Linked by Eugenia Loli on Wed 28th Jul 2004 22:35 UTC
Microsoft A standalone antivirus product will be built from tools the company inherited through its 2003 acquisitions of GeCad and Pelican Software, according to a report published in CNET News.com's sister publication, ZDNet France, citing the technical head of Microsoft's security project in that country.
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smell more lawsuits?
by Matt S. on Wed 28th Jul 2004 23:20 UTC

Um, should Microsoft really be developing their own Anti-Virus software, and have it "integrated" into the Windows operating system so much that removing it would cause the OS to crash.

Doesn't all this kinda sound familiar - Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer?

Personally I think Microsoft wants to step on everybodies toes! Norton and those players aren't going to be very happy when Microsoft introduces their own anti-virus software in Windows operating systems. Just another market Microsoft will dominate in. But would you really trust Microsoft with Anti-virus, their track record isn't the greatest.

Good
by bullethead on Wed 28th Jul 2004 23:22 UTC

This is good news. I just hope it gets good enough to be included with Windows Longhorn (that is if there will even be virii for Longhorn). Who knows?

RE:  smell more lawsuits?
by rain on Wed 28th Jul 2004 23:27 UTC

The article just said that it will be a standalone product.
They should have done this a long time ago. Now the anti-virus market has grown pretty big and several companies will be badly hurt by this.
But I think they are doing the right thing by selling it seperately. However, I suspect that they will give the OEMs a good deal and make them include it anyway. The result will be the same but MS will have a better chance to defend themselves in court.

its an obvious admission from M$...
by jsg on Wed 28th Jul 2004 23:41 UTC

That they can't fix their own system. That's why they bought an antivirus company.

Of course, M$ is trying to hit two birds with one stone: fixing/protecting their OS at the same time earn from it.

Will you trust an antivirus product from the company that produces an OS that seem to have a chronic illness?

Re: Can you say.....
by Anonymous on Wed 28th Jul 2004 23:42 UTC

That comment may be "pending review" but he is correct. A profitable anti-virus business would give Microsoft even less reason fix the problem.

Microsofts actual customers
by Zenja on Wed 28th Jul 2004 23:52 UTC

People must constantly be reminded that Microsofts core customers are hardware bundlers (Dell, HewlettPackard etc) and coorporate IT officers. The hardware manufacturers want people to upgrade to newer boxes (more $$$), and coorporate execs want easy to administer boxes (less viruses). The average user isn't Microsofts customer at all.

So yes, it makes sense that Microsoft will include a build in virus checker, cause thats what its customers want. Us users who use Windows will have an even slower machine...

There are other options people, but on this website thats more than obvious.

mistake
by eric on Thu 29th Jul 2004 00:01 UTC

i said zonealarm. zonealarm is a firewall.

They still needed a good firewall.

Hotmail
by Russian Guy on Thu 29th Jul 2004 00:31 UTC

Before conspiracy theorists had their field day, did anyone notice that Microsoft Hotmail offers Anti-virus protection and spam filtering? For free, mind you.

Here it is, from Microsoft:

By using MSN Hotmail, you have the only free global e-mail service to both scan and clean incoming and outgoing e-mail for viruses and worms before they can enter your inbox and risk infecting your PC.

In addition, MSN continues to heavily invest in tools and technologies to help protect your e-mail from spam as well as viruses and worms. Today, MSN Hotmail blocks about 95 percent of incoming junk e-mail, or nearly 3 billion pieces of spam daily from ever reaching inboxes.

---------------

By the way, not only Microsoft does it. My ISP which is not affiliated with Microsoft does it too. For free.

As a result, my Inbox gets may be just one spam email a week, and no viruses/worms whatsoever.

Your ISP does not offer such service? Well, bad for you. Find one that does. Not necessarily Hotmail.

RE: @ Matt S.
by Matthew on Thu 29th Jul 2004 00:47 UTC

"Just another market Microsoft will dominate in."

just another? microsoft is only dominant at desktop operating systems and possibly office software. they don't have a monopol over media players, servers,...
get your facts straight. it's like whatever microsofts wants to do people get afraid they'll dominate it. and somehow people try to forget that other compaines like adobe have almost complete monopol over image proccesing software, video compositing and video editing software,... and still selling it twice the price as (better) compatitive software (khm, combustion).

personally i think only users will benefit from this. more competition is always good and as we can see it won't be integrated within the os they must REALLY make something good (better than competition) for people to buy it.

