Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 19th Jul 2005 19:16 UTC, submitted by Chris Bergeron
Linux Today at PCBurn we're taking a look at Mark G. Sobell's "A Practical Guide to Linux Commands, Editors, and Shell Programming". It aims to be a complete learning and reference guide to the Linux shell. We'll take a look at the salient points that a reference and teaching book should cover and see how "A Practical Guide..." addresses them.
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by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 00:34 UTC
linux commands
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 01:01 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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the linux command line in my opinion is what is bringing linux down from ever beating windows in the os wars. linux needs to totaly get away from the command line.compiling software sucks its boring.and the linux command line/console sucks.linux needs to be exactly like windows easy to use and great hardware plug and play support and no using command line to install software.but still have the great security that linux has right now.even the easy to use linux distros xandros linspire etc are still to hard to install software and hardware drivers for the average pc user

Reply Score: 0

RE: linux commands
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 01:34 UTC in reply to "linux commands"
Anonymous Member since:
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the linux command line in my opinion is what is bringing linux down from ever beating windows in the os wars.

OK. [steps away] Whatever you say man. [steps further away] It's cool! [runs]

Reply Score: 2

usability in the command line
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 03:12 UTC
Anonymous
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i think that some problems with command lines in unixes are:

1.- are ugly: at least there some colors by file type, but plain text is good to enter commands but is bad to show data. this can be solved with a new console that mixes graphics and commands, like a chat program.

2.- some bash commands may be familiar to english speaker but there is no translated versions for others countries (i think that the WHOLE system, kernel mesages even, must be translated). this is hard to solve, at least can be a basic list of commands translated.

3.- some standar, if there are standar GUI libraries, why not standar command-line libraries?

(excuse my english)

Reply Score: 0

whoah...
by morgoth on Wed 20th Jul 2005 03:19 UTC
morgoth
Member since:
2005-07-08

Hang on a moment. I don't remember hearing people bitching about using DOS commands.

The real problem is, people want to use a computer, but they don't want to learn how to use it.

A command, is a command. There are certain "modern words" that never get translated when going into another language, they just retain their "English" name.

This particular comment:

the linux command line in my opinion is what is bringing linux down from ever beating windows in the os wars.

Really ires myself. The graphical user interfaces in Linux are pretty damn good these days, in most instances you don't have to touch a console. Windows isn't any better, there are some things that you have to do via the command line as well. Wanna release your IP address? start > run > cmd > ipconfig /release - I don't believe that there's a GUI version of that available. There are many other things that you can only do from DOS with Windows, even Windows XP. Your argument is old, moot and rather rude.

Dave

Reply Score: 4

RE: whoah...
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 06:52 UTC in reply to "whoah..."
Anonymous Member since:
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If my memory serves me right, actually, at leat in Windows 98 there was GUI for IP release/renew, but to get to it you'd have still use the command line or look for the executable in c:windows ( I think ). The name was something like winipcfg ... or in that direction ;) )

iges.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: whoah...
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 19:42 UTC in reply to "RE: whoah..."
Anonymous Member since:
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If my memory serves me right, actually, at leat in Windows 98 there was GUI for IP release/renew, but to get to it you'd have still use the command line or look for the executable in c:windows ( I think ). The name was something like winipcfg ... or in that direction
winpicfg is only available in Windows 9x. There is no GUI IP tool that ships with Windows NT/2K/XP/2003.

If you want to renew your IP in XP, you need to either drop to a cmd shell (you don't use command.com in XP unless you are braindead) and run "ipconfig /release" and "ipconfig /renew".

There's a graphical frontend available online called ntipcfg or something similar, but it's nowhere near as useful as winipcfg.

Reply Score: 0

RE: whoah...
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 13:38 UTC in reply to "whoah..."
Anonymous Member since:
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>>>Hang on a moment. I don't remember hearing people bitching about using DOS commands<<<

Ok, today is going to be a great day after all -- I've had my big belly laugh!

Complaining about DOS was ALL the press did, until Windows. But not from me, I like it and still use it. I do NOT like the *nix cmd line, in particular the syntax handling of cmd line launched *nix programs/cmds -- this is yet another area where *nix needs to get MORE FLEXIBLE. "The one and only way to type it that works" approach is not good enough, although it does allow the developer to move on to his next project.

