

While I'm usually not into conspiracy theories... this does seem a bit odd. Why would Asus decide not to offer the Linux unit with 12GB of flash? Unless someone did not want the non-MS unit to be beat out on price for PR reasons. It seems to me that in this low end market, having a unit offered at the lowest would be desirable. I can't help but wonder if Asus didn't have a little help from someone in deciding on the relative hardware and price points. I have no insider information, of course. It's just one of those things that make me go hmmmm....


I've been thinking about buying the cheaper 12GB XP variant, refusing the Windows EULA on first power-up (possibly I would wipe the disk of XP with witnesses, possibly right there in the store), and then demand a refund (as the Windows EULA apparently says I am entitled to) from the retailer.

Then I would put, say, Mandriva 2008.1 on it.

http://www.mandriva.com/enterprise/en/company/press/mandriva-presen...
http://eeepc.net/mandriva-20081-works-with-eee-pcs/

That could possibly put a spanner in the works.

Edited 2008-05-08 00:00 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE[4]: I don't like this title
by danieldk on Thu 8th May 2008 11:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I don't like this title"
danieldk Member since:
2005-11-18

Actually, the current wording in Windows licenses seems to be (at least in Vista):

"By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software. Instead, contact the manufacturer or installer to determine their return policy for a refund or credit."

I have seen manufacturers that simply state that their return policy is that you can get a refund for the whole machine, but not for the Windows license. The argumentation is that the Windows license is tied to the hardware (whatever that means).

Hopefully, your national laws give consumers more protection, because the EULA is probably not going to do it for you.

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: I don't like this title
by lemur2 on Thu 8th May 2008 12:12 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: I don't like this title"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I have seen manufacturers that simply state that their return policy is that you can get a refund for the whole machine, but not for the Windows license. The argumentation is that the Windows license is tied to the hardware (whatever that means).


Presumably the claim was that the hardware they were selling wouldn't work without Windows.

Clearly this is not the case for this model of EEEPC ... after all, the exact same hardware is being sold with Linux software.

So, if I went into a store and asked for the cheaper hardware but with Linux software, or no OS installed (and a refund for not using a Windows license) ... their previous excuse of "tied to the hardware" demonstrably falls down.

Car analogy ... can a car manufacturer (say Ford) force you to buy Bridgestone tyres with your new car purchase if you really wanted that model Ford but fitted with Goodyear tyres instead?

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: I don't like this title
by sbergman27 on Thu 8th May 2008 12:45 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: I don't like this title"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Presumably the claim was that the hardware they were selling wouldn't work without Windows.
...
Car analogy ... can a car manufacturer (say Ford) force you to buy Bridgestone tyres with your new car purchase if you really wanted that model Ford but fitted with Goodyear tyres instead?

Absolutely. And that is as it should be. Most dealers would probably agree to the tire swap as a matter of willingness to accommodate the customer and close the sale, but they certainly should not be mandated by law to sell the car à la carte. I resent the Windows tax as much as anyone. But computers sold with the OS, whatever it is, bundled, should be considered a unit from a legal perspective. You would not expect for them to be legally required to give you a refund on the video card if you send it back, although they may agree to do it anyway.

Note that this really does not have anything to do with any EULA.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: I don't like this title
by lemur2 on Thu 8th May 2008 13:01 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: I don't like this title"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"Presumably the claim was that the hardware they were selling wouldn't work without Windows.
...
Car analogy ... can a car manufacturer (say Ford) force you to buy Bridgestone tyres with your new car purchase if you really wanted that model Ford but fitted with Goodyear tyres instead?

Absolutely. And that is as it should be. Most dealers would probably agree to the tire swap as a matter of willingness to accommodate the customer and close the sale, but they certainly should not be mandated by law to sell the car à la carte. I resent the Windows tax as much as anyone. But computers sold with the OS, whatever it is, bundled, should be considered a unit from a legal perspective. You would not expect for them to be legally required to give you a refund on the video card if you send it back, although they may agree to do it anyway.

Note that this really does not have anything to do with any EULA.
"

No. Requiring the user to buy a particular brand of OS with a particular variant of the computer, when an alternative is clearly available, and both OSes are not from the same company as the computer maker, is clearly a case of product tying:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tying_(commerce)
"The basic idea is that consumers are harmed by being forced to buy an undesired good (the tied good) in order to purchase a good they actually want (the tying good), and so would prefer that the goods be sold separately. The company doing this bundling may have a significantly large market share so that it may impose the tie on consumers, despite the forces of market competition. The tie may also harm other companies in the market for the tied good, or who sell only single components."

It seems a clear-cut case that Asus has tied the Windows XP OS to the Asus EEEPC 900 model with 12GB storage.

Looking on the ACCC site and searching for the keyword "tying" gives us this result:

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/search/index.phtml?query=tying&colle...

Clearly then it is within the mandate and jurisdiction of the ACCC to investigate cases of product tying and prevent them from happening in Australia.

Edited 2008-05-08 13:12 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: I don't like this title
by DigitalAxis on Wed 7th May 2008 23:44 UTC in reply to "RE: I don't like this title"
DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

I recall reading somewhere that the reason they went with the 4 GB ROM + 8 GB SSD for Windows and the 4 GB ROM + 16 GB SSD was to make the costs the same for each version, and to make the Linux one that much more attractive.

Granted, all that means is we're liable to see lots of people buy the Linux version to stick Windows XP on it... I've found reviews that bragged how they never once used the Linux system.

Reply Score: 2

RE: I don't like this title
by gonzo on Wed 7th May 2008 20:16 UTC in reply to "I don't like this title"
gonzo Member since:
2005-11-10

Correct me if I'm wrong but can't you get 8 GB SD card for like $30-40, so XP version is still cheaper, is it not?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: I don't like this title
by Manuel FLURY on Wed 7th May 2008 20:23 UTC in reply to "RE: I don't like this title"
Manuel FLURY Member since:
2005-07-05

whatever, I don't think internal memory used in the eeePC is the same as an SD card, but personnaly I would prefer to buy the 20GB version ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: I don't like this title
by satan666 on Wed 7th May 2008 21:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I don't like this title"
satan666 Member since:
2008-04-18

I think it is better to buy the Windows version and install Mandriva 2008.1 (it is supposed to work out of the box, wifi and all the good stuff) or another Linux tailored for eeePC. Microsoft is loosing money with every computer sold with Windows because of the subventions. So the more computers are sold the worse for Microsoft. In addition, by buying the Windows eeePC you don't support Xandros (which has a patent deal with Microsoft).
But better than all this is to boycott eeePCs altogether.
Someone already mentioned that there are better choices on the market.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: I don't like this title
by gonzo on Wed 7th May 2008 21:23 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I don't like this title"
gonzo Member since:
2005-11-10

Microsoft is loosing money with every computer sold with Windows because of the subventions. So the more computers are sold the worse for Microsoft.


How is Microsoft losing money on this - I mean, how much does it cost MS to make copy of XP?? Like.. $1 or even less? Even then.. How exactly ARE they losing money if they are selling it for like $0?

It's not like with XBox 360 or PS3, you know, where they have hardware and manufacturing expenses.

Anyway, if you're buying XP model just because of that, you should see psychiatrist.

Edited 2008-05-07 21:32 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE[5]: I don't like this title
by stestagg on Wed 7th May 2008 22:51 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: I don't like this title"
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

The assumption is that Microsoft is paying ASUS a heavy subsidy to sell XP machines at a lower price than Linux machines.

Reply Score: 3

Earl Colby pottinger Member since:
2005-07-06

That is the point, they (Microsoft) can't be even selling it for $0.00 dollars per copy if the XP machine is cheaper than a Linux install which already is free from day one.

