Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 11th Feb 2010 18:29 UTC
Opera Software Everybody's favourite Norwegian browser maker has released the beta version of Opera 10.50, the next iteration of the featureful web browser. As Kroc already touched upon late last year, Opera 10.50 comes packed with a lot of improvements across the board, from a new JavaScript engine to an improved address field.
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Comment by motang
by motang on Thu 11th Feb 2010 19:02 UTC
motang
Member since:
2008-03-27

Going to test it now, loved the pre-alpha and alpha build of it.

Reply Score: 1

Java plugin
by Matzon on Thu 11th Feb 2010 19:13 UTC
Matzon
Member since:
2005-07-06

Finally! proper Java (plugin2) support. About f* time!

Reply Score: 3

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Thu 11th Feb 2010 19:24 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

It’s not beta for Mac yet.

"Opera 10.50 alpha for Mac OS X:
While Opera 10.50 for Mac OS X is still not in beta, you can try the alpha version"

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Kroc
by lukic on Thu 11th Feb 2010 20:35 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
lukic Member since:
2006-09-23

It's not beta for Linux also ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by ebasconp on Thu 11th Feb 2010 21:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

That's because the experiments are done using rats first ;)

Just kiddin' !!!

Reply Score: 6

RE: Comment by Kroc
by libray on Fri 12th Feb 2010 16:29 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
libray Member since:
2005-08-27

Yep, they don't even have an alpha build for Solaris yet. I'm really interested to see how removing QT may or may not affect being able to run Adobe flash 10 on Opera, which has been broken for a while.

Reply Score: 2

I want to try it...
by Lazarus on Thu 11th Feb 2010 20:08 UTC
Lazarus
Member since:
2005-08-10

but currently I've only got a Mac and a couple old Linux/BSD boxes.

At least Chrome Beta 5.whatever is now available for both Mac and Linux... It is so nice to have extensions working...

Reply Score: 2

Lots of bugs and UI problems...
by Dave_K on Thu 11th Feb 2010 22:13 UTC
Dave_K
Member since:
2005-11-16

Normally I'm an Opera cheerleader, but I'm disappointed by how many bugs and broken features are in this beta. It's hard to get too excited by speed improvements when the UI makes a much bigger difference to my web browsing, and 10.5's UI currently has a lot of serious issues.

I guess if you just want to use it like a basic (I'd use the word crippled) browser like Chrome then it's OK, but use more advanced window management features - the main thing that sets Opera apart in my opinion - and it feels half finished. One of its best unique features, MDI browsing, is pretty much unusable in this version.

Opera 10.5 is probably the biggest change to Opera's UI since it was first released back in 1996, and I know that I shouldn't expect a beta to be flawless. It's just unusual to get an Opera beta that isn't feature complete and more-or-less fully functional. Every previous Opera release I can think of, going back to the earliest versions, was perfectly usable by the end of alpha testing, and all of the problems in the beta were reported several alpha snapshots ago.

Hopefully it'll all be working smoothly for the final release.

Apart from that I'm saddened by the way Opera has lost it's standard Windows look and feel. I usually prefer apps that fit the look of my OS, for example Foobar 2000 and VLC, rather than media players with fancy skins. I guess it's normal for applications to sacrifice consistency within an OS for cross platform standardisation, but it's still a direction I don't like to see Opera take.

Reply Score: 3

PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

I don't see any major bugs. MDI mostly works as it used to.

If you think it's unusual for a beta to not be feature complete, you certainly haven't used a lot of Opera betas ;)

Opera didn't have a Windows look and feel before. It does now. What you are referring to as "Windows look and feel" in previous versions was nothing but a custom skin!

You are getting it all upside down.

Reply Score: 1

Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

I don't see any major bugs. MDI mostly works as it used to.


MDI is so bug ridden and problematic in 10.5 it's pretty much unusable. Actually try using it for browsing - it's a complete mess.

For a start, it'll automatically maximise MDI windows if they can't fit fully in the main Opera window. This is just crazy in a browser where you turn on and off panels and drag down the tab bar to show visual tabs. Turn on a large panel or make the tab bar too large and suddenly all the cascaded MDI windows will maximise.

If you move MDI windows partially off screen then turning on or resizing any toolbar causes them to jump fully on screen. This on its own makes MDI in 10.5 a total pain to use.

