Linked by Steve Barnhart on Tue 18th Nov 2003 01:36 UTC
SuSE, openSUSE I recently picked up a copy of SuSE 9.0 Professional. I have never used or been familiar with a SuSE product before as I've only used Mandrake, Red Hat, and a bit of Debian. After using Red Hat for a while I decided to evaluate SuSE and I am now sorry for not having tried it sooner.
Order by: Score:
Suse is great.
by Andrew Walsh on Mon 17th Nov 2003 19:57 UTC

Everybody has their favorite distros. But for me Suse has always been the best for desktop. And being an astronomy geek, their star-finding app (kstar?) is icing on the cake.

I hope they continue to excell under Novell, no rhyme intended.

v OS News Poll
by Crawling Mushroom Syndicate on Mon 17th Nov 2003 20:10 UTC
RE: Andrew Walsh
by Anonymous on Mon 17th Nov 2003 20:13 UTC

actually kstars is just a part of KDE - I have it in Libranet, Yellow-Dog, etc.

ditto
by burntash on Mon 17th Nov 2003 20:21 UTC

hopefully suse will get pushed further by novell and soon begin conquering the desktop market. i think by the time longhorn comes out linux will be a very well matured and polished os for the desktop, even though it already is, but it could use some help.

v Modded down
by JAJ on Mon 17th Nov 2003 20:41 UTC
SUSE 9.0 FTP version
by Anonymous on Mon 17th Nov 2003 20:41 UTC

The SUSE 9.0 FTP version will be available this Saturday.

I agree, but...
by bb_matt on Mon 17th Nov 2003 20:46 UTC

I agree fully with the review - SuSe is one helluva a good desktop system !, but, there's still some nigglies and bugs with Suse that I've come across.

No distribution is perfect and although Suse 9.0 is so accomplished, I've had some issues with it.

Connecting to windows networks seems to be a bit random after configuring networking with Yast. On one install, it ran perfectly, on several other installs it just didn't work properly.

That's samba for you though - a bit troublesome !

5 Disks+ 1 DVD
by Anonymous on Mon 17th Nov 2003 20:47 UTC

To be more correctly, it is a double-sided DVD.

Pronouncing SuSE
by Rayiner Hashem on Mon 17th Nov 2003 20:48 UTC

Pronounce it like if you were German (from the FAQ):

"SuSE, pronounced soo'-suh, comes from the German acronym, "Software und Systementwicklung (Software and System Development)."

A thread about how to pronounce SuSE:

http://www.netsys.com/suse-linux-e/1999-Mar/0353.html

Excerpt from thread:

"I will explain the German way of pronounciation:

Su ... like suit (but keep the u short)
SE ... like set"

SuSE's kernel sources have some sort of Makefile bug or whatnot so that any module one compiles against them won't be accepted by insmod. Instead, insmod complains of a kernel version mismatch. Why the other distros get this right and SuSE doesn't, I don't know exactly.

How goo dis the Gnome Q&A?
by Anonymous on Mon 17th Nov 2003 20:56 UTC

Suse's Gnome has alwayed had horrible Q&A. They have promised to make it better repeatidly.

Have they? I really want to know wether I should even consider this distro.

@Rayiner
by ThanatosNL on Mon 17th Nov 2003 21:11 UTC

SE pronounced "suh" and SE pronounced "set" are two different pronunciations.

Is the second syllable pronounced like "SUdden" or "SEt" ?

Re: How good is the Gnome Q&A?
by John Blink on Mon 17th Nov 2003 21:16 UTC

I expect the next version of SuSE will have Ximian GNOME so it will be better.

On semi-proprietary Linux.
by None on Mon 17th Nov 2003 21:18 UTC

I guess when it comes to proprietary Linux Suse is O.K., but I'll be sticking with Fedora and Debian. I know this isn't everyones cup of tea, but if I'm going to be using proprietary software that has strings attached to it I'd just assume stick with Windows.

No need to flame about being a zealot, if Suse, Xandros, Lindows or some other flavor of proprietary Linux works for you, stick with what work for you. That doesn't make your choice less worthy then mine.

Realize though that some of us have different goals and priorities for Linux and just flat out aren't interested in seeing a future where all Linux Distros are semi-proprietary.

