Linked by Eugenia Loli on Sat 20th Sep 2003 05:01 UTC, submitted by tim1980
Mandriva, Mandrake, Lycoris Lycoris Desktop/LX Update 3 hits shelves this week, after a wait of a whole year. This much anticipated Update the award winning Desktop/LX OS features a new Help Center with interactive audio-visual tutorials, hundreds of updated drivers, crisper font handling, increased printer support for HP printers, extended digital camera support from Vivitar and Olympus, auto-configuration of WiFi connections, and exclusive Signature Wallpapers from Organic Light Photography. Currently Update3 is available via retail purchase, free download version will be made available on November 1st.
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touchy touchy!
by dronebee on Sat 20th Sep 2003 05:31 UTC

The tone of the download announcement seemed just a tad militant.

Yeah, the gpl does not meant that it has to free, but they are building upon the hard work of others who DID make thier code available for free. There are plenty of linux distros out there for no cost; it does need seem out of line or ingrateful to ask for at least a trial version before shelling out.

not out of line
by dronebee on Sat 20th Sep 2003 05:33 UTC

previous should say "not out of line"

I know this will come up....
by D3M0N on Sat 20th Sep 2003 05:34 UTC

Congratulations! Update 3 looks like a superb product. Keep it up Lycoris.

Before it gets on this topic, which I know it will as it does everytime....Update 3 still includes KDE2. Highly customized, many patches, about as fast as KDE 3, their KDE is vey stable, and Lycoris involves QT3.
So before you complain, don't waste your breath....Doesn't do anything by complaining, just makes ya look like a whiner.

"involves QT3"
by D3M0N on Sat 20th Sep 2003 05:40 UTC

"involves QT3" ---> should be "includes QT3"

v improvments
by Anonymous on Sat 20th Sep 2003 05:40 UTC
dronebee
by Anonymous on Sat 20th Sep 2003 05:41 UTC

read the announcement again before you start spouting off.

specifically, the part about a free download being available November 1st.

yeah, that's what i thought.....

For Anonymous
by Eugenia on Sat 20th Sep 2003 06:04 UTC

Anonymous at cox.net please stop posting a piece of text that is ALREADY linked from the article. There is no point.

Nostalgia!
by anon on Sat 20th Sep 2003 06:09 UTC

Ahhhhh... KDE 2.x! Makes me feel all nostalgic for 2001!

Just kidding... this looks like a very solid update and a nice product. Those backgrounds look very fetching, although i'm not huge on the new WM decoration.

However how does Lycoris compare to Sun Java Desktop, Ximian Desktop 2 or Lindows in this day and age? I'm curious...

RE: anon
by D3M0N on Sat 20th Sep 2003 06:23 UTC

I have not tried Sun Java Desktop so I can not comment there. I will try to be unbiased too when I compare Lindows and Ximian Desktop 2.

Ximian Desktop 2- XD2 is very nice. I prefer KDE though, just my opinion. XD2 was very polished, but I ran into some bugs and doesn't feel very complete. Menu structure is horrible, My Computer isn't anything comparable to Lycoris's My Linux System.

Lindows- Besides the company, which I don't like, the distro is OK. I don't care that you have to pay, that was the companies choice. The desktop of Lindows is very nice and polished, but some newbies could freak out. To many icons on the desktop (while helpful, still more than windows), start menu is great though. I felt Lindows lacking apps (yes, I know click-n-run...), but why force a user to buy apps through click-n-run? Thats like a MS tactic to me.

Hope this is somethign like what you wanted.

Wallpapers :)
by icarii on Sat 20th Sep 2003 06:35 UTC

After having a look at some of the images from Organic Light Photography i'm drooling - not for lycoris (I use redhat 9 + Ximian desktop 2) - but for the awesome wallpapers ;)

Updates
by Anonymous on Sat 20th Sep 2003 06:48 UTC

Just saw that you won't have to wait for 1 November to update your existing installation.

http://www.lycoris.org/viewtopic.php?topic=9982&forum=60&start=21

Militant Download Announcement
by The Erotic Awakening of S on Sat 20th Sep 2003 07:13 UTC

But what if I buy it and I want to make it freely available on my FTP server and make copies for my friends. Is that fine? Lycoris is still free as in speech, right? I can do what I want with it?



RE: Militant Download Announcement
by Eugenia on Sat 20th Sep 2003 07:26 UTC

Lycoris includes propretary packages created by Lycoris Inc and others, so no, you can only distribute what's really free and not the rest.

RE: Militant Download Announcement
by The Erotic Awakening of S on Sat 20th Sep 2003 07:33 UTC

I guess I'll pass on it then.