Minimising pages doesn't work properly. There's no button on the MDI windows titlebar, and if you minimise from the Opera tab bar, then close Opera and restart the session, the minimised windows don't restore correctly.

Open a window in the background with a middle click and the background MDI window covers up the top window's window decoration.

There are quite a few other bugs too, like intermittent issues with resizing windows.

If you think it's unusual for a beta to not be feature complete, you certainly haven't used a lot of Opera betas ;)


I've used just about every Opera beta for years quite happily as my main browser. Normally Opera betas, and even some alphas, feel 99% complete with only minor issues and bugs.

This is the first one that I find unusable as a day to day browser, with major problems that render my favourite features a mess. I'd expect such obvious bugs to be fixed during alpha testing.

Opera didn't have a Windows look and feel before. It does now. What you are referring to as "Windows look and feel" in previous versions was nothing but a custom skin!


Total nonsense. Yes, you had to turn on the included 'Windows Native' skin, restoring the look that was the default in earlier versions of Opera, but that one change made Opera look and feel like a standard Windows MDI app.

Opera 10.5 does not look like a standard Windows app, even with a custom skin, and more importantly it definitely does not feel like one.

Edited 2010-02-12 11:38 UTC

Reply Score: 2

PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Actually, Opera does look much more like a native Windows application. At least if you are using a recent version of Windows. Get with the program, and get Windows 7. XP is dead.

As for betas being feature complete, you are wrong indeed.

Reply Score: 1

Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

Actually, Opera does look much more like a native Windows application. At least if you are using a recent version of Windows. Get with the program, and get Windows 7. XP is dead.


I'm using Vista, and I'll stick with a nice and simple look for my desktop. I don't need so many useless special effects and distractions in my UI, thanks.

Maybe a fancier looking Opera does fit the look of Windows 7, but Opera 10.5 definitely doesn't feel like a Windows app. Even with the default non-standard skin used in 10.10, it still felt more like a native Windows app than 10.5 does. This is more about feel and use than aesthetics.

Previous versions used standard MDI window management, with all the features and consistency that offered. Opera 10.5 replaces that with a non-standard in-house UI that feels very different in its current version.

I wouldn't mind if it offered significant advantages, but at the moment 10.5's window management is far more problematic and less functional than it was in 10.10.

As for betas being feature complete, you are wrong indeed.


I'm talking about previous Opera betas, not betas in general. In the past most Opera betas were feature complete, with bug fixes and minor tweaks often the only changes in the final release. They certainly didn't have so many badly broken features and obvious problems.

Reply Score: 2

PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Opera 10.5 fits perfectly into Vista. But you probably switched off the default VIsta theme and enabled the crappy old 80s-style Windows design instead?

Opera have obviously not optimized for that extreme corner-case.

If you use the standard themes, Opera fits perfectly.

Previous Opera betas have not been feature complete. Check out Opera's very own version history document.

There are no badly broken features in this beta. "Obvious problems" are mostly minor ones.

Reply Score: 1

Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

Opera 10.5 fits perfectly into Vista. But you probably switched off the default VIsta theme and enabled the crappy old 80s-style Windows design instead?


With Windows native skin, previous versions of Opera fitted in with the UI whether it was in Windows classic, XP's teletubby default, the IMO ugly and distracting Vista theme, whatever.

Sorry that I'm not so impressed by shiny, flashy things and just want something clean and functional...

If you use the standard themes, Opera fits perfectly.


No, it doesn't. Try to understand that I'm talking about the feel, not just the aesthetics. Like I said: Opera no longer has the standard Windows MDI features, consistent with numerous other Windows apps, that it had since the very first version.

At the moment that loss is causing a lot of usability problems, at least for those of us who use some of Opera's most unique and powerful features.

Previous Opera betas have not been feature complete. Check out Opera's very own version history document.


I've used many previous Opera betas, had a look at that document, and I still think you're talking nonsense.

Tweaks and bug fixes - that's generally all that changes between beta and the final release. There are one or two exceptions, but nothing compared with the amount of broken functionality in 10.5. There are past alpha tests have had far fewer major issues.

