Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 30th Jan 2015 21:04 UTC
Features, Office

The highlight of the new release is a far-reaching visual refresh, with menus, toolbars, status bars, and more being updated to look and work better. While LibreOffice retains the traditional menus-and-toolbars approach that Microsoft abandoned in Office 2007, the new version is meant to make those menus and toolbars easier to navigate.

What are the reasons to use either OpenOffice or LibeOffice?

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Comment by Nelson
by Nelson on Fri 30th Jan 2015 21:09 UTC
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

While it looks like a step in a right direction, there's much work to be done when compared to something like Pages on OSX.

A little color in the icons wouldn't hurt them. Monochromatic icons reminds me of what Visual Studio tried and was (rightfully) dinged for.

I hope they can find a creative way to make the UI more contextual so there isn't so much toolbar in my face. Even a search field to find common actions (Visual Studio has this for example). I guess I just dislike toolbars.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Nelson
by dpJudas on Fri 30th Jan 2015 22:30 UTC in reply to "Comment by Nelson"
dpJudas Member since:
2009-12-10

I hope they can find a creative way to make the UI more contextual so there isn't so much toolbar in my face. Even a search field to find common actions (Visual Studio has this for example). I guess I just dislike toolbars.

You are not the only one.

IMO toolbars only really work well for the few specific icons you know what are. On that screenshot there are so many icons I have no idea what will do. What am I supposed to do? Hover my cursor over each, one at a time, to try see what the tooltip says?

Discovery at an all time low.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Nelson
by nicubunu on Sat 31st Jan 2015 07:28 UTC in reply to "Comment by Nelson"
nicubunu Member since:
2014-01-08

I can't test since the update isn't available in the repo for my distro, they took away alternate icon sets and the ability to change them? In 4.3 you have a choice from 6 icon sets.

Reply Score: 2

free as in freedom
by fithisux on Fri 30th Jan 2015 21:18 UTC
fithisux
Member since:
2006-01-22

And free as in free beer. Sometime they should consider a rewrite in D or Rust. Vcl should become independent of openoffice

Reply Score: 2

Use Libre
by krakal on Fri 30th Jan 2015 21:18 UTC
krakal
Member since:
2015-01-03

Just use LibreOffice, IMO.

http://www.howtogeek.com/187663/openoffice-vs.-libreoffice-whats-th...

About licenses:

"In the long run, this means that big improvements to OpenOffice can be incorporated into LibreOffice, while big improvements to LibreOffice can’t be incorporated into OpenOffice. This clearly gives a big advantage to LibreOffice, which will develop quicker and incorporate more features and improvements."

Indeed.

Reply Score: 3

To answer Thom's question
by SitrucKram on Fri 30th Jan 2015 21:32 UTC
SitrucKram
Member since:
2013-12-02

The reason to use either Open Office or Libre Office is simple. It's a simple and free office suite that can replace a lot of the basic functions of what people would like out of a productivity suite. Spreadsheets, word processing, a basic database engine, presentations are all there. The downside to using something like this is that it's hard for a modern business to find value in it. Businesses are operating Sharepoint applications, sites, workflows, etc. Lync is a great conferencing tool. Office 2013 is pretty kick-ass, and very affordable. With Office365, you can have a pretty decent offsite Exchange environment for relatively no-cost.

Reply Score: 4

RE: To answer Thom's question
by SeanParsons on Fri 30th Jan 2015 22:34 UTC in reply to "To answer Thom's question"
SeanParsons Member since:
2011-01-11

I agree with your reasons to use LO and OOo. I also prefer that they don't use the 'ribbon', and as someone that writes a lot of equations, I really appreciate the dmaths extension.

Also as an avid Google Docs and Sheets user, I also appreciate that LO/OOo respect two-column formatting and that they can repeat headers on tables.

Reply Score: 1

RE: To answer Thom's question
by dpJudas on Fri 30th Jan 2015 22:36 UTC in reply to "To answer Thom's question"
dpJudas Member since:
2009-12-10

Lync is a great conferencing tool.