Somewhere Microsoft is paying money to ASUS to put out a cheaper machine than the Linux one. The lack of a 12GB Linux machine is also telling.

Why not bring out a 12GB Linux machine after-all? Why lose a possible market share by being cheaper than the competition?

If ASUS is paying even one cent per machine to Microsoft for the XP version then a Linux machine with the same specs would come out a number of dollars cheaper per machine (handling costs, paper work, serial number tracking, etc.)

The fact is, if the hardware is already fully supported by an Free-Open-OS, then a Microsoft version on that same hardware must always be a more expensive machine unless Microsoft is paying to have their OS installed.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: I don't like this title
by lemur2 on Thu 8th May 2008 00:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I don't like this title"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I think it is better to buy the Windows version and install Mandriva 2008.1 (it is supposed to work out of the box, wifi and all the good stuff) or another Linux tailored for eeePC. Microsoft is loosing money with every computer sold with Windows because of the subventions. So the more computers are sold the worse for Microsoft. In addition, by buying the Windows eeePC you don't support Xandros (which has a patent deal with Microsoft). But better than all this is to boycott eeePCs altogether. Someone already mentioned that there are better choices on the market.


I am probably going to cool down a bit after venting at Asus, and wait to see what Acer have to offer later this year (9-inch screen with an Intel Atom processor, I believe).

Having said that, even though this sham has probably caused me to drop the idea of getting an EEEPC entirely in favour of something from another manufacturer that better deomnstrates support for Linux, nevertheless I will still make a complaint to the ACCC over this.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: I don't like this title
by danieldk on Thu 8th May 2008 11:30 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I don't like this title"
danieldk Member since:
2005-11-18

Microsoft is loosing money with every computer sold with Windows because of the subventions.


Do they? I guess that depends on the development effort put in making an EEE PC-specific version. If it's mostly plain XP, they profit from it, given that duplication cost is near zero. Given that they probably have earned the development effort for XP back a few years ago, each copy sold at a higher price than material/distribution costs will give them profit.

Except if they provide full-blown support for these Windows copies, of course.

Reply Score: 2

i agree...
by hobgoblin on Wed 7th May 2008 19:16 UTC
hobgoblin
Member since:
2005-07-06

with the other comments here. i suspect microsoft is taking a loss on every eeepc with xp installed just so as to maintain mindshare.

Reply Score: 5

Restraint of Trade
by Obdurodon on Wed 7th May 2008 19:19 UTC
Obdurodon
Member since:
2008-05-07

This is exactly the same kind of "bundling" that MS has gotten into trouble over before, and rightly so. It's anti-competitive, and I hope the Australian equivalent of the FTC does the right thing by forbidding it.

I own an Eee 701. It does just fine with only 4GB. You can't put $10 worth of extra flash in it and then charge $50 *less* for the version with the otherwise-expensive software license included than for the version without. It's just not credible as a business decision made for any reason other than to support a near-monopoly. Don't think of this as charging $50 less for the Windows version. What they're really doing is charging $50 more for the Linux version, with some percentage of that pure profit being used as a kickback to Microsoft.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Restraint of Trade
by satan666 on Wed 7th May 2008 19:30 UTC in reply to "Restraint of Trade"
satan666 Member since:
2008-04-18

What they're really doing is charging $50 more for the Linux version, with some percentage of that pure profit being used as a kickback to Microsoft.
I don't think it makes any sense from a business point of view. I'd rather agree with the others that Microsoft is losing money on this one. Microsoft is losing lots of money nowadays. They give away XP for as low as $5 in Russia and other developing countries. How these revenues cover their expenses? I don't know but I hope Microsoft goes down. It's about time.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Restraint of Trade
by MadRat on Thu 8th May 2008 01:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Restraint of Trade"
MadRat Member since:
2006-02-17

That $5 price in developing countries is what really is killing Microsoft. Think about it, every third world little twit can learn on Windows on the cheap while Americans have to pay heavily for the privilege to be hacked by said twits. It just made no business sense whatsoever to even market Windows abroad if they had to cut the price.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Restraint of Trade
by tomcat on Fri 9th May 2008 01:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Restraint of Trade"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

That $5 price in developing countries is what really is killing Microsoft.


How is it "killing" them? It's not as if they're losing money with every copy sold. It's found money.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Restraint of Trade
by fluxy on Thu 8th May 2008 07:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Restraint of Trade"
fluxy Member since:
2008-01-30

[i]They give away XP for as low as $5 in Russia and other developing countries. How these revenues cover their expenses?


Well I live in a developing countries, and almost every desktop user wanting Windows XP/Vista can have it for about $5 (pirated version) and everyone does so. Which is why bringing a $5 legit version is a pretty wise decision from Microsoft coz this is a market they would normally never had - people will simply not buy a 'normal' priced Windows coz it's too expensive for em - so it's better for Microsoft to pocket the $5 rather than a pirated-copy seller. Microsoft also gains by getting people hooked on their software so that they get Microsoft-trained and be ready for enterprise where Microsoft can easily sell 'normal' priced software. (since people already have the skills to use these software)

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Restraint of Trade
by bert64 on Thu 8th May 2008 10:18 UTC in reply to "RE: Restraint of Trade"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

It's easy to make profit selling software for $5, the one-off costs to develop XP have long since been recovered many times over, so now producing additional copies of it costs a few cents at most for the physical media, even less for a paper or electronic "license code".

This could even work out good for Linux... Linux is perceived by many as being inferior and worthless simply because it's free... But in this case, the Linux model is clearly superior to the Windows one, and therefore people will expect it to cost more. If it costed less, or even the same, people would (wrongly) assume there was some hidden drawback to it.
Now the more expensive linux version is clearly a better model, it comes with a much better selection of software, it boots faster, it has considerably more storage space, and for many this is likely to justify the extra cost.

However there is clearly something nefarious going on being orchestrated by microsoft... Otherwise, Asus would be offering the 12GB version with Linux at the lowest price point of all the models, and possibly a 20gb windows version as the most expensive.

What needs to be done, is side by side comparisons of the two models that present the superiority of the Linux version to the public.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Restraint of Trade
by tomcat on Wed 7th May 2008 23:50 UTC in reply to "Restraint of Trade"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

This is exactly the same kind of "bundling" that MS has gotten into trouble over before, and rightly so. It's anti-competitive


Huh? How is it anti-competitive? Asus is no different than any other OEM.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Restraint of Trade
by sbergman27 on Thu 8th May 2008 00:00 UTC in reply to "Restraint of Trade"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

This is exactly the same kind of "bundling" that MS has gotten into trouble over before, and rightly so.

My suspicion is that the XP version comes with demo versions of about 10 different pieces of crapware like desktop machines do. The vendors pay per unit to have their demos included, thus offsetting the cost of the OS license. If this is the case, it is problematic. Do we demand that Asus release the Linux version with crapplets?

The main question in my mind is why is there no 12GB Linux version?

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Restraint of Trade
by lemur2 on Thu 8th May 2008 00:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Restraint of Trade"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"This is exactly the same kind of "bundling" that MS has gotten into trouble over before, and rightly so.
My suspicion is that the XP version comes with demo versions of about 10 different pieces of crapware like desktop machines do. The vendors pay per unit to have their demos included, thus offsetting the cost of the OS license. If this is the case, it is problematic. Do we demand that Asus release the Linux version with crapplets? "

This "explanation" still does not answer why the Linux version is more expensive than Windows version in Australia, but the two versions are the same price in other countries.

The main question in my mind is why is there no 12GB Linux version?


