Chances are that you've already heard of and even visited Bing, Microsoft's new search offering
launched earlier in June, replacing the Live search of yesterday. It's
new, shiny, and has pretty pictures, but does it really have much
effect on the market? There have been those headlines claiming it's
"taken a bite out of Google," but, looking
at the statistics, it hasn't really affected the search industry
at all.
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Member since:
2006-02-05
I have a friend who works at google, and he laughed at me when I asked what they thought of bing as competition. It is just another revision of live search, which isn't awful, but not as good as google. Their competitive advantage is to add a whole bunch of extra crap to search results, which is the exact opposite of the strategy google employed to get it where it is now.
Live Search (now bing), is just the latest chapter in the utterly baffling strategy microsoft has employed in regards to web properties.
Member since:2009-03-11
Member since:
2006-01-14
No it hasnt done much yet. But that isnt the point. I dont understand why people dont look at this with great concern. We have the worlds largest OS maker, which surprise surprise, is also the worlds largest browser maker, jumping into a new market. Now where do you think they are going to get that new market dominance from? Well from the fact that Bing will be the default search engine in IE. And of course, they would say that is only natural that they use their search engine in their OS. But what is that going to do to the market? Well most people use IE because its the default. Most people who use IE will use Bing because it will be the default. Microsoft was just complaining to the FTC not too long ago about Google and Yahoo partnering. I wonder how Google feels about Microsoft using Windows and IE to push Bing?
Member since:2006-01-04
Member since:2005-07-24
Indeed, you are correct. And when you think about it, with that much of an unfair advantage, its pretty amazing that they have managed to do so poorly for so long. These are the kinds of things I think about when certain blinkered "free enterprise!" people try to tell me that MS has gotten where they are by making better products than their competition. Sometimes their overwhelming desktop monopoly leverage is strong enough to push inferior products into their own monopoly positions. But sometimes the product is *so* inferior that not even overwhelming monopoly leverage is enough to force people to use it.
Edited 2009-07-03 22:16 UTC
Member since:2005-06-29
Member since:2005-07-06
Member since:2006-01-14
kragil and others: Yes, Microsoft to date has had quite crappy search products. The problem is that they dont have to be better than everyone else. They only have to be good enough to not be shunned. Look at IE. Even when it was at its worst, it was still the dominant browser simply because it was the default and most people were unable/too lazy to change. I dont want to see that happen to Google because they actually earned their position.
Edited 2009-07-04 02:09 UTC
Member since:2006-07-30
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Member since:2007-01-01
I'd say that most users (even non-geeks) would say, "How to I get to Google so I can search", not just start using Bing.
Member since:2006-01-27
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2005-07-06
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Member since:2008-07-15
If Google sucked, Bing would be successful.
Oh, boy. Saying that on a site dedicated to operating systems? Here's a few angles you could apply to this general comment (warning: can of worms ahead):
If Windows sucked, Linux would be a mainstream desktop success.
If x86 sucked, we'd all be using PPC/Sparc/Whatever workstations...
Not trying to spark anything, but I just couldn't resist that comment.
Edited 2009-07-03 21:52 UTC
Member since:2007-01-01
If Windows sucked, Linux would be a mainstream desktop success.
If x86 sucked, we'd all be using PPC/Sparc/Whatever workstations...
Not trying to spark anything, but I just couldn't resist that comment.
This wasn't a 'general' comment. I'm saying that the only chance Bing would realistically have against Google, is if Google wasn't good at what they do. Relax.
Member since:2006-09-27
Member since:2005-07-06
I'm realistic. Some people will never change no matter what. If people are happy with what they have they wont change. However I don't believe people are happy with what they have, so Syllable has a chance to attract those people.
I am not unhappy with Google so I shall not try Bing.
Member since:2005-11-21
No. Why would I visit it? Google works fine for me thanks. "
With that attitude, how will you ever get people to try Syllable?
Windows and Mac OS X work fine for me thanks. [/q]
You don't. You try to convince developers [device driver developers and more] to try Syllabus first, a general audience second.
Member since:
2007-01-01
I tried Bing a few days after it was out and was not impressed by the search results.
I searched for "web design" in my local city and many Real Estate agents topped the list! WTF?
Nice try Bing.
I'd be glad to use somebody else, other than Google, if the results were better.
Member since:
2005-07-06
The only thing they changed with Bing was the name. The marketing people thought that Windows Live just wasn't cutting it as a name and tried to come up with something like Google that might bring up connotations of 'searching' in peoples' minds. Absolutely nothing else about it has changed.
The funniest thing I heard was the story that Sergey Brin was taking personal charge of a team himself to respond to Bing, so worried was he about it. The search results from it are still as useless as ever as far as I can see.
