Linked by Eugenia Loli on Thu 17th Feb 2011 00:14 UTC
Apple Well, it might be safe to say that Apple's own engineers stopped testing their Apple apps with 3.x iOS devices, and have created bugs that make these apps unusable. This is to be somewhat expected, Apple has a track record of not-so-great backwards compatibility (on the Mac), but what we also expected was to not get these broken updates forced to us. It's one thing to stop updating the firmware of older iOS models, and another thing breaking them.
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It just...
by tupp on Thu 17th Feb 2011 01:00 UTC
tupp
Member since:
2006-11-12

breaks.

Reply Score: 4

RE: It just...
by Radio on Thu 17th Feb 2011 10:10 UTC in reply to "It just..."
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

Fragmentation? In my Apple ecosystem?

That's more likely than you think.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: It just...
by tupp on Thu 17th Feb 2011 18:34 UTC in reply to "RE: It just..."
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12
Planned obsolence is part of the strategy
by kragil on Thu 17th Feb 2011 01:05 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

Apples success is based on lock-in and control. You aren't supposed to use Apple devices for more than 3 or 4 years. The battery should be dead now or it should die soon. So the number of people that will complain about this in relation to general consumers will be small.

Apple can't keep it's current stock price if profits don't go up, so you have to buy new devices every 2 years. Real Apple fans will have no problem with that.

Reply Score: 9

Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

The 3.1.2 firmware is not more than 1.5 years old though. If not for the devices themselves, that software version should have been supported for longer. However, as I tried to explain in the article, it's NOT about supporting. If Apple doesn't want to support these devices/firmwares, that's fine. My problem comes with BREAKING them. There's a *distinct difference* there.

I'm well aware of how Apple has conducted business with its Mac lines, and how they eliminated older products from new OSX versions, drivers etc. But you see, they never *broke* these Macs! I still have my Powerbook from 2003, it still works without problems, and the apps that don't work with it, well, they don't even install.

But in this case, we're FORCED updates or apps (the App Store update was remote), or we're led to believe that some apps showing as updatable are compatible with our device, when they're clearly not!

If this is part of the plan as you claim, to *break devices on purpose after a while so people buy new stuff*, then this could go to court. I'm not a lawyer, neither I'm interested to sue, but if what you say is true, then this whole thing feels like a con. But I don't believe that Apple is a con artist company. I think they just took the whole matter not very seriously, and stopped testing with 3.x to save engineering time. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm just not happy with the whole situation.

Edited 2011-02-17 01:26 UTC

Reply Score: 4

daedliusswartz Member since:
2007-05-28

This is to be somewhat expected

So don't buy the product if you "somewhat expect" this sort of thing.

Reply Score: 0

Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

Read the sentence more carefully. The "expected" is for non-extended support, not the actual problem discussed.

I really hate it when people use words out of context just to have their way and change what the author wanted to convey. Really cheap on your part.

Reply Score: 5

t3RRa Member since:
2005-11-22

If you visit Korea and see what is happening over there, you would be very surprised then. Keeping a phone for more than a year or two? They would respond "How??" and/or "Why??" .. For them it doesn't matter which brand; Samsung, LG or whatever. .. Oh, the only exception is iPhone.


:) (Oh, I forgot to add a smiley)

Edited 2011-02-17 01:22 UTC

Reply Score: 2

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Apples success is based on lock-in and control. You aren't supposed to use Apple devices for more than 3 or 4 years. The battery should be dead now or it should die soon. So the number of people that will complain about this in relation to general consumers will be small.

Apple can't keep it's current stock price if profits don't go up, so you have to buy new devices every 2 years. Real Apple fans will have no problem with that.


So hang on, it is apparently ok when Android vendors throw their customers under the train every 6 months but it is a travesty when devices older than 2 years don't get a operating system upgrade. Am I the only one who observes this bullshit trend here on OSNews and the number who whine about Apple but ignore what Android vendors do? Planned obsolesce part of the strategy? I'd say it is more the question, "How long does the average customer keep their phone and is it worth pandering to the 2% of cheapskates out there who expect their devices to last for ever?"

