Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 12th Apr 2011 22:27 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless The long-rumoured Symbian update, called Anna, has finally been made official by Nokia today, bringing with it a new browser, new icons, an on-screen portrait qwerty keyboard, and more. The Finnish Windows Phone OEM (sorry) also launched two new Symbian phones today.
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by puelocesar on Tue 12th Apr 2011 23:21 UTC
on display until..
by fran on Wed 13th Apr 2011 00:31 UTC
fran
Member since:
2010-08-06

Putting the finishing touches on a now beautiful painting.
Then putting it in a vault.
Wonder how the developers must have felt working on this.

Reply Score: 3

RE: on display until..
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 13th Apr 2011 02:41 UTC in reply to "on display until.."
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

The phrase "lipstick on a pig" came to my mind first...

Maybe a bit unfair, they've been hard at work doing a lot of deep surgery in the OS. So maybe its like lipstick on a 6 million dollar pig-man? If you'll excuse the seinfieldian twist to the meme.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: on display until..
by Neolander on Wed 13th Apr 2011 07:29 UTC in reply to "RE: on display until.."
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

You're being a bit unfair. Symbian has got some wondrous structure on the inside, especially for an embedded OS. It's just too bad that until recently they neglected the exterior side of things (GUI, SDK) so much, especially by releasing a touchscreen edition whose GUI was not yet ready.

And now they're ditching it for something which can't run on slow or touchscreenless hardware, slaughters battery life, but doesn't have a pretty bad reputation on its back... Cowards.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: on display until..
by pandronic on Wed 13th Apr 2011 08:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: on display until.."
pandronic Member since:
2006-05-18

Cowards.


I'd say just the opposite ... their courage borders insanity.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: on display until..
by kaiwai on Wed 13th Apr 2011 11:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: on display until.."
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

You're being a bit unfair. Symbian has got some wondrous structure on the inside, especially for an embedded OS. It's just too bad that until recently they neglected the exterior side of things (GUI, SDK) so much, especially by releasing a touchscreen edition whose GUI was not yet ready.

And now they're ditching it for something which can't run on slow or touchscreenless hardware, slaughters battery life, but doesn't have a pretty bad reputation on its back... Cowards.


Umm, based on what evidence? so far I've seen, apart form the usual suspects, the WP7 has been performing pretty damn well from a company who pretty much more or less dived out of the market almost 5 years ago. There are a whole host of reasons for why WP7 haven't demolished iOS in 6 months and these are obvious to anyone who actually has tracked the market and carrier activity. Hate WP7 all you want but with Nokia's reach and Microsoft's software you're going to see Nokia pull themselves ahead in the long term.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: on display until..
by Laurence on Wed 13th Apr 2011 12:10 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: on display until.."
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Hate WP7 all you want but with Nokia's reach and Microsoft's software you're going to see Nokia pull themselves ahead in the long term.

You have that backwards. WP7 will pull Nokia ahead in the short term, but isn't a good long term strategy.

The reason I suggest this is because without offering a unique experience, Nokia will quickly become "just another phone OEM" and thus indistinguishable from the pack.

One of the reasons the iPhone sells so well is because it's the only phone that offers iOS. Thus it's not in direct competition with any other iOS handsets. Apple are well aware that good products sell well, but good and exclusive products will sell better. Same goes for Blackberry - their OS may have it's (many) shortcomings and thus their market position maybe falling, but it's wager they'd be losing market share more rapidly had they ditched Blackberry OS in favour for Android (ok, I admit this last example is highly speculative).

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: on display until..
by kaiwai on Wed 13th Apr 2011 12:31 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: on display until.."
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

And creating a whole new operating system thus creating fracturing in an already fractured market really going to help them in the long term? There is iOS, Android, WP7, BlackBerry and WebOS - do you really believe that the market can sustain yet another operating system and then on top of that Nokia creating a vibrant third party ecosystem with the same level of depth and breadth whilst providing top of the line development tools to win over developers?

