Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 6th Apr 2006 20:49 UTC
Zeta Heise, an influential German tech website, stirred the BeOS community up today by reporting that YellowTAB filed for bankruptcy [German]-- however, this bankruptcy was not filed from within YellowTAB, but by a 3rd party, possibly to damage YellowTAB. This news quickly spread accross BeOS related websites, but none of them could confirm the story. I emailed Bernd Korz, YellowTAB's CEO, and he confirmed that indeed someone from outside the company filed for bankruptcy, but that YellowTAB is in fact not bankrupt. Bernd could not disclose full details yet, as the company was still discussing this with its lawyers. Bernd did confirm that within a few days, the company will release an official statement concerning the issue.
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From outside the company
by Tyr. on Thu 6th Apr 2006 21:49 UTC
Tyr.
Member since:
2005-07-06

From outside the company so probably a discontented supplier (or retailer) of some sort who claims not to have been paid. From what I can make out from the German text an investigation by the court will now run for 4 months to see if Yellowtab is indeed unable to pay their bills. Heise also claims their bankaccount has been frozen.

Edit: yeah it's a quarter so 3 months

Edited 2006-04-06 21:56

Reply Score: 2

RE: From outside the company
by fye. on Thu 6th Apr 2006 21:55 UTC in reply to "From outside the company"
fye. Member since:
2005-08-23

Yeah, I guess it's pretty much like that. One thing though, it's a quarter year, not four months (vierteljahr).

Edited 2006-04-06 21:56

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: From outside the company
by Tyr. on Thu 6th Apr 2006 21:58 UTC in reply to "RE: From outside the company"
Tyr. Member since:
2005-07-06

I was struggling with the German - mein Deutsch ist furchtbar - so much so I lost my ability to count :-)

Reply Score: 1

v RE[2]: From outside the company
by Yomama on Fri 7th Apr 2006 01:02 UTC in reply to "RE: From outside the company"
v hmm
by Anonymous Coward on Thu 6th Apr 2006 22:04 UTC
RE: hmm
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 6th Apr 2006 22:07 UTC in reply to "hmm"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Because months, weeks, and days and such are based on nature, and not on set standards. We can't just change how long it takes for the moon to complete a cycle, or how long it takes the earth to make a 360, or how long it takes the earth to circle the sun ;) .

Back on topic now. Ahem.

Reply Score: 5

v RE[2]: hmm
by r2d2d3d4d5 on Thu 6th Apr 2006 22:32 UTC in reply to "RE: hmm"
RE[3]: hmm
by Tyr. on Fri 7th Apr 2006 00:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: hmm"
Tyr. Member since:
2005-07-06

Finally: this is pretty low. I hope it's not always this easy to fake someone's bankruptcy filing otherwise I can see the potential for a lot of (other) harm.

It's not faked. Details are sketchy but a third party (a creditor ?) presumably filed a complaint at the court, which led the court to declare bunkrupcy (as opposed to Yellowtab filing for bankrupcy). Now Yellowtab has to prove it is solvent, able to pay it's bills, or they will be forced into liquidation, selling of their assets to pay their creditors. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

I hope Bernd makes a statement sooner rather than later, this confusion can't be good for business.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: hmm
by Ronald Vos on Fri 7th Apr 2006 00:49 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: hmm"
Ronald Vos Member since:
2005-07-06

Thanks Tyr, that seems possible.

I was thinking it might have had something to do with the Japanese company that distributed Zeta but didn't pay for their bills getting angry and vengeance or something. Guess not.

Reply Score: 1

RE: hmm
by Tyr. on Thu 6th Apr 2006 22:09 UTC in reply to "hmm"
Tyr. Member since:
2005-07-06

Why don't countries that use the metric system create a metric year? (10 months or 100 weeks or something)

Horribly off-topic but the French revolution had a 10 month calendar and 10 day "weeks" or decades. They also had a 10 hour clock I believe. We'd probably be using it now if it weren't for Waterloo.