Why is it when Android vendors have some of the worst track records when it comes to customer support there are morons here who praise Android for its openness (whilst ignoring the fact that the only way you can upgrade it yourself is to hack the device - I thought it was meant to be open source! if it was open source in my definition of the concept then I shouldn't need to hack the device to apply an upgrade! I should be able to grab the source, compile it and then transfer the image the phone!) and yet ignore what is happening out in the real world. I swear the hatred of Apple by some has blinded them to how they're being shafted by the organisations they put up as champions.

For those who think I am an iPhone fanboy, I don't even own one - I'm holdout for the WP7 phone to come to New Zealand on the XT Network.

Edited 2011-02-17 01:58 UTC

Reply Score: 0

TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Who mentioned Android?

Reply Score: 2

Praxis Member since:
2009-09-17

Not exactly the same. Android makers just tend to abandon it. (I would never buy an android device I wasn't willing to hack personally)

Eugenia is complaining about updates that actively break things. Getting updates that break stuff is worse than not getting updates in the first place.

This doesn't validate the lackluster Android update process in any way though, bringing it into the conversion however is distracting and an invitation to flame wars.

Reply Score: 13

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Not exactly the same. Android makers just tend to abandon it. (I would never buy an android device I wasn't willing to hack personally)

Eugenia is complaining about updates that actively break things. Getting updates that break stuff is worse than not getting updates in the first place.

This doesn't validate the lackluster Android update process in any way though, bringing it into the conversion however is distracting and an invitation to flame wars.


Well then Apple is at fault for having a 'maximum tested' but no 'minimum version test for' - something that Apple needs to get sorted out but then again such issues also exist with Android when they moved from the interpreter based running to JIT - some applications 'had issues' with the new way of doing things.

All in all I think that all vendors need to lift their game but the problem sits in two camps; she is running a phone over 3 years old but at the same time its Apple's responsibility to have a minimum tested so that updates aren't pushed onto iOS releases that have known issues resolved in later updates.

Reply Score: 2

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

All in all I think that all vendors need to lift their game but the problem sits in two camps; she is running a phone over 3 years old but at the same time its Apple's responsibility to have a minimum tested so that updates aren't pushed onto iOS releases that have known issues resolved in later updates.


What a load of BS. This is nothing other than Apple's fault. You should be able to use an older device with the features it came with until it dies without additional updates from the manufacturer. It is in no way Eugina's fault. Apple screwed up her device, she did nothing to cause it.

Reply Score: 3

tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

First of all, no one in this thread has mentioned Android nor compared Android phones to Iphones. Furthermore, there happen to be several other smartphone OSs that are non-Apple. I own a Palm Treo that is three years old and still going strong. It's very solid, and I intend to use it for many years to come.

Secondly, the author has explained in this thread that the problem with her Apple device is not exactly a lack of support -- the problem is support that actually breaks her Apple device. Google, Apple and others may abandon support for their devices, but bricking those devices for their unsuspecting owners is something else entirely.

Reply Score: 8

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

First of all, no one in this thread has mentioned Android nor compared Android phones to Iphones. Furthermore, there happen to be several other smartphone OSs that are non-Apple. I own a Palm Treo that is three years old and still going strong. It's very solid, and I intend to use it for many years to come.


I raised it because Android is the second option in the marketplace at the moment until WP7 is more widely spread around the world and on more networks. If you're going to complain about something then it should be only fair to benchmark it against something which in my case I use iOS's greatest competitor, Android, as that benchmark. If you're going to complain you never are going to complain about something in a vacuum - it'll be based off a culmination of experiences in the past and what exists today. When I praise Mac OS X, I don't do it in a vacuum I do it based on my past experiences using a variety of operating systems - my evaluation therefore never occurs in a vacuum.

Secondly, the author has explained in this thread that the problem with her Apple device is not exactly a lack of support -- the problem is support that actually breaks her Apple device. Google, Apple and others may abandon support for their devices, but bricking those devices for their unsuspecting owners is something else entirely.


She has a buggy application - her whole device didn't 'brick'. A bricked device would mean her whole operating system image was corrupted in some way and is unable to either boot or recovered. From what I read it was a buggy application due to some shoddy testing and setup at Apple's end but then again I guess I'm lucky that I'm happy to upgrade every 2-3 years.

Reply Score: 2

Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

>If you're going to complain about something then it should be only fair to benchmark it against something which in my case I use iOS's greatest competitor, Android

Sure, no problem. Google's own apps and services still work without a problem on Android 1.5 phones, an OS version released in April 2009 (which is the OLDEST version of Android still out there on handsets). Remember, the problematic iOS 3.1.2 firmware version is NEWER than Android 1.5. It is NOT a matter of how old the handset is, but how old the firmware is, because the bugs I see are software-related, not driver/hardware-based.