Lycoris needs a dedicated, experienced PR person on staff because that announcement was snotty. Imagine if Apple posted something like that about Safari...that would be hilarious.




RE: The Erotic Awakening of S
by D3M0N on Sat 20th Sep 2003 07:35 UTC

Read this. He does this because of the way some people act.
http://lycoris.org/viewtopic.php?topic=10007&forum=33&start=15

RE: RE: Militant Download Announcement
by Anonymous on Sat 20th Sep 2003 08:04 UTC

According to the above link, you can distribute ISOs for free on your FTP site - you just can't charge for the privilege.

re:dronebee
by raver31 on Sat 20th Sep 2003 10:10 UTC

I don't think you have read and understood the gpl properly.
A company is allowed to take gpl code, modify it, add to it and redistribute it with a charge for doing so.
The only caveat is that they have to make the sections which use gpl code available as source code.
If a company adds its own code, it does not have to make the source code available.
Likewise, if a company, builds a complete system using gpl code for everything, it has to offer the source code. It can charge for distribution, and it does not have to offer a free download.

Re: re:dronebee
by rajan r on Sat 20th Sep 2003 10:54 UTC

The only caveat is that they have to make the sections which use gpl code available as source code.
If a company adds its own code, it does not have to make the source code available.


Actually, the later part is half true. It depends where the additional code is. If you add it in directly or even dynamically link the GPL software to it, it must be in GPL too. LGPL doesn't follow on the latter one.

Besides, even if my software is 100% GPL, I can still charge for distribution and still prevent others from redistributing it without charges. Other things like documentation, icons, logos, and the likes can be copyrighted and/or trademarked, preventing others froum using it.

more power to their elbow
by Andrew D on Sat 20th Sep 2003 12:01 UTC

I'm pleased the Lycoris is still around and bringing out another version as I am with any linux vendor. I hope it works well commercially for them.

I downloaded a couple of the earlier builds and they didn't do it for me but I'll probably have a look come November at this one too. I'm curious to see how they've managed to get KDE 2 to keep up or indeed if they have. Personally I think KDE 2 sucks so will be interested. ;)

isdn ...
by aladdin on Sat 20th Sep 2003 12:06 UTC

still no isdn support included? not usable for me ;(

Rock On.
by tim1980 on Sat 20th Sep 2003 12:41 UTC

Lycoris Rocks!

I can't wait to get my copy in the mail in the next few days. YaY!

For you people who don't want to pay for it I have this to say to you.

In the next few days Lycoris staff has said they will make available update 3 via the Update Wizard. So install an old version and upgrade it!

Oh and if you buy it you can upload the ISO to a FTP server for others to download, just don't charge for it.

I don't get the lycoris community
by The Erotic Awakening of S on Sat 20th Sep 2003 13:00 UTC

Being so gung-ho, grassroots and militant about proprietary software...woo hoo!! power to the people! Lycoris is trying to turn the linux desktop into something just as locked up, trademarked, copyrighted, and unfree-as-in-speech as MS, what's so great about that? If we can't share this software with our friends, how are we any better off with Lycoris than we are with our current overloards?



RE: Lycoris Update 3 Released
by Matthew Baulch on Sat 20th Sep 2003 13:08 UTC

> We put in a whole lot more than just GPL software.

This is an insult to the entire OSS community. Shame on you Lycoris.

RE: Lycoris Update 3 Released
by Matthew Baulch on Sat 20th Sep 2003 13:15 UTC

To elaborate on the line "We put in a whole lot more than just GPL software" a bit further, Lycoris are degrading GPL software by saying that they put in a lot more effort. Effort implies quality, usefulness and superiority of the final product. I won't condemn Lycoris Linux as a poor product but I will say that it is far from perfect. It contains very few applications and is based on the very old KDE2.

This statement effectively implies that OpenOffice, Mozilla, GNOME and all of the other high-quality open source projects that people and companies have invested lots of effort and thousands of hours in are of poor quality and a waste of time.

An approach more similar to Mandrake or RedHat by saying something like "We offer Product version X to paying customers first as a reward but still allow people who choose not to pay to receive the product at a later time." would be more diplomatic. Optionally, they could take SuSE's stance and not allow ISOs to be downloaded at all. The only difference is that SuSE aren't arrogant about it.

RE: Lycoris Update 3 Released
by Anonymous on Sat 20th Sep 2003 13:57 UTC

Have you never heard that sometimes "less is more"?

The things they put in were their time and efforts in packaging an easy to use distro for new linux users. Software selection, packaging, configuration, etc......

Some people buy it simply because it doesn't contain a million different apps like mandrake and others....