I always try betas of Opera when they're released, and this is the first one that I haven't been willing to use as my day-to-day browser. The first beta where there are too many major problems for me to use it without constant annoyance and frustration.

There are no badly broken features in this beta. "Obvious problems" are mostly minor ones.


To me MDI window management has always been one of Opera's most important features - one that set it apart from other browsers since it was first released. In Opera 10.5 it's a bug ridden, barely usable, mess of broken functionality, no different from how it was in the pre-alpha, when those problems were first reported.

Reply Score: 2

PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

With Windows native skin, previous versions of Opera fitted in with the UI whether it was in Windows classic, XP's teletubby default, the IMO ugly and distracting Vista theme, whatever.

I disagree, but never mind. The "native" skin wasn't even standard. Now Opera actually fits with the default Windows theme.

"If you use the standard themes, Opera fits perfectly.

No, it doesn't. Try to understand that I'm talking about the feel, not just the aesthetics. Like I said: Opera no longer has the standard Windows MDI features, consistent with numerous other Windows apps, that it had since the very first version.
"
You mean MDI like Internet Explorer? Your claims are laughable. Never mind the fact that the context here is look and feel. Opera's MDI has always been different from everyone else. It isn't even proper MDI anymore (they have made a huge number of hacks to make it more SDI-like).

At the moment that loss is causing a lot of usability problems, at least for those of us who use some of Opera's most unique and powerful features.

But that's a completely different claim from the claim that it doesn't look like a native Windows app.

I've used many previous Opera betas, had a look at that document, and I still think you're talking nonsense.

Again, you are wrong. Search for "final" here:

http://www.opera.com/docs/history/#facts

Just some examples of features added in final versions, not betas:

Dragonfly, cookie manager, fraud protection, NTLM support, User JS, password manager...

Tweaks and bug fixes - that's generally all that changes between beta and the final release.

Wrong.

There are one or two exceptions, but nothing compared with the amount of broken functionality in 10.5. There are past alpha tests have had far fewer major issues.

Wrong again.

I always try betas of Opera when they're released, and this is the first one that I haven't been willing to use as my day-to-day browser.

So what? You don't represent everyone else. Hardly anyone cares about MDI.

To me MDI window management has always been one of Opera's most important features

Yeah, but you don't represent most people.

In Opera 10.5 it's a bug ridden, barely usable, mess of broken functionality, no different from how it was in the pre-alpha, when those problems were first reported.

Nonsense. They have fixed a lot of MDI stuff since the pre-alpha.

Reply Score: 1

StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Get with the program, and get Windows 7. XP is dead.


I'm sure Microsoft wishes that were so, but it's still the single most widely-used desktop OS. Its death throes are probably going to last a while.

Reply Score: 2

Sunspider Javascript test
by warhoon on Fri 12th Feb 2010 00:39 UTC
warhoon
Member since:
2006-11-19

I downloaded and tested the new beta, and I did a quick javascript test to compare it to the newest Firefox and Chrome, and found it about 2 times as quick as both of them.......

So, whatever they at Opera are doing, whatever opinions you might have on the new UI (which I actually kind of like), the Javascript engine seems to be on steroids!

Reply Score: 1

Comment by 2e7ah
by 2e7ah on Fri 12th Feb 2010 08:17 UTC
2e7ah
Member since:
2010-02-12

Released on wrong stage, like most their betas

First - DON'T try installing over your current version - you'll get one big mess

Windows 7 interface look try ala MS Office + OSX dropdown for search bar - looks silly

All tabs are opened in new windows, it's always on top. I lost(?) menu bar icon (top left) than trying to do something with Alt+F10/Shift+F12, failed at customizing buttons - than I just sat back, uninstalled and went back to 10.10 with additional 15 min spent

My experience - awful release, never again in Opera betas until stable release is there

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by 2e7ah
by PresentIt on Fri 12th Feb 2010 17:09 UTC in reply to "Comment by 2e7ah"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

You aren't supposed to install betas over final versions.

What makes you think it was released at the wrong stage? It seems to be just fine to me. Most people are praising it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by 2e7ah
by 2e7ah on Fri 12th Feb 2010 19:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by 2e7ah"
2e7ah Member since:
2010-02-12

You aren't supposed to install betas over final versions.

