Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 6th Jun 2009 10:10 UTC
Apple And we have another Ask OSNews item! This one has to do with the recent article we ran on how I built my own Macintosh and installed a vanilla, unaltered copy of Mac OS X on it using the boot-132 method. One of our readers asked us: what is the best hardware to build a Mac out of?
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Google is your friend
by kragil on Sat 6th Jun 2009 10:53 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

Besides Insanelymac one could just look at the Mac clone makers and copy their hardware setup.

That will certainly increase your chances.

So look at those four shops for inspiration.

Reply Score: 4

you can try a virtual Mac OS X
by dungsaga on Sat 6th Jun 2009 11:20 UTC
dungsaga
Member since:
2005-07-12

If you insisted on a top-notch powerful PC, you can try to give Mac OS X a virtual life using VMware or VirtualBox. There's even some ready-made images on the a big Swedish P2P network. I know it's not like the real one, but you can put it into any hardware that you don't have a compatible driver.

Reply Score: 2

RE: you can try a virtual Mac OS X
by bert64 on Sat 6th Jun 2009 12:20 UTC in reply to "you can try a virtual Mac OS X"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

If you insisted on a top-notch powerful PC, you can try to give Mac OS X a virtual life using VMware or VirtualBox. There's even some ready-made images on the a big Swedish P2P network. I know it's not like the real one, but you can put it into any hardware that you don't have a compatible driver.


I found the performance of OSX under vmware to be absolutely appalling, native is massively faster...

One thing to try, if you get an appropriate motherboard, go for a dual screen setup... A powerful videocard for your windows gaming, and a slower (read: cheap) videocard for OSX use. I have an nvidia 8600gt which works perfectly in a hackintosh. Also, your highend videocard will probably end up being supported before too long anyway.
This assumes you're not planning to use OSX for gaming or highend video work.

Reply Score: 2

RE: you can try a virtual Mac OS X
by LB06 on Sat 6th Jun 2009 12:36 UTC in reply to "you can try a virtual Mac OS X"
LB06 Member since:
2005-07-06

I'd do it the other way around, because VMWare Fusion is just so f--king awesome.

Reply Score: 2

Let us know if Apple says something
by chocobanana on Sat 6th Jun 2009 11:22 UTC
chocobanana
Member since:
2006-01-04

I don't have any hardware suggestions but I would like to ask Thom: I'm really curious to know if you got/get contacted by Apple regarding this and the previous story. Would be really grateful if you would tell us if something comes from their part! ;)

Edit, P.S.: Oh, and you used the Opera logo for this story (by mistake, I presume). Dank u wel

Edited 2009-06-06 11:32 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Nope, we didn't get contacted, and we probably never will. We're way too small and insignificant a site to be on Apple's radar - for the better, probably.

Reply Score: 2

Icon
by drstorm on Sat 6th Jun 2009 11:39 UTC
drstorm
Member since:
2009-04-24

Wrong icon? (Opera)

Reply Score: 3

Wrong icon? Opera?
by Vinegar Joe on Sat 6th Jun 2009 12:40 UTC
Vinegar Joe
Member since:
2006-08-16

Because every story about Apple turns into a soap opera?

Reply Score: 3

Comment by wargath
by Oliver Weichhold on Sat 6th Jun 2009 13:46 UTC
Oliver Weichhold
Member since:
2009-06-06

OSX 10.5.7 is running absolutely rock stable on my system: Asus P5Q, 8GB OCZ DDR2 Ram, Nivida 8800GT (flashed with Apple Mac Pro Bios). I never turn my machine off and uptime is currently about 4 weeks.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Comment by wargath
by Alex Forster on Sat 6th Jun 2009 19:16 UTC in reply to "Comment by wargath"
Alex Forster Member since:
2005-08-12

OSX 10.5.7 is running absolutely rock stable on my system: Asus P5Q, 8GB OCZ DDR2 Ram, Nivida 8800GT (flashed with Apple Mac Pro Bios). I never turn my machine off and uptime is currently about 4 weeks.

I feel like I should reiterate what he just said here. The Asus P5* series of motherboards have astounding, if not perfect support in OS X, rivaled only by a few Gigabyte boards. Today I received an Asus P5K in the mail and am writing this while waiting for OS X to finish installing.

It's important to have a compatible motherboard because it means you can install OS X, unmodified, and update straight from Apple without worrying (by using a bootloader and small, hidden partition to cleanly isolate all the hacked kexts - aka "boot132"). It's such a clean hack that I could image a real mac's volume and boot from it without any extra work.