Regards

@ThanatosNL
by Rayiner Hashem on Mon 17th Nov 2003 21:25 UTC

Depends on how accurate you want to be. Pronouncing it 'soo-suh' is close enough. If you want to be really accurate, pronouncing is 'soo-se', with the 's' between an 's' and a 'z' and the 'e' between an 'e' and a 'y'.

Read the thread I linked to. Its really very humerous. I think the conclusion they came to in the end is that its an acronym anyway, so it doesn't matter ;)

Re: On semi-proprietary Linux.
by Knockturn Alley on Mon 17th Nov 2003 21:30 UTC

"I guess when it comes to proprietary Linux Suse is O.K., but I'll be sticking with Fedora and Debian."

Not sure how you're seeing Suse as being proprietary and Fedora as not...

Re: Re: On semi-proprietary Linux.
by d@ on Mon 17th Nov 2003 21:45 UTC

"Not sure how you're seeing Suse as being proprietary and Fedora as not..."

AFAIK all programs released in Fedora are GPL.

d@

it is pronounced like this:
by M on Mon 17th Nov 2003 21:45 UTC

From what the announcement novell had, they called it susa - like the composer Sousa

another one?
by alan on Mon 17th Nov 2003 21:48 UTC

if i read one more review about how to install a distro .. i guess i'll puke !!! has anyone read anything like how to install OS X, how to install XP:) easier or harder, u can install a system, or get someone who can do it for you. What matters is, how easy it is to install software on OS, if you have nice software to video conference, check your emails, browse net etc... hope one day we would be talkin about those instead how easy it is to install linux.

Best distro for KDE partisans
by kit on Mon 17th Nov 2003 21:48 UTC

I'm really comfortable with KDE, so SUSE fits my needs nicely. SUSE keeps an updated repository of KDE builds, and the "all of KDE" install option is pretty much just that. Makes it easy to be All Things KDE.

Gnome support seems fine, though I'm less qualified to judge. I would warn folks away from installing the Ximian desktop on SUSE unless you don't mind some violence to the KDE desktop and YaST. There are work-arounds for most of the problems, but Ximian installs Nautilus shortcuts directly into the shared Desktop file and moves all of KDE's icons into a new folder. YaST doesn't appreciate all the Ximian-modified Gnome files. I'm sure all these problems will be rectified now that Ximian and SUSE are all part of the same stable.

"SuSE's kernel sources have some sort of Makefile bug or whatnot so that any module one compiles against them won't be accepted by insmod. Instead, insmod complains of a kernel version mismatch. Why the other distros get this right and SuSE doesn't, I don't know exactly."

Never mind. I think I'm an idiot. From the ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-4496/README.txt:

Q: I can't build the NVIDIA kernel module, or I can build the NVIDIA
kernel module, but modprobe/insmod fails to load the module into
my kernel. What's wrong?

A: These problems are generally caused by the build using the wrong kernel
header files (ie header files for a different kernel version than
the one you are running). The convention used to be that kernel
header files should be stored in "/usr/include/linux/", but that
is deprecated in favor of "/lib/modules/`uname -r`/build/include".
The nvidia-installer should be able to determine the location on your
system; however, if you encounter a problem you can force the build
to use certain header files by using the --kernel-include-dir option.
Obviously, for this to work, you need the appropriate kernel header
files installed on your system. Consult the documentation that came
with your distribution; some distributions don't install the kernel
header files by default, or they install headers that don't coincide
properly with the kernel you are running.


(BTW, no I was not trying to build NVIDIA modules, but the problem relates to the kernel version mismatch issues with other modules, I think.)

v re: Modded Down
by Mr. Banned on Mon 17th Nov 2003 22:05 UTC
Re: Has SuSE fixed how they handle kernel module versioning?
by i_code_too_much on Mon 17th Nov 2003 22:13 UTC

I believe the standard suse kernel is compiled by default without module versioning. Here's a snippet of their kernel config file:

#
# Loadable module support
#
CONFIG_MODULES=y
# CONFIG_MODVERSIONS is not set
CONFIG_KMOD=y

Regards

Re: Re: Re: On semi-proprietary Linux.
by Gecko on Mon 17th Nov 2003 22:17 UTC

Fedora is supposed to be built entirely from free software so there should not be a proprietary bit in the system.