Yeah, installer shouldn't in the first place let installing over existent version, but that's another story
Also try installing 10.10 over 10.50 beta for fun

What makes you think it was released at the wrong stage? It seems to be just fine to me. Most people are praising it.

It depends what beta means to you, to me it looks like pre-alpha. Take up mentioned foobar2000 beta releases as example

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by 2e7ah
by PresentIt on Fri 12th Feb 2010 20:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by 2e7ah"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

How does it look like pre-alpha? It's relatively stable, and there are no major problems.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by 2e7ah
by 2e7ah on Fri 12th Feb 2010 20:30 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by 2e7ah"
2e7ah Member since:
2010-02-12

It's too buggy, man
Don't want to repeat obvious and what's been already said, here or on beta forums
Opera is my default browser since version 3.6 and I don't like to see it betas working crippled like this
It's because I care

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by 2e7ah
by PresentIt on Fri 12th Feb 2010 22:42 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by 2e7ah"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

I don't find it to be crippled at all.

Reply Score: 0

RE[6]: Comment by 2e7ah
by 2e7ah on Sat 13th Feb 2010 07:17 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by 2e7ah"
2e7ah Member since:
2010-02-12

Oh man, you are so persistent ;)
It behavior is different than current stable, and will be different then next stable, because some thing aren't right:
Why does it open tabs in new windows when I set it not to do so?
Why it's on top of other windows so I can't use my auto-hide taskbar?
How come I can't remove some buttons if I go to Appearance > buttons, but then I can if exit Appearance dialog
I really hope toolbar will have major polish, as it distracts from whole layout (Opera 10.10 balances fine between Windows/OSX look - but new beta brutally mixes them - take a look at drop down boxes on "address bar", or just look at any toolbar or panel: if decision was made towards Windows 7 look, stick to it)
And I just tried it briefly, because I was quickly disappointed by overall - who knows what else is left there ;)

It's sure faster than before which is great, and Opera was always fastest browser on my Windows

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by 2e7ah
by PresentIt on Sat 13th Feb 2010 11:03 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by 2e7ah"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Oh man, you are so persistent ;)

No more than you are...

It behavior is different than current stable, and will be different then next stable, because some thing aren't right:

Uh, it's a beta.

Why does it open tabs in new windows when I set it not to do so?

What tabs?

I really hope toolbar will have major polish, as it distracts from whole layout (Opera 10.10 balances fine between Windows/OSX look - but new beta brutally mixes them

Not really. Opera 10.5 actually looks like a Windows Vista/7 application.

Reply Score: 1

Overall it's not bad
by Francis on Fri 12th Feb 2010 14:29 UTC
Francis
Member since:
2005-07-07

While I agree that it currently has a lot of bugs (check out the desktop team blog - it's a lot for a "beta") and though I don't really use MDI a lot in Opera, I think people shouldn't be deterred from trying it out - as long as they make it a separate install!

I imagine that the changes involved are huge, so I'm willing to forgive the shakiness of the recent releases...but the speed and polish are simply awesome! I've been using it as my main browser, and the bugs and crashes seem to be disappearing at a rapid rate.

When it is ready it will be leaps and bounds beyond Opera 10.1, and really be competitive with Chrome and Firefox.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Overall it's not bad
by PresentIt on Fri 12th Feb 2010 17:10 UTC in reply to "Overall it's not bad"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

What I see in the desktop team blog is a bunch of people repeating the same minor issues over and over again. Not really an usual amount of of bugs.

Reply Score: 1

browser war
by bobi on Sat 13th Feb 2010 01:07 UTC
bobi
Member since:
2005-11-14

who cares about browser war!
opera is a fine browser
chrome is a fine browser
safari is a fine browser
heck.. wait for it..
explorer is a fine browser

fact is. firefox ppl actually care about the Right things and that's why I use it. They're the good guys. They're reliable. They try to make the web and therefore the world (it has such a huge impact if you think about it) a better place.
they've all my support.

Reply Score: 1

The latest Beta has been good for me...
by Tuishimi on Sat 13th Feb 2010 17:27 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

Sites that previously did not work in the Alpha now do work (corporate, internal sites, etc.)

I like the look and feel of this version. I wish there was a stripped down version, sans email and other "apps;" just a browser.

Other than that I think it looks pretty usable.

Reply Score: 2