Linked by Kroc Camen on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 10:53 UTC, submitted by Mark Wielaard
Java Robert Schuster has a very detailed account of the work done to get full Java support on small devices. He managed to cross compile (and package) OpenJDK/IcedTea for OpenEmbedded/ARM through multiple build stages using various free java implementations. This provides full free (GPL) J2SE support for ARM based handlhelds, phones and embedded devices like the BeagleBoard, BUG, OpenMoko, Maemo and the Irex Iliad through Jalimo.
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Score one for WORA!
by evangs on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 14:01 UTC
evangs
Member since:
2005-07-07

This is really great work. It's good to have the full J2SE stack on embedded devices instead of having to rely on some proprietary version of J2ME.

Reply Score: 3

Great work!
by Kebabbert on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 14:03 UTC
Kebabbert
Member since:
2007-07-27

This shows the advantages of Open Source! SUN benefits from this work, as do we. We are all winners. Yes? :o)

Reply Score: 4

Replace Dalvik on Android
by abraxas on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 15:40 UTC
abraxas
Member since:
2005-07-07

Maybe now someone can create a version of Android with a free java implementation.

Reply Score: 2

...
by Hiev on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 16:08 UTC
Hiev
Member since:
2005-09-27

IcedTea = abobination, it is slower and buggier than Java, but hey, is free software.

Edited 2008-12-22 16:09 UTC

Reply Score: 0

RE: ...
by fretinator on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 16:26 UTC in reply to "..."
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

IcedTea = abobination, it is slower and buggier than Java, but hey, is free software.


Def: abobination [uh-bahb-ih-nay-shun]

n. Computer software bearing resemblance to Microsoft Bob.

Reply Score: 4

RE: ...
by danieldk on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 17:10 UTC in reply to "..."
danieldk Member since:
2005-11-18

IcedTea = abobination, it is slower and buggier than Java,


Great. Care to support that with any substantial argument?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: ...
by evangs on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 18:54 UTC in reply to "RE: ..."
evangs Member since:
2005-07-07

"IcedTea = abobination, it is slower and buggier than Java,


Great. Care to support that with any substantial argument?
"

If you're running Ubuntu Linux, install Eclipse via Synaptic. The default Eclipse packages available on Ubuntu are compiled using GCJ. Launch said Eclipse and cry as you see how slow the whole thing runs. Before you start blaming Eclipse for being bloated and slow, install the Sun JDK, and then download the official Eclipse release. Install both, and then launch the official Eclipse release. Cry as you see how well the whole thing runs.

While it may appear counter intuitive to some, natively compiled Java isn't necessarily going to be faster than running Java through a VM.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: ...
by robilad on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 19:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: ..."
robilad Member since:
2006-01-02

IcedTea != gcj.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: ...
by Lobotomik on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 13:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: ..."
Lobotomik Member since:
2006-01-03

Yeah, GCJ sucks dog's bollocks, but it has nothing or little to do with IceTea. Why Ubuntu insists on installing GCJ is beyond me: truly, it is slow, buggy and voracious.

Once you get rid of GCJ, OpenJDK works very nicely, and it is just as fast as Sun's JDK because they share the vast majority of the code; only the proprietary bits that Sun sublicensed have been excised and (mostly) replaced with GPL code.

So we indeed see an advantage of free code here. Sun has not seen it fit to do an ARM port of JRE (commercial conflicts with JME, maybe?), but here's the port, anyway.

Were Flash Player also free code, we could have it running on a much wider variety of hardware than Adobe supports; this might give JavaFX and Silverlight some competitive advantage.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: ...
by reinouts on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 21:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: ..."
reinouts Member since:
2005-07-20

IcedTea / OpenJDK is a completely different beast than GCJ. Try to run Eclipse with it, you'd be surprised!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: ...
by unoengborg on Wed 24th Dec 2008 04:06 UTC in reply to "RE: ..."
unoengborg Member since:
2005-07-06

"IcedTea = abobination, it is slower and buggier than Java,


Great. Care to support that with any substantial argument?
"

According to an article at Phoronix OpenJDK is slightly slower than the Sun JDK. See: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=java_vm_performa....
The phoronix tests are performed on Ubuntu. I use fedora and RHEL/CentOS and I have noticed it on these platforms as well.