Yast and configuration
by Anonymous on Mon 17th Nov 2003 22:24 UTC

One of the things I hated about Suse is that Yast doens't like you to change config files using command line or Webmin, and reverted them. Did that change recently?

v re: Modded Down
by blank on Mon 17th Nov 2003 22:28 UTC
SOOSA
by Sikosis on Mon 17th Nov 2003 22:39 UTC

I thought it was pronouced SOOSA (like Noosa ;) )...

SuSE is the best Linux distro I've used out of Mandrache, Gentoo, RH9, Morphix, Knoppix. It is the most polished. That being said - there are no FTP mirror close to me so I hope Novell changes that.

Also, the other issues I've had with SuSE are mainly KDE related. Like their menu is just as useless as Windows's Start Menu.

license
by Sikosis on Mon 17th Nov 2003 22:44 UTC

the biggest problem I have with SuSE in the corporate world ... is their license.

Like if it's going to cost our company - $400 for SuSE and a Windows Terminal Server License for each workstation, we might as well just go and buy Windows XP Pro for $600 which comes with the TS license ... The XP box can do more than the Linux one (ie. run native windows locally).

Re: On semi-proprietary Linux.
by Knockturn Alley on Mon 17th Nov 2003 22:57 UTC

"AFAIK all programs released in Fedora are GPL."

Mind you, I'm not arguing, just asking..which parts of Suse are not GPL?

Re: On semi-proprietary Linux.
by Erwos on Mon 17th Nov 2003 23:02 UTC

"Mind you, I'm not arguing, just asking..which parts of Suse are not GPL?"

YAST is not under a free as in speech license. ALL of Fedora's stuff is under a free license. Yes, YAST is under a fairly liberal license, but that's just not good enough for a lot of people. (the preceding sentence was NOT intended as a flame - I'm one of those people)

Speaking of which, I've heard that the Fedora-Config mailing list is really starting to get busy - this bodes VERY well for the future of Fedora...

-Erwos

RE: Re: On semi-proprietary Linux.
by Greg on Mon 17th Nov 2003 23:04 UTC

YaST and SaX are proprietary tools.

By the way, it's 'free software', not GPL. There are many programs covered by, say, the BSD or Apache license included in these distros.

RE: Re: On semi-proprietary Linux.
by Greg on Mon 17th Nov 2003 23:05 UTC

That response was to Knockturn, not Erwos. Sorry if I sound harsh--I mean 'proprietary' as opposed to 'free software'.

Re: Re: On semi-proprietary Linux.
by David Fredin on Mon 17th Nov 2003 23:06 UTC

YaST???!!!

Modded down
by Robocop on Mon 17th Nov 2003 23:37 UTC

I'll add to the cries.....why was this modded down? This is plain silly is it not? Perhaps it's time to find a new news site?!


How do you pronounce "SuSE"?

A.) Ess-yoo-ess-ee
B.) Soo-ess-ee
C.) Sooce
D.) Sooz
E.) Susie

Why was this modded down? This is a legit question that I would like to know the answer to. Anyone?

v Re: Modded down
by Knockturn Alley on Mon 17th Nov 2003 23:51 UTC
SuSE is nice
by pailhead on Mon 17th Nov 2003 23:57 UTC

Yeah SuSE is awesome.. I have 9.0 and run it along side Fedora, but I just wish SuSE would also focus more attention on GNOME. On SuSE I find KDE to be very slow where as GNOME is quick as snot on my Fedora system. 9.0 has an awesome control center. YaST2 is the sweetest thing i've seen in linux. very easy to do any updates to your system etc. I'm not bashing SuSE I think it's awesome. I just wish they would give more thought about GNOME. I'm a GNOMEr ;)

Just a comment ...
by CesarA on Tue 18th Nov 2003 00:03 UTC

When I first started using Linux, Red Hat was my distro of choice. I used RH for about 3 years (starting with 6.2), until I tried SuSE 8.2 earlier this year. The reason why I switched was because RH could not automatically configure my wireless network card, and so I was curious to see if some other distro could do it. To my surprise SuSE 8.2 did it with no problems. I've been using SuSE since then and I wish I had switched a lot earlier.

