Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 8th Jan 2013 23:45 UTC
Games The Verge got to interview Valve's CEO, Gabe Newell, and the priceless quotes are just flying left and right. "We'll come out with our own and we'll sell it to consumers by ourselves. That'll be a Linux box, [and] if you want to install Windows you can. We're not going to make it hard. This is not some locked box by any stretch of the imagination." Others will be making Steambox devices too. Also: "Windows 8 was like this giant sadness. It just hurts everybody in the PC business. [...] When I started using it I was like 'oh my god...' I find [Windows 8] unusable." This last point is something I agree with vehemently. Can't comment on Windows 8 on tablets, but on regular PCs it's a schizophrenic, unusable clusterduck. It got me to switch back to Mac and use KDE (on my laptop). Let that sink in for a while.
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v Comment by Wafflez
by Wafflez on Wed 9th Jan 2013 00:43 UTC
WTF
by judgen on Wed 9th Jan 2013 01:36 UTC
judgen
Member since:
2006-07-12

Clusterduck???? WTF happaned? Not allowed to swear anymore? (clusterfuck is actrually not a swearword in english but a loan word from jutish that got transformed over time. Well , to be honest you could call it an invaseve word as the jutes invaded england together with the saxons and angels.)

Reply Score: 1

Duck yeah!
by tidux on Wed 9th Jan 2013 03:03 UTC
tidux
Member since:
2011-08-13

Year of the Linux Set-top!

Reply Score: 9

RE: Duck yeah!
by JAlexoid on Wed 9th Jan 2013 10:37 UTC in reply to "Duck yeah!"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

You're, like, 14 years too late.

Reply Score: 7

v Comment by benb320
by benb320 on Wed 9th Jan 2013 03:20 UTC
Oh bum!
by voncosel on Wed 9th Jan 2013 06:41 UTC
voncosel
Member since:
2013-01-09

It's "Gabe Newell"...

Reply Score: 1

@Thom W7
by pepa on Wed 9th Jan 2013 07:26 UTC
pepa
Member since:
2005-07-08

@Thom What happened to the wonderful Windows 7..?

Reply Score: 2

Comment
by pandronic on Wed 9th Jan 2013 08:03 UTC
pandronic
Member since:
2006-05-18

Windows 8 + Start8 is a pretty sweet setup. I never have to see the Metro part and the Desktop part works a little better than the already excellent Windows 7.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment
by kwan_e on Wed 9th Jan 2013 08:31 UTC in reply to "Comment"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

Windows 8 + Start8 is a pretty sweet setup. I never have to see the Metro part and the Desktop part works a little better than the already excellent Windows 7.


So you're saying you paid for two things just to get it a little better than one thing that is older than either of those two things?

Reply Score: 8

RE[2]: Comment
by Wafflez on Wed 9th Jan 2013 09:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment"
Wafflez Member since:
2011-06-26

So this is why Windows 8 is a failure? ;) Only because it's just slightly better than Windows 7?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment
by JAlexoid on Wed 9th Jan 2013 10:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

No, because you have to tweak it to be better on non-touchscreen devices. (The first thing I do when I log into Win8 is click "Desktop")

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment
by Nelson on Wed 9th Jan 2013 09:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I use Windows 8 without Start8 and don't have an issue.

Having Windows 8 on a tablet that lasts 10hours and can run legacy apps is pretty much everything I want in a device.

I'm sure others are happy too, I think there's a fair deal of myopia on OSNews about the target audience for Windows 8.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment
by JAlexoid on Wed 9th Jan 2013 10:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Modern UI was designed to be "touched"; and it works well there. When you're without a touchscreen however...

Though, desktop in Win8 seems to be a bit more consistent than Win7.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment
by Nelson on Wed 9th Jan 2013 17:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I think the criticism of it on a non-Touch device is severely overblown.

I dogfood Windows 8 full time on a developer machine, and as a developer, I can hardly think of any usecase that would require more productivity. I think it stresses it pretty well.

I just use the right tool for the job. For example, if I want a full screen browsing experience for content consumption, I'll dip into Metro IE.

If I need to view many tabs at a glance very quickly (say if I have 4-5 MSDN tabs open, a couple more tabs with some stats on app downloasds across WP/W8/PubCenter/AdMob/AdDuplex, and a couple instances of VS open) then I'll use Desktop IE.

Similarly if I'm doing hardcore file management I'll use explorer, but if I just want to browse for an image on my PC, or on SkyDrive or something I'll use the Search Charm with App Pickers.

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment
by JAlexoid on Thu 10th Jan 2013 01:53 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Problem is that Modern UI is supposed to be the main UI. It's overblown only if you look at criticism from that side. Mouse and keyboard use with Modern UI is a sub-par experience in general and very annoying in too many(read - enough to remember) user facing cases.

PS: Fullscreen IE is as Modern UI as the content you're consuming - it's not(even Microsoft's own site)

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment
by Nelson on Thu 10th Jan 2013 03:17 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Problem is that Modern UI is supposed to be the main UI. It's overblown only if you look at criticism from that side. Mouse and keyboard use with Modern UI is a sub-par experience in general and very annoying in too many(read - enough to remember) user facing cases.