So, going back to Android, the new Android versions of these apps were released by Google, but they were not forced on these older handsets, they only made available on the new firmware versions only (versions that the software was actually tested on). I ask nothing more of Apple too.

>it was a buggy application due to some shoddy testing and setup at Apple's end

It is your right to see the issue as a simple bug awaiting fixing, but I don't share your opinion. One after the other the Apple apps are reproducibly broken on these older devices (2 official Apple apps in 1.5 months), so I see this as the beginning of the end. Sure the OS might still load, but if most of your apps don't work anymore, what good is it? It'd be practically-speaking, a brick. We're not at that point yet, but if this trends continues, and Apple/devs are not more careful on how they mark their apps compatible as, these devices will be practically unusable in just a few short months.

Edited 2011-02-17 07:15 UTC

Reply Score: 6

t3RRa Member since:
2005-11-22

Just one thing came into my mind that the newer release date of the firmware does not necessarily means it is more compatible. But rather API/ABI/Library compatibilities do. So there might be more difference between iOS 3.1.2 and 4.1.x than between Android 1.5 and 1.6. That is what major and minor numberings are for.

Reply Score: 1

Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

Why are you even compare Android 1.5 to 1.6, and then suggesting that 3.1.2 might have bigger differences with 4.x? The point is that Android 1.5 Google apps still work! I'm not interested what Android 1.6 or 2.3, or iOS 4.x are capable of. I'm only asking to continue using my device without bad surprises! The only firmware I'm interested in comparing it with is with itself, back when it was working! I'm not asking for upgrades!

As I said in the beginning, I still have a 2003 Powerbook that works. When new apps/updates/OSes came out, they were not falsely presented as compatible, available for updating/installation, and they were not forced to my laptop either. I just want the same here. This is not much to ask for. To me, that should have been the default!

Reply Score: 3

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Sure, no problem. Google's own apps and services still work without a problem on Android 1.5 phones, an OS version released in April 2009 (which is the OLDEST version of Android still out there on handsets). Remember, the problematic iOS 3.1.2 firmware version is NEWER than Android 1.5. It is NOT a matter of how old the handset is, but how old the firmware is, because the bugs I see are software-related, not driver/hardware-based.


But even then there are applications that didn't transition so well from interpreted to JIT - I can't name the exact names but I do remember people running Android 2.2 and finding that some 1.6 applications didn't run so well. As noted in another post I made, they need to have a minimum required so that updates aren't offered to customers running older iOS versions where the newer version of the application requires a newer version to function properly.

So, going back to Android, the new Android versions of these apps were released by Google, but they were not forced on these older handsets, they only made available on the new firmware versions only (versions that the software was actually tested on). I ask nothing more of Apple too.


Agreed.

It is your right to see the issue as a simple bug awaiting fixing, but I don't share your opinion. One after the other the Apple apps are reproducibly broken on these older devices (2 official Apple apps in 1.5 months), so I see this as the beginning of the end. Sure the OS might still load, but if most of your apps don't work anymore, what good is it? It'd be practically-speaking, a brick. We're not at that point yet, but if this trends continues, and Apple/devs are not more careful on how they mark their apps compatible as, these devices will be practically unusable in just a few short months.


But hang on for a second, lets back up the car and look at the situation - you're running a device that is over 4 years old, I'd say that is pretty damn good if you ask me where most people would have updated already. This goes back to what I said about Android and why I raised it; with Apple you got 4 years of functionality out of a device and in the case of an Android device it is a 'brick' within 6 months. I can understand your frustration regarding the application but I'm confused how you consider a device 4 years old not a good indication of a company actually giving a flying continental about its customers.

Reply Score: 2

bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

NathanHill blustered...

Apple was willing to send engineers to see the software problem in action? And you are complaining that they are bricking your device and/or don't support it? What? I wish Apple engineers would come to my house when something was the matter.