This is another valid question, but it will be harder to put a case to the ACC on this question as there is no requirement AFAIK that sellers HAVE TO offer particular combinations of features in a product.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Restraint of Trade
by sbergman27 on Thu 8th May 2008 00:24 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Restraint of Trade"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

This "explanation" still does not answer why the Linux version is more expensive than Windows version in Australia, but the two versions are the same price in other countries.

Has this been established with certainty?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Restraint of Trade
by lemur2 on Thu 8th May 2008 00:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Restraint of Trade"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"This "explanation" still does not answer why the Linux version is more expensive than Windows version in Australia, but the two versions are the same price in other countries.
Has this been established with certainty? "

Not at all ... there is only apparently one magazine article (in APC), which could very well have the pricing wrong.

Any complaint to the ACCC would of course have to wait for an official announcement from Asus Australia.

However, AFAIK, it IS established that the 20GB Linux variant and the 12GB Windows XP variant are being offered for the same price in other countries.

Edited 2008-05-08 00:45 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by daddio
by daddio on Wed 7th May 2008 19:23 UTC
daddio
Member since:
2007-07-14

I think Microsoft Windows has finally come full circle.

Just as Windows 3.1 had to be given away for free to make it attractive to OEMs, Windows XP must be lower cost (read subsidized by MS) than the Free GNU/Linux OS to have any appeal here.

Mark my words, you will see more of this as Redmond becomes more desperate. I mean really, how many computer n00bs are going to head down to bestbuy to buy a copy of Windows if the preinstalled Linux gets on Youtube and has a word processor? And of those how many can really get all the way through a windows installation on their own?

Windows could never survive in the wild.

Some enterprises will continue to use it, so it may be the new AS/400. grossly expensive, but cheaper to keep around than to port all their existing apps.

Edited 2008-05-07 19:25 UTC

Reply Score: 3

USA retail price difference?
by Bobthearch on Wed 7th May 2008 19:25 UTC
Bobthearch
Member since:
2006-01-27

I wonder how that will translate to retail prices in the USA. The Linux eeePC models are currently priced $299 (and up) at American retailers. Will the XP-based units be even less expensive than that?

Reply Score: 3

RE: USA retail price difference?
by B12 Simon on Thu 8th May 2008 10:22 UTC in reply to "USA retail price difference?"
B12 Simon Member since:
2006-11-08

They'll be more but you get a bigger screen and Flash Drive.

Reply Score: 1

Price is too high
by Moulinneuf on Wed 7th May 2008 19:28 UTC
Moulinneuf
Member since:
2005-07-06

What does $599 and $649 buy in Australia ?

Because the other ASUS Eee PC are 299.99$ - 499$ here in CANADA.

http://www.ncix.com/search/?categoryid=0&q=eee+pc

Reply Score: 1

RE: Price is too high
by stabbyjones on Wed 7th May 2008 23:27 UTC in reply to "Price is too high"
stabbyjones Member since:
2008-04-15

i bought the 701 (4GB) here in Australia for $483 in feb this year, which is currently ~450USD.

The price for everything is too high here. games cost almost double what you can buy them for in the US now.
50USD does not equal 100AUD!

i won't be upgrading my eeepc because it already does what i need and after i installed ubuntu from a usb stick it has it all i want.

paying that much more for a larger screen isn't worth it as far as i can see. the drive space is also irrelevant as i keep work on usb sticks and have a SDHC storage card for extra data.

you should be able to pick up a good 701 for cheap very soon. ;)

Reply Score: 1

Why would you even want XP?
by Michael on Wed 7th May 2008 19:32 UTC
Michael
Member since:
2005-07-01

This simply isn't the sort of device you'd buy if you wanted, say, Photoshop or Dreamweaver or whatever the latest "I-can't-dump-widnows-because" app is.

I'd rather have the Linux version becuase there's more software freely available for it. I don't know what the XP version's bundled with but there's no way it can beat a typical Linux setup.

Reply Score: 12

v RE: Why would you even want XP?
by sanctus on Wed 7th May 2008 20:34 UTC in reply to "Why would you even want XP?"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Maybe some who like to use the built-in webcam to chat with friends.

What do you mean? The web cam works fine with the Linux version out of the box, and comes with skype and google talk.

Reply Score: 8

Nalle Member since:
2005-07-06

If you want to use the web-cam with MSN, you can install aMSN that can handle web-cams just fine.

I do not have an eee (waiting for the one with Norwegian keyboard that comes in June) but I'm still pretty sure that you can install aMSN. At least you can with eeeBuntu.

Nalle Berg
./nalle.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Why would you even want XP?
by ari-free on Thu 8th May 2008 07:31 UTC in reply to "Why would you even want XP?"
ari-free Member since:
2007-01-22

there's a lot of free software for windows. There's open source ports like openoffice and gimp for windows but Microsoft Office Accounting express is also free. I wonder if there is anything that compares to that accounting package on linux.

Reply Score: 2

I hope it will be investigated.
by agrouf on Wed 7th May 2008 19:38 UTC
agrouf
Member since:
2006-11-17

I seriously believe there is an illegal deal behind that in many countries.
I believe this is illegal i the EU and in the US at least.
I hope the EU show some teeths and investigate the deal Asus has made with Microsoft and that a serious fine will follow and that they actually pay it and provide both OS with the same configuration.
The phone companies got fines for using that kind of tactic in the EU.

Reply Score: 8

noisyjazzman Member since:
2008-05-07

This monopolistic dumping is clearly illegal in Austalia.

I've initiated a complaint about ASUS's behaviour with the ACCC, and would encourage any other Australians who are pissed off about this to do the same. Just go to http://www.accc.gov.au/.

Nothing like a consumer howl to make government depts listen.

Reply Score: 8

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

This monopolistic dumping is clearly illegal in Austalia. I've initiated a complaint about ASUS's behaviour with the ACCC, and would encourage any other Australians who are pissed off about this to do the same. Just go to http://www.accc.gov.au/. Nothing like a consumer howl to make government depts listen.


That is a very good idea.

I will do just that ... and show how there is no offer of the Linux version on the cheaper hardware, and that the Linux version on more expensive hardware is the same price as the Windows version in other countries, but more expensive in Australia.

There can be absolutely no justification for this ... it is clearly price fixing and anti-competitive.

The ACC should have them for it.

Reply Score: 2

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

There can be absolutely no justification for this ... it is clearly price fixing and anti-competitive.


You don't know what you're talking about. Price-fixing is when two or more market players collude with one another to set an artificial price that distorts the marketplace; in most cases, price-fixing is done by cartels in order to keep prices artificially high. Clearly, Microsoft isn't colluding with Xandros. So, in fact, what you're seeing is .... gasp ... competition. Which is precisely what I like to see.

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"There can be absolutely no justification for this ... it is clearly price fixing and anti-competitive.
You don't know what you're talking about. Price-fixing is when two or more market players collude with one another to set an artificial price that distorts the marketplace; in most cases, price-fixing is done by cartels in order to keep prices artificially high. Clearly, Microsoft isn't colluding with Xandros. So, in fact, what you're seeing is .... gasp ... competition. Which is precisely what I like to see. "

Price fixing was not the term I was after, sorry about that.

"Predatory pricing" is what I was after.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing

In the context of Microsoft, Xandros, Asus and the EEEPC, predatory pricing would have occured if Microsoft offered Asus a lower price or other special terms for XP on the EEEPC compared to other deals for laptops with other OEMs, simply because Asus were offering a Linux option on the same laptop that would have exposed a side-by-side true cost comparison visible to consumers.

Reply Score: 3

.......
by islander on Wed 7th May 2008 19:55 UTC
islander
Member since:
2007-04-11

I have used Xandros and I liked it.

But...