If you're going to talk about OEM's, it seems that HTC isn't going too badly being an OEM for Android and WP7 for example. LG seems to be going fairly well with their WP7 handsets that they're selling too.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: on display until..
by Laurence on Wed 13th Apr 2011 13:21 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: on display until.."
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

And creating a whole new operating system thus creating fracturing in an already fractured market really going to help them in the long term? There is iOS, Android, WP7, BlackBerry and WebOS - do you really believe that the market can sustain yet another operating system and then on top of that Nokia creating a vibrant third party ecosystem with the same level of depth and breadth whilst providing top of the line development tools to win over developers?

...?
You do realise that -bar Blackberry OS- Symbian has been around a great deal longer than all of them and that until recently, Symbian was still the most widely used smartphone OS?

Symbian isn't something new or niche. We're talking about one of the last original heavyweights here.

If you're going to talk about OEM's, it seems that HTC isn't going too badly being an OEM for Android and WP7 for example. LG seems to be going fairly well with their WP7 handsets that they're selling too.

That's exactly the problem though. There are already 2 or 3 OEMs leading the Android and WP7 field and all the other OEMs are virtually nonexistent - or at least here in the UK. Even Motorola and Sony Ericsson have fallen out of favour here. Yet Blackberry -with an arguably worse OS- is still outselling Motorola, Sony Ericsson and even LG. Now why do you think that is if the smart phone market can't sustain the number of mobile OSs on offer?

Plus why should Nokia even settle for being just as good as HTC? They were kings. Being an OEM will only ever make them just as good as the next best OEM - which is only a fraction as good as they could be if they own the whole layer and do it well.

Reply Score: 5

RE[7]: on display until..
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 13th Apr 2011 13:27 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: on display until.."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Plus why should Nokia even settle for being just as good as HTC? They were kings. Being an OEM will only ever make them just as good as the next best OEM - which is only a fraction as good as they could be if they own the whole layer and do it well.


The only reason Symbian sold so well was because it did not face any competition. Symbian has NEVER been a good smartphone operating system, despite what everybody's been saying. Windows Mobile was better, PalmOS was better - iOS is better, Android is better, WP7 is better, and WebOS is better.

Symbian is being slaughtered, and rightfully so, because it is simply not fit for the task. Despite years of development, despite years of Nokia throwing money at it, it STILL DOES NOT COMPARE. How many more years must Nokia throw money at this trainwreck before people like you finally accept it's simply not budging?

The drop in market share for Symbian is staggering, and the rise of Android and iOS is unheard of compared to just about any other technology market. This is not a coincidence - it's a sign that people do not like Symbian.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: on display until..
by Neolander on Wed 13th Apr 2011 13:03 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: on display until.."
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

I don't hate WP7. As an iOS competitor, targeting internet-centric phones with a large touchscreen, a small battery life, and limited programmability to toy with, it does its job reasonably well as far as I've tested.

However, I hate Nokia for *solely* choosing the WP7 path, and taking an active and major part in the death of diversity in the mobile phone industry.

Nokia used to be a brand where no matter what you were asking from your phone, as long as it didn't include a touchscreen, you would find it. But now, in a pure WP7 future, they're becoming yet another OEM manufacturing legions of lookalike 3.7" touchscreen slabs differing only by their version number, their internal storage capacity, and the number of megapixels from their camera. And although I'm perfectly fine with that happening on laptops, I find it really sad on phones, because for such small form factors, I think that generic hardware is a massive failure. But well... The market has chosen, hasn't it ?

Edited 2011-04-13 13:06 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: on display until..
by _Nine_ on Wed 13th Apr 2011 16:47 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: on display until.."
_Nine_ Member since:
2010-10-13

I agree. People thought that Android's "opennness" and OEM ecosystem would result in more device diversity. Instead, all we see is a new black-slab, all-touchscreen phone every other week with the only difference being the iterative improvements you mentioned. While it's nice to see new devices to some extent, I actually think it waters down the platform as a whole. With iPhones and Blackberries (to a slightly lesser extent), at least you know that if you buy a phone today, it will be a relevant model for at least several months, if not longer.