Also, searching for and installing packages in SuSE is so much more easier than in RH. Can you even search for a specific package in RH with the install/uninstall tool? Well, you can with YaST, and it is a great feature if you are looking for a old library file or some other mysterious package.

Anyways, if you've never tried SuSE, definitely give it a shot.

That can't be correct, otherwise insmod would never complain about kernel version mismatches.

BTW, I take it back about me being wrong about SUSE screwing up. I found the problem.

Here's where Red Hat and SUSE stamp the module with the kernel version:

Lines 305-307 in /usr/src/linux-2.4.22-1.2115.nptl/include/linux/module.h from Red Hat:

305 #include <linux/version.h>
306 static const char __module_kernel_version[] __attribute__((section(".modinfo"))) =
307 "kernel_version=" UTS_RELEASE;

Lines 299-301 in /usr/src/linux-2.4.20.SuSE/include/linux/module.h from SuSE:

299 #include <linux/version.h>
300 static const char __module_kernel_version[] __attribute__((unused, __section__(".modinfo"))) =
301 "kernel_version=" UTS_RELEASE;

Both use as the value for the kernel version the preprocessor macro UTS_RELEASE, which is defined in linux/version.h.

The /usr/src/linux-2.4.22-1.2115.nptl/include/linux/version.h from Red Hat:

#include <linux/rhconfig.h>
#if defined(__module__smp)
#define UTS_RELEASE "2.4.22-1.2115.nptlsmp"
#elif defined(__module__BOOT)
#define UTS_RELEASE "2.4.22-1.2115.nptlBOOT"
#elif defined(__module__bigmem)
#define UTS_RELEASE "2.4.22-1.2115.nptlbigmem"
#else
#define UTS_RELEASE "2.4.22-1.2115.nptl"
#endif
#define LINUX_VERSION_CODE 132118
#define KERNEL_VERSION(a,b,c) (((a) << 16) + ((b) << 8) + (c))

Red Hat uses some #ifdefs to ensure that the value of UTS_RELEASE actually matches the value of "uname -r".

The /usr/src/linux-2.4.20.SuSE/include/linux/version.h from SUSE:

#define UTS_RELEASE "2.4.20-4GB"
#define LINUX_VERSION_CODE 132116
#define KERNEL_VERSION(a,b,c) (((a) << 16) + ((b) << 8) + (c))

No preprocessor magic, no nothing. UTS_RELEASE always is set to the static value of 2.4.20-4GB. Oops.

BTW, before you say "But you should be looking in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/build/include for the header files!", I should point out that in SUSE, "/lib/modules/`uname -r`/build" is a symbolic link to /usr/src/linux-2.4.20.SuSE/. In Red Hat, the files in "/lib/modules/`uname -r`/build/include/linux" and /usr/src/linux-2.4.22-1.2115.nptl/include/linux/ happen to be the same.

bittorrent?
by guy on Tue 18th Nov 2003 00:07 UTC

anybody know a bittorrent link for downloading tier iso's?

i believe their license states that you can distribute your ISO's, but not charge for them.

v re:Mod down
by Qeru Hunter on Tue 18th Nov 2003 01:10 UTC
RE: Modded down
by xkalibur on Tue 18th Nov 2003 02:00 UTC

soo sah

Fedora is not all GPL...
by JC on Tue 18th Nov 2003 03:14 UTC


Actually, I can't say that for sure. But if Fedora includes XFree, then it's not all GPL. XFree isn't GPL licensed. Sorry folks.

RE:guy
by Josh on Tue 18th Nov 2003 03:59 UTC

"anybody know a bittorrent link for downloading tier iso's?

i believe their license states that you can distribute your ISO's, but not charge for them."



http://www.logged.org/suprnova/torrents/450/SuSe_Linux_9.0_Complete...

RE: guy
by Josh on Tue 18th Nov 2003 04:01 UTC

whoops forgot to mention that its about 3500mb

Long time SuSE user adding to comments
by Nonya on Tue 18th Nov 2003 04:01 UTC

I just purchased 9.0 this past weekend, as a SuSE user since 6.4 I would like to add the following (My system is a K6-2/500 256 ram).