So does Eugenia. Read the article--those engineers never came.

kaiwai sneered...
She has a buggy application - her whole device didn't 'brick'. A bricked device would mean her whole operating system image was corrupted in some way and is unable to either boot or recovered. From what I read it was a buggy application due to some shoddy testing and setup at Apple's end


No, this is more than an application issue--this is a corruption of the entire ecosystem. Apple's excuse for having such a locked down app store has been that they so rigorously test the applications they allow in the store. This is why all apps have to be approved, why Apple demands money up front and then a cut of the profits, etc. Because they test everything.

Having the Apple App Store claim an app is available for your device which doesn't work on your device is simply not acceptable. They need to either test everything or stop demanding so much for so little.

kaiwai declared...
you're running a device that is over 4 years old, I'd say that is pretty damn good if you ask me where most people would have updated already.


It's an iPod Touch. A music and video player that runs some simple applications...hey! That makes it a computer! You don't replace your still functioning computer every four years or less do you? Why should anyone replace their iPod Touch that soon when it is still functional in hardware and only poorly tested application and operating system updates that are causing the issues? Issues that given Apple's software ecosystem should not exist?

The same thing with the iPhone, only it also makes phone calls. It's a portable computer which is still functional in hardware, just suffering through issues that should not exist considering the Apple application ecosystem. Considering that they are planning on adding App Stores to their desktops and laptops in the next revision of their operating system this development does not leave me feeling very happy. I was considering a MacBook my next time out as my eeepc is starting to feel its age, but with this type of support I'm no longer so sure...

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Score: 2

TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

The app update process is broken, too.

RTFA

Reply Score: 2

phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

Updating the update process will fix it.
No, wait!

Nevermind.

Reply Score: 2

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

See that right there is the crux of the problem. Anyone who doesn't share the view that Apple is the devil incarnate, or that Google isn't the messiah of the tech industry, by default MUST be an Apple fanboy.


Unfortunately so; or anyone who praises Microsoft for a good decision must either praise Microsoft for all decisions ever taken or must automatically hate some other organisation because of said praise for Microsoft. It is amazing the number of people who hate on Microsoft from the Mac community and hold them to an unrealistically high standard yet willing to over look short falls of Microsofts competitors products. Case in point, iWork vs. Microsoft Office 2011 being the best example - haters going to hate because its from Microsoft - yes there are bugs but to ignore the massive missing features from iWork pretty much destroys ones argument against Microsoft.

Oh, and btw, where the hell did it say anything about bricking the device? An App breaking is hardly bricking the device. FFS grow up...


This forum runs on drama; lives, breaths and eats drama - where would it be without it?

Reply Score: 2

HappyGod Member since:
2005-10-19

So let me get this straight, you're suggesting that we have no right to complain about this breaking of functionality? Or if we do, we're just blinded by our Apple hatred?

You know what, you're right, let's all put our hands together for Apple's job well done. See you at the medal ceremony in two weeks.

Reply Score: 5

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

So let me get this straight, you're suggesting that we have no right to complain about this breaking of functionality? Or if we do, we're just blinded by our Apple hatred?

You know what, you're right, let's all put our hands together for Apple's job well done. See you at the medal ceremony in two weeks.


No one said that - how about having some balance.

Reply Score: 2

Risteard Member since:
2011-02-17

Sorry sorry, wait.

What do you think?

Who has ever said Android is better?

Assuming that Google support is crap, doesn't mean that what apple does is right. And hey, have you read the article? Our guy here said he *DOESN'T* want any update from Apple. Have you read it? Have you read that Apple DOES update old devices, but providing UNTESTED software that actually makes them UNUSABLE? Ok, that's the problem.

This was not a comparison of which company is better or worse. Because if my previous iPod has been made unusable, I don't really care about android stuff. That's all.

Reply Score: 3

t3RRa Member since:
2005-11-22

I have assumed he meant that the article is blaming a company too much. possible much more that it deserves. my thought.

Reply Score: 1

M.Onty Member since:
2009-10-23

So hang on, it is apparently ok when Android vendors throw their customers under the train every 6 months but it is a travesty when devices older than 2 years don't get a operating system upgrade. Am I the only one who observes this bullshit trend here on OSNews and the number who whine about Apple but ignore what Android vendors do? Planned obsolesce part of the strategy? I'd say it is more the question, "How long does the average customer keep their phone and is it worth pandering to the 2% of cheapskates out there who expect their devices to last for ever?"


If your definition of a cheapskate is someone who keeps a £500 device for more than two years before ditching it, I don't envy your bank balance. Actually, I might envy your bank balance as it suggests you've got enough in it to render that amount shall change. For many people though, that's almost two months rent.

