Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 6th May 2011 22:41 UTC
Games "It all began when a young man named George Hotz began to work on the PlayStation 3, trying to gain access to the machine in a way that made Sony uncomfortable. In response, Sony removed the OtherOS functionality of the PlayStation 3 in a mandatory update, and the hacking community was not happy with this decision, resulting in a sort of cold war. PS3 hackers have once again gained the upper hand: Linux has been returned to the PlayStation 3."
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Wonderfully useless
by Ventajou on Fri 6th May 2011 23:31 UTC
Ventajou
Member since:
2006-10-31

I used to think those console hacks were great but when we come down to it, it's really just hacking for the sake of hacking. I mean, who will jump through all the hoops just to run linux on a PS3 as their everyday box?

With the variety that today's PCs offer in performance and form factor, it's become so easy to find something that fits one's needs. It's also easier to get drivers for such hardware and get on with your productive day.

I guess putting linux on the PS3 is like climbing a high mountain. You put a lot of effort into it and you're really happy once you're on top but then all you can do is sit for a minute, take a picture and come back down.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Wonderfully uninformed
by Nth_Man on Sat 7th May 2011 00:01 UTC in reply to "Wonderfully useless"
Nth_Man Member since:
2010-05-16

I used to think those console hacks were great but when we come down to it, it's really just hacking for the sake of hacking.

As it was already written:
Cell is still one of the cheapest multicore processors around, and an even better deal when you consider that it also comes with a bluray player.

You show me where I can buy an eight core computer with a bluray player for under $500.

And see what US Air Force do, for example:
http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercompute...
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/345642/Air_Force_Taps_PlaySt...
http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&q=us%20air%20force%20...

Reply Score: 8

RE[2]: Wonderfully uninformed
by WorknMan on Sat 7th May 2011 00:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Wonderfully uninformed"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

You show me where I can buy an eight core computer with a bluray player for under $500.


Not to mention an HDMI port, a GPU you can actually play modern games on, and a form factor that fits nicely in an entertainment center.

Note: This is not a rhetorical question. I would love to get a PS3, but I don't want to jump through hoops to fully unlock it. But if I could get a real HTPC with comparable specs for about the same price, I would.

Edited 2011-05-07 00:20 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Wonderfully uninformed
by moondevil on Sat 7th May 2011 01:45 UTC in reply to "RE: Wonderfully uninformed"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Nowadays the cell is easily beaten by a modest GPU using CUDA, STREAM or OpenCL.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Wonderfully uninformed
by Nth_Man on Sat 7th May 2011 06:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wonderfully uninformed"
Nth_Man Member since:
2010-05-16

Nowadays the cell is easily beaten by a modest GPU using CUDA, STREAM or OpenCL.

If you read the given links, you'll see what the US Air Force has done.


Easily beaten by a modest GPU

So we have to choose between those two possibilities:
- The US Air Force is not well informed.
- An internet commenter is not well informed.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Wonderfully uninformed
by tylerdurden on Sat 7th May 2011 08:33 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wonderfully uninformed"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

That is actually a false dichotomy, and both of the elements in the dichotomy are fallacies themselves.

A fallacy inside of a fallacy, inception!

Reply Score: 5

RE[5]: Wonderfully uninformed
by Nth_Man on Sat 7th May 2011 09:26 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Wonderfully uninformed"
Nth_Man Member since:
2010-05-16

That post is so full of mistakes that is beyond all recovery.

Basically what was previously said is that: US Air Force calculated the options and saw that the "Nowadays the cell is easily beaten by a modest GPU using CUDA, STREAM or OpenCL" was not true.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Wonderfully uninformed
by tylerdurden on Sat 7th May 2011 21:35 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Wonderfully uninformed"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Bam! Another fallacy, yer on a roll...

If there were so many mistakes it would have been very easy to start.

IBM and other 3rd party vendors have provided plenty of BLADE PCI-E and Blade add ons which allow CELL programmability much easier (and legally). Also if cost was a concern for the US Air force, newer GPUs do provide much higher computational density at similar price points.