I am going to take the hits and say I think its a poor choice of a distro to use to seriously compete with XP which at this late stage is a poor enough choice as well.

Reply Score: 3

RE: ....... - luckily, there are others
by jabbotts on Wed 7th May 2008 20:33 UTC in reply to "......."
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I'm partial to trying the Mandriva eeePC build but Ubuntu and a few other distros have eeePC specific installs now along side there liveCD and full install media.

Reply Score: 2

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I felt the same way when I got my model 701. But even with the 7 inch 800x480 screen, I found regular old Ubuntu to be the my preferred OS for it. It took remarkably little tweaking. And despite its size, it has more than enough power to run real Gnome. It is a fallacy to think that, being small, it needs a lite distro like eeeXubuntu. Or eeeAnything, really. As long as there is a good way to install via usb media.

Reply Score: 2

islander Member since:
2007-04-11

That being the case do you think it would have been a good idea to have an open enthusiast's model where it comes with no operating system and leave the install up to the user at a cheaper price ?

I think so.

Reply Score: 2

Captain Halibut Member since:
2007-04-08

I agree. Thought I could get Zeta on it, but no luck so far. Mind you ( biased though I am to anything Linux ) I did try Leszek's ZevenOS for a while, only to ditch it a few days later. I fear a slip-streamed 2K or XP is on the cards.

Edited 2008-05-08 01:45 UTC

Reply Score: 1

islander Member since:
2007-04-11

I agree. Thought I could get Zeta on it, but no luck so far. Mind you ( biased though I am to anything Linux ) I did try Leszek's ZevenOS for a while, only to ditch it a few days later. I fear a slip-streamed 2K or XP is on the cards.


Haiku perhaps?

Reply Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Both companies have released a hardware platform with a mostly open OS. They put resources into developing there portion of the OS but they don't hamper the ability for other's to add and modify.

- Those that just want the manufacturer's functions, it has a default OS install with intended basics.

- Those that want too add functions too there device, repositories are available. Even a few different OS if one is so inclined; I have partitions for my old 2007 install as was and current 2008 install plus the raw install on internal memory should I need a system rescue boot (my PDA is a tripple boot.. muwahahaha).

- Those that want to cross compile or write native programs for there device; Maemo is based on Debian and it seems there is a wide selection of OS for the eee hardware with the usual benefits of source and repositories.

I fall into the second group; never could be limited too the manufacturer's defaults and I don't have time to write my own source. A background in .NET doesn't help much for coding for *nix anyhow.

It's the best of both worlds; a default OS with the option to change it after plus the resources needed for other's to freely contribute.

The N800 was the first thing since the Palm T5 that could be called an upgraded too it's design and function set. With the eee, the small screen was the only turn off; now it has the larger screen but at higher cost so we'll see what makes sense when budget's permit. I think I may look at going from 800 too 810 instead of CF27 too eee.

Reply Score: 2

islander Member since:
2007-04-11

I'm partial to trying the Mandriva eeePC build but Ubuntu and a few other distros have eeePC specific installs now along side there liveCD and full install media.


Xandros at one time I considered the number one Windows inoperability distro .These days I dont think that is the case as the big four , OpenSuse , Mandriva ,Ubuntu and Fedora have come such a long way.

I think the branding on Xandros is so weak that Asus couldn't be bothered and just decided to bow down to Microsoft

Reply Score: 2

Comment by zizban
by zizban on Wed 7th May 2008 20:08 UTC
zizban
Member since:
2005-07-06

Has Microsoft put pressure on Asus to promote XP over Linux?

I bet you $100 they did.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Comment by zizban
by satan666 on Wed 7th May 2008 20:13 UTC in reply to "Comment by zizban"
satan666 Member since:
2008-04-18

They definitely did, but business is business and nothing is free. I'd say Microsoft paid lots of money for this.

Reply Score: 1

8GB Flash for $50
by saterdaies on Wed 7th May 2008 20:13 UTC
saterdaies
Member since:
2005-07-07

Considering that I can get an 8GB flash card for $50, they're essentially charging $0 for Windows XP - potentially charging more for Linux.

To be honest, this is kinda the problem with the cheap PC movement. Microsoft just realizes that its monopoly is more important than holding to a price. It's why poor countries haven't move to Linux - Microsoft just comes out with a starter edition or something for them.

One of the things that free market economics rests on is not being able to price discriminate. Microsoft seems to be doing its best to get around that so that it can both charge a lot to most people and keep people from charging less in an attempt to break the monopoly.

Reply Score: 2

RE: 8GB Flash for $50
by gonzo on Wed 7th May 2008 20:58 UTC in reply to "8GB Flash for $50"
gonzo Member since:
2005-11-10

Considering that I can get an 8GB flash card for $50, they're essentially charging $0 for Windows XP - potentially charging more for Linux.


Actually, 8GB SDHC card can be found for less than that. I just checked around, you can have it for like $40, so, I know it sounds crazy, but XP version can be cheaper actually.. (if you care at all about $10 or so).

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: 8GB Flash for $50
by DigitalAxis on Thu 8th May 2008 16:25 UTC in reply to "RE: 8GB Flash for $50"
DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

Now, if you go look somewhere (like, say, NewEgg) and find the price differences for Solid State Devices... well, I see that among 1.8" SSDs, the 8 GB version costs $166; the 16 GB version costs $300 USD.
I'd link to it but I'm not sure if that sort of link will work.

No doubt Asus has volume discounts, but that makes the difference in what you're getting over $100, and you'll still have the free SDHC port.

Reply Score: 2

RE: 8GB Flash for $50
by ari-free on Thu 8th May 2008 07:38 UTC in reply to "8GB Flash for $50"
ari-free Member since:
2007-01-22

Linux advocates can't just say "oh we're free! we're free!" and expect people to use it. Linux has to be better than windows. It has to be easier to use than windows. Not easier when compared to previous linux versions. It has to be much better than the competition if it wants to win.

You can't expect to win by producing a sub-par product and complain about mean old Microsoft.

Reply Score: 3

Hmm
by Xaero_Vincent on Wed 7th May 2008 20:14 UTC
Xaero_Vincent
Member since:
2006-08-18

It looks like this only applies to Australia.

In other places it will be $549 for both the Windows and Linux laptops.

Anyway, the Asus EeePC is now officially overpriced in my mind. $549 is no bargain for what you'd be buying.

I can find a much better Core 2 Duo notebook for the same price or only slightly more. I'll accept power over size any day.

Reply Score: 6

Another snow job
by cmost on Wed 7th May 2008 20:19 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

This is just yet another attempt by Microsoft to paint itself as THE only operating system that should be considered by the general public. After all, God forbid someone should realize that there are better, cheaper alternatives (i.e., Linux, BSD.) I'm sure that Microsoft leveraged its monopoly power yet again to broker this deal with ASUS. I'm sure ASUS paid little to nothing for the XP licenses and only threw in the smaller hard disk as a way of justifying the lower cost as well as getting rid of some inventory. Give me a break. Does Microsoft really think the tech community is this stupid? The bigger question Microsoft should be pondering is why it had to give away XP as opposed to its supposed flagship Vista. I'll tell them why: Vista is a bloated, buggy piece of crap that isn't worth the optical disk it's printed on.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Another snow job
by fretinator on Wed 7th May 2008 20:22 UTC in reply to "Another snow job"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Does Microsoft really think the tech community is this stupid?

Yes

Reply Score: 10

RE[2]: Another snow job
by unoengborg on Wed 7th May 2008 20:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Another snow job"
unoengborg Member since:
2005-07-06

Microsoft doesn't need to worry about the tech community, they are a minority. The important thing is to keep the general public in the dark on what modern free software is capable of.