Its not just about "How long does the average customer keep their phone". The average iPhone buyer may be well off, but there will be a significant minority for whom this is a one time expense. Their brand commitment should be acknowledged.

Reply Score: 3

polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

I agree with you completely. For OSnews members, Apple is the new fun company to bash. Which is why I don't come here all that often anymore. It's not that I'm a diehard fanboy. I own a Mac, but also run Windows and Linux (and BSD now too).

I just get tired of the obvious slant here. It's about as unbiased as Fox News.

That being said, Eugenia is right about the updating thing. They need to put in a mechanism for realizing you've only got version 3.1.x on your device, and not automatically push out updates if it's incompatible.

That doesn't seem to be too much to ask. However I fail to see how this bug has caused so much trouble. Don't we all keep backups of the older versions of the tiny apps? Or is that just me?

I've actually run into this myself, and if you've got the older version, it's just not that big of a deal.

Reply Score: 2

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Apple is the new fun company to bash


Right, I guess that's why every Apple product review I or we have ever ran has been utterly positive.

I guess you just don't understand that there are people who don't feel anything when it comes to a company, and just judge its individual products and actions on their merits - instead of the entire company as a whole.

Reply Score: 3

polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

yeah, that's exactly what I said Thom, and I singled you out personally.

Jesus, learn some reading comprehension.

Reply Score: 2

TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

"or we"
Shut up.

Reply Score: 2

M.Onty Member since:
2009-10-23

Right, I guess that's why every Apple product review I or we have ever ran has been utterly positive.


To be fair to Polaris, he did specify OSNews members, which suggests he's talking about comments rather than reviews.

I guess you just don't understand that there are people who don't feel anything when it comes to a company, and just judge its individual products and actions on their merits - instead of the entire company as a whole.


Very few techie minded people (and there can't be many non-techie minded people reading this web site regularly) don't have some sort of 'feeling' for Apple as a whole.

Reply Score: 1

TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

It's not a slant if Apple's actually doing evil things.
I'm shocked it's taken the world so long to realise this company is just as bad as any tech company I can think of, and worse in many ways.

It's like someone saying "I'm sick of the slant against Dick Cheney on SomethingFoo!" ...No, he's just the devil.

Reply Score: 2

testman Member since:
2007-10-15

You've got a loose definition of "evil" my friend. I'd hardly compare aggressive business tactics to the real evils of slavery and genocide.

Reply Score: 2

TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Evil is a relative term and a gradient scale.
World != black&white

Reply Score: 2

Skai Member since:
2010-08-19

Android includes in the apps design a minimum os requirement.

I believe Apple's apps too.

Here, the only responsibles are people who pretended their update was available on 3.x series, what it obviously is not.

It's certainly a human mistake, most certainly a lack of prooper test. period.

Reply Score: 1

they don't care
by stabbyjones on Thu 17th Feb 2011 02:14 UTC
stabbyjones
Member since:
2008-04-15

If you haven't spent money on them lately they don't care if you have problems. It's been happening for years.

Reply Score: 3

RE: they don't care
by Morgan on Thu 17th Feb 2011 04:29 UTC in reply to "they don't care"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Unfortunately that's how it is all over the industry, not just with Apple. Look at Sony with the PS3. They go so far as to advertise its Linux compatibility, then when a bunch of geeks go out and buy loss-leader PS3s to run Linux instead of buying and playing near-100% profit games, they put out a series of firmware updates to remove the Linux compatibility. It's pure bait-and-switch but the mainstream press didn't even bat an eye at it.

Bottom line, if you're a good little consumer you'll get shafted to your face, but if you're a penny pincher who likes to hold on to old tech that's still otherwise useful, you get bent over and shafted behind the building. Either way they screw you.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: they don't care
by TheGZeus on Thu 17th Feb 2011 05:52 UTC in reply to "RE: they don't care"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

This is why I never buy hardware for which I cannot supply the software.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: they don't care
by adricnet on Fri 18th Feb 2011 13:47 UTC in reply to "RE: they don't care"
adricnet Member since:
2005-07-01

I believe the "bunch of geeks" you refer to is the United States Air Force.

Carry on, then.