So yeah, it could very well be that the US Air Force does not know what they are talking about, and that the previous poster was in fact, correct. For example.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Wonderfully uninformed
by MamiyaOtaru on Mon 9th May 2011 15:31 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Wonderfully uninformed"
MamiyaOtaru Member since:
2005-11-11

they calculated those options years ago. there would be a different outcome today. Or do you think nothing has changed in the intervening years?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Wonderfully uninformed
by danieldk on Sat 7th May 2011 15:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wonderfully uninformed"
danieldk Member since:
2005-11-18

Or... such purchasing decisions were made years ago when the Playstation still had the lead.

Anyway, the Playstation Cell processor achieves 230 GFLOPS single precision. An entry-level nVidia GPU such as the Geforce GT 440 (~80 Euros) achieves 342 GFLOPS single precision. More expensive cards and Tesla stream do above 1 TFlop. Also, modern GPUs have a lot more memory available, which is nice, because it allows for larger working sets and copying data from main memory to the GPU memory is expensive..

Also take into account that generally everyone agrees that CUDA is much more fun to program than for Cell, and that modern off-the-shelf Intel CPUs have 2-4 cores (compared to PS3's single core PowerPC CPU), x86 hardware is suddenly far more interesting these days than the Playstation 3.

But after all, we are comparing 2006 hardware to 2011 hardware.

Edited 2011-05-07 15:42 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Wonderfully uninformed
by Nth_Man on Sat 7th May 2011 16:23 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Wonderfully uninformed"
Nth_Man Member since:
2010-05-16

If somebody reads the given links, he'll see that, for example, those news about the new supercomputer are from November and December of the last year.

Edited 2011-05-07 16:24 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Yes, they'd also discover that the project was started in 2006. That is when the decision was made, not 2011.

The Condor Cluster project began four years ago, when PlayStation consoles cost about $400 each. At the same time, comparable technology would have cost about $10,000 per unit.


Its like when Apple switched to intel, everyone brought up the Virginia state super computer as evidence that PPC was faster and cheaper. Technology... changes quickly. You can't base a decision today on a four year old assessment.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Wonderfully uninformed
by Nth_Man on Sat 7th May 2011 18:00 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Wonderfully uninformed"
Nth_Man Member since:
2010-05-16

Its like when Apple switched to intel

Or maybe it's not like this. Maybe the quoted supercomputer is just better built this way. Maybe the US Air Force builds supercomputers better than some people that have never built one. :-?

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Wonderfully uninformed
by -ajp- on Sun 8th May 2011 11:56 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Wonderfully uninformed"
-ajp- Member since:
2010-02-04

Stupid double post. (why is there no delete here?)

Edited 2011-05-08 11:57 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Wonderfully uninformed
by libray on Mon 9th May 2011 17:41 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Wonderfully uninformed"
libray Member since:
2005-08-27

The military does not move at the speed of light. It is at the best interest of a company to sell any branch of the military a stock of systems and shoehorn them into support contracts. I have under good authority that the Army Corps of Engineers still has DEC/Compaq/HP Alpha systems clustered running VMS.

Edited 2011-05-09 17:46 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Wonderfully useless
by umccullough on Sat 7th May 2011 00:09 UTC in reply to "Wonderfully useless"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

I guess putting linux on the PS3 is like climbing a high mountain. You put a lot of effort into it and you're really happy once you're on top but then all you can do is sit for a minute, take a picture and come back down.


And then you can download homebrew games, emulators, etc. and actually *use* the hardware you bought for lots of other things that Sony didn't let you do to begin with.

My mod'd original XBOX can do all sorts of neat-o things, including play a DVD, watch countless videos and listen to my entire music collection off the NAS in my office. It also happens to emulate just about any retro console I would want it to.