You must be using a different Lync than the one included in Office 365 ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: To answer Thom's question
by Boldie on Sun 1st Feb 2015 13:29 UTC in reply to "RE: To answer Thom's question"
Boldie Member since:
2007-03-26

I would not call Lync great, but it is not that bad. I use it every day and compared to almost all other Microsoft products its one I don't hate to use.

Reply Score: 3

Fixes
by Alfman on Fri 30th Jan 2015 22:01 UTC
Alfman
Member since:
2011-01-28

I've been using LibreOffice for a while now. I like it's interface better than MS Word (I strongly dislike the "ribbon", for me it hasn't grown better with age).

Since we're here, does anyone know a trick to insert space in between adjacent tables? I can't figure out how to get the cursor in between tables to do that.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Fixes
by SeanParsons on Fri 30th Jan 2015 22:29 UTC in reply to "Fixes"
SeanParsons Member since:
2011-01-11

You have a couple options:

1) Create two frames and insert tables
2) Make that section two-columns and use column breaks when inserting the tables.

Hope that helps.

Reply Score: 3

it does the job
by testadura on Fri 30th Jan 2015 22:25 UTC
testadura
Member since:
2006-04-14

Since I am not a power user of office tooling (thank god), I don't know how MS offices compares to LibreOffice. But LibreOffice suits my needs just fine! It is quick, stable and does its job. And most importantly: it doesn't force me to use a specific OS.

At work (where I am forced on windows) I'm having trouble using MS office. Especially due to the ribbon interface.

Reply Score: 1

No NSA Backdoors
by kragil on Fri 30th Jan 2015 22:31 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

They don't push you to use their 365 version which has even more spying build in.

Reply Score: 1

RE: No NSA Backdoors
by BluenoseJake on Sat 31st Jan 2015 20:34 UTC in reply to "No NSA Backdoors"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Not really. You don't need to store your files on Onedrive, so how would the NSA get to them? Google Docs would have the same issues.

Reply Score: 3

Retina display support, finally!
by Dave_K on Fri 30th Jan 2015 22:58 UTC
Dave_K
Member since:
2005-11-16

I've been using virtualised Office 2007 (even when I didn't need perfect MS Office compatibility) because the last few versions of LibreOffice I tried on my MacBook didn't support its retina display.

Without hi-DPI support the text quality looked terrible compared with any other software I was using. I wouldn't have been impressed if that still hadn't been fixed, so I'm glad that the toolbar isn't the only aesthetic difference.

Reply Score: 3

phoenix
Member since:
2005-07-11

What are the reasons to use either OpenOffice or LibreOffice?


Mainly because WordPerfect isn't available on Linux or FreeBSD (via Linux compat) anymore, and the version that was available (WP 2000) doesn't run on up-to-date versions of Linux/FreeBSD. ;)

And, because WP for Windows isn't in the affordable range any more (no longer qualify for student discounts).

Plus, it's nice to have the same application available on all the platforms we use at home (Windows, FreeBSD) and at work (Windows, Linux). And it's nice to be able to offer everyone (staff, students, family, friends) software for free that will work on their preferred OS (Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, MacOS X, and a handful of others).

It's not the greatest piece of software, but it's good enough for most uses that don't require custom workflows and scripting and other Microsoft lock-in crap.

Reply Score: 8

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

WordPerfect still exists as a product? Woah!

Reply Score: 2

MechaShiva Member since:
2005-07-06

I work in a court house where we are only just now moving away from WordPerfect. We have decades of legacy documents and it's still an integral part of our work flow (which means it'll be around for a long time to come) but change is coming. Of course, we're moving to office 365 so there's that. The secretarial staff is still in denial. Apparently, losing reveal codes brings on feelings of hostility and violence.