I don't think the market has necessarily chosen... I just think the OEMs assume that iPhone look-alikes are what most people want, and while that might have been the case 3 years ago, I think some of the iPhone lust has settled down, and people realized the need for different form-factors catering to different needs, such as physical keyboards, long battery life, etc. However, we're limited in the options to choose from just like before the iPhone.

I actually was happy to hear about MS/Nokia deal as it I think it might help lift WP7 out of the "me-too" land that Android phones seem to be in.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: on display until..
by vodoomoth on Thu 14th Apr 2011 11:33 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: on display until.."
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

I don't think the market has necessarily chosen... I just think the OEMs assume that iPhone look-alikes are what most people want

Exactly what I've noticed in the browser world with other browsers copying Chrome (which I don't use).

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: on display until..
by VZsolt on Wed 13th Apr 2011 15:38 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: on display until.."
VZsolt Member since:
2008-10-31

Symbian has got some wondrous structure on the inside, especially for an embedded OS.


May I ask what on Earth you are talking about?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: on display until..
by Neolander on Wed 13th Apr 2011 17:57 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: on display until.."
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

"Symbian has got some wondrous structure on the inside, especially for an embedded OS."

May I ask what on Earth you are talking about?

A microkernel structure, with a client-server model and a capability-based security, all that implemented using mainly a high-level language, and it still manages to roll over most other modern mobile OS kernels in terms of computational power it needs and energy it consumes, and to achieve good responsiveness to network events...

That's a pretty unusual combination in the embedded world. Even in the desktop world, we are still mainly stuck with monolithic kernels and user-based security, even though SElinux and the modularization of the NT kernel are steps in the right direction.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: on display until..
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 13th Apr 2011 18:22 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: on display until.."
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Yeah, thats sort of what I meant by my post. Its ugly on the outside. Sorry for the late night lack of articulation.

Really, lipstick on a corpse is the more appropriate phrase. As beautiful as symbian may have been at one time in its era: its dying out.

Reply Score: 2

RE: on display until..
by vivainio on Wed 13th Apr 2011 06:36 UTC in reply to "on display until.."
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Putting the finishing touches on a now beautiful painting.
Then putting it in a vault.


Symbian is not going to a vault any time soon. There will be a series on new (more radical) updates, and series of new, much more powerful devices coming up to run this software.

That said, Symbian was always "going away". Before feb11 it was going away to make space for MeeGo.

Reply Score: 3

wow
by broken_symlink on Wed 13th Apr 2011 02:22 UTC
broken_symlink
Member since:
2005-07-06

I think I might actually get an E7 now if the price comes down a little.

Reply Score: 2

Symbian hate
by spiderman on Wed 13th Apr 2011 06:06 UTC
spiderman
Member since:
2008-10-23

So they have addressed the critics. The GUI is now on par with Android. Still, there will be irrational people who will trash it. There is a lot of hate that I can not explain. A lot of people seem to want Symbian to suck for no real reason. Or maybe this is because of memory. Their mind is stuck in 2005 and they base their opinion on what Symbian was in 2005.
I believe Symbian is the best smartphone OS, even before this update.

Edited 2011-04-13 06:07 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: Symbian hate
by Radio on Wed 13th Apr 2011 11:33 UTC in reply to "Symbian hate"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

I'd put WebOS first, Symbian second.

Reply Score: 2

Sad
by 3rdalbum on Wed 13th Apr 2011 13:27 UTC
3rdalbum
Member since:
2008-05-26

It's sad to see Symbian go away with the WP7 deal.

