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One of the motivations for the child-oriented Sugar interface was to avoid that parents take the machines that were handed out to kids for their education. Since Microsoft seems to provide an ordinary Windows interface, how will they prevent this from happening?

<irony>I for one welcome many children to the world of malware and DRM eBooks.</irony>

Another question: If GNU/Linux was not user-friendly enough, why is OS X (or one of its lighter derivates) not considered or offered as a serious option? Even more, because Apple seems to have offered to provide such version.

This all seems a bit of a strange change of mind, that throws away all the intentions of this project, primarily the emphasis on education rather than providing a laptop. In some way the OLPC project seems to have lost its innocence and is just another laptop project. As such, they are putting themselves in the same playing field as the classmate PC, etc. This all seems sour to people who have contributed to OLPC as an education project.

Quote "The availability of Windows, in addition to Linux, on the XO laptop will allow customers to have an expanded choice of operating environments that best fit their requirements..."

Great spin and PR. Especially when MS are usually putting negative spin on things when it comes to more choice of OS and try and lock people into windows.

This is exactly the education MicroSoft thinks these kids need.

First Class: EULA is your friend. Be kind to it and don't break any promises.

Second Class: Programs not certified by Microsoft lead to the dark side. Once started down that path, you will become a drug addict and prostitute.

Third Class: DRM is good. It keeps poor children from seeing all those nasty Hollywood movies.

Fourth Class: choice is confusing. Buy only Micrsoft products.

Fith Class: Rat on anyone you know that pirates. If they pirate software they are hurting uncle Bill and are not really your friend.

Sixth Class: The wonders of using Internet Explorer.

Oh yes, these kids need education.

How could such a noble project sidestep this badly?

I am feeling somewhat disappointed, I was hoping they'd ship those machines with Linux. Why? Because Linux offers a lot more possibilities to eventually tinker around and learn more about the OS internals and all that, atleast if the kid(s) feel so inclined..

boots in 50 seconds (which is 4 times faster than the original XO Linux implementation)

So original XO Linux booted in 4 minutes?! O_o That's some really sucky boot-up time! It doesn't really require that much effort to modify a distro to boot up in very short amount of time, even more so when the underlying hardware is known before-hand..

Anyway, even with XP I still sincerely wish those OLPCs will prove themselves valuable and useful to those kids, perhaps allowing them to improve the living conditions for themselves and everyone close to them some day.

One more thing though, I hope Microsoft and the people behind OLPC do make sure that the XP installation is really secure and won't become a spam relay or a virus host. The truth is still that almost all viruses and malware are targeted at Windows platforms.

Microsoft's problem, as with devices like the eeepc, is that it just isn't feasible for them to keep running around porting Windows to all these devices on an individual basis. I would imagine that they're bankrolling this as well, as they seem to be doing with the eeepc Windows port and other 'mobile' devices.

Microsoft isn't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts and for the education of the world's children, but because they have a bee in their bonnet about these devices and the fact that they can see a potentially unstable future for their traditionally stable OEM channels. Don't be fooled. Microsoft's business model is still based on a standard PC on every desktop and in every home, with per user and per device licensing at every level. That's why you have slightly odd restrictions on what Microsoft considers to be a 'mobile' device, because this is a defensive strategy to keep those partitions in place.

They're right to be worried, but trying to jump on every mole hill in a field isn't going to work. Yes, Sugar was a failure, and you could see that the moment it was demoed, but somebody somewhere will keep coming up with other interfaces on other platforms, and they can have as many bites of the cherry as they want to get it right.

I think it's great that these kids will also have the oppertunity to use an OS used by most of the world.

Supprisingly, not everyone is an OS fan, and of those that are not everyone falls in love with Linux.
The majority of these kids probably just want to get their work done and not worry about what OS they're running. What better way to do it than the way the rest of the world does it.

I for one would much rather have one of these running XP than linux. At least the choice is there now.

A "non-profit" that lends itself to the potential further expansion of a global proprietary operating system monopoly isn't trustworthy, isn't consistent, is not reliable.

There is not a single reason why Windows, in stead of a free and open operating system, would have a single benefit for the purpose the XO was created.