BTW if you want to know more check out http://www.decimaltime.hynes.net/links.html

Edited 2006-04-06 22:20

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: hmm
by cutterjohn on Fri 7th Apr 2006 13:53 UTC in reply to "RE: hmm"
cutterjohn Member since:
2006-01-28

Just to drag this further off topic for a second:

The French calendar apparently still DID have 12 months, but it DID use 10 day "weeks", and a 10 hour clock as a quick perusal of any of the links would have shown.

Additionally the comment re: Waterloo and it's retention is purely ridiculous as Napoleon abolished the system a mere 13 years after it's adoption.

In any event a decimal calendar/timekeeping system(ok maybe the timekeeping could be made to work) just doesn't work, and wouldn't be worth the expense for whatever perceived value(?! can't think of anything valuable from it myself as the total number of days in the year aren't divisible by 10 to begin with) wouldn't be worth it.

Bankruptcy: Weren't there some developers a while(years?) back that complained about not being paid? Could it have been something like that? (I never knew that someone outside of a company could file for bankruptcy for them, or is that a German/European feature?)

Reply Score: 0

v RE[2]: hmm
by null_pointer_us on Fri 7th Apr 2006 19:54 UTC in reply to "RE: hmm"
v RE: hmm
by fxer on Thu 6th Apr 2006 23:19 UTC in reply to "hmm"
v RE: hmm
by Celerate on Thu 6th Apr 2006 23:21 UTC in reply to "hmm"
RE[2]: hmm
by AndyJ on Fri 7th Apr 2006 05:02 UTC in reply to "RE: hmm"
AndyJ Member since:
2005-06-30

"The imperial system of measurement was changed for the sake of science."

Or perhaps more for people not clever enough to figure 3 feet in a yard, 1760 yards in a mile, etc. I grew up in school in England knowing that there are 12 pence in a shilling, 20 shillings in a pound (therefore 240 pence in a pound). Seemed fine to me but then the metric nazis came and forced us all to change! ;-) OK still off topic and VERY much a tongue-in-cheek comment.

Regarding the matter under discussion (YellowTab), I believe that in the UK it was/is possible for a company (or individual) owed money by another company and not receiving it, to begin by using a lawyers letter to the non-paying company suggesting that their non-payment might be due to insolvency and that if payment did not follow swiftly insolvency action would be taken. With companies keen to avoid the kind of situation described in this case, it was often a good way to push bad payers to do the decent thing.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: hmm
by StephenBeDoper on Fri 7th Apr 2006 20:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: hmm"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Or perhaps more for people not clever enough to figure 3 feet in a yard, 1760 yards in a mile, etc. I grew up in school in England knowing that there are 12 pence in a shilling, 20 shillings in a pound (therefore 240 pence in a pound).

That's a testament to masochism, not cleverness.

Reply Score: 2

About BeOS
by Jody on Thu 6th Apr 2006 22:18 UTC
Jody
Member since:
2005-06-30

It is my understanding that BeOS was owned by Palm Source who was purchased by ACCESS.

Does ACCESS even know they own BeOS now? I wonder if they even have the original BeOS source code tucked away somewhere or the last copies of the source code have vanished.

I would bet that since they aquired Palm Source nobody has even contacted them about the BeOS source code.

They might be interested in selling it to the community for a marginal fee or maybe just giving it away for the publicity it would generate.

Reply Score: 3

RE: About BeOS
by ThanhLy on Fri 7th Apr 2006 19:31 UTC in reply to "About BeOS"
ThanhLy Member since:
2006-03-14

It is my understanding that BeOS was owned by Palm Source who was purchased by ACCESS.