From RC1 to release?
by Anonomous on Sat 20th Sep 2003 14:15 UTC

Did we all miss something? Shouldn't there have been maybe an rc2 at least? Lycoris seems to be imploding. I thought the post by the sales VP was arrogant and distasteful too.

I heard that Lindows is going to include OO and Mplayer in their release when purchased to make it really useable, so Lycoris will probably be going down.

Also try out ARK linux, it rocks better than both.

please use it
by pulidzz on Sat 20th Sep 2003 14:32 UTC

Please to the complaining public. Try it out first before you complain. Will you be able to easily use your Digital cameras with your current distros as opposed to Lycoris? Your USB storage divices, are they as easiliy accessesable in Lycoris? Which is more easier, using and setting up scanners/printers in your distro or in Lycoris? If you can answer these things based on experience with the current Update 3, then that is the time you could say your peace.

RE: Free Downloads
by B. Smith on Sat 20th Sep 2003 15:32 UTC

Come on people. Please. These guys are doing this to put food on the table. Granted, they are using GPL software. And they have not ignored that fact. The ISO will be available free, along with the source. Including, I might add, all of the features that they have included in addition to the GPL software. And yes, you can freely give it away without limit to anyone who wants it. You just have to wait a little while, because they want to give those of us who paid for it first crack at the new version.

Libranet does the same thing, and RedHat, etc. Most of the Linux distros either hold off a while after release before releasing free copies, or follow the lead of Lindows and make you pay out the nose forever. Lycoris is going to give their hard work to the world, free of charge, in recognition of the fact that the community is key to their survival. They just want their paying customers to have first crack at it for a couple of months. Is that so unreasonable?

Barry

Shame on you, OSNews readers
by pret on Sat 20th Sep 2003 15:51 UTC

I've never used Lycoris, and probably never will (gentoo is just dandy for me on x86, and YDL on my mac), but many of the comments here are greatly ignorant about the rights that the GPL give to companies like Lycoris.

They can choose to keep their product for paying customers ALL they want. The GPL has NOTHING to do with money in general. Hell, if I was Lycoris, I would probably never release their ISO for download. Plenty of distros already do this (ahem, SuSE, Lindows)

What I _would_ like to see is more community involvement from Lycoris. Sure, they fixed a lot of things in KDE2. Why didn't they contribute back to the KDE team? Corel did to KDE. Ximian did to GNOME.

Oh yeah
by pret on Sat 20th Sep 2003 15:54 UTC

the screenshots of their desktop look pretty nice. They made kde2 look nice, congrats because I always thought kde2 was unfinished, unstable, and just pretty damn ugly (sorta how gnome 2.x is now)

KDE 3.1, on the other hand, is pretty good and looks modern. I'd love to see a Lycorized KDE 3.1.

RE: pret
by B. Smith on Sat 20th Sep 2003 15:55 UTC

Um...they did and do release the source code for all the changes they made (and are still making). I am not sure that the KDE team would be interested in bug fixes and improvements to an older version that they have already left behind. True they might be, and if so the source is avilable to anyone who wants it.

GPL goodness
by dronebee on Sat 20th Sep 2003 17:54 UTC

I don't think you have read and understood the gpl properly. A company is allowed to take gpl code, modify it, add to it and redistribute it with a charge for doing so.


Actually, that's exactly what I said. The thrust of my comment was that the guy who wrote the download announcment came off like a jerk.

People are used to getting linux distros for free, so if you charge for it, be prepared for some level of criticism. Even if you are quite justified in asking for payment to feed the kids, etc.

In the lycoris message boards he did apologize a bit, but maybe the announcement of a new product that involves a lot of hard work should be a little more positive.

RE:RE: pret
by Anonymous on Sat 20th Sep 2003 20:00 UTC

Lycoris has not released there or other GPL source code in over a year.

Re:Re: pret
by The Erotic Awakening of S on Sat 20th Sep 2003 20:31 UTC

>>Lycoris has not released there or other GPL source code in over a year.

What a surprise. The whole download announcement only condescends people who want the distro to be free as in beer, and no, it doesn't have to be, but it makes no reference to redistribution of the ISOs by paying customers, the free-as-in-speech aspect, and that's all I care about. I think Lycoris would like to pretend that section of the GPL doesn't exist. These guys come off as such money-hungry greedy snobs, the Lycoris community right at this point in time reminds me of the AOL community in its very early days, and look what that turned into. All these people who think Lycoris is all about some free "flower power" happy, we-want-to-make-the-world-better ideology are in for a rude awakening if they ever get some market share. These guys care about one thing, making money at wal-mart, and they will copyright, patent, trademark, and proprietize anything and everything they possibly can to achieve that goal. They have no intention of giving anything back or contributing to a community in any way. They've got a shiny website with some pretty forums, that's it. It doesn't surprise me one bit that they're not releasing their source code; they seem to have this idea that they invented Linux and KDE because they've made some modifications to it.