It's just getting desperate and laughable from Microsoft on the search front the more they try.
Member since:
2008-12-09
of course this wont affect the search industry in a big way but they do have a better marketing scheme and the results you get from bing are way better than the ones from live search;
my only experiences with live search are those of searching for "firefox" on a fresh windows system when there was only IE installed yet because live search would be the search engine it used when i entered something in the searchbar.
however it always proved to get me to a valid download link way faster by just enterering "mozilla.org" into the adress bar because the search results of live search were just crap
bing's better and therefore can compete with google; theres just no competition yet coz google doesnt lack anything and everyone uses google.
Member since:
2009-07-04
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2007-06-06
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2005-07-06
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2008-08-19
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2006-01-01
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Member since:2006-01-01
Go to Google and search for Unetbootin. I got 216,000 results. Do the same with Bing and you get 79,500 results.
Go to Google and search for: unetbootin-windows-357.exe. I got 296 results. Do the same with Bing, I got 2 results!
...2 results!! What the!!?? Can you believe it???
Based on the above criteria, it's enough to keep me using Google + I have a feeling when you search for Linux related matters on MS's search engine, the results might be biased since this is MS?? This is just a feeling that I have...
Edited 2009-07-04 11:25 UTC
Member since:2006-01-01
Here is another one:
USBASPI.SYS 2.27 on Google: 631 results
USBASPI.SYS 2.27 on Bing: 64 results
Should I say more? Google search is better, no doubt about it, I don't care how much they praise MS.
When it comes to specifics like this, Bing is next to useless in my own opinion...
Edited 2009-07-04 11:30 UTC
Member since:2006-01-12
Which most are rubbish. That's the main problem what I have with Google, most results are full of shit. It's a common problem with all search engines but Google seem to suffer it most since people know how to fool there crawler. Problem with Google search monopoly is advertising, they ads maybe less annoying than most competitors had BUT they can get more money on that.
Member since:2006-01-01
Yes it may be rubbish for the search engine but I prefer if "I" am the one the chooses what's rubbish and what's not rather than a computer. I am pretty sure if one wants to download or find something, some of that "filtered/hidden" rubbish (supposed to be) might have exactly the information or file you want even if it is in another language. In USBASPI.SYS case, the file is downloaded from a Japanese web site (Panasonic) where everything is written in Japanese but the file is English.
The user is the one that should choose what's rubbish and what's not -- you (the search engine) just show the results and let me decide what I want.
Edited 2009-07-04 21:51 UTC
Member since:2005-07-06
USBASPI.SYS 2.27 on Google: 631 results
USBASPI.SYS 2.27 on Bing: 64 results
ok, lets play
enter USBASPI.SYS 2.27 into google
it says 631 results
scroll to the bottom of the site and jump to page 10
you will be sent to page 7 with the results 61-68 of 68
pretty close to bing (which only finds 23 of the 79 results on the 1st page)
Edited 2009-07-04 23:58 UTC
Member since:2006-01-01
Ok, challenge accepted! 
I tried what you said and you are right! Now do the same with Bing: http://www.bing.com/search?q=USBASPI.SYS+2.27&go=&form=QBLH&filt=al... and you get 64 results. Click on the last page (page 5) and it says 31-32 of 33 results! - Here: http://www.bing.com/search?q=USBASPI.SYS+2.27&filt=all&first=41&FOR... + it says Page 4!
Edited 2009-07-05 04:44 UTC
Member since:2006-01-01
unetbootin-windows-357.exe
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=unetbootin-windows-357.exe&...
The first link is the link where you can download the file.
Go and do the same with Bing (good luck) http://www.bing.com/search?q=unetbootin-windows-357.exe&go=&form=QB...
Member since:2005-07-06
thats what i wrote (but i'm not sure if the 23 is a typo)
but the result is the same: the number of results is pure bogus
at the moment your post is #1 in google
Member since:2006-01-01
Hehe
Well, I guess Google's search engine does pick things up very quickly I will keep using Google and people are free to use Bing if they trust it and want to. I personally don't trust it and won't use it and I don't think there is anything MS can do to make me or people like me switch. Bing's front page looks more beautiful and MS thinks they can make people switch just because they put some pretty pics. It's not the outside; it's the inside that matters. I recommend MS sticks with what they do "creating operating systems" and leave the search business to professionals such as Google.
P.S I all of my posts above have been posted from Chrome
Edited 2009-07-05 09:52 UTC
Member since:2005-07-06
Actually the first two links are this thread
The third link is the project sourceforge page, which also happens to be the first link from Bing. What results where you getting?