Hopefully, if all goes well today, I will have an identical setup to parent's.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by wargath
by Johann Chua on Sat 6th Jun 2009 23:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by wargath"
Johann Chua Member since:
2005-07-22

I wonder if this has anything to do with Asus making laptops for Apple.

Edited 2009-06-06 23:48 UTC

Reply Score: 2

thanks a lot
by desentizised on Sat 6th Jun 2009 14:07 UTC
desentizised
Member since:
2008-12-09

first of all i wanted to thank Thom for featuring my question.

second of all what i think didnt come across in my email is that I really dont want to compromise in any area here.
the dual graphics card idea by bert64 is a quite interesting one. maybe with a KVM Switch to be able to use only one monitor.
but the bottom line is that ill appreciate a high end setup hardware-wise with windows vista business (and windows 7 quite soon i hear from OSNews) running smoothly a lot more than a worse performing system running OSX as well. The reason i often get frustrated with Windows might just be my above mentioned old hardware rather than windows itself ^^
a friend of mine bought a similar setup of hardware not too long ago and its amazing.
this thing makes a windows prefetch folder a waste of hard drive space. everything loads as if it had been running in the background all the time. theres no delay to anything you can do on ur desktop. i could go on ;-)

but nevertheless thanks once again. also thanks to all the suggestions in the comment section. im sure ill be happy with what ill end up with.

Martin

Reply Score: 1

RE: thanks a lot
by MamiyaOtaru on Sat 6th Jun 2009 15:14 UTC in reply to "thanks a lot"
MamiyaOtaru Member since:
2005-11-11

Keep in mind that unless you are super picky with hardware you are probably building a Leopard machine. As in not Snow Leopard. 64 bitness is going to mean a lot of the old drivers are not going to work anymore.

You'll likely have better luck by sticking really close to what Apple uses and ignoring stuff they don't, even if it works now, though no one really knows what's going to happen.

http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/index.php?automodule=blog&blogid=1...

Reply Score: 2

RE: thanks a lot
by Morty on Sat 6th Jun 2009 22:01 UTC in reply to "thanks a lot"
Morty Member since:
2005-07-06

maybe with a KVM Switch to be able to use only one monitor.


That would work, but in most cases you should be able to do without and save the cost of the extra hardware.

Expect the absolutely cheapest models, most modern monitors comes with at least two video inputs already, selectable with the monitor buttons. One VGA and a DVI are very common, but you can find dual DVI or VGAs also.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: thanks a lot
by steogede2 on Sun 7th Jun 2009 21:21 UTC in reply to "RE: thanks a lot"
steogede2 Member since:
2007-08-17

"maybe with a KVM Switch to be able to use only one monitor.


That would work, but in most cases you should be able to do without and save the cost of the extra hardware.

Expect the absolutely cheapest models, most modern monitors comes with at least two video inputs already, selectable with the monitor buttons. One VGA and a DVI are very common, but you can find dual DVI or VGAs also.
"

You would still have the expense of buying a second keyboard and mouse (not mention the extra clutter). Surely it's simpler just to get a KVM for £20 (or £50 for a DVI model).

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: thanks a lot
by Morty on Sun 7th Jun 2009 22:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: thanks a lot"
Morty Member since:
2005-07-06

You would still have the expense of buying a second keyboard and mouse (not mention the extra clutter).


No you don't, since nothing of that is needed for the setup discussed. A box able to dual booth Win and Os X using two graphics cards, with a top of the line card for windows and gaming needs and lesser one to keep it Os X compatible.

Besides you could easily set up a two box solution using the dual input monitor and use a sw "KVM" like synergy for the mouse/keyboard.

Reply Score: 2

XPS 410 works
by bdelgado on Sat 6th Jun 2009 15:08 UTC
bdelgado
Member since:
2009-06-06

I used my Dell XPS 410 (Core 2 Quad, 8 GB RAM). There were a few things that needed workarounds:
- Had to use a USB CDROM to install the OS
- Initially had to install the OS on a USB hard disk (no drivers for SATA out of the box)
- Had to get a $10 network card

But after installing drivers for video, sound, and the ICH8R, it's now a 100% functional system running 10.5.7.

Reply Score: 1

v Believe it or not...
by dlundh on Sat 6th Jun 2009 16:16 UTC
RE: Believe it or not...
by kragil on Sat 6th Jun 2009 16:42 UTC in reply to "Believe it or not..."
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

Not $3K great.