Reply Score: 1

the real problem
by TechGeek on Thu 17th Feb 2011 02:36 UTC
TechGeek
Member since:
2006-01-14

If you are still under contract for that phone, it better damn well still work. This is really BS! You enter a contract for the phone, pay for it for 2 years, and then when you are done, they break it? Would you allow your auto dealer to junk your car right after you make the last payment? After the contract is up, the phone is YOURS! Apple destroying it is destruction of property they don't own. Someone needs to sue these ***holes.

Reply Score: 4

culture of acceptance
by sirrahn on Thu 17th Feb 2011 03:08 UTC
sirrahn
Member since:
2006-07-25

Personally, I think the android comment is relevant. Apple breaking your apps is different, but the bigger picture is a woeful culture of support for mobile technology - and one that seems to be implicitly accepted (despite being environmentally unsound).

I'm thinking back to my Sony clie that ran on the old palm os. As soon as you bought one of these you knew that it would be abandoned as far as upgrades went. That was always the strategy to get you to upgrade your hardware. At least things have improved a little bit - didn't ios4 install on at least some devices that came out with ios3?

I'm not defending it. Be good to know which vendors are actually willing to update their devices. Maybe if devices/vendors were actively compared on this is would help?

Reply Score: 2

Seriously?
by NathanHill on Thu 17th Feb 2011 04:01 UTC
NathanHill
Member since:
2006-10-06

I know it's my own experience, but I have a 1st Gen iPod Touch and have not encountered any of these problems. Still works great to download and update applications.

And seriously - Apple was willing to send engineers to see the software problem in action? And you are complaining that they are bricking your device and/or don't support it? What? I wish Apple engineers would come to my house when something was the matter.

Or any engineer. Crazy.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Seriously?
by Eugenia on Thu 17th Feb 2011 04:23 UTC in reply to "Seriously?"
Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

>update applications.

Everyone else I discussed the issue could not update via the app store in these 3.x devices. You're the first who claims it works.

To test something: temporarily remove the credit card information from your iTunes account, and then try to update an app through the device's App Store. Not install anew, but update via the apps's own "update" button (not the "update all").

Over here, on two different devices, and everyone else I read with similar devices, can't update.

>And seriously - Apple was willing to send engineers to see the software problem in action?

No, it was for a DIFFERENT problem, not the recent App Store one, which is the main issue discussed in the article. It was for the "Remote" app. They never came btw. The first time out of the two I was waiting for them all day.

Besides, just because they promised to do something that eventually didn't do, doesn't mean that I have to pay lip service to them for breaking even more apps a month later! You might feel that I need to give Apple an easier time for being friendly, and possibly never write this article I wrote, but the bottomline is the App Store is broken, and so is the Remote app.

Edited 2011-02-17 04:29 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Bug.
by konrad on Thu 17th Feb 2011 06:34 UTC
konrad
Member since:
2006-01-06

http://developer.apple.com/bugreporter/

Its a bug, file a report!

Reply Score: 0

RE: Bug.
by TheGZeus on Thu 17th Feb 2011 06:36 UTC in reply to "Bug."
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

RTFA

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Bug.
by konrad on Thu 17th Feb 2011 06:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Bug."
konrad Member since:
2006-01-06

RTFA


Well, it might be safe to say that Apple's own engineers stopped testing their Apple apps with 3.x iOS devices, and have created bugs that make these apps unusable.

Clearly bugs.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Bug.
by TheGZeus on Thu 17th Feb 2011 06:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Bug."
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

"After filing a bug report..."
RTFA

Reply Score: 4

RE: Bug.
by Eugenia on Thu 17th Feb 2011 06:49 UTC in reply to "Bug."
Eugenia Member since:
2005-06-28

Bug reports have already being filed, it's mentioned in the article. But it's a different thing when bugs happen as part of the normal process, and when bugs happen because they don't test anymore with older versions (which is what I believe is happening). In the first case, the bug will get fixed eventually. In the second case, it will never will get fixed, because the new libraries don't have the same features/bugs/APIs. And that's a _big difference_ right there.

Edited 2011-02-17 06:51 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Bug.
by erak on Thu 17th Feb 2011 10:50 UTC in reply to "RE: Bug."
erak Member since:
2006-09-24

I posted a link to the article at:

http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

Reply Score: 1

If this happened to me...
by spudley99 on Thu 17th Feb 2011 09:02 UTC
spudley99
Member since:
2009-03-25

I don't have any IOS devices, but if this had happened to me, I think my reaction would be to learn from my mistake, and not buy another one.