- KDE3 still is dog slow.
- All my Loki games still work (Myth2, Heroes3 etc).
- Mozilla email encrption on by default (nice touch).
- LSB support is there.
- SCSI/USB/ZIP devices all detected.
- No problems running older software (freecraft, prdoom etc).
- No probems when SuSE converted my boot from LILO to grub.

Enjoy,

H/W Detection
by Josh on Tue 18th Nov 2003 04:05 UTC

Does anyone know if SUSE 9.0 will detect my Radeon 7500 and install the drivers, or will I have to do it manually using DRI? The only distro ive come across that actaully did this was Knoppix 3.3

@JC
by zeb on Tue 18th Nov 2003 07:34 UTC

Actually, I can't say that for sure. But if Fedora includes XFree, then it's not all GPL. XFree isn't GPL licensed. Sorry folks.

Actually, XFree is still Free licensed. The problem with Suse is that it has a proprietary installer, not even open source according the Open Source Initiative group. Novell may one day prevent its redistribution...

linux not ready yet
by Anonymous on Tue 18th Nov 2003 09:08 UTC

i've been using dos and then windows from the early 90's and started to use linux on 1998. While i have to admit that linux has made great progress on the client side, it's still got a lot to go before even thinking of being a real trat for windows, and the new mandrake, with tese bugs, is no exception. Tbe same for suse. I still can't use my lexmark printer on it, while in windows i installed the driver with a click of the mouse.
After 12 years linux still doesnt have a rational way to install/uninstall programs and drivers with a click of the mouse (and for all the raging "linux "purists" out there: we are in 2003, not in the friging 80's...).
And please let's stop this old story about "windows insecurity": it all depends on the user: you just have to set up a good firewall, an antivirus and little else and you are done. I've never had any intrusion problems since i started using windows on the net in 1994.
Sure, the dumb user could have problems but the pc is not and will never be a domestic appliance. It will required always a bit of brain. Sorry about that but it's the reality.
So, up to now I think we have to admit that windows is still light years ahead on the desktop.

Regards

Re: Linux not ready yet
by tc on Tue 18th Nov 2003 10:28 UTC

Yes, it's very frustrating how Lexmark doesn't provide Linux drivers.

That will probably change if Linux gets more users. Right now, hardware vendors see Linux as a hobby OS.

And don't you just love that OpenOffice.org installer?

Re: Anonymous (IP: ---.fastres.net)
by mythought on Tue 18th Nov 2003 11:46 UTC

"windows is still light years ahead"
light years is a distance.
(meters/seconds * seconds = meters

nevertheless, you are right, but the gab is closing faster than
MS would have anticipated. - Better for us consumers. Hopefully
Apple will gain more market shares as well.....

lexmark printer
by Anonymous on Tue 18th Nov 2003 12:31 UTC

For suse 9 you can install the rpm that is produced by the installer (using a command line flag, the gui won't run) for redhat 9 (provided by lexmark). It worked for my Z34/35. You can just start printing afterward. 0 config needed.

Lexmark also provided cups drivers in a tar.gz format, built against ealier versions of glibc. Haven't tried those, but quite possible they will work as well.

Thanks Josh!
by guy on Tue 18th Nov 2003 13:10 UTC

The link didn't work for me, but I searched on supernova and found it....great site there!

http://www.super-serv.com/~supr/torrents/450/SuSe_Linux_9.0_Complet...

everybody get in while the gettings good.

i'm getting about 100k/sec right now, but i'd like to get more.

in bittorrent, the more the merrier!

Proprietary licences and SUSE
by DFJA on Tue 18th Nov 2003 13:11 UTC

I think the main "proprietary" licence in SUSE is for Yast, the excellent configuration tool (that is really at the heart of making SUSE such an easy distribution to set up). I don't have the details with me right now, but if I remember correctly the licence for it allows you to redistribute it as part of the original distribution, but if you make any modifications whatsoever then you _must_ label it as "Yast (modified)" or something similar. I'm sure this is just to clarify that they don't take any legal responsibility for works based on it, nor wish their reputation to be damaged by a possibly broken Yast that isn't labelled as being modified. It's not GPL, but I think it possibly still falls (just about) into the category of "Free Software" according to the FSF definition.