Actually it's Palm Inc. the hardware company that bought Be Inc. http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=2236

PalmSource couldn't really sustain themselves let alone buy out another company.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: About BeOS
by Jody on Fri 7th Apr 2006 21:02 UTC in reply to "RE: About BeOS"
Jody Member since:
2005-06-30

It was Palm Inc. that bought Be Inc. But I was under the impression that this took place prior to Palm Inc. splitting up into 2 separate companies (PalmSource/Palm). Since PalmSource took over Palm OS I can't imagine why the IP for BeOS would have gone to Palm Inc. (hardware division) after the split.

I don't know if anyone has asked them about the BeOS code since before Palm Inc. split into 2 companies. ACCESS may not even know they own BeOS now. It does happen.

Reply Score: 2

Some further detail translated
by Ford Prefect on Thu 6th Apr 2006 22:26 UTC
Ford Prefect
Member since:
2006-01-16

It's not actually frozen cash accounts. It's as follows: YellowTab is forbidden to access their accounts. The court sends a such called "Insolvenzverwalter" (insolvency administrator) who is responsible at first. YellowTab are able to pay bills etc. using their accounts, but every money going out of these accounts has to be confirmed by this Insolvenzverwalter person who's one and only job is to search for best methods to get the company out of the mess and operate financially stable again. If there is any need of such actions.

Reply Score: 2

Delay
by fyysik on Fri 7th Apr 2006 00:15 UTC
fyysik
Member since:
2006-02-19

There were rumours reflected on some BeOS-related sites, that in past some discussions and delays happened between YT and "suppliers", like that with Gobe
Productive current owner.
Maybe this time that delay appeared too long for some YT partner, inspite YT is ready to pay in principle?

P.S. I dislike off-topics here. It remainds me those senseless threads at "/."

Reply Score: 3

v Re: hmmm
by rcsteiner on Fri 7th Apr 2006 00:19 UTC
v RE: Re: hmmm
by stew on Fri 7th Apr 2006 03:14 UTC in reply to "Re: hmmm"
v I wonder how this one shows up?
by rcsteiner on Fri 7th Apr 2006 00:20 UTC
v Actually, I like the browser ID.
by rcsteiner on Fri 7th Apr 2006 00:24 UTC
v Ugh. This Lynx variant isn't as good.
by rcsteiner on Fri 7th Apr 2006 00:28 UTC
NiceGuyEddie Member since:
2006-03-22

We still use pints in the UK too (for some things anyway e.g, beer). Unfortunately, with-respect-to cross Atlantic homogeneity, the local pint is of a different volume to the US version.

Oops...straying from the original post again.

Reply Score: 0

Sphinx Member since:
2005-07-09

Beer is always on topic!

Reply Score: 2

From Heise comments
by Tyr. on Fri 7th Apr 2006 00:46 UTC
Tyr.
Member since:
2005-07-06

Reading the comments at Heise comes up with this : a guy claiming to have knowledge of "irregularities" in paying some phone support employee ( http://www.heise.de/newsticker/foren/go.shtml?read=1&msg_id=1020597... ).

There's also a link to the terms of the court-order https://www.insolvenzbekanntmachungen.de/cgi-bin/bl_aufruf.pl?PHPSES... of which the most interesting is the use of "vorläufig" (temporary) ;-)

The rest are very low grade trolls.

Edited 2006-04-07 00:51

Reply Score: 2

You've been warned
by Joe User on Fri 7th Apr 2006 01:31 UTC
Joe User
Member since:
2005-06-29

Whoever buys BeOS will go bankrupt.
Who's next?

Reply Score: 1

Sure hope...
by Valhalla on Fri 7th Apr 2006 02:28 UTC
Valhalla
Member since:
2006-01-24

sure hope this isn't as bad as it sounds. yellowtab looked like it was gathering momentum, and with brand new applications, gcc 4.x and open office ports in the works it would be really sad if company focus would have to shift from expansion to fighting for survival.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Sure hope...
by Emerson on Fri 7th Apr 2006 03:24 UTC in reply to "Sure hope..."
Emerson Member since:
2005-09-19

I too really hope Yellowtab's not in any dire state. I was just now starting to really become excited about BeOS again. I've been playing with the recent haiku builds, and they're really starting to take shape. And while that's inching closer to being BeOS, zeta was getting closer to reaching something close to what BeOS might have been had it survived to this day. The BeOS world would be a 'lot' less interesting if only one of these two options were out there.