Reply Score: 4

What I think Apple did wrong...
by Paradroid on Thu 17th Feb 2011 09:28 UTC
Paradroid
Member since:
2010-01-05

They should never have released iOS4 for the 3G iPhone. It was a complete mess. I had to uninstall it off my phone because it ran like treacle.

But by making it available developers came to the conclusion that they only need to bother supporting iOS4, because on the iPhone side the only phone that couldn't run it was the original 2G iPhone.

Some really simple apps in the App Store that don't need iOS4 specific features are still marked as requiring iOS4, making it unavailable to users who iOS4 is not available for - or users who cannot run it for performance reasons.

Reply Score: 2

RE: What I think Apple did wrong...
by t3RRa on Thu 17th Feb 2011 10:06 UTC in reply to "What I think Apple did wrong..."
t3RRa Member since:
2005-11-22

I somewhat like iOS 4 on my iPod Touch 2G. When it was jailbroken on earlier iOS 4 was real slow and battery hungry, but without it my iPod Touch runs quite well on the latest iOS 4.

Reply Score: 1

Euh
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 17th Feb 2011 09:30 UTC
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Surely, you jest. Apple fans always tell me how there's NO fragmentation among iOS devices! They can't all be wrong, right?

Reply Score: 6

v RE: Euh
by t3RRa on Thu 17th Feb 2011 10:08 UTC in reply to "Euh"
RE: Euh
by r_a_trip on Thu 17th Feb 2011 14:42 UTC in reply to "Euh"
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

Of course NOT! An iOS device is what Apple happens to sell in the stores now. The rest is just landfill. ;)

Reply Score: 2

SteveB
Member since:
2005-07-10

I understand your outrage and I would act the same way as you IF I would be an owner of an iOS device. But I am not an owner of an iOS device and am not planing to be one.

For me it is very clear that if you buy and use an iOS device then you are giving away the control of that device to Apple. Off course you can jail break it and do fancy stuff but if you stay away from those things then one thing is crystal clear to me: You are just an user of a device that you have paid but in reality you don't really own it.

This has benefits for you as an user (for example: Apple keeps care of the quality of applications in their app store, etc) but it has an negative aspect too (depend how much weight you give to the other side).

And IMHO you are now hitting that negative side and you are not happy with it.

The example you have made with the Mac from Year 2003 is IMHO not valid since on that Mac you are the one controlling what to install and what not to install. And if you want, you can wipe the whole OS from that 2003 hardware and install Linux, BSD or any other OS that support your arch/CPU.

This is fundamentally different than with an iOS device. There it's not you that is in control of the device. It's some one else. You are just the user (with some freedom to install additional apps or remove apps but in no way do you have the same freedom as you have on your Year 2003 system).

Anyway... what I want to say is that I understand your outrage but on the same time I don't have an understanding for your outrage because it is an iOS device.

I have used iOS/Mac OS X in the past and you don't need to be a rocket science to know that there is an "Apple way" and that YOU as an user have to adapt to that "Apple way" and not the other way around. Often you get used to that "Apple way" and you have a benefit from that "Apple way" and from the strong leader (Apple). But there are times where things don't go the way you would love them to go. But you can't praise that strong leadership/control of Apple and then again swearing on that strong leadership/control.

Sorry if this sounds like Apple bashing. It's not. I don't hate Apple nor do I wish them anything bad nor do I have anything against Apple users, etc...

Usually I would not respond to such messages and especially not to one made by Eugenia (you often have IMHO a strong point and there is no room for argumentation because you just hit the nail on the head) but this time I had to. It puzzles me that you are so much surprised about the whole issue. It's an iOS device and a device that is made to be connected to the net and it's an device controlled by Apple. That automatic and forced mechanism of pushing applications or OS updates is one of the strong points of that device. And you knew that in advance. And you knew in advance that you don't have 100% full control of that pushing mechanism. So why do you now act so surprised? You have been in here (on OSnews) for so long and you for sure know that no vendor is 100% error free. So why does it surprise you that Apple has made such a bad update?

Reply Score: 4

Thou shalt not repair ...
by Skai on Thu 17th Feb 2011 16:06 UTC
Skai
Member since:
2010-08-19

... what is not broken.