Reply Score: 11

what will end up happening is
by 20charactersmax on Wed 7th May 2008 20:58 UTC
20charactersmax
Member since:
2008-05-07

I would probably buy the XP version and install linux on it. But of course microsoft will still claim me as a user

Reply Score: 2

It Doesn't Matter
by segedunum on Wed 7th May 2008 21:09 UTC
segedunum
Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes, Microsoft have got one of their obnoxious account managers in there from the school of Joachim Kempin, but in all honesty, it doesn't matter.

For the first time ever really, an OEM has went out and said "We don't need Windows" and they did it. Microsoft then felt under pressure to chase Asus, and as long as Asus sells a few more eeepcs as a result of Microsoft chasing them then so much the better.

However, I cannot think what on Earth you would do with Windows on this device, as it crosses over from merely being a PC to all the stuff you might expect from a mobile device. It doesn't give you a nice built-in office suite like the stock eeepc system does, it doesn't give you links to Google Mail, Yahoo etc. and various other things that people use a lot of these days and doesn't charge you an arm and a leg for software people expect to get as standard on these things. Nobody uses Windows Live. I mean, who the hell is going to buy Office to put on this device, and what Office would you install because 2007 sure as hell won't run on it (no, Works is not a replacement as anyone has used it can tell you)?

Microsoft's business and licensing model simply doesn't scale to devices outside of the PC realm. I think this is probably the first real milestone we have had for desktop Linux.

Reply Score: 10

RE: It Doesn't Matter
by Jack_Cairns on Thu 8th May 2008 07:56 UTC in reply to "It Doesn't Matter"
Jack_Cairns Member since:
2008-05-08

Extract from office 2007 license:

**********
2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. Before you use the software under a
license, you must assign that license to one device. That device is the
licensed device. A hardware partition or blade is considered to be a
separate device.
a. Licensed Device. You may install and use one copy of the software on
the licensed device.
b. Portable Device. You may install another copy on a portable device
for use by the single primary user of the licensed device.
**********
If you haven't installed it on a "Portable Device" yet, then you won't have to buy an extra copy.
I have office 2007 running on my xp eee pc, Word starts in about 2-3 seconds cold start. Compare that to openoffice!

Edited 2008-05-08 08:01 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: It Doesn't Matter
by lemur2 on Thu 8th May 2008 11:01 UTC in reply to "RE: It Doesn't Matter"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I have office 2007 running on my xp eee pc, Word starts in about 2-3 seconds cold start. Compare that to openoffice!


OpenOffice 2.4 starts in about 3-4 seconds cold start.

XP takes 15 to 20 seconds longer from power-on to full boot up than Linux does on the EEEPC.

So from a true cold start (power on) to a running Office suite ready to type is somewhere between 14 and 19 seconds quicker on the Linux variant of the EEEPC.

Your point?

Edited 2008-05-08 11:10 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: It Doesn't Matter
by lemur2 on Thu 8th May 2008 11:05 UTC in reply to "RE: It Doesn't Matter"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Extract from office 2007 license:

**********
2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. Before you use the software under a
license, you must assign that license to one device. That device is the
licensed device. A hardware partition or blade is considered to be a
separate device.
a. Licensed Device. You may install and use one copy of the software on
the licensed device.
b. Portable Device. You may install another copy on a portable device
for use by the single primary user of the licensed device.
**********
If you haven't installed it on a "Portable Device" yet, then you won't have to buy an extra copy.


If your Office 2007 copy is on a CD or DVD, then you will either have to have a new copy pre-installed on you new Windows EEEPC (at a cost of between $250 to $450), or you will have to buy a new external CD/DVD USB drive.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: It Doesn't Matter
by segedunum on Fri 9th May 2008 13:20 UTC in reply to "RE: It Doesn't Matter"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

I have office 2007 running on my xp eee pc, Word starts in about 2-3 seconds cold start. Compare that to openoffice!

I simply don't believe you, and with good reason.

Reply Score: 3

And the truth is...
by aaronb on Wed 7th May 2008 21:46 UTC
aaronb
Member since:
2005-07-06

Same price, Linux version has better hardware.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=959&catid=107...

Both cost £285.99 (£336.04 with UK VAT)
(As at 07-May-2008)

Edited 2008-05-07 21:49 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Eww, something stinks here!
by WereCatf on Wed 7th May 2008 21:54 UTC
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

It is very clear that Microsoft has come down with some heavy pressure, I don't think anyone can deny that. They are probably also losing money on XP sales just to maintain their monopoly. But, that's not what I have issue with. It's Asus.

Asus has bowed down to Microsoft's will instead of taking a stand. And what? They sell Windows equipped ones with lower specs so they can trump that Windows eeePC is cheaper but they are not offering the same hardware with Linux. Clearly anti-competitive and this behaviour would get lots of complaints here in Finland. One more thing; why in Australia does the Linux version cost more than Windows version when they cost the same in elsewhere..?

As I said, something stinks here and it sure ain't me.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Eww, something stinks here!
by sbergman27 on Wed 7th May 2008 22:03 UTC in reply to "Eww, something stinks here!"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Does the XP version come with vendor-paid demo crapplets to offset the OS licensing cost? That's the standard practice on desktops.

Reply Score: 3

stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

vendor-paid demo crapplets


You mean like Windows XP and Microsoft Works? Yes, it does.

:).

Reply Score: 3

RE: Eww, something stinks here!
by stestagg on Wed 7th May 2008 22:58 UTC in reply to "Eww, something stinks here!"
stestagg Member since:
2006-06-03

Despite several court rulings against them doing this, it is still possible for Microsoft to hold OEM companies to ransom over the price of their Windows Relicensing agreement.
If Asus had to choose between 'selling out' and a 2x jump in Windows Licensing costs, I'd bet they would choose the first option.

Edit: I said Possible.

Edited 2008-05-07 22:59 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Pricing in OSNews article
by Splinter on Thu 8th May 2008 00:27 UTC
Splinter
Member since:
2005-07-13

Guys I think you have made a mistake with the pricing. The $ in the article are AUD Australian dollars not USD. This is an Australian Mag talking about the Australian release and Pricing of the EeePC.

Reply Score: 2

Pricing... Now I'm confused
by Splinter on Thu 8th May 2008 00:35 UTC
Splinter
Member since:
2005-07-13

From the ASUS Australian site, they are ONLY advertising 20GB versions. BOTH XP and Linux versions are 20GB and the pricing is different to the article.

EeePC with XP Home $799 AUD
EeePC with Linux $649 AUD

All hardware specs the same... So Windows is COSTING you $150 AUD.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Pricing... Now I'm confused
by sbergman27 on Thu 8th May 2008 00:57 UTC in reply to "Pricing... Now I'm confused"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Where are you looking? I have not found any pricing. Here is confirmation from Asus about the 12GB Windows/20GB Linux issue:

http://au.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=10956

Reply Score: 2

Splinter Member since:
2005-07-13

Where are you looking? I have not found any pricing. Here is confirmation from Asus about the 12GB Windows/20GB Linux issue:

http://au.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=10956


http://www.asusnotebook.com.au/eee-pc.php is where I found the pricing mentioned.

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"Where are you looking? I have not found any pricing. Here is confirmation from Asus about the 12GB Windows/20GB Linux issue: http://au.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=10956
http://www.asusnotebook.com.au/eee-pc.php is where I found the pricing mentioned. "

Interesting. According to that site there is no 12GB option offered at all, either for Linux or for Windows. The Windows variants are quoted at $799 versus the Linux variants with the same hardware (and OpenOffice included) for $649. You can buy a Windows variant with no Office software, but if you want Office software then the additional price is between about $250 and $450 depending on the version of Office. There is no offer to install OpenOffice on the Windows version. There is no anti-virus offered for Linux, and for Windows it is offered between about $75 for one year upwards (depending on which versions you buy).