@ Matthew
by Matt S. on Thu 29th Jul 2004 03:03 UTC

Yes just another market for them to dominate . . . . since you already listed two, I believe my statement was correct. The hold the hand of desktop and office software, but much more as well. Why you think they don't hold the market with Windows Media Player is beyond me! This is the reason why Microsoft is in so much hot water, Media Player and Internet Explorer.

The article may state a stand alone anti-virus application, but they're just going to implement it into the OS eithe way. But again, who the heck is going to trust microsoft with anti-virus.

Also, how can you say Adobe holds a complete monopoly? Have you ever heard of Qark Express, Macromedia, Final Cut Pro. There's too much out there to say adobe holds complete control, and even that company is starting to lose it's grip.

The only way people will benefit is to learn about viruses and use Norton a trusted anti-virus company and a respected one. I would not trust or respect Microsoft in this area at all!

WooHoo!
by the_trapper on Thu 29th Jul 2004 03:24 UTC

I'm actually kind of looking forward to this, maybe it will make the entrenched players (Norton and McAfee) wake up, and provide some real innovation instead of new flashy candy-coated resource gobbling interfaces. Name one truly amazing innovative feature in the anti-virus world since 1998? Maybe this will do for Norton and McAfee what .NET has done for Java...kicked them in their lazy asses.

Additionally, I hardly think Microsoft is going to take the A-V business by storm overnight. First of all, there are probably a lot of organizations out there who wouldn't dream of trusting their machines to an unproven virus scanner. Secondly, cross-platform is becoming important once again. I doubt this software is going to run on Mac OS X, Linux, or possibly even "early" versions of Windows, such as NT 4.0 and the 9X/Me line. This is going to take several years to mature.

Welcome to the A-V business Microsoft! There's definitely room for you.

v Windows the virus has now a anti virus ?
by Anonymous on Thu 29th Jul 2004 03:41 UTC
RE: WooHoo!
by Ian on Thu 29th Jul 2004 04:06 UTC

'm actually kind of looking forward to this, maybe it will make the entrenched players (Norton and McAfee) wake up, and provide some real innovation instead of new flashy candy-coated resource gobbling interfaces. Name one truly amazing innovative feature in the anti-virus world since 1998?

Anti Virus software is a early reaction system and a cleaning tool. You can't protect against a virus that hasn't been created yet. What sort of innovation is needed? Maybe a lighter scanning utility which sucks less resources, but that's all I can think of(my brain is shot tonight though).

At work we use Netware, which doesn't really have any virus issues, with gwava loaded on our email server to kill email viruses before they even get to our user's mailboxes. Our desktops run McAfee enterprise vscan which doesn't have a fancy interface like the home version. We pull defs from ftp every week when they are updated by NAI. We plan on pushing the virus defs out to our workstations using Novell's Zenworks to give our internet connection a break.

I'm not sure how a microsoft virus scanner would help here. I rather see Microsoft work on the security of their operating system rather than make a utility which only works when a virus is already out in the "wild", attacking machines.

Re: misc
by Anonymous on Thu 29th Jul 2004 04:19 UTC

Um, should Microsoft really be developing their own Anti-Virus software, and have it "integrated" into the Windows operating system so much that removing it would cause the OS to crash.

Pure speculation.

That they can't fix their own system. That's why they bought an antivirus company.

You think a platform as popular as Windows will ever be free from the threat of viruses? It is impossible to prevent every possible virus attack out there. Get real. Also, brush up on economics. Companies leverage existing technology all the time.

My thoughts on Viruses
by Roberto J. Dohnert on Thu 29th Jul 2004 04:35 UTC

Viruses are going to be around for awhile. Viruses arent a problem unless users execute them. No system is safe from viruses, not UNIX not Linux not the Mac OS. There is no perfect system and if Linux becomes, magically, the #1 OS in the world the viruses will follow. Just because you get a percievably and much disputed "more secure system" it is foolish to think that virus writers and other Malware creators will pick up their bags and go home and never write viruses or Malware again to think so just shows the shortsightedness and stupidity of some people. They will just overcome and adapt. I dont blame Microsoft for the viruses of the world, Microsoft doesnt write them and Microsoft doesnt pay people to write them. To blame Microsoft for viruses is like trying to blame Ford if someone buys a car and starts mowing people down in the middle of the street or like trying to blame Wilson if someone buys a baseball bat and proceeds to beat up people with it. Microsoft is not responsible for the actions of users. Microsoft has made great strides in improving their security and what they have done with SP2 thus far is really outstanding. Security lies with the user, Linux has been hacked and most versions of UNIX have been hacked, they are not unbreakable systems and yes they have vulnerabilities too.