As a "for example", compare pkzip syntax to tar. pkzip (and pkarc) were the standard for years, maybe decades. Even after PK departed (RIP), we all still use pkzip format files because pkzip became that entrenched. tar is the biggest piece of crap utility I have ever been forced to use. It is frankly almost impossible to use. And it doesn't even compress the file -- *nix puts you through another utility suite (with equally nasty cmd line syntax) to do that.

<flame shield on>

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: whoah...
by Anonymous on Thu 21st Jul 2005 06:11 UTC in reply to "RE: whoah..."
Anonymous Member since:
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"And it doesn't even compress the file -- *nix puts you through another utility suite (with equally nasty cmd line syntax) to do that."

GNU/tar:

tar zcvf example.tar.gz /example
tar jcvf example.tar.bz /example

Standard UNIX

tar cfv - /example|compress > example.tar.Z

Please get a clue

Reply Score: 0

Hi
by uday on Wed 20th Jul 2005 05:36 UTC
uday
Member since:
2005-07-08

The book speaks about 'Practical Guide to Linux Commands, Editors, and Shell Programming'. And the thread is discussing about Linux being more intimate to GUI. We have had lot of discussions along this direction. So why one more ?

Reply Score: 1

Practical?
by crashback on Wed 20th Jul 2005 05:42 UTC
crashback
Member since:
2005-07-12

I think I'm going to pick this book up in a couple days. I've been reading the o'reilly book "Classic Shell Scripting" for a couple weeks, and I've found it to be about as far as it gets from practical, considering the layout of the information contained within.

I hope this book can deliver on that title, because if it does it would be a big help to a relative newbie like me.

Reply Score: 1

the book that is really needed
by pravda on Wed 20th Jul 2005 06:30 UTC
pravda
Member since:
2005-07-06

"Installing Applications on Linux".

With examples for all the popular (but nearly completely incompatible) flavors/distros/meta-distros of Linux.

Using a command line is no big deal. But having to use command line and having different commands and different directories for each edition/version/incantation of Linux is just too much of a time waster.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on whether you are the publisher or the book purchaser, it would likely be necessary to have "Installing Applications on SuSE Linux", "Installing Applications on Red Hat", etc, etc. Maybe even sub-books based on what else is installed on what particular modulus of Linux is being used.

Reply Score: 1

Dark_Knight Member since:
2005-07-10

Pravada,

Using Linux commands in the terminal is definately a powerful and useful tool especially in large networks. Though most end users especially in the home environment would be satisfied to use GUI tools such as YaST Control Center, Mandrake Control Center, etc which offer a familiar and user friendly GUI for former Windows users.

As for your comment about being necessary for authors to write books specific to distributions that's already being done. Majority of which are for Red Hat Linux, SuSE Linux and Fedora Linux. Though just to clarify the Linux commands are identical for the RPM based distributions you mentioned partly due to package management and also the LSB certification process http://www.linuxbase.org/ So even though the distributions offered by each developer may not offer all the same packages (applications) or look identical the underlying command structure is the same. A user can then move from SuSE Linux to Mandrake Linux to Red Hat Linux with out much issue and with out the need to read a thick manual.

Reply Score: 1

It's about control
by Angryanderson on Wed 20th Jul 2005 07:28 UTC
Angryanderson
Member since:
2005-07-11

The command line doesn't take anything away from the GUI, it's an alternative user interface that gives users more power and control over their system. For some unknown reason many users seem to be terrified of the CLI but there's really no reason to be. If a 1008 pages book seems to be too much, you can start from here:

http://www.linuxcommand.org/index.php

Reply Score: 3

MAC OS X
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 08:03 UTC
Anonymous
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is the best example of a unix-based os with a genius GUI, also for administration. why can't this be done so easy with linux???

Reply Score: 0

RE: linux commands
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 12:28 UTC
Anonymous
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Little do you know. MS is now bragging for about two years about how their own command line for future Windows versions will be even better than the ones currently employed in Unix/Linux systems... By your logic, this must not ever happen or else MS is doomed...

Reply Score: 0

peeple scare me.
by Anonymous on Wed 20th Jul 2005 12:41 UTC
Anonymous
Member since:
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ack. please learn how to OPERATE yur OS, not just click through it. back to the car examples, how many peeple do u know can drive a car, but dont hav a clue how to really controll their own vehicle. think about that next time yur on an interstate doin 900Kb/s.

Reply Score: 0