Sure Bing only gives me three links, compared to Google's 66, but with Bing the link I actually wanted was the first one, so in this case Bing wins (or at least doesn't lose)
Member since:2006-01-01
Hmmm I don't know how this has come to be but now when you type unetbootin-windows-357.exe in Bing all of a sudden a desired link comes up! The project's source page. This was not like this yesterday. It had only the last two links where the first one has a different URL but has displayed the SourceForge logo.
As for Google, I just tested again and you are right. The first two links are the ones of this thread but yesterday, I got different results just like with Bing.
Edited 2009-07-06 08:51 UTC
Member since:2006-01-01
Aha!! Hahaha! How can anyone explain this!?
Search DeskAnker.exe in Google and you get 49 results!
Search DeskAnker.exe in Bing and you get 0 results!
I am almost sure there will be more cases like this. Face it, no one beats Google when it comes to specifics.
Edit: Most of the results on Google were crap BUT one of those rubbish link displayed was a real link to the software I wanted: http://downloads.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?docid=480715
Had I searched Bing only, I would not have found the file. Now, I don't really need the file as I have but I am just trying to demonstrate how better Google is. Google picks up absolutely everything.
Edited 2009-07-06 09:18 UTC
Member since:2008-12-16
http://www.bing.com/search?q=Linux&form=QBLH&scope=web&qs=n
It gives me good results, including the Wikipedia page and related searches if I want to see what Linux is all about.
But you do have a point. I believe it was some years ago when it was found that Microsoft tinkered with their results.
Member since:2009-06-18
I think this was covered before, but shouldn't a side effect of a good search engine is to provide the fewest results (given those results do match)?
In your search for that .exe file, say the answer is stored on one page on the entire Internet. If that result is contained in both results, wouldn't it be more efficient to find 1 result in a space of 2 results, rather than 1 result buried in 296 results?
Member since:
2006-09-03
Member since:2005-07-06
That is a pretty pointless test in my opinion without knowing how many of those results actually have anything of worth to say about "quattordicidodicizerodue".
Search should be a quality game not a quantity one. I'd rather just have 5 great links than 5 great links burried in 5000 links worth of noise.
After having checked out both search engines with your search word, it seems like bing has less spam links, which should definitely count in its favour compared to Google.
Member since:
2006-08-25
It's not bad. But for a search engine, I need a no frills approach. This is why google faired better than yahoo. (Yahoo startted going downhill when they introduced those annoying x10 rich popup ads.) The Microsoft team seems to think that a "prettier" search engine would be better. Google has been in the search engine business for a long time. Their text ads are non intrusive and their main search engine site is quite adept on your mobile device. Google search is a tool, and unless Microsoft adopt the utilitarian approach to search, it will never make any significant gains on google.
Member since:
2006-07-16
Bing has no chance of competing with Google. Google has become so vast and powerful even the word "Google" has entered the American lexicon as a synonym for searching. Aside from Google's dominance, most people expect Microsoft software to be fraught with problems or act in an overbearing and presumptuous manner (Microsoft Word autoformat anyone?) and I'm sure Bing is no exception.
Member since:
2006-11-07
I saw few commercial for Bing and they are desinformation. In ads I saw localised shopping results, animated video previews and many more. In current form Bing offers only "Web" and "Pictures" (no videos) tab, with "More" adding "xRank". None of which is even comparable with Google. If and only if Microsoft implement things shown in ads Bing would start to become interesting. Now its nothing, it's like Google 10 years ago.
Member since:
2005-11-21
Member since:
2006-01-04
B.I.N.G. doesn't pay me for using it!
Not that I ever used Live Search either, even when they were paying. (o:
Certainly there are aspects on both sides of the "more results" v. "less garbage" debate that will appeal to each user based on what results they want to have their search engine of choice produce for them.
It may also be argued that MS will adapt their product with the goal of being more competitive. The counter argument is that their new product *is* an adaptation derived from their previous products and that even though the name is new and the marketing now calls it a decision engine they haven't actually produced a better mousetrap yet.
There are a lot of factors that bear on a product's ability to capture market share. Functionality, ease of use, presentation aspects of the user interface, name awareness, reputation, etc.
My avoidance of the MS product is based on my perception of their reputation. If I actually start to use the product and find it suits my needs I won't hesitate to recommend it. Before that can happen they have a certain barrier to overcome in order to get me to use it. The validity of that barrier is extremely subjective since it is a function of my decision to avoid using their decision engine based on my opinion of the facts of their existence as a company. The functionality of that barrier is what they will have to undermine in order to add me to their user base.
So far their marketing isn't penetrating that barrier. So, I am admittedly prejudiced,YMMV.
Member since:
2009-07-06
"Shame on Microsoft. More shame on everybody who got caught in this cheap trick"
http://seekingalpha.com/article/144813-the-great-bing-scam