The first shoe already dropped when they bought RAV
by Anonymous on Thu 29th Jul 2004 04:54 UTC

Microsoft has already acted like a monopoly by purchasing RAV a while back. RAV was an excellent choice for an antivirus system for Linux mail servers. Right after Microsoft bought RAV they announced that they would no longer support RAV for Linux. RAV was quite popular for Linux mail servers and this act by Microsoft was anti-competitive. It forced many to have to shift to other products, my network was one.
The second shoe will eventually drop as they not only release a Microsoft branded version of RAV for Windows but gradually we will see it become an inseparable (cough cough) part of some future version of Windows.
So once again we will see a number of companies, Symantec, McAfee, etc, lose marketshare and perhaps cease to exist because of Microsoft's illegal and unethical bundling tactics.
Yet some of you will STILL claim this is ok and you just can't wait for Microsoft to do this.
Sad, really sad.

@ Russian Guy
by Dave Pastern on Thu 29th Jul 2004 04:57 UTC

Ahh yes. Hotmail anti virus detection. yes it does offer it, but it's at a basic level. If you want premium protection you have to pay for their special service. Your inbox gets one spam a week? Lucky you. My hotmail accounts (3 of them) aren't quite so lucky. One gets very little. Another one is average. The newest one, never even used to send mails out, nor has it even been used in forums etc, nor does anyone else other than myself know the actual address gets tonnes of emails. Just because you're sitting pretty doesn't mean others aren't.

Dave W Pastern

v re: @ matthew
by Dave Pastern on Thu 29th Jul 2004 05:11 UTC
v They should include it in the OS.
by http://www.forcefed.net on Thu 29th Jul 2004 05:31 UTC
weary about this one...
by Mike on Thu 29th Jul 2004 05:50 UTC

Microsoft builds so many security holes/exploits into their OS and software, and they can't even seem to keep up with the patchwork (how long have we waited for xpSP2?)... there have been holes just sitting around, waiting to be fixed. And, based on past experience, these new *fixes* will only open up security issues somewhere else....

How can you trust this company to maintain a security/antivirus program?!

Shame
by Wolf on Thu 29th Jul 2004 06:03 UTC

Its a shame for a company who develops OS to make an anti-virus software too. Damn it make your OS better.

Sometime i hate these stupid things Microsoft do.

v You Fucking Fail it
by Jim on Thu 29th Jul 2004 06:04 UTC
RE: They should include it in the OS.
by rain on Thu 29th Jul 2004 06:45 UTC

Why should users have to pay out an extra $50 a year on AV software just to keep the machine operating? M$ should have encoded a built-in AV along time ago.

Well, you can either pay the money, or get a free virus scanner, or even better (chock and horror) learn how to use your computer.

If people used a secure E-mail client, and stopped clicking attachments that they didn't ask for, and stopped downloading 1001 free smileys then viruses and spyware would be pretty much non existant.
They have no-one to blame but themselves.

Also, they can't include it in the OS unless they want to go to court again. However, the OEMs can.

It's just sad...
by Anonymous on Thu 29th Jul 2004 08:54 UTC

Man, what short memories people have. You do remember that MSDOS came with anti-virus software? ;)

Security measures
by Mr. Pissed on Thu 29th Jul 2004 11:47 UTC

There's a few MS schills on this forum, talking about how great it is, to have all this virus protection software, and a vigilant ISP's putting the whammy on viruses.

I don't use Windows, I still get spam, but because of their good work, I don't get most of my real email.

I have people phoning me all the time, asking whether or not I got their message, because they never heard back from me.

"Thanks alot MS, for making email a 50% chance, and for making all email clients equally unreliable!"


M$ to produce "stand alone" AV product
by DLazlo on Thu 29th Jul 2004 12:51 UTC

Err, wasn't that what RAV from GeCAD already was? One of the better cross-platform AV tools too.
Oh yea, I forgot, Bill had to buy it to help squash that nasty "cross platform" virus. Now it will only be offered to work where "He" wants it to. By the way, when GeCAD was bought out, only 'direct' sales were stopped, ie: online sales to home and small business users. If you were large enough or deep enough in the M$ camp you could still get some of the offerings. I'm not sure of the situation anymore, as my news source has gone elsewhere looking for work.