Reply Score: 1

Poseidon
Member since:
2009-10-31

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fP76_F2pJXbygX9Dqpzerhybc6lgd_...

So, in my iTunes, not only most applications get to keep their older versions in the app folder, the ones that do not can be quickly retrieved from the recycle bin, at least in Windows 7. All you need to do is remove the latest version from the app folder, restore the old version (if it is in the recycle bin) and there you have it, back like magic.

I'm not saying it is fine for apple to push updates that will make apps useless, but I am surprised the engineers don't even suggest this fix

Reply Score: 1

polaris20
Member since:
2005-07-06

is sensationalistic BS. The next brick? Really? That's amusing, because it's not in any way bricked. It is fully useful. I've got 11 apps currently sitting in my update cue, and they ALL support v.3.0.x.

If, in the case where it doesn't work, remove the app, and put the old version back. You do make backups, right?

If it does indeed "brick" the device (this doesn't really happen anyway) then reset it, reload it from backup (which happens every time you sync the device), and be happy with a functioning device.

There's no bricking here. Stop being sensationalistic, lest it appears you're trying to get click revenue.

1st gen iPod touches are still very much vital devices, and more useful than they were when they first come out. While the update model needs to be fixed, that's not a glaring, massive issue in need of an article.

"Well, it might be safe to say that Apple's own engineers stopped testing their Apple apps with 3.x iOS devices"

Really? And what other apps did you test from Apple that were cleared to work on 3.1.3, but did not work? What other apps from other vendors that were cleared to work on 3.1.3 don't work?

I need to call my dad. He's got a gen 1 too, and apparently he's not actually using all those apps he's using. Must be his imagination. He actually owns a brick.

Edited 2011-02-17 23:01 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by DavidSan
by DavidSan on Thu 17th Feb 2011 23:16 UTC
DavidSan
Member since:
2008-11-18

I have tested the issue and the "App Store" works fine when it is used with iTunes on the computer. It does not install the App if the device is not compatible.

The issue, I believe is related to the programming environment. New versions of XCode do not check compatibility with older devices automatically. The developer needs to keep two versions of the Xcode, one to test 3.1.2 compatibility and another one to develop for iOS 4 and up.

The new XCode can set the minimum target for 3.1.2 but it does not do anything to check if the code is compatible with 3.1.2.

Edited 2011-02-17 23:18 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by DavidSan
by daveak on Fri 18th Feb 2011 18:50 UTC in reply to "Comment by DavidSan"
daveak Member since:
2008-12-29

That is all just about compilation which doesn't really check if things work, just that the API you are using is available on that older version. To check properly you have to test on actual hardware. There is however nothing stopping building against 4.2, yet having the minimum target set to 3.0, which is an option and then just installing on a 3.x device and testing. 3.0 may be the lowest version that can be targeted now though.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by t3RRa
by t3RRa on Fri 18th Feb 2011 03:22 UTC
t3RRa
Member since:
2005-11-22

What I really do not get is the reaction to the situation, such could happen quite often on any platform and for such big companies updates could take quite long to come out. Happened to Microsoft and all but only to Apple. Human can make mistakes. So do you mean you do not make any mistakes at all? Gosh... and OSNews becoming MS fanboy blog website. If I say 'you are MS fan' to someone calling others 'Apple fan', my comment is voted down.. Crap..

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by t3RRa
by TheGZeus on Fri 18th Feb 2011 04:07 UTC in reply to "Comment by t3RRa"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Wat?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by t3RRa
by elsewhere on Fri 18th Feb 2011 06:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by t3RRa"
elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

Wat?


^^ ditto... OP's comment does not compute.

Reply Score: 2

Best User Experience
by phoudoin on Fri 18th Feb 2011 12:26 UTC
phoudoin
Member since:
2006-06-09

Apple forecasts that users will want to brick their iDevices and, so, decides pro-actively to give their customers the best user experience for that too.

Seems the switch from "What Do You Want To Do Today?" to "We Knows What You Want To Do Today!" is not that much better, after all.

Reply Score: 2

iBrick
by phoudoin on Fri 18th Feb 2011 12:34 UTC
phoudoin
Member since:
2006-06-09

Rock solid device, by Apple.

Reply Score: 2

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by hehe93 on Mon 21st Feb 2011 13:51 UTC
hehe93
Member since:
2011-02-21

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Reply Score: 1