We're on X6 which is more or less excellent. Haven't played around with X7 yet but I'd expect more of the same. WordPerfect 8 was the last genuinely flakey version and it's improved steadily since. It's just a shame that their foray into Linux 15 years ago left them so gun shy about it moving forward. C'est la vie.

Reply Score: 3

What about the reverse
by kwan_e on Sat 31st Jan 2015 02:17 UTC
kwan_e
Member since:
2007-02-18

Being a programmer, the only document/office like things I have to do is sending emails. So I'm ignorant as to what kind of advanced word processing that MS Office provides that is actually needed in a modern business environment?

Reply Score: 2

RE: What about the reverse
by alexz on Sat 31st Jan 2015 20:47 UTC in reply to "What about the reverse"
alexz Member since:
2012-02-25

At this point it's probably mostly cross-compatibility among all the employees and clients. Docx/xlsx support has always been spotty in Open/Libreoffice. If not to read then you're sure it'd screw something when saving and reopening in ms office. It might've changed recently.


As a programmer I can also share a big reason: scripting. LibreOffice supports some scripting but nowhere near what MS Office's VBA can do or at the very least not compatible.


It's probably not a good practice to manage budgets in excel with a ton of VB macros, but it is what it is and sometimes it's just not cost effective to recode it all just to save a few bucks every 4-6 years(normal business upgrade schedule) by avoiding Microsoft.

Edited 2015-01-31 20:48 UTC

Reply Score: 3

v Ooh look...
by deathshadow on Sat 31st Jan 2015 02:17 UTC
v RE: Ooh look...
by deathshadow on Sat 31st Jan 2015 02:55 UTC in reply to "Ooh look..."
RE[2]: Ooh look...
by SzoylentGreen on Sat 31st Jan 2015 05:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Ooh look..."
SzoylentGreen Member since:
2013-05-08

OMG that is hideous!

WTF are they using their own homebrew rendering engine from 1995???

Seriously why can't they just use Cairo? I use Cairo for my rendering display engine and it works perfect on all 3 platform (Lin,Mac and win). Perfect font rendering/kerning and really easy to use API. Also get PDF export for free with Cairo.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Ooh look...
by M.Onty on Sat 31st Jan 2015 13:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Ooh look..."
M.Onty Member since:
2009-10-23

... and if it's that bad with cleartype that CAN do it properly, do I even want to know what a illegible train wreck of asshattery it is with the DISASTER known as FreeType?

(one of the many reasons Linsux is a tinkertoy as a desktop OS)

On Linux Mint: http://bristolbraille.co.uk/shared/libreoffice_spacing.png

Wierdly for a Linsux tinkertoy, its fractionally better than the Cleartype example.

Still shit of course. I don't use Office programs for any output that I want to look smart. Lyx does it better.

Edited 2015-01-31 13:29 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Ooh look...
by SeanParsons on Sat 31st Jan 2015 15:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Ooh look..."
SeanParsons Member since:
2011-01-11

... and if it's that bad with cleartype that CAN do it properly, do I even want to know what a illegible train wreck of asshattery it is with the DISASTER known as FreeType?


Hmmmmm, when I tried it in LO 4.4 on my Linux box, the kerning issues were still there, but not nearly as bad. And that is only how it looks on screen in LO. When I export it to a PDF or actually print it out the issues aren't really there.

By the way, I find it odd that the kerning is so bad with certain fonts, like Arial, and nonexistent in fonts like Liberation Serif.

I do hope it improves in future releases as I tried the same process in MS Word 2010 and there were no kerning issues there, but I still hate the ribbon interface and like having a free office suite with a few features that I can recommend to my students.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Ooh look...
by oiaohm on Sun 1st Feb 2015 08:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Ooh look..."
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

deathshadow interesting point is it does not happen on debian testing. Its kinda dependant on how old of a version of freetype are you using. Newer freetype uses Microsoft embedded hinting correctly so no problems. Please note using the embedded TTF hinting required a patent license so waiting until that expired was required.

https://www.mail-archive.com/libreoffice-bugs@lists.freedesktop.org/...