RAV integrated well with Communigate Pro and several similar products, and sales had recently seen a large 'spike' in the month's before the aquissition. Too bad for us all

for all of hotmail users
by Jernej on Thu 29th Jul 2004 12:52 UTC

hotmail is not the only free mail on the net.

why create new hotmail accounts and complain, if you create a new account go to a different site (netscape, yahoo, email, ...)

the smaller the userbase of that site the better. Less spam, becuse email addresses aren't randomly probed by spamers.

Pelican Software!?
by VPC User on Thu 29th Jul 2004 13:53 UTC

Is this the same company that used to develop apps for the Psion range of PDAs?

@Donhert
by rockwell on Thu 29th Jul 2004 15:01 UTC

//Linux has been hacked and most versions of UNIX have been hacked, they are not unbreakable systems and yes they have vulnerabilities too.//

Yah, but not nearly as often as Windows. Nor as easily.

RE: My thoughts on Viruses
by Err on Thu 29th Jul 2004 16:22 UTC

...Just because you get a percievably and much disputed "more secure system" it is foolish to think that virus writers and other Malware creators will pick up their bags and go home and never write viruses or Malware again to think so just shows the shortsightedness and stupidity of some people...

Actually this perception would become part of the problem. People, unless they've been living in a bubble without newspapers, know that Windows viruses/trojans exist and the more tech conscious ones take preventative measures (Antivirus/firewall etc).

If there is mass adoption of Linux (Or some other *nix) then the virus/trojan writers get a nice piece of social engineering for free. Namely the idea that Linux is totally secure, an idea which a minority of over-zealous Linux advocates have been ramming down our throats for some time now.

After that you end up with a similar situation to a mother insisting that she drives her offspring to school in an SUV because it "feels" safer. Despite the fact that it really isn't.

Dumb Windows users will be dumb Linux users, and vice versa.

I won't get it.
by Nicholas James on Thu 29th Jul 2004 17:00 UTC

I mean really will you? MS makers of the holiest OS ever, making a anti-virus. This is the meaning of irony, it is even kind of funny. I still use windows, but only for games.

@Mr.Pissed
by The Shoe on Thu 29th Jul 2004 18:13 UTC

There's a few MS schills on this forum, talking about how great it is, to have all this virus protection software, and a vigilant ISP's putting the whammy on viruses.

I don't use Windows, I still get spam, but because of their good work, I don't get most of my real email.

I have people phoning me all the time, asking whether or not I got their message, because they never heard back from me.

"Thanks alot MS, for making email a 50% chance, and for making all email clients equally unreliable!"


What are you doing using Hotmail for client communication. MS isn't at fault for your clients' email getting tossed, YOU'RE at fault for using their service to communicate with CLIENTS of all people! Pull your head out of your butt for cryin out loud..

As for MS monopolizing the AV market.. I hardly think that will happen. You guys are forgetting about CAI, one of the largest computer software companies around; The makers of InoculateIT. The big 3 (CAI,SYM,NAI) are going no-where soon.

....the have to
by Bas on Thu 29th Jul 2004 19:29 UTC


Now they have to make sure that their VirusScan will actually sell. How? Just by keeping Windows in bad health and open to virusses.....its getting scarry.

Hmm
by Al on Thu 29th Jul 2004 19:47 UTC

We have things like Windows Movie Maker installed with the OS(anybody use this?) but you have to go out & buy Anti-Virus software seperately?

Having a company that sells an OS marketing AV software too is a conflict in interests IMV.

AV scaning
by GP on Thu 29th Jul 2004 20:26 UTC

I beleave that MS's AV will scan just as good as the other AV scanners do out there, you have to remember that they all use the same hooks in the syetem that MS will be using also, I also beleave that MS opened up these API's months ago to AV makers etc.

This will probably be cheap and an option for OEM's and people to d/l and use, maybe like $10 or $20 like the PLus packs MS sells online etc. it won't be a part of the OS, and even if it is like they said for longhorn, it will be basic, how their firewall is , though, all they would really have to do is make it an option to install or not when you install Windows from now on so they don't get into trouble again. Giving you the option to have it or use something else is the best way to go about this whole thing.

@ Dave Pastern
by Russian Guy on Fri 30th Jul 2004 00:52 UTC

"Ahh yes. Hotmail anti virus detection. yes it does offer it, but it's at a basic level."

Dave, there is no basic or premium email virus detection. Don't fall for marketing speak. Email virus protection either provided, or not.