For the purpose OLPC was claimed to have been created, not a single application that runs only on Windows is needed.
For the purpose OLPC was claimed to have been created, not a single feature that the Windows operating system offers that other OSes do not, is of any use, not to mention benefit, to its target users.
For the purpose OLPC was claimed to have been created, not a single service that Microsoft corporation can offer is of any benefit to its target users.

Independence from any single powerful corporation is a crucial thing in education. This OLPC move is a form of treason.

I'm glad to hear thought that Microsoft is still fair and open about its objectives on our beloved planet.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/may08/05-15MSOLPCPR.m...

So they had to increase the storage size to include Office 2003... oh yes, Office 2003 is *the* learning software for young children.
And even better, sugar is gone now (haha, yes, i *completely* believe them the XO is going to ship with an XP version of sugar), so children get bound to Windows usage early in life. I bet Microsoft is looking foreward to recieve an substantial percentage of the per-head-income of many emerging countries now.
That the teaching idea behind it is gone is clearly showing in the decision to include Office.
Hey, why not bundle it with a family pack of cigarettes and an NRA membership.

The amount of work involved in securing and parring-down a Windows XP install is way beyond this target market.

These machines are going to be owned by malware within minutes of getting on the web.

I fully expect Norton to step in with an offer of $3 anti-virus too, just to incapacitate the machine even further.

Truly, this project has now been doomed.

All I heard in this thread is "wahhh wahhh wahhh linux wahhh".

... is all they can hold to these days

Well, let's face it, they probably did not choose the best Linux distro to run on it, and they probably did not strip the Linux system down to "only needed" components.

they should have used Upstart (i think that is what it is called) and other various new Linux technologies, but they did not.

anyway, on to the Windows Sugar...

I am actually quite impressed, although i don't know why. I ran XP on a 700Mhz machine with 196 MB Ram for about 5 YEARS, and that was with VB6 and Office 2000 also on it. I never really encountered a problem until i put iTunes on it, it was to much of a memory hog, so i used an older version of Winamp (2) and everything was fine again.

Anyway, It is really funny that people are all like "Oh WOW! this older hardware CAN run XP!!!"

Really, If you had to make due with older hardware, then it would not be such a surprise.

I wonder if MS actually wants these machines (OLPC, EEEPC) to fail with Windows on board rather than succeed on their own terms. Having Office software really requires far better hardware and display, I can't imagine being happy with such weak hardware for too long, I can't even imagine kids in Africa turning into little office workers either. They must surely know that sooner or later half the spam will be coming from these machines and that eventually they will be junked.

While I think that what MS has done with OLPC is techincally great, I am hardly surprised they could do it with such a warchest, it just takes control of education away from educationists and back to Redmond and who knows where.


I am reminded of the massive efforts undertaken by the auto and oil industry plus their governments to totally destroy, eradicate, exterminate, bury every form of transportation other than the car through every conceivable means. Primitive electric cars, trams, trains, busses all suffered in the rush to get every one into cars and the earth must pay for it. Mono culture is always bad.

I think OLPC should just quietly go die, at least EEEPC is closer to being useable although the prices doesn't look like it will ever get to $200.

We all had to know that MS would not allow low end devices go totally Linux without getting their wares inserted into said devices.

This, even while selling at greatly reduced price, or no price, or even at a loss to MS.

They can't afford to have mind share in any large number going to Linux. Their whole business model is based on familiarity, inertia, and fear of the unknown. This keeps the MS desktop dominence going. If millions of children in poor and developing countries, as well as general consumers buying low end products, get too accustomed to Linux, then Microsoft's business model will start crumbling. And the rate of that crumbling will accelerate over time.

But at the very least, the XO, and other offerings like the Asus, have forced MS to continue XP, and drop their pants price-wise (or give kick-backs to the OEM).

But alas, for these types of low end devices, Linux is much more appropriate. Linux is much more customizable, and can be stripped down easily to bare essentials, and run great on these minimal spec devices. XP can only go so far. And the minimal XP will be a security nightmare, and require anti-virus software, and get totally bogged down. Inevitably, users of the XP devices will be much less satisfied with them than the users of the Linux versions.

So, hopefully, over time, real world use cases and practicality will win out over MS BS. But at the very least, MS is being forced drop their pants and compete.