It is also not hard to find bugs in OpenJDK. E.g. try to create a JFrame containing a JPanel with e.g a JTextField in it. In Sun JDK the pack() method works just fine, while in OpenJDK it does not. This isolated bug does of course not prove that there are more bugs in OpenJDK, just that Sun JDK and OpenJDK do not share the same set of bugs, but that is still annoying.


Another thing is that if you don't care to compile your java yourself and rely on the OpenJDK that comes with your Linux distribution, the OpenJDK somtimes is a bit out of date when it comes to features. E.g the OpenJDK that comes with Fedora do not support JavaFX like the latest Sun JDK does.

Even so, it is nice to have a free implementation of Java, this means Java will have a chance to live on if something should happen to Sun. In the long run it will probably also make sure that more bugs will get fixed on platforms in which Sun have little interest.

Reply Score: 2

exist since a while...
by collinm on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 23:16 UTC
collinm
Member since:
2005-07-15

sun already have a release of java for embedded system... so is not really new

http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/embedded.jsp

that exist for arm, mips and x86...

Reply Score: 2

RE: exist since a while...
by Rahul on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 23:35 UTC in reply to "exist since a while..."
Rahul Member since:
2005-07-06

That is proprietary. IcedTea is not.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: exist since a while...
by collinm on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 01:58 UTC in reply to "RE: exist since a while..."
collinm Member since:
2005-07-15

and?

jvm is used since a while for embedded system.... so i don't think it's a big problem....

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: exist since a while...
by Rahul on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 02:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: exist since a while..."
Rahul Member since:
2005-07-06

I didn't say it was a problem as such although then you would have to get into why Sun decided to open source it;s JDK in the first place and why someone decided to put time and effort into this cross compilation.

I was in fact, just noting that it is not just the same thing that existed for a while but a new effort based on recently open sourced code and it deserves to be looked upon as a unique effort.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: exist since a while...
by sbergman27 on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 02:25 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: exist since a while..."
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I was in fact, just noting that it is not just the same thing that existed for a while but a new effort based on recently open sourced code...

The thing about these projects is that you never know what might come of them. You sew some seeds and some of them might spring up. You know not which. And maybe it'll be a beanstalk you can climb. Maybe you can climb past the clouds. Or maybe there will be a giant at the top named "The Big MS" who will eat you. Or maybe the whole thing just falls down and crushes you. Or maybe the damned seed never sprouts at all.

This particular seed seems to have sprouted.

Look up.

Edited 2008-12-23 02:30 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: exist since a while... Not a full version
by mark2 on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 07:21 UTC in reply to "exist since a while..."
mark2 Member since:
2006-08-10

sun already have a release of java for embedded system... so is not really new

Note that is a proprietary headless version, that they haven't/couldn't liberate to be integrated with the free software solutions and so only available for a couple of selected targets. The OpenJDK IcedTea port is the full version with graphics and all, and comes with only free software and a recipe to cross-compile it for any target you want.

Reply Score: 1

Give IcedTea some time
by centos_user on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 01:38 UTC
centos_user
Member since:
2008-11-16

Remember all of the comments people made about Linux distro's it is 'free software'...

I do not see the faults with the IcedTea implementation, with a Linux distro (RHEL/Fedora) you can use the alternatives command to switch or change the JVM you want to use.

I think having choices makes better software and who knows the dev's may come out with a better JVM than the one Sun offers.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Give IcedTea some time
by collinm on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 18:03 UTC in reply to "Give IcedTea some time"
collinm Member since:
2005-07-15

a couple of big company have tried... without success...

also, i don't think icetea project it's not really optimised for embedded system... that why sun a create a release for that

Reply Score: 2