Hotmail does it. Emails carrying virus attachments are not delivered to user mailbox. My ISP does the same.

What non-'basic' features do you miss?

I am educated enough not to open strange attachments from unknown people, and I have NAV on my PC, but I was getting annoyed by all these emails sent by 3 months old viruses hitting my computer with their infectious attachments.

Not any more. They are gone.

Of course, no solution is 100%, after all first comes virus- then antivirus. Still, I don't have to face old virus crap sent to me from infected computers.

"Your inbox gets one spam a week? Lucky you. My hotmail accounts (3 of them) aren't quite so lucky. "

I said: Inbox. I do receive more spam than that, but it all goes to Junk Mail folder.

As with any system, RTFM is strongly recommended. You should log in www.hotmail.com and set spam filtering to proper for you level. Mine is set to medium (Enhanced): I do receive all emails, but spam is filtered more strictly.

I go fishing for good emails into my Junk folder once a day or even less often. Occasionally, a good email ends there- then I train Hotmail to treat emails from that person as non-spam. How? RTFM- it is as easy as almost everything Microsoft offers to end user.

After a week of using the system, I am getting one spam per day into Inbox, and about one good email a week to Junk. Rest is properly sorted.

Before, it was very annoying to scroll through each email in Inbox, deleting crap and leaving good stuff. Now I just let that crap die in Junk folder where it is deleted automatically.

"Just because you're sitting pretty doesn't mean others aren't. "

That is why others should use ISPs that kill virus infected emails and help user filter SPAM. Not necessarliy Hotmail. But if you use Hotmail, you should know how to use it.


After all, didn't people complain Microsoft should do something about email viruses and spam? So it did.

That is very strong signal to the industry. Expect more ISP following soon: it is competitive advantage.

Email virus writes suddenly going to face new reality. Until now, they dealt with sloppy home users, unwilling or not capable of setting and properly managing anti-virus software on their computers.

Now these virus writers have to face experienced administrators in computer centres, where email is processed. These administrators apply new antivirus updates promptly.

A window of opportunity for virus writers just shrinked from few months to half a day.

That is not all: if email virus is unleashed in China or Russia, by the time people in North America wake up at the morning or come home at the evening, that virus is already analyzed and antivirus systems are updated.
Thanks to the time zones difference, now with less than 12 hours window of opportunity it would be extremely hard to infect the world by email virus.

As for people who come from vacations or long business trips- they shall fear no more, email they retrieve which was collected during their absence is sanitized. Does not matter if they have antivirus or if it managed to update signatures before email was downloaded.

Few months from now we would wonder about times when anti-virus filtering was not part of standard email service provided by an ISP.

I already have a version
by ash on Fri 30th Jul 2004 01:02 UTC

Control Panel->Add remove programs->Microsoft Outlook

M$
by who cares who i am on Fri 30th Jul 2004 04:10 UTC

M$ has a semi decent fire wall its called sp2 its still in beta but its alot better then that in sp1 or just with xp as for anti virus get a real fire wall and real antivirus software m$ took 3 months to fix a whole that mozilla fixed in a day open sorce all the way i dont worry about viruses because i have everything i need backed up on a comp not hooked to the internet

The Shoe
by Mr. Pissed on Fri 30th Jul 2004 13:24 UTC

"What are you doing using Hotmail for client communication. MS isn't at fault for your clients' email getting tossed, YOU'RE at fault for using their service to communicate with CLIENTS of all people! Pull your head out of your butt for cryin out loud."

Where did I say that I use any online mail service like Hotmail?
My ISP is the local cable company. I pay for the account.
More than half my email never arrives, because of their vigilant security practices.

"Stick your head back in your butt."

The Shoe
by Mr. Pissed on Fri 30th Jul 2004 13:38 UTC

P.S.

As far as I'm aware, Outlook, Eudora, Safari, etc..., are email clients.
Hotmail and others, are email services, or accounts.

@ Mr.pissed
by The Shoe on Fri 30th Jul 2004 15:57 UTC

"Thanks alot MS, for making email a 50% chance, and for making all email clients equally unreliable!"

This is why I thought you were using Hotmail to email your contacts. If your ISP is your cable company, then why are you referencing MS?

M$
by who cares who i am on Sat 31st Jul 2004 14:55 UTC

stop whining about email its not there fault if they dont make it retreave stuff from other serrves its not like they have to its a way to incourge people to use there service a client is just like thunderbird,outlook,outlook express,ect a service is hotmail yahoo gmail ect