Edit: Oh, and the console was free, modchip was < $50

Edited 2011-05-07 00:12 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: Wonderfully useless
by Lennie on Sat 7th May 2011 00:59 UTC in reply to "Wonderfully useless"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

I think security research is important, like when they attacked the MD5-hash of a SSL/TLS Certificate Authority Root Certificate and created a rogue certificate:

http://lwn.net/Articles/314997/

Reply Score: 3

RE: Wonderfully useless
by Morgan on Sat 7th May 2011 04:59 UTC in reply to "Wonderfully useless"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I used to think those console hacks were great but when we come down to it, it's really just hacking for the sake of hacking.


And there you have it. Some folks simply enjoy the journey more than the destination, and there's nothing at all wrong with that. :-)

Reply Score: 8

RE: Wonderfully useless
by Laurence on Sat 7th May 2011 12:46 UTC in reply to "Wonderfully useless"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

I used to think those console hacks were great but when we come down to it, it's really just hacking for the sake of hacking. I mean, who will jump through all the hoops just to run linux on a PS3 as their everyday box?

With the variety that today's PCs offer in performance and form factor, it's become so easy to find something that fits one's needs. It's also easier to get drivers for such hardware and get on with your productive day.

I guess putting linux on the PS3 is like climbing a high mountain. You put a lot of effort into it and you're really happy once you're on top but then all you can do is sit for a minute, take a picture and come back down.


If this was a new console that was hacked, then I might agree with you that it's a largely pointless exercises that's engaged for purely hobbiest (is that a word?) reasons.

However the PS3 did previously support Linux and Sony forcefully removed that feature post sale. So in reality all these hackers are do is returned advertised features to a devices that a purchased with it.

It really is a sad state of affairs when you have to hack a device just to retain functionality, let alone enhance it.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Wonderfully useless
by WereCatf on Sat 7th May 2011 13:45 UTC in reply to "RE: Wonderfully useless"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

hobbiest (is that a word?)


No, and the correct word you're looking for is "hobbyist", just so you know in the future ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Wonderfully useless
by Laurence on Sun 8th May 2011 12:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wonderfully useless"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

"hobbiest (is that a word?)


No, and the correct word you're looking for is "hobbyist", just so you know in the future ;)
"


Thank you ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Wonderfully useless
by viton on Sat 7th May 2011 21:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Wonderfully useless"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

in reality all these hackers are do is returned advertised features to a devices that a purchased with it.

OtherOS was not an advertised feature of PS3 Slim.

Edited 2011-05-07 21:39 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Wonderfully useless
by umccullough on Sun 8th May 2011 00:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wonderfully useless"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

OtherOS was not an advertised feature of PS3 Slim.


Nope, but the side-effect of returning OtherOS to the PS3 Fat is that it also happens to work on the Slim - which people figured it would, and Sony just didn't want to support it any more (they're notorious for removing features in subsequent revisions of their consoles, unlike most others).

Really too bad too - since the slim uses less power, and would make all those PS3 clusters even more efficient.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Wonderfully useless
by Lorin on Sun 8th May 2011 03:21 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Wonderfully useless"
Lorin Member since:
2010-04-06

Yes it was, not only was it written on my box, it was written in the users manual. I kept all of it as evidence.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Wonderfully useless
by Alfman on Sat 7th May 2011 20:15 UTC in reply to "Wonderfully useless"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

Ventajou,

It may be useless to you, but so what? Instead of building a large server out of bulky consumer components, we can re-provision something which is compact and more suitable.

If people can benefit from homebrew software when devices aren't locked down by the manufacturer, who are you to tell them it's useless?

Hacks can extend the functionality, productivity, and lifetime of devices. Consider how much interest there is in custom firmwares for routers and nas devices.

Reply Score: 4

NAND flash?
by metalf8801 on Sat 7th May 2011 02:26 UTC
metalf8801
Member since:
2010-03-22

Does anyone know which PS3 models have NAND flash? I've been looking on google, but I haven't found anything.

Reply Score: 1

RE: NAND flash?
by -ajp- on Sun 8th May 2011 11:55 UTC in reply to "NAND flash? "
-ajp- Member since:
2010-02-04

http://www.ps3hax.net/showthread.php?p=197685#post197685

The ones with 256 MB are NAND machines

Reply Score: 2