All up then, for the same specification machine with equivalent software functionality, you are going to be paying at least an additional $150+$250+$75= $475 for the Windows XP variant. All up cost is $1124 for the Windows machine, and $649 for the Linux machine, both with 20GB storage.

That makes the Windows machine 173% of the cost of the Linux machine ... a 73% price hike for running Windows. Or, in other words, running Linux + applications on this machine costs just 58% of the outlay compared to running Windows + applications on it (at least for the consumer who is unable or unwilling to get their own software and install it).

Then in addition, of course, every year thereafter, you have to re-spend at least your anti-virus subscription on the Windows machine.

OK, panic over. If this site truly reflects the planned pricing, there is no issue.

Reply Score: 3

noisyjazzman Member since:
2008-05-07

Looks like you're right; thanks for the link. As you say, panic over. Hopefully.

Reply Score: 1

same price
by JrezIN on Thu 8th May 2008 01:27 UTC
JrezIN
Member since:
2005-06-29

IIRC, the reason that the Linux version would come with 20GBs and the Windows version with 12GB was to make them both the same price to the end user... That was Asus said about a week or two ago...
Not sure if this decision is global or not... but it should.

Reply Score: 3

RE: same price
by B12 Simon on Thu 8th May 2008 12:59 UTC in reply to "same price"
B12 Simon Member since:
2006-11-08

www.dabs.com are offering the 20GB Lin and 12GB Win EEEPCs at the same price.

Edit: they're a UK site

Edited 2008-05-08 12:59 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Comment by TheWzzrd
by TheWzzrd on Thu 8th May 2008 06:04 UTC
TheWzzrd
Member since:
2008-05-08

Has Microsoft put pressure on Asus to promote XP over Linux?

As one of my buddies from works tends to put it: "No shit, Sherlock..."

Reply Score: 2

Xandros is not free!
by jimwmiller on Thu 8th May 2008 08:20 UTC
jimwmiller
Member since:
2008-04-20

This is what I just don't get about these discussions. The logic seems to be "Linux is free", "Microsoft version costs less", thus "Microsoft is selling for < 0". The problem with this is that it just does not make business sense. First, I can't imagine that Xandros would be willing to give away their distribution for free. I mean, why? They are not a charity. Second, the Xandros version is a "modified" version of Xandros. Who paid for these "modifications"? Perhaps Xandros? Just so they could give this version away for free? Come on guys. And raw cost is only one part of the equation. What about after sales support? Still in many places (not all), getting people with Windows expertise is just pain cheaper than finding people with Linux expertise. Hopefully this will change with Linux getting more exposure. As a community we need to start thinking with a more business savvy perspective. I certainly would guess that Microsoft is making little on these licenses. But stop with all the conspiracy theories. They just look dumb.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Xandros is not free!
by lemur2 on Thu 8th May 2008 10:56 UTC in reply to "Xandros is not free!"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

This is what I just don't get about these discussions. The logic seems to be "Linux is free", "Microsoft version costs less", thus "Microsoft is selling for < 0". The problem with this is that it just does not make business sense. First, I can't imagine that Xandros would be willing to give away their distribution for free. I mean, why? They are not a charity. Second, the Xandros version is a "modified" version of Xandros. Who paid for these "modifications"? Perhaps Xandros? Just so they could give this version away for free? Come on guys. And raw cost is only one part of the equation. What about after sales support? Still in many places (not all), getting people with Windows expertise is just pain cheaper than finding people with Linux expertise. Hopefully this will change with Linux getting more exposure. As a community we need to start thinking with a more business savvy perspective. I certainly would guess that Microsoft is making little on these licenses. But stop with all the conspiracy theories. They just look dumb.


Xandros is not free, but Mandriva and Ubuntu are ... and both of those work just as well on an EEEPC as Xandros does, and they offer the equivalent software.

So my expectation is that if Asus offers me any linux software for more money than what I can get Mandriva or Ubuntu for, the Asus are trying to rip me off.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Xandros is not free!
by tomcat on Fri 9th May 2008 01:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Xandros is not free!"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

So my expectation is that if Asus offers me any linux software for more money than what I can get Mandriva or Ubuntu for, the Asus are trying to rip me off.


They're not trying to rip you off. They've simply settled on Xandros as a distribution, they've tested it, they support it, and they're passing on those costs to you. If you don't like it, fine. Install another distro and STFU.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Xandros is not free!
by lemur2 on Fri 9th May 2008 03:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Xandros is not free!"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"So my expectation is that if Asus offers me any linux software for more money than what I can get Mandriva or Ubuntu for, the Asus are trying to rip me off.
They're not trying to rip you off. They've simply settled on Xandros as a distribution, they've tested it, they support it, and they're passing on those costs to you. If you don't like it, fine. Install another distro and STFU. "

Yes, they are.

Xandros is a Linux distribution that has done a deal with Microsoft, similar to Novell SuSe.

http://www.xandros.com/news/press_releases/xandros_microsoft_collab...

If Xandros are charging Asus a fee based on that deal with Microsoft, where Microsoft indirectly gets some of my money from my purchase of an EEEPC with Linux installed, when in fact I am not running any Microsoft software ... then Asus/Xandros are indeed trying to rip me off.

STFU yourself.

PS: Mandriva have also tested their distribution on an EEEPC, and they support it ... and it didn't cost Asus a single red cent.

http://www.mandriva.com/enterprise/en/company/press/mandriva-presen...

"Customized support for the popular Asus EeePC: Mandriva Linux 2008 Spring works perfectly on the EeePC with no modifications, including wireless networking, native resolution, Mandriva tools tweaked to fit the small screen, suspend and resume support, and full support for the special and multimedia keys".

Edited 2008-05-09 03:29 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Xandros is not free!
by tomcat on Sat 10th May 2008 06:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Xandros is not free!"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

If Xandros are charging Asus a fee based on that deal with Microsoft, where Microsoft indirectly gets some of my money from my purchase of an EEEPC with Linux installed, when in fact I am not running any Microsoft software ... then Asus/Xandros are indeed trying to rip me off.


Whine, whine, whine. There's zero evidence that any part of the fee that Xandros gets for shipping its OS on EEEPC goes to Microsoft.

STFU yourself.


I'm not the one who's whining over speculative theories. Look in the mirror.

PS: Mandriva have also tested their distribution on an EEEPC, and they support it ... and it didn't cost Asus a single red cent.


So what. Asus is going to charge you for whichever OS it installs on its machines, so it doesn't matter.

Edited 2008-05-10 07:00 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Xandros is not free!
by lemur2 on Sat 10th May 2008 13:52 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Xandros is not free!"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"PS: Mandriva have also tested their distribution on an EEEPC, and they support it ... and it didn't cost Asus a single red cent.
So what. Asus is going to charge you for whichever OS it installs on its machines, so it doesn't matter. "

It is entirely relevant to any investigation by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission if Asus is charging consumers for costs Asus does not have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Competition_and_Consumer_Co...

"The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is an independent authority of the government of Australia. It was established in 1995 with the amalgamation of the Australian Trade Practices Commission (TPC) and the Prices Surveillance Authority to administer the Trade Practices Act 1974 (Cth). Its mandate is to protect consumer rights"

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/142

"The ACCC promotes competition and fair trade in the market place to benefit consumers"

Why are you such an angry, bitter person about such a thing?

Aren't consumers supposed to have any rights, in your worldview? Are they just there to get ripped of by your megacorps masters, or something?