Reply Score: 2

He really should have
by Sandwich Boy on Fri 7th Apr 2006 03:26 UTC
Sandwich Boy
Member since:
2005-07-10

sent Stephen and I review copies. Haiku will be in beta soon enough, anyway.

Where the heck is Stephen, anyway? Should I log in and post this to BeOSnews.com?

Reply Score: 1

Glee!
by Luposian on Fri 7th Apr 2006 03:54 UTC
Luposian
Member since:
2005-07-27

I may be the only one, but this news of possible bankruptcy just made my day. YellowTAB (Bernd Korz) has threatened one Haiku developer (Marcus Overhagen) with a suit. As far as I'm concerned, YellowTAB doesn't deserve to remain in business another single day. And, frankly, I hope Zeta dies just as quickly.

Here's the URL for the full details:

http://haikudev.blogspot.com

All hail Haiku! The *TRUE* successor (in heart and spirit) to the late, great BeOS R5!

Luposian

Reply Score: 0

RE: Glee!
by Big Al on Fri 7th Apr 2006 04:40 UTC in reply to "Glee!"
Big Al Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm the opposite. yellowTab has worked with Haiku on drivers and such, and now they're working on OpenOffice. If you want application you'll need developers and I have a feeling Haiku is going to need all developers working on the OS before apps.

They're complimentary - hoping yellowTab dies is asking for Haiku to suffer. Haiku might be the successor to R5 but yellowTab is working on the successor to what would have been R6. Keeping them both around encourages developers and broadens the base.

I really don't understand Haiku supporters who hate yellowTab except for those cases (like your linked article) where someone had direct problems. Even then everything should be taken with a liberal lump of salt as you don't know both sides of the argument.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Glee!
by stew on Fri 7th Apr 2006 05:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Glee!"
stew Member since:
2005-07-06

Exactly. As far as I can tell, yT is the only commercial supporter of Haiku, donating their source code. Haiku is better off with yT than without.

Reply Score: 3

v Metric System
by Tanner on Fri 7th Apr 2006 10:40 UTC
OpenOffice.org...
by Dr3w on Fri 7th Apr 2006 11:09 UTC
Dr3w
Member since:
2006-04-07

yellowTab were porting OpenOffice.org, indeed there had been reports that 50 of the 200 needed modules had been ported to Zeta along with a new build system.

This is a prime example of why open source should be open source.

If yellowTab has indeed gone bankrupt then there are probably slim chances that these changes will ever see the light of day. If they had committed the changes as they were made someone else could have continued with the port, rather than starting again.

Reply Score: 1

RE: OpenOffice.org...
by Emerson on Fri 7th Apr 2006 11:22 UTC in reply to "OpenOffice.org..."
Emerson Member since:
2005-09-19

f yellowTab has indeed gone bankrupt then there are probably slim chances that these changes will ever see the light of day. If they had committed the changes as they were made someone else could have continued with the port, rather than starting again.

In theory, yes. As something with even a remote chance of happening, I'm rather doubtful. Porting open office is a combination of three things
1. No fun
2. Openings to taunts from people who want a native suite but won't code or fund development.
3. Requires a high level of both ability and free time.

The haiku development community, from what I've seen of it, doesn't have enough people that anyone will make it through all three of those things to actually make any progress. Most of the people willing to do tedious coding would be working on the OS internals. Same goes for people who meet the third criteria. And who wants to work for free on something that even many people in the community will greet with scorn? This is one of those things that I think really can't come out of the haiku open source development base at this time.

Reply Score: 2