The boxed sets also contain other proprietary software that isn't available in the download edition (coming this weekend) so if you download it, you won't get these. An example is Java, which you will have to download separately from Sun's website (not the most onerous of installations).

Re: Proprietary licences and SUSE
by J. J. Ramsey on Tue 18th Nov 2003 14:30 UTC

"[YaST is] not GPL, but I think it possibly still falls (just about) into the category of "Free Software" according to the FSF definition."

No, it emphatically does not. YaST cannot be sold, not at a profit anyway. Software whose binaries cannot be sold for profit is not Free Software by the FSF definition.

Linux has been ready for a long time
by moooooooo on Tue 18th Nov 2003 15:07 UTC

i just upgraded Mandrake 9.1 to 9.2 and to all you anti-linux people out there it still does everything i need.
Hardware accelerated graphics, great "office" support.
Yes it has a few issues here and there, but so does Windows 2000. Try watching TV on Windows and moving files....the TV stops intermittently..
BTW that doesnt happen on BeOS ;-) and well to quote Sinead O'Connor "Nothing Compares To U" and i am sure Prince was referring to BeOS even though it hadnt been released at that time ;-)
and i am still experimenting with the Mandrake TV apps. Audio output is an issue.

i'd appreciate any comments on the better Linux TV apps out there.

As far as SuSE goes....i installed the Project Mad Hatter preview from Sun which is SuSE based and now called Sun Java Desktop as you probably already know and it is very nice.

It's due to be released in 3-4 weeks...but from what i've read it uses Gnome 2.2 and not 2.4 which is a shame considering 2.6 is not far away....but, it's supported by Sun and comes with StarOffice 7 which IMVHO kicks Cartmans and Bill Gates' arse.
cheers
peter

SuSE Personal
by michele on Tue 18th Nov 2003 16:21 UTC

Hi,
I bought and installad S9.0 Personal both on my laptop (Compaq Evo N610c) and desktop (PIII with pretty common hardware).
On my laptop I have problems with winmodem (no ltmodem*.rpm around for this distro) and ACPI.
Everything's working fine on the desktop, on the other hand...

I've been very disappointed from SuSE decision not to include KPPP on Personal edition, although it is included in Prof. edition: I would expect a home user to have a grater need of a dialer than a corporate user connected to broad band!

Michele

RE: Linux has been ready for a long time
by DeadFish Man on Tue 18th Nov 2003 17:23 UTC

i'd appreciate any comments on the better Linux TV apps out there.

TVTime is the best TV viewer for Linux (and even Windows) IMHO. Check it out: http://tvtime.sourceforge.net/.

However, if you want something more integrated to your desktop , you could try KWinTV for KDE or Zapping for GNOME. I could never make KWinTV works acceptably for me, because of PAL-M issues (Im in Brazil) and something is always wrong with its configuration (even the CVS version, which has a new name that I forgot). This is very sad because Im a KDE-oriented person. :-)

Zapping blends wonderfully with GNOME, although it is one of those remaining GTK1 apps along with XMMS and some others. It is very good and was my choice before TVTime.

And if you dont like any of these, you always can use the good old XawTV.

Cheers,

DeadFish Man

SuSe - been using 9.0 for a Week and...
by bb_matt on Tue 18th Nov 2003 17:42 UTC

I'm not so sure about SuSe anymore.

I was raving about it a few days back, but now it's become a pain in the arse !

My experience is of a very buggy nature.

Example - logging out of Gnome and into KDE and back can often cause my one test machine to hang.

Or on another machine at my office, installing Nvidia drivers can cause a hardware lockup, always resulting in a mandatory fsck which you then have to reboot to check properly !

Frustrating !

The install is stunning, until you take a step back and realise a very important feature - services !

Where's the familiar list of services from Mandrake, Redhat or even Slackware ?

Well, I did find them in the install eventually - I ran the YaSt setup tool and found I could edit "runlevel" daemons, so I decided to enable lisa (KDE windows network browser) and the install hung - I still had CAPS LOCK operational, but nothing would escape me out.

Hard Reboot.

I really want to like this distribution - the sheer volume of software, slick install and functional desktop make it shine.