My old Nokia E63 was a really nice phone to use. Theoretically my HTC Desire should poo all over it, but there are days when I wish I still had a physical keyboard, a consistent strong signal (I'm still on the same network, BTW), good call quality and a battery that will last days. The Nokia N8 appeals to me too because it's got a decent camera and a proper flash.

But I heard that WP7 doesn't support physical keyboards. The hefty processor requirements of WP7 will impact on signal strength and battery life. And I don't like the WP7 interface - I think the UI on the E63 is more attractive, and that's really saying something. The E63's home screen is more useful too.

So, either it's a Blackberry, or find an Android phone that's Telstra Blue-Tick (for exceptional signal quality), has a physical keyboard, a massive battery and (preferably) a camera with a real flash. And a better speaker than the Desire.

I'm hoping that Nokia continues to develop low-end smartphones based on Symbian, but I think Microsoft might put the kibosh on that.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Sad
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 13th Apr 2011 13:33 UTC in reply to "Sad"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

But I heard that WP7 doesn't support physical keyboards.


You heard wrong. There are several WP7 phones with physical keyboards.

Edited 2011-04-13 13:33 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Sad
by 3rdalbum on Wed 13th Apr 2011 14:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Sad"
3rdalbum Member since:
2008-05-26

"But I heard that WP7 doesn't support physical keyboards.


You heard wrong. There are several WP7 phones with physical keyboards.
"

I'm pretty sure someone said that WP7 didn't support physical keyboards, but then I thought I remembered seeing one with a keyboard. Thanks for the correction.

Someone earlier said that Windows Mobile was better than Symbian. Definitely not the case. My mother's got a WM6.5 phone and it's really pretty terrible; the UI stops working properly, or the phone freezes up entirely every couple of weeks. The included programs are pretty awful too. Apparently most people who buy this phone do so because there are a lot of people selling it (cheap, to get rid of it), and you can put Android on it. Cheap Android phone with good hardware.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Sad
by broken_symlink on Wed 13th Apr 2011 14:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sad"
broken_symlink Member since:
2005-07-06

I also don't agree that palmos was better than symbian. palmos on the treo 650 was horrible. Both of my parents had multiple treos and they suffered from constant freezes, dropped calls, poor battery life, and towards the end even random reboots. The app quality was very low, and stability horrible. S60 was much better.

Reply Score: 2

Long Live Symbian!
by mfaudzinr on Wed 13th Apr 2011 18:44 UTC
mfaudzinr
Member since:
2008-02-13

I do wish that Symbian is not shelved for WP7. I like diversity and I do think that Symbian is still viable. Though weird as it may sound after the first statement - when Nokia finally releases a WP7 phone I do want one. I actually want to see a Symbian^4 and MeeGo phones but alas that is not to be.

Edited 2011-04-13 18:47 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Long Live Symbian!
by vivainio on Wed 13th Apr 2011 21:38 UTC in reply to "Long Live Symbian!"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

I actually want to see a Symbian^4 and MeeGo phones but alas that is not to be.


If you accept Harmattan for MeeGo, Nokia will most definitely release at least one Harmattan phone. This has been repeatedly confirmed by Nokia senior management.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Long Live Symbian!
by Kishe on Wed 13th Apr 2011 22:08 UTC in reply to "Long Live Symbian!"
Kishe Member since:
2006-02-16

Their N900 successor will have Meego and their bargain-price phones will keep Symbian 3 for several years.

Reply Score: 2

CEO vs Execs. Fight !!!
by lucifer on Thu 14th Apr 2011 02:59 UTC
lucifer
Member since:
2006-08-20

it seem the new nokia ceo and his execs are having some conflicting view on the company's future direction. i would expect some resignation announcement from nokia soon.

Reply Score: 1

It looks good to me.
by 2501 on Thu 14th Apr 2011 22:25 UTC
2501
Member since:
2005-07-14

It looks good to me. I am pretty sure that you can browse the internet and send sms messages. What else do you want? A super computer to call Mom?
-t

Reply Score: 1