Edited 2008-05-10 14:11 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Can't wait for them to arrive in EU
by Googol on Thu 8th May 2008 12:58 UTC
Googol
Member since:
2006-11-24

A convicted monopolist offers a to be paid for product cheaper than "free" - I will notify my national anti trust authority of the first ad I'll see to that effect. Of course you can argue a lot of bull why the Linux version is at the price it is, like development costs bla-bla... but I want to hear it from MS.

Reply Score: 2

rakamaka
Member since:
2005-08-12

I dont know why there is so much fuss about these matchbox lptops. They have inferior configuration and not much use other than web surfing. If you pay $100 more you get full fledged laptop at best buy.
comparison of asus $ 400 vs compaq presario $500
COMPAQ Presario for $500
Product Features
AMD Turion™ 64 X2 mobile technology TL-58* for AMD dual-core technology in a thin-and-light design; HyperTransport™ and AMD PowerNow!™ technologies and improved security with Enhanced Virus Protection**
2GB DDR2 memory for multitasking power, expandable to 3GB
Multiformat DVD±RW/CD-RW drive with double-layer support records up to 8.5GB of data or 4 hours of video using compatible DVD+R DL and DVD-R DL media; also supports DVD-RAM
AMD dual-core technology enables you to work or play with multiple programs without impacting performance; AMD64 technology provides simultaneous support for 32-bit and 64-bit computing
15.4" WXGA high-definition widescreen display with BrightView technology and 1280 x 800 resolution
160GB Serial ATA hard drive (5400 rpm)
NVIDIA GeForce 7000M graphics with up to 335MB total available shared graphics memory; S-video TV-out; Altec Lansing audio
5-in-1 digital media reader supports Secure Digital, MultiMediaCard, Memory Stick, Memory Stick PRO and xD-Picture Card
3 high-speed USB 2.0 ports for fast digital video, audio and data transfer
Built-in high-speed wireless LAN (802.11b/g); 10/100Base-T Ethernet LAN with RJ-45 connector; high-speed 56 Kbps modem
Weighs 5.7 lbs. and measures just 1.6" thin for easy portability; lithium-ion battery and AC adapter
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition operating system preinstalled; software package included with HP Photosmart Essentials, muvee autoProducer, Cyberlink DVD Suite and more
ASUS Laptop Product Features
Intel® Celeron® M processor with 400MHz frontside bus and 900MHz processor speed
512MB DDR2 memory for multitasking power
Note: Optical drive not included
From our expanded online assortment; not available in all Best Buy stores
7" WVGA TFT-LCD widescreen display with 800 x 480 resolution
4GB flash-based hard drive; shock-proof design
Intel® UMA graphics with up to 64MB shared video memory
Built-in Web cam and microphone make it easy to video chat with, send video mail to or videoconference with friends, family or co-workers
3 high-speed USB 2.0 ports for fast digital video, audio and data transfer
Built-in high-speed wireless LAN (802.11b/g); 10/100 Mbps Ethernet LAN (with RJ-45 connector)
Weighs only 2 lbs. and measures just 1.3" thin for lightweight portability; lithium-ion battery and AC adapter
Stylish pearl white case finish
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition operating system preinstalled

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I dont know why there is so much fuss about these matchbox lptops.


The main reason is here:
COMPAQ Presario for $500 - Weighs 5.7 lbs.

ASUS Laptop for $400 - Weighs only 2 lbs.

The secondary reason is that the ASUS laptop is available with a Linux distribution pre-installed, which gives you a significant speed boost, you don't need any anti-virus, and you get a full set of applications, including a powerful Office suite, pre-installed for no cost.

The software advantage alone on the ASUS laptop with Linux is worth about $500 savings to the user.

All up, ASUS laptop fully loaded with software (Linux and applications) - cost $400.

All up, COMPAQ Presario fully loaded with software ( Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Edition, anti-virus and Office applications) - cost $500 + $500 = $1000.

Summary: the Compaq Presario - despite its faster processor, is no faster in actual use, and it costs more than twice as much all up (hardware + software) and it weighs nearly three times as much.

Reply Score: 4

rakamaka Member since:
2005-08-12

weight : if you are carrying it all times, hen windows mobile pocketPC is better
Linux is safer than XP : what a myth? I use XP with all free software like zonealarm, AVG, spywareblaster, hijackthis, avastAV, spybot, adaware and NEVER gets infested. Linux user needs to update their knowledge about security software(FREE) available for windows.
Then each and every commonaly used linux freeware is already ported to windows. You name linux soft and i will tell u free windows equivalent. OO, skype, MSN, GIMP, Amarok, Realplayers, Video editors, ALL ARE FREEWARE FOR WINDOWS and ALSO THOSE HAVE PAINLESS INSTALLATIONS.
OSNEWS readers MUST Look at http://osswin.sourceforge.net/ to see available free software which can be installed painlessly on windows.
Then for $100 more you get HUGE advantage of disk space, memory and Top of IT ALL YOUR PERIPHERALS WORK in XP. That is the main reason ASUS Linux versions are not mainstream because most of peripherals will not work correctly and average user dont have patience to struggle with linux commands. and so Walmart killed Linux PC lineup.
I seriously doubt your claim linux runs faster than XP and free of malware, whuch is FUD spread by linux users

Reply Score: 1

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Obviously, the Eee PC is not for you. Not sure why it has to be blown up into a big deal. Or, really, why you felt the need to post about how much it is not for you in the first place. I get the impression that maybe you are looking for an argument. For my part, I hope you enjoy whatever you have or buy, and will reevaluate non-Windows options, and different PC form factors, as the future unfolds, even if you still decide you prefer Windows on a conventional laptop.

Edited 2008-05-08 17:36 UTC

Reply Score: 4

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

No one was claiming that Windows doesn't have freeware... -.- We all know very well that almost everything available for Linux is available on BSD, Windows, Solaris etc..

weight : if you are carrying it all times, hen windows mobile pocketPC is better

eeePC is more powerful, it can f.ex. be used to playback music and video/movies while traveling yet it is small and lightweight enough to carry with you and so on. PocketPC doesn't fit those needs. PocketPC is very much suitable f.ex. for calendaring and keeping up-to-date with your appointments. So, two completely different categories of needs here.

Linux is safer than XP : what a myth? I use XP with all free software like zonealarm, AVG, spywareblaster, hijackthis, avastAV, spybot, adaware and NEVER gets infested. Linux user needs to update their knowledge about security software(FREE) available for windows.

Why do you need to run all that extra software then to stay secure...Or a more direct hint: how many XP viruses, trojan and other sort of malware does there exist? And how many Linux ones...? Of course, OO.o, aMSN, GIMP et al are mostly just as secure under Windows as they are under Linux, but under Linux if they get compromised all you lose is the files owned by your user account. Under Windows you have a very high risk of getting the whole system hosed in such a case.

ALSO THOSE HAVE PAINLESS INSTALLATIONS.

And? Haven't seen anyone claiming otherwise. I for one agree, it is easy to install stuff under Windows, just as it is under Linux. So, what's the issue?

Then for $100 more you get HUGE advantage of disk space, memory and Top of IT ALL YOUR PERIPHERALS WORK in XP

Huge advantage of disk space and memory? Umm, how so? On my machine Windows installation takes more space than the Linux installation, even more so if I install the same stuff under Windows as I have installed under Linux. The difference isn't big, I'm not claiming such, but still, Windows is somewhat heavier. That includes also memory consumption; I just have less swap space crunching under Linux than when I work under Windows.

Sure, not all possible peripherals work under Linux but most does nowadays. I have only one device which doesn't work, a HP Scanjet 2400, and that too is just because HP fails to deliver Linux drivers for it. It's not a big deal though, it was a total el cheap scanner and I have used it only a couple of times.