But in my experience, the shine is sometimes blinding, because frustrating bugs on the platforms I tested on were too frequent.

ftp install
by francisco on Tue 18th Nov 2003 17:54 UTC

is it posible to install suse from ftp without burning a cd or using floppies?

i installed knoppix this way, i opened up the iso, and extracted the kernel and initrd image and loaded it in lilo, worked great

Yast licence
by DFJA on Tue 18th Nov 2003 18:07 UTC

"No, [YaSY] emphatically does not [fall into the category of free software]. YaST cannot be sold, not at a profit anyway. Software whose binaries cannot be sold for profit is not Free Software by the FSF definition."

OK, I've just double checked on www.fsf.org for the definition of free software, and on www.suse.com for the YaST licence. It does on the face of it comply with freedoms 0-3 as defined on www.fsf.org, however you're absolutely correct that it then goes on to say that freedom 3 includes to right to charge a fee without requiring permission from the original author. The YaST license _specifically_ requires this permission from anyone wanting to charge a fee for distribution of YaST or YaST-derived works.

So I stand humbled, it's not Free Software. The reader will have to make their own decision as to whether they are willing to accept this on their systems - I am, but many would not be.

RE: SuSE Personal
by HagerR15 on Tue 18th Nov 2003 18:35 UTC

SuSE handles internet connection with their program "KInternet". When you set up your dial-up or DSL connection in YAST2, you should have a small icon of a power-cord plug on the right side of your panel. When you click on it, it will dial and connect for you.

Suse 9.0 and ohters distro
by Marcos on Tue 18th Nov 2003 20:15 UTC

I have tried Suse 9.0 and it continue having a lot of bugs
and configuration problems and they must upgrade the fonts,
nobody has fonts like Redhat or Fedora or Libranet. Even more Lindows has better fonts than Suse. Gnome always has
problem on Suse, they have not perfected in the same manner
as Redhat. I prefer Redhat/Fedora or Libranet ( Debian )Maybe they will become better when they merge with Novell.
The new Redhat professional workstation is much better, the
only problem is that I do not trust Redhat anymore, one day
they might stop providing network support to the RHPW and turn their back on the consumers, Suse might do the same when Novell takes over, probably Mandrake will do the same,
and their software continue having a lot of bugs. I prefer
Fedora, even that it will be in a constant beta stage, it is real open source., and they will be trying newer technology most of the time,

gimp vs photoshop
by pi on Tue 18th Nov 2003 20:16 UTC

No need to switch back to windows for photoshop, The Gimp is so much better, and free!

RE:gimp vs photoshop
by Anonymous on Tue 18th Nov 2003 21:18 UTC

"The Gimp is so much better, and free!"

But still not usable by a professional. And for a non-geek who just want to correct the red eyes in his photos, Gimp is a gui nightmare. For friends who want to do photo stuff on the computer I recomment Windows, it has the better software for it.

RE: On semi-proprietary Linux
by Finn Nielsen on Tue 18th Nov 2003 21:56 UTC

"I guess when it comes to proprietary Linux Suse is O.K., but I'll be sticking with Fedora and Debian. I know this isn't everyones cup of tea, but if I'm going to be using proprietary software that has strings attached to it I'd just assume stick with Windows. "

In other words, you compare the GPL licensed SuSE Linux with Windows !!! Is that the Bill Gates Windows, that I have heard about?
Is this an underhanded way of starting another distro-war?

About YaST and "proprietary"
by guru on Tue 18th Nov 2003 23:01 UTC

Now, come on, I'm sick of hearing this all the time.
Yes, agreed, YaST is _not_ GPL.
But, saying that it's "proprietary" or "commercial" (replace by any other "bad" word - hell, some even say it's the same as microsoft)...
Get serious for a second. Reading the license, that all seems pretty OpenSource and free to me. Not "free" as in GPL nor "FSF's free", but the only restriction I can see is that you can't resell it with a benefit.
You _can_ redistribute it for free, but you can't have others pay you for YaST, at least not more than costs for the media and such.
The other restriction is that if you make changes to YaST, SUSE wants you to send them a copy of those changes.

I guess they want to secure their distribution's most valuable asset, which in the scope of its license is really fine with me.
You get the sources, you can change it, you can redistribute it for free.