Microsoft is doin' anythin' to keep its monopoly... ok, that is quite obvious and natural... but...

what about the Negroponte's project? vision?

It seems like "con la plata baila el mono" ("any monkey dances with money") and no matter vision, dreams, projects, etc... everything goes secundary when the money talks.

I think the situation for XO really sucks.

I can understand the head of XO switching to Windows to reach his goal of distributing the laptop to as many people as possible. I do think he misled a *lot* of people who put in a *lot* of time to work on this, though. The people who helped develop the original XO/Sugar did a lot of work for free and most, if not all, had no direct benefit.

It's hard to deny that making Windows available for XO will sell more, but it certainly makes OLPC a questionable product. For OLPC's sake, they better hope MS is in it for the long haul, because they probably just lost most of the supporting base.

Also, anyone with a brain knows that Microsoft isn't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts.

Why linux lovers are bashing MS. Anyhow MS is always an opportunistic organization. If you have to blame, spit your fire on Mr Negroponte and his schizophoronic direction of this project. Like ADHD kid he shifted goals every often at his whim. We should send him to third world country and observe kids, their system for full six months and then evaluate his behavior and THEN restart project from scratch again.

Edited 2008-05-16 18:20 UTC

What we need now is somebody who would be able to create an improved Linux distro, tailored specifically at OLPC. With all the Sugar interface, less resource usage (XFCE, anyone?), improved init system, etc.

Then compare it to the "superb" XP offer from Redmond. If it was well executed, this Linux distro would easily kick butt of this sized-down Windows.

[fun-part]
I even have a name for it: Linux On OLPC, in short LOLPC.
???

Then again, maybe LOLPC is not such a good name after all? Just kidding
[/fun-part]

Ok so I am not the biggest fan of both MS and OLPC but as a windows user for ... i don't even want to count the years, I have one question. How did the great team from MS deal with the virus/malware problem that seems to hunt Windows everywhere? Last I checked the network that the OLPC relies on will allow for malware and viruses to spread much like viruses do in the human population. And since there are no doctors, medicine, or antibodies you can imagine what would happen to most of the OLPCs. Or maybe I'm mistaken and MS has finally decided to create a decent AV solution. ( not likely ) It is one thing testing a computer behind a hundred thousand firewall inside the MS network and it is completely different thing testing it in the wild with no protection whatsoever.

Even if all the other problems were gone the fact that the design of the OLPC allow for whole networks to be crippled by a single virus should be scary enough. Yes with linux is almost a nonissue at the moment but this is hardly the case with windows xp. You don't need to be looking for trouble because it finds you on it's own. And you need only one kids system to be infected in order to start the equivalent of a pandemic.

Now how's that for overlooking the details MS?

As when I've seen promotions for this project I've seen African children – I'm assuming this project is aimed at African children, in which case the project was probably always doomed and is now defiantly doomed.

Consider a well thought of private school in Kampala say St. Lawrence Citizens' High School and London College http://www.enteruganda.com/st.Lawrence.htm class size for a year 9 (13yr olds) will be up to 80, and the teacher paid US$ 300 per month, which is less than US$5/month/child on teachers. Resources for the learner include a black board... any text books must be bought by the child (and this is considered a good school for the middle classes not the poor) Does anyone really think that a laptop for ever child is realistic or even whats needed?

I currently work in Lesotho and we've had ADSL for about a year the infrastructure in Lesotho is much better than most African countries as we are surrounded by South Africa, a 128Kbs uncapped connection is about what a low skilled worker is paid a month – so these laptops are not going to be connected to the net. Even at the school which I work, where many of the students have PCs only a tiny minority have internet and most are running pirated copies of XP. Flash disks are affordable and everyone swaps mp3 etc as a result about 90% of the students PCs are infected with viruses. Obviously the OLPC PCs running Windows will simply add to the problem.

It is not difficult to imagine that these PCs will be the most valuable possession in many children's houses and will be stolen almost immediately, or sold to by food / text books /school fees etc.

So what will happen, my guess they will end up in a few show peace schools where if the IT administrator is sensible he wont let them out of the IT lab - most will end up trashed or on the black market. As for using Windows XP most of these PCs will have a short virus ridden existence for a few years until MS stops supporting XP at which point they will become completely obsolete, obviously a few politicians will get some handsome backhanders .