Like I said, that may be your opinion, or your stick to beat Windows 8 with, but its certainly not my experience. I wouldn't be able to tolerate anything which impacted my productivity as a developer and I get along fine.

Obviously if you need functionality that exists outside of the new Metro bits, you are well within your rights to use the Classic Experience.

In the case of Visual Studio that's what I do. I'm sure I could find some Web Browser shell on the Windows Store that shows me tabs the way I want them, but I just haven't bothered.


PS: Fullscreen IE is as Modern UI as the content you're consuming - it's not(even Microsoft's own site)


Metro IE is easier for me to navigate when just doing content consumption. I have a Microsoft Touch Mouse which makes a lot of these gestures and esp. scrolling really easy for me to use.

I highly suggest it if your Windows 8 experience is as frustrating as you suggest.

Edited 2013-01-10 03:19 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Comment
by ssokolow on Thu 10th Jan 2013 05:31 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment"
ssokolow Member since:
2010-01-21

Metro IE is easier for me to navigate when just doing content consumption. I have a Microsoft Touch Mouse which makes a lot of these gestures and esp. scrolling really easy for me to use.

I highly suggest it if your Windows 8 experience is as frustrating as you suggest.


So you're saying we should spend our hard-earned money on new hardware from Microsoft just to make up for shortcomings in the new software we already paid for from Microsoft?

Thanks, but I think I'll just count my blessings that I switched to Linux for my day-to-day work near the end of the Windows XP era.

At least, this way, I can run a desktop environment that values consistency and getting work done over trying out every new, glitzy idea that pops into the developers' heads.

Edited 2013-01-10 05:33 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment
by Odisej on Wed 9th Jan 2013 12:30 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment"
Odisej Member since:
2006-05-11

Nelson, whenever I read your comment I get a feeling of you being some PR guy paid for participating in forums and answering criticism of any product by some major brand.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Comment
by lucas_maximus on Wed 9th Jan 2013 14:19 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Some of us just don't think the criticisms of Windows 8 on the desktop is that valid.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment
by Nelson on Wed 9th Jan 2013 17:30 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Nelson, whenever I read your comment I get a feeling of you being some PR guy paid for participating in forums and answering criticism of any product by some major brand.


Follow me on Twitter sometimes. Its not all roses when it comes to Microsoft and I criticize them, rather harshly at times.

There is just a tendency here on OSNews to argue the same things over and over, so you get thoughts of mine that haven't really changed because some people here are fixated on the same arguments.

Reply Score: 3

Enough win8 bashing...
by madezaen on Wed 9th Jan 2013 13:18 UTC
madezaen
Member since:
2012-08-12

This Windows 8 bashing gets really boring... I Gabe Newell doesn't want to pay MS for his faux console - good for him, but it hardly makes him a reliable source on the quality of Win8.

Maybe, I don't know, just try using it for longer than one hour (or, in case of most people, AT ALL)? The start screen just needs getting used to, and after a day becomes really workable. Extra hint: keyboard shortcuts can be used instead of the weird mouse gestures. You should love it, *nixers ;) .

Plus, has anybody seen e.g. the new file copy dialog or the task manager? They are real, actual improvements over 7.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Enough win8 bashing...
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 9th Jan 2013 13:38 UTC in reply to "Enough win8 bashing..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Maybe, I don't know, just try using it for longer than one hour


How about for over a year? Is that enough?

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Enough win8 bashing...
by madezaen on Wed 9th Jan 2013 13:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Enough win8 bashing..."
madezaen Member since:
2012-08-12

I haven't used the previews/betas etc., so I can't really tell how much it has improved.

But all I can reply is: Yes, seems to be enough. Guess your mileage may vary, though I still don't get your hate for the OS. Don't like metro (I admit, it's hard to love it with so few decent apps) - don't use it. Treat the start screen as you would the start menu, and work mainly in desktop.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Enough win8 bashing...
by JAlexoid on Thu 10th Jan 2013 02:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Enough win8 bashing..."
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Don't like metro (I admit, it's hard to love it with so few decent apps) - don't use it.

But I like Modern UI. Just not when it comes to mouse and keyboard(with exceptions to "showcase" apps, like gallery)

Treat the start screen as you would the start menu, and work mainly in desktop.


It's exactly why Gabe is criticizing Win8.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Wed 9th Jan 2013 17:58 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

Okay, let's not get too sidetracked on Windows 8.

I'm suitably impressed by what Valve are doing here. I said in a previous article's comments about my scepticism of Valve's words about openness, of course words are nothing until the product ships but what they're doing here is definitely /different/

Here's what's not certain going forward to me:

* Linux. How will the Valve-approved SteamBox, running Linux, compete, with a vastly reduced software catalogue, compete against other 'SteamBox' vendors selling Windows devices with broader software support?

* Cost? This certainly looks high-end. If it's $1000 from one vendor, how much is it from Valve? This is a major purchase, and how much of the market is really affluent enough to drop a G on a gaming PC running Linux?

The OEM PC market right now is a disaster. I'm hoping that Valve's approach is right enough to revive things a bit. I would like nothing more than to see the decades old HP / Packard Bell / Acer / ... PC line up change into something actually new.

Reply Score: 4