Also it never happens when printing or zoomed in.

cleartype
https://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=34752
MS Office 2013 what cleartype you don't have it.

deathshadow most complains about this kind of stuff turn out to be out of date freetype as cause.

With 4.4 libreoffice it also completely disappears when you enable opengl rendering.

Also the newer version in mint if you look closer is very different.

Char touching each other in the mint example is simple that screen is low DPI and there is just not enough pixels. Number of chars to a line in 4.4 is exactly the same even if they are touching.

Edited 2015-02-01 08:34 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Comment by neticspace
by neticspace on Sat 31st Jan 2015 02:50 UTC
neticspace
Member since:
2009-06-09

I have a big wish for Samsung to release its house-built word processor, Hunminjeongeum, as an open source software.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunminjeongeum_(word_processor)

Reply Score: 4

Comment by Finalzone
by Finalzone on Sat 31st Jan 2015 02:57 UTC
Finalzone
Member since:
2005-07-06

What are the reasons to use either OpenOffice or LibeOffice?

As LibreOffice user:
- Crossplatform because it is available on either Microsoft Windows, Linux distributions and Apple OS X.
- Support of standard format that is ODF. OOXML is practically Microsoft status quo for deliberately creating sub-standard on every release against the competition. See http://www.linuxveda.com/2014/11/29/never-use-microsofts-ooxml-pseu...
- Can rescue some files that Microsoft Office failed to open.
- Better restoration of files when crash occurred.
- Ability to edit PDF with Draws out of box.
- Sidebar can be considered a substitute for MS Ribbon.

Reply Score: 3

I want to like it
by gld59 on Sat 31st Jan 2015 05:32 UTC
gld59
Member since:
2012-11-09

I'm currently kind of stuck with Microsoft Office (2010), because I need continuity in my financial records. Each problem is more irritation than deal-breaker, but the combination is more than I'm prepared to put up with.
1. I designed my spreadsheets to a specific document window size, back when MDI (Multiple Document Interface) was normal. Excel still has MDI, while LO/AOO Calc do not, requiring fiddling around to instead get the application window size right.
2. Last time I checked, only a few weeks ago, LO Calc still had problems with row height (it decides to change them when I edit). I've read that this is a long-standing problem, but post-fork (ie it doesn't affect AOO Calc).
3. Last time I checked, AOO still had problems with current versions of Java.

I'd like to switch my "emergency spare" machine to Linux-only, but while I need a second machine with MSO it'll have to stay dual-boot (XP and Mint). ;)

Reply Score: 2

It's rather obvious
by Soulbender on Sat 31st Jan 2015 07:34 UTC
Soulbender
Member since:
2005-08-18

Because MS Office only runs on Windows and that's a bit of a bummer when you're not, you know, using Windows.
Also, it's not $100+ which is actually rather hefty price for those who don't use it that much.

Reply Score: 2

RE: It's rather obvious
by Moochman on Sat 31st Jan 2015 10:29 UTC in reply to "It's rather obvious"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

MS Office 2010 runs great on Linux with Wine - I easily installed it using PlayOnLinux and use it all the time and it really works flawlessly. MS Office on Mac is also available officially from Microsoft and I also use that all the time and find it to work flawlessly. So your first argument is just patently wrong.

That said, OpenOffice (I like the sidebar UI on a widescreen) or LibreOffice are both great, free programs that fully suffice for most simple documents and ought to be more than enough for the average home user.

Edited 2015-01-31 10:29 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Comment by kurkosdr
by kurkosdr on Sat 31st Jan 2015 12:11 UTC
kurkosdr
Member since:
2011-04-11

What are the reasons to use either OpenOffice or LibeOffice?


Because KingSoft Office (aka WPS Office) doesn't have good dictionary support for some languages, and because you can't afford the 10 bucks/euros needed to buy a cracked version of MS Office.

If you fall into that particular niche, then LibreOffice is your choice.