Reply Score: 12

RE[2]: Believe it or not...
by dlundh on Sun 7th Jun 2009 13:25 UTC in reply to "RE: Believe it or not..."
dlundh Member since:
2007-03-29

Matter of opinion...

Reply Score: 1

Comment by bnolsen
by bnolsen on Sat 6th Jun 2009 17:34 UTC
bnolsen
Member since:
2006-01-06

Is this really leal or is it gray area?

When you choose Mac, you choose a platfom. They tell you up front that its not about freedom, its about their platform.

If you dont like this policy don't buy their stuff unless they change. Its not like Apple has been convicted of monopoly abuse or anything...

Edited 2009-06-06 17:36 UTC

Reply Score: 0

RE: Comment by bnolsen
by Vinegar Joe on Sat 6th Jun 2009 18:05 UTC in reply to "Comment by bnolsen"
Vinegar Joe Member since:
2006-08-16

Its not like Apple has been convicted of monopoly abuse or anything...


But the DOJ is investigating Apple's hiring practices.

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2009/06/01/daily41.html

http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/03/technology/tech_antitrust/?postvers...

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by bnolsen
by kaiwai on Sat 6th Jun 2009 23:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by bnolsen"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06



Oh cry me a river why don't you. Nothing irritates me more than when the demand for fair compensation moves from being reasonable to simply just extortion. I some times wonder whether some of these people have their priorities right when their whole life is centred around chasing the almighty dollar; in the pursuit of the dollar they ignore the fact that everything around them is fake, it isn't real, constructs that have on inherent value and trinkets you amount during your lifetime cannot be taken to the grave with you.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by bnolsen
by Hypnos on Sun 7th Jun 2009 08:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by bnolsen"
Hypnos Member since:
2008-11-19

Money is like anything else desirable: either you use it productively, or it can take over your life.

The first thing I would do if ever became filthy rich would be to stop flying coach. The second would be to ensure the financial security of my descendents.

You can't judge from afar whether the employees in question are making themselves miserable chasing dollars or have something productive in mind. But you can bet that Apple, Inc. is about making money, and that monopoly practices hurt the consumer.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by bnolsen
by bannor99 on Sun 7th Jun 2009 17:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by bnolsen"
bannor99 Member since:
2005-09-15

Instead of telling that to the developers, tell it to the upper brass with their stock options, mega-buck pay and golden parachutes. All of which they keep even when the company is tanking.

Although, in light of the ongoing economic fiasco, this might ( possibly, maybe, hopefully) change.

I guess greed flows downhill.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by bnolsen
by kaiwai on Sun 7th Jun 2009 20:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by bnolsen"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Instead of telling that to the developers, tell it to the upper brass with their stock options, mega-buck pay and golden parachutes. All of which they keep even when the company is tanking.

Although, in light of the ongoing economic fiasco, this might ( possibly, maybe, hopefully) change.

I guess greed flows downhill.


Greed is everywhere; from the top to the bottom; it was a generalised statement regards to all those (management/programmers/tea lady) who demand more pay than what one would deem as fair compensation.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by bnolsen
by alcibiades on Sat 6th Jun 2009 18:32 UTC in reply to "Comment by bnolsen"
alcibiades Member since:
2005-10-12

It is a grey area.

You are not violating copyright law, that's for sure. So you are doing nothing criminal.

You are violating Apple's Eula, and the clause forbidding you to install on non-Apple hardware may be enforceable. Or it may not. There don't seem to have been any cases ruling clearly either way. If it is enforceable, Apple would be able to take civil proceedings against you. But they would have to show actual damage.

This is the part that is grey. This is why the Psystar decision will be so interesting. And why it will be interesting to see do they proceed against Freedompc in the UK, or PearC in Germany, or EFI-X.

As to the morality, what moral obligations do you have to a company that tells you you may not install an app because it lets you read the Kama Sutra? Or that you may not install another because it gives access to some EFF materials they don't care for? Moral obligation to do what Apple wants, or not what they don't want? Your only moral obligation to them is to comply with the letter of the law.

Reply Score: 2

v Bad OS
by pimpernel on Sat 6th Jun 2009 17:43 UTC
RE: Bad OS
by WereCatf on Sat 6th Jun 2009 17:57 UTC in reply to "Bad OS"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Bad troll is bad.

2. Shove on PC-BSD or Kubuntu

Wouldn't touch *ubuntu even with a long stick. Can't say anything about BSDs though since I've never tried those.