Reply Score: 4

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Then for $100 more you get HUGE advantage of disk space,

OK, I will respond to this one bit because it does suggest an advantage that is significant to me. I do happen to have a Compaq Presario and an Eee PC. The Presario fell off the dining room table and hit the floor several months ago. I turned it on, and the hard drive made nasty noises just spinning up, before it even had time to think about seeking. Everything else was just fine. The drive was a wreck. I had to order a new drive, install it, reinstall the OS, and there was actually some development work that I had not backed up in a couple of days (yes, bad me) that I had to rewrite.

I wonder how that scenario would have played out if it had been the Eee PC?

Edited 2008-05-08 18:38 UTC

Reply Score: 2

h3rman Member since:
2006-08-09

Linux is safer than XP : what a myth? I use XP with all free software like zonealarm, AVG, spywareblaster, hijackthis, avastAV, spybot, adaware and NEVER gets infested.


Except with zonealarm, AVG, spywareblaster, hijackthis, avastAV, spybot, and adaware? ;)

Reply Score: 5

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"Linux is safer than XP : what a myth? I use XP with all free software like zonealarm, AVG, spywareblaster, hijackthis, avastAV, spybot, adaware and NEVER gets infested.
Except with zonealarm, AVG, spywareblaster, hijackthis, avastAV, spybot, and adaware? ;) "

... which will bring your XP machine speed down to a relative crawl.

So busy trying to find the malware which makes it past the insecure OS and on to your machine, you don't have any significant machine resources left over trying to run your actual applications.

Reply Score: 5

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

weight : if you are carrying it all times, hen windows mobile pocketPC is better


Nowhere near the power & flexibility of a Linux desktop distribution. Not even in the same ballpark.

Linux is safer than XP : what a myth? I use XP with all free software like zonealarm, AVG, spywareblaster, hijackthis, avastAV, spybot, adaware and NEVER gets infested. Linux user needs to update their knowledge about security software(FREE) available for windows.


The point is, with linux you don't need any of it. You can use the Linux machine as it comes delivered with full functionality, perfect security and no extra bother. With Windows, you have to spend considerable effort getting all those security utilities installed ... and they then tax your machine trying to stop all that Windows malware out there getting onto your machine, and finding and trying to remove any that has managed to get past the insecure OS and onto your machine.

Then each and every commonaly used linux freeware is already ported to windows. You name linux soft and i will tell u free windows equivalent. OO, skype, MSN, GIMP, Amarok, Realplayers, Video editors, ALL ARE FREEWARE FOR WINDOWS and ALSO THOSE HAVE PAINLESS INSTALLATIONS. OSNEWS readers MUST Look at http://osswin.sourceforge.net/ to see available free software which can be installed painlessly on windows.


True. Since all this software is available for Windows and for Linux ... then why not just run it with Linux? You get all the same software, much of it comes pre-installed with your distribution (so you don't have to spend your time finding and then downloading and installing it), and the base Linux is more scure, runs faster and does not need anti-virus and other additional security software.

Then for $100 more you get HUGE advantage of disk space,


If you want disk space, buy a cloudbook with Linux, or one of the new HP ultraportables with Linux, or maybe the new ultraportable Acers with Linux that are supposed to be out soon. The advanatge of the EEEPC is that it doesn't have a HDD, and is therefore more robust and is still likely to work if you accidentally drop it.

memory


If you don't need the extra memory to run applications (because maybe you don't need to have lots of additional security daemons running all the time) ... then why buy it? It will just drain battery, so you will need a bigger battery, hence adding to the weight.

and Top of IT ALL YOUR PERIPHERALS WORK in XP.


As they do in Linux. In fact with XP you are quite likely to be snookered becuase your peripheral (say an inkjet printer) likely won't work with XP out of the box (whereas it likely will with Linux), and in the box the printer came in there was a CD that has the Windows driver for your new printer ... but your EEEPC doesn't have a CD drive!!!

Oops.

That is the main reason ASUS Linux versions are not mainstream because most of peripherals will not work correctly and average user dont have patience to struggle with linux commands.


Not at all. Clearly you haven't been keeping up with this story. You don't have to "struggle with linux commands" and for the EEEPC ... Linux and a full set of applications and drivers comes pre-installed.

and so Walmart killed Linux PC lineup.


No they didn't ... they just moved the Linux PC lineup to online sales only ... because nearly every one of these that Wallmart was selling was sold online, and not at the store.

I seriously doubt your claim linux runs faster than XP and free of malware, whuch is FUD spread by linux users


Argument from incredulity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Your doubting what I say has no bearing on whether or not what I said was actually correct.

Linux runs faster on the same machine because you don't have to run any extra utilities such as (in your own words) ... zonealarm, AVG, spywareblaster, hijackthis, avastAV, spybot and adaware.

The EEEPC also gains a speed boost because it uses a SSDD ... and Linux supports a number of filesystems some of which are optimised for such a device, whereas Windows has only the FAT or NTFS filesystems, both of which are designed for a HDD, and both of which are quite old designs now.

Edited 2008-05-08 23:49 UTC

Reply Score: 4

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

The point is, with linux you don't need any of it. You can use the Linux machine as it comes delivered with full functionality, perfect security and no extra bother. With Windows, you have to spend considerable effort getting all those security utilities installed ...


Um, no, you don't. You simply need to stop running as Administrator. There. Done.

Reply Score: 2

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Um, no, you don't. You simply need to stop running as Administrator. There. Done.

Not running with administrative privileges is a good policy. But I'm not sure how you got from "good policy" to "panacea".

Reply Score: 3

EEE PC in Spain
by jollyx on Thu 8th May 2008 19:03 UTC
jollyx
Member since:
2007-03-24

As far as I know they do not sell Asus EEE PC in Spain. Conspiracy?

Reply Score: 1

RE: EEE PC in Spain
by sbergman27 on Thu 8th May 2008 19:14 UTC in reply to "EEE PC in Spain"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Conspiracy?

Oversight. You guys seem to be equally good as Microsoft patsies as we are in the US:

http://tinyurl.com/5pkjel

Direct your claim to Microsoft's customer relations department rather than any local regulatory authorities in your own country for quicker response. ;-)

Edited 2008-05-08 19:16 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Advertising.
by ohxten on Thu 8th May 2008 23:46 UTC
ohxten
Member since:
2008-02-17

Advertising.

Reply Score: 1

MS is DISGUSTING
by Rimshot on Fri 9th May 2008 18:13 UTC
Rimshot
Member since:
2007-05-03

What a joke - a $50 price difference between the Linux version as a trade off for 8Gb of storage... You can buy an 8 Gb SDHC card for $30!

Asus obviously made a deal with the devil - MS is giving away the OS for free in order to try to snuff out the competition.. I hope MS gets sued (again) for anti-competitve practices. MS (and Vista) are on the way out.. so I guess they are so desperate they are intent on crushing Linux as well. To hell with Microsoft!!!

Oh and BTW I have the original EeePC with the original Xandros installed and it is fantastic! IT does EVERYTHING I need very well and performance is excellent.

I paid half the price of the XP version and would never consider putting XP on it. I run XP on other computers and I am sick to death of the constant pop-ups, security warnings, reminders etc. I also run Vista on one machine and it is a horrendous nightmare - multiply the security warning pop-ups by 3X, couple that with unsupported hardware & drivers and you get the picture. MS SUCKS!!

Edited 2008-05-09 18:22 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: MS is DISGUSTING
by sbergman27 on Fri 9th May 2008 18:20 UTC in reply to "MS is DISGUSTING"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I find your subject line cathartic. :-)

Reply Score: 2