Sharing Lycoris
by The Erotic Awakening of S on Sat 20th Sep 2003 20:34 UTC

>>Oh and if you buy it you can upload the ISO to a FTP server for others to download, just don't charge for it.

Is this true? Because Euginia said the opposite. I would really like to hear from someone at Lycoris themselves whether this is true.



pret & sharing
by Anonymous on Sat 20th Sep 2003 21:08 UTC

lycoris has copyrighted atwork in there distro so you would have to remove it from the installer and everywhere else and recompile the stuff then you could put it on a ftp site or do what ever you wanted to

also about the part where they have not release the source code in over a year they released it up till like rc0 or around then on the ftp servers but due to bandwith issues they could not keep providing it each time they release a new beta

also they dont have to provide the source code for dl
if you look at section section 1 paragraph 2 all they have to do is provide for you when you ask for it
they could even charge for it

RE: Sharing Lycoris
by BSmith on Sat 20th Sep 2003 21:21 UTC

The Lycoris EULA specifically gives you the right to pass it out to your friends. The ONLY restrictions that they place is a REQUEST that if you use their work in your business (i.e. to make money) that you purchase a copy.

This sounds about as fair to me as it gets. I have seen more times than I can count where people on the forums who were using the free download edition received prompt and courteous response from the company, including the company president.

Go to lycoris.org and run a search on the forums. You will find a long list of posts about this subject.

So yes, you can give it away to anyone you wish. You just can't take their work and re-sell it for your own profit. I see no reason to complain about that, nor do I consider it an unreasonable restriction. Download a free copy, identical to the one they sell except for access to the IRIS library. Then make a dozen copies and pass them out to you friends. No one cares. Just don't sell them. And if you are going to use Lycoris to install a flock of desktop systems for your clerical staff, or whatever, it would be a nice courtesy to actually pay for them.

How could this be unfair?

RE: The Erotic Awakening of S
by zegenie on Sat 20th Sep 2003 22:35 UTC

Your whole last post are built on completely unfounded arguments, and really shows that you dont care about what you post as long as you can rant on about your thoughts withgout any regards to what is true and what is not.

What is said about the source code after you posted is true. You should refrain from commenting something you know NOTHING about.

And what do you know about which part of the GPL Lycoris wish would just vanish?? Lycoris has a reputation for having one of _the_ best community out there, and the Lycoris staff is working _very_ hard alongside their community members to ensure they get the best product possible.

They are in _no_ way "money-hungry" snobs, and the way you are insulting the lycoris community, yet again shows that you have _no_ idea what you are talking about, none the less any arguments based on truth.

No one in the community things that Lycoris is about a _free_ we-want-to-make-the-world-better ideology. But apparently, _you_ are. So, it also seems as _you_ just got your "rude awakening". If not, wake up! They are there to make a living as well as providing a GREAT linux distro.

And the whole last part of your comment talking about the copyrights and that they think they invented linux is just such a complete list of unfounded nonsense I dont even need to comment it.

v @zeginie
by The Erotic Awakening of S on Sat 20th Sep 2003 22:46 UTC
GPL
by contrasutra on Sat 20th Sep 2003 22:46 UTC

You dont have to put the Source on FTP or anything. You just have to distribute it to people who have already bought/downloaded a binary.

As someone else said, you can even charge for the source (as long as its just for shipping costs), as long as you send it to customers when they request it.

Please READ the GPL before you go defending it. Yes, its a long document, but reading it through once is a very educational experience that helps you understand the whole movement.


Lycoris seems to be abiding by the GPL fine, and even goes above and beyond by offering free ISOs.

And I can understand why the source isnt on their FTP, because their user base rarely needs the source, so its a waste of bandwidth.

RE: pret & sharing
by Anonymous on Sat 20th Sep 2003 22:52 UTC

Would you like to see the email requesting the source code for the late beta's or the post on the forums about getting the source code. Or would you like to see the " written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange" from lycoris. Well I can show you the first two but the written agrment your going to have to find for your self.

Erotic to you
by pulidzz on Sun 21st Sep 2003 04:20 UTC

You should really based your comments on facts. I feel for you. I really hurts to find your ego being trumpled like this because of your own baseless comments.

Whole arugment.
by anselm on Sun 21st Sep 2003 05:42 UTC

I think this whole arugment is pointless myself.

the furture
by annomusseeoppaar on Tue 23rd Sep 2003 14:30 UTC

lycoris will soon be the last distro to have KDE2.2.2 on the planet