Reply Score: 0

A point about the system drives
by JLF65 on Sat 6th Jun 2009 20:13 UTC
JLF65
Member since:
2005-07-06

Something I ran into myself that seems to be a big problem for a lot of people: Use a PATA (IDE) hard drive and DVD hooked up with the hard drive as Master and the DVD as Slave. Trying to boot from SATA drives is problematic, and OSX seems to assume that a DVD will never be a Master drive. A few years ago, all systems were set up that way, but these days your primary hard drive may be SATA and the DVD would be the Master device on the PATA bus.

Reply Score: 3

DREVILl30564
Member since:
2008-04-18

I just bought a used retail copy of Leopard off of ebay and I'm interested in trying it with the boot-132 method for installation

proposed config for my "hackintosh"
ECS ELITEGROUP 915P-A2
onboard sound
onboard network
Intel Celeron-D 3.06 GHz CPU
2.5 GB DDR2 Ram
PNY Nvidia Quadro NVS 280 Dual head pci-e video

IDE LITEON DVD-ROM setup as master
IDE Maxtor 160 GB Hard drive setup as slave.
(system only has one ide port, rest of ports are sata)

the video card I have probably won't work, but I can work on getting a better one later. Right now my main concern is if I can get the system up and running first

tried going over to the insanelymac forum to ask this but it's down at the moment with too many database connections error.

Edited 2009-06-06 22:34 UTC

Reply Score: 2

camouflageX Member since:
2008-03-07

Dude, don't ask in the forum. Look your hardware up in the Hardware Compatibility List:

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/HCL_10.5.5

You might have to try other HCL versions, too.

Reply Score: 3

DREVILl30564 Member since:
2008-04-18

hey thanks for the reply

the wiki was down at the same time for some weird reason when I posted to osnews. looks like my board will work ok so long as I don't use the sata ports. now I just have to wait until My legal copy of Leopard shows up and resist the temptation to go download it off of one of the torrent sites. I own an older Imac G4 700 so even if I'm not successful with getting leopard to run on my hackintosh, I can always use one of the open firmware hacks to fool the leopard installer into letting me install it on my imac

Reply Score: 1

laptops?
by invisik on Sun 7th Jun 2009 06:35 UTC
invisik
Member since:
2006-08-03

Hey... any PC laptop suggestions for this?

-m

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Cytor
by Cytor on Sun 7th Jun 2009 13:16 UTC
Cytor
Member since:
2005-07-08

The hackintosh scene has come a long way. I remember fiddling around with various OSx86 "distributions" in mid-2008, which all gave a rather painful experience (hardware not working, power mgmt issues, break on update, etc.). That was a year ago.
A few months ago, I set up a retail Leopard installation on my pc, utilising the mentioned boot-132 method. I even set up an independent partition for all custom extensions to be update safe. Even was able to set up and boot from an raid-0 Apple Software Raid.
But ultimately, you won't get everything working flawless, no matter how 'supported' your h/w is. For my specific hardware, the deal breaker was my PC constantly overheating, despite SpeedStep working and clocking down the CPU (also tried several other power mgmt drivers specially coded for OSx86 use), thus providing me with at least one kernel panic per day.
This, and shutdown/restart randomly not working.

So far for my experience with the OSx86 world... I'll come back next year for 10.6 and am pretty optimistic that the community will have the last issues sorted out by then :-)

Reply Score: 1

my system
by GCrain on Sun 7th Jun 2009 13:38 UTC
GCrain
Member since:
2005-07-11

I built a hackintosh:
Gigabyte EP45-UD3P motherboard
E7400 processor
GeForce 8400 GS/ 512 (fanless).
(tried a GeForce 8800 GT / 256 too)
4 gig memory
Samsung IDE-DVD burner

I'm still trying to get the video work correctly. It won't play DVD's yet, nor iDVD. The I couldn't get the onboard audio to work, so I installed a SBLive and the kX driver and the audio works.

For all the time and hassle, I'm not sure if I would do it again. I doubt that it would be wise to upgrade the OS. When Snow Leopard comes out, forget about it until someone hacks something. Part of the experience of MacOS is that things typically 'just work'. IN the end, I'd probably go get a Mac mini. All this searching forums, looking for different kext's, and EFI strings for the video card, trial and error, not knowing if some update will hose the system, etc. My dual G4 with Leopard still works more smoothly at this point.