And I'd also would like to add that SUSE is great for enterprise servers as well. It is preconfigured to install Oracle, DB2, BEA Weblogic Server, SAP, and many others. It ships Sun's J2SDK. That's also very important to Linux in the server and professional business, and IMHO SUSE is a lot better than Redhat (but that only implies my very own opinion ;) ).

Konrad Zuse
by Horst Zuse on Tue 18th Nov 2003 23:30 UTC

There may be a connection with my father and SuSE.

see http://home.t-online.de/home/horst.zuse/show_en.html

RE: On semi-proprietary Linux
by Knockturn Alley on Wed 19th Nov 2003 00:30 UTC

"In other words, you compare the GPL licensed SuSE Linux with Windows !!! Is that the Bill Gates Windows, that I have heard about?
Is this an underhanded way of starting another distro-war?"

RE: On semi-proprietary Linux
by Knockturn Alley on Wed 19th Nov 2003 00:32 UTC

Yep. Seems a bit much to be comparing Suse Linux to Windows.

bittorrent
by guy on Wed 19th Nov 2003 01:19 UTC

It worked like a charm.

I now have 5 shiny new suse linux pro 9.0 cds.

Time to install......

re: aussie mirrors from moooooooo
by sikosis on Wed 19th Nov 2003 03:53 UTC

hey mooooooooo - unfortunately, planet mirror only has the 8.3 install of SuSE.

i originally used AARNet's copy which was 8,2 to install at work.

so, thats why I purchased the full 9.0 pro to see if it was better and plus I thought I could install it on many machines.

in fact, there is no license or agreement in the box that says I can't install it on many machines.

RE:guy
by Rob on Wed 19th Nov 2003 13:07 UTC

Do you have single ISOs by FTP or HTTP, not by Bittorrent ?

Suse 9.0 and hsflinmodem driver?
by Joan Leach on Thu 20th Nov 2003 06:54 UTC

I've been trying to test one of these modems for a local computer store that wants to start selling Linux installed PCs. The enclosed CD and Linux driver didn't work with Suse 8.2 or Mandrake 9.1, probably not 9.2 either, couldn't install software from CD1, although I installed from it, I was trying to get Kppp to install so I could test it.

So if you got it to work tell me how, so I can buy it, if I can't get Bit Torrent for Windows to download it to try it, as I don't know if it's in the stores here in Reno, NV.

By the way Suse 8.1 said it couldn't open "/etc/hsf/nvram.bin for writing" when I selected to have it configure it for me. Is that what happened to you? Or did Suse 9.0 have an updated driver built-in? When I checked their hardware database said it wouldn't work with it.

Thanks for your help,
Joan Leach

RE:guy
by Joan Leach on Tue 25th Nov 2003 11:19 UTC

Hi,
Since I didn't get any answer. I went in such of the strange new world of p2p, namely Torrents. I finally found a Windows software that would work to download the Suse 9.0 and found Alcohol 120, but it didn't work. So I got CDRwin, and it didn't work either, but gave me an error in regards to the first line of the cue file. The only lines in the cue file read: FILE "SUSEL90A.BIN" BINARY" then "TRACK 01 MODE1/2352" then "INDEX 01 00:00:00". What is it suppose to say? I have it in my "D:MyTorrentsSuse..." like it was in the above mentioned text, if that helps.

I plan to buy Suse if I find out it behaves better, i.e. can install the boot loader in the partition where I put it and not in the MBR like Suse 8.1 did, my teacher lent me his disks to try. I finally found how one guy who fixed the hsflinmodem problem. He edited a file so it linked to the correct file. Is that how you did it?

I hope I get an answer this time, thanks,
ChiJoan

RE: guy
by Spiritraveller on Thu 27th Nov 2003 01:07 UTC

The only lines in the cue file read: FILE "SUSEL90A.BIN" BINARY" then "TRACK 01 MODE1/2352" then "INDEX 01 00:00:00". What is it suppose to say?

Use Daemon Tools (http://www.daemon-tools.cc/) to mount the bin/cue files and burn them with Alcohol 120%.

There is an explanation here: http://www.daemon-tools.cc/portal/daemonhelp.php?helppage=18#1to1co...