Jocking aside, LibreOffice is used by so many people because branding. It was, for a long long time, the only alternative to MS Office. Most people don't even know an even better alternative called WPS Office even exists, because it's relatively new.

Reply Score: 2

LibreOffice and OpenOffice
by Jason Bourne on Sun 1st Feb 2015 04:08 UTC
Jason Bourne
Member since:
2007-06-02

Well, I have seen an article which states at least one or two millenar bugs in LibreOffice that was resolved in OpenOffice no problem. It had to do with importing an Excel sheet and something would go wrong with the importation of the file.

So this means, having more features doesn't necessarily make a product superior. The licensing is quite unfair. OpenOffice should also get stuff from LibreOffice - I would like to be filled in on how this ended up a one way road only.

Anyways, I would be cautious to say LibreOffice is "better", specially in bug resolving.

But for one thing I know. In my last scientific paper, a thesis, I had to use MS Word 2010. First reason was its outstanding language tools - exceptional grammar checking, exceptional orthography detection. Not the same with LibreOffice and cousin. Second thing was others in my group and professors having to check the document all the time and it had to be in .docx - shame isn't it.

Reply Score: 3

RE: LibreOffice and OpenOffice
by oiaohm on Mon 2nd Feb 2015 05:49 UTC in reply to "LibreOffice and OpenOffice"
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

OpenOffice should also get stuff from LibreOffice - I would like to be filled in on how this ended up a one way road only.
It begins and ends with one company IBM.

OpenOffice under sun was LGPL. IBM made the Lotus suite so when OpenOffice left Oracle and goes to Apache IBM pushes for Apache License 2.0 advantage for IBM is the means to make a closed source program using Apache License 2.0 and they open up Lotus extensions to the OpenOffice code base in exchange.

Mozilla Public License is what Libreoffice uses. Turns out of companies are more happy releasing code under LGPL or Mozilla Public License than Apache License because they don't have to worry about competitor profiting from their work.

Basically this is Linux vs BSD kind of mess all over again.

OpenOffice to get stuff from Libreoffice would have to give up on the idea of commercial product wrapping.

Yes it might seam unfair but this is the way the world is.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: LibreOffice and OpenOffice
by pfgbsd on Tue 3rd Feb 2015 04:11 UTC in reply to "RE: LibreOffice and OpenOffice"
pfgbsd Member since:
2011-03-12

OpenOffice should also get stuff from LibreOffice - I would like to be filled in on how this ended up a one way road only.
It begins and ends with one company IBM.

OpenOffice under sun was LGPL. IBM made the Lotus suite so when OpenOffice left Oracle and goes to Apache IBM pushes for Apache License 2.0 advantage for IBM is the means to make a closed source program using Apache License 2.0 and they open up Lotus extensions to the OpenOffice code base in exchange.


I don't get the "OpenOffice left Oracle" thing: Oracle had it's own commercial fork "Oracle OpenOffice.org". The LibreOffice fork poisoned the community and Oracle quit the office business altogether. Oracle withdrew the funding and most OpenOffice paid developers had to find jobs elsewhere.

Mozilla Public License is what Libreoffice uses. Turns out of companies are more happy releasing code under LGPL or Mozilla Public License than Apache License because they don't have to worry about competitor profiting from their work.


I disagree .. companies are not happy to give anything. They can be coerced into giving back under a GPL license but if they can take under a permissive license they will prefer it. And a growing amount of software is now under an Apache License, especially for cloud stuff.

OpenOffice to get stuff from Libreoffice would have to give up on the idea of commercial product wrapping.

Yes it might seam unfair but this is the way the world is.


OpenOffice is under an Apache License and there is no way back on that: the code was released already and will not disappear. If developers prefer Mozilla or stricter copyleft then that's their decision and I wouldn't consider it unfair, just as it wouldn't be unfair if Corel or any company takes OpenOffice and builds a new product on top of it without "sharing" the source code.

Reply Score: 1