Reply Score: 2

RE: my system
by camouflageX on Mon 8th Jun 2009 10:10 UTC in reply to "my system"
camouflageX Member since:
2008-03-07

Did you try adding your EFI graphics card string into your com.apple.Boot.plist? http://forum.netkas.org/index.php/topic,64.msg1961.html#msg1961

Or did you install a driver like NVdarwin? http://www.filestube.com/n/nvdarwin

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: my system
by GCrain on Mon 8th Jun 2009 20:56 UTC in reply to "RE: my system"
GCrain Member since:
2005-07-11

Did you try adding your EFI graphics card string into your com.apple.Boot.plist? http://forum.netkas.org/index.php/topic,64.msg1961.html#msg1961 Or did you install a driver like NVdarwin? http://www.filestube.com/n/nvdarwin


Yes, I tried adding it - both cards, but I still have NVinject installed, so maybe there is a conflict. I am going to remove NVinject and see if it is identified correctly with the proper EFI string written.
If I still have trouble, I'll flash the 8800GT with a Apple bios and be done with it.

Reply Score: 1

Two very interesting points
by alcibiades on Sun 7th Jun 2009 14:38 UTC
alcibiades
Member since:
2005-10-12

Two very interesting points have been made over on Ars about the legal issue.

The first point is that there is case law in the US which suggests that a EULA cannot preempt or lessen your rights granted under 117 of the copyright act. The case is Vault v Quaid.

The second is that you do not have to install OSX using the Apple installer. You can do it manually using standard decompression tools and moving the files yourself, in which case you will not have assented to the EULA.

The interesting thing here is that 117 gives you the right to do this, and more, with a copy of the software that you have bought. So you are doing an installation in a way that Federal law permits, without having assented to any EULA which lessens your rights, and with what the courts have ruled is your own property - a legally bought copy of the OS.

If this is correct, its case over. You can, if this is correct, lawfully install on whatever you want. It is an open and shut case.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Two very interesting points
by kaiwai on Mon 8th Jun 2009 02:30 UTC in reply to "Two very interesting points"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

People like me have always maintained that the 'protection' but Apple of Mac OS X was stupid to begin with. If individuals wish to install it on their machines then quite honestly all Apple have to say is, "Mac OS X is designed for Apple computers only; by installing this on a non-Apple computer you forfeit your right to support from Apple". It would retain what Apple wants, that is, Mac OS X is solely designed for Apple computers alone whilst at the same time those who want to install it on their computer can do so.

For those who think that the end of the world would occur; I doubt it would given that I can't see a vendor coming out any time soon to create Mac clones (if they removed protection and the portion of the EULA is invalidated directly by the court) not do can I see one of the big names jumping on board either.

Reply Score: 3

alcibiades Member since:
2005-10-12

Yes, basically agreed.

Reply Score: 2

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes, basically agreed.


I have to admit, if I could install it on a non-Apple computer without too much fuss and bother - I wouldn't bother about buying an Apple computer again; I'd probably go for a Lenovo Thinkpad and ThinkCentre given that they are low cost, attractive and reasonably priced.

Reply Score: 2

osx86 rules!
by osdeserter on Mon 8th Jun 2009 14:45 UTC
osdeserter
Member since:
2009-06-08

Hackintosh scene has came a long way. A year ago, I was skeptical about the performance and stability. I finally built one last month. The system is rock solid, stable and its performance easily rival mac pro costs two or three times the money!

core 2 quad/ 3x2GB ram/ 640gb hdd/ blu ray burner/ nvidia 9800gtx+
the mobo is gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R using iPC distro. later upgraded to 10.5.7.
SilverStone Strider ST75F 750W and a lian li case both done with professional cable sleeving! plus sound proof work for case too (sleeve and sound work alone costs 290 USD)
bunch of active/passive cooling components about $250+

the setup costs about 1720. minus all the extra stuff for 1200 i can match performance of mac pro. the final result is a beautiful unique machine inspired by this site:

http://www.million-dollar-pc.com/systems-2008/antec/p180/losmile-an...
http://www.million-dollar-pc.com/systems-2008/lian-li/mcp/lian-li-a...
http://www.million-dollar-pc.com/systems-2008/lian-li/losmile/losmi...
http://www.million-dollar-pc.com/systems-2008/lian-li/mcp/lian-li-p...

Frankly, mac mini, imac, macbook pro are all overpriced. mac pro on the other hand stapled with the workstation/server grade quality hence the price. Maybe one day Apple will produce a low price mac pro...

mac os x the Software platform is definitely worth the while to build a hackintosh. a serious contender is about to emerge (windows 7!) later this year. If I find win7 better than osx I might switch back to windows after all :p

Reply Score: 1