OSNews

$3.8 million is probably close to the 5% cap. Even at $40 billion, the cap would only be a bit over $5 million/day.

Edited 2006-07-10 23:01

"“The mere fact that a company enters into a cartel will cost it at least 15-25 per cent of its yearly turnover,” the Commission paper says. "

http://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=15020&comment_id=137933

Europe figures the World Trade Organazation is tying to promote free trade so they are looking for other ways to profit.

Yeah because the world's second largest economy ( GDP of USD 12.86 trillion ) needs fines from MS. The EU has been known to pay USD 114.5 billion a year in just farm subsidies alone.

To top of your insanity you seem to believe the WTO actually promotes free trade. You seriously need to pick up a book or a paper, and don't skip straight to the funny pages.

Yeah because the world's second largest economy ( GDP of USD 12.86 trillion ) needs fines from MS. The EU has been known to pay USD 114.5 billion a year in just farm subsidies alone.

It, of course, is not about money that much.

It is about forcing dominant (US) software company to open up protocols and thus making them irrelevant in the looong run.

You really believe that EU would penalize Microsoft like this if they were from EU?

"It is about forcing dominant (US) software company"

Microsoft is a global company.

"to open up protocols and thus making them irrelevant in the looong run."

Actually , the reality is Microsoft closed Open Standards , made by Open Standards group , everyone agree to standards , but Microsoft expand them and improve them , but illegally closed its modifications.

"You really believe that EU would penalize Microsoft like this if they were from EU?"

I know they would have been harsher on an EU company , based on the EU comission history toward EU company , some of those who where penalized think Microsoft is getting a small punishment due to it being a prominent US company.

Microsoft is a global company.

It is. Still, it is US company. Who do you think make major decisions? Someone outside Redmond?

Wake up.

but illegally closed its modifications

Can you prove this (the part that MS did it *illegally*)?

I don't think so. Simply because if that was the case, this trial would have finished long long time ago.

I know they would have been harsher on an EU company
I'll believe it when I see it.

And disapproval of MS methods goes beyong country borders as clearly shown by their conviction in their own country and half a dozen others (on differing counts).

Yes I agree. However, the punishment is not the same. Somehow, EU is going two steps further, don't you think so?

Long range planning by government ? I'll believe it when I see it !

If it was not long term planning then EU would pick up the cash and stop. Because they indeed want to really change something in the long run --- they order Microsoft to provide detailed protocol documentation. How's that not long term plan? It is.

Now, in the end, this may be good for all us (Microsoft) customers all over the world. We'll see, 5 or so years from now, I estimate.

"it is. Still, it is US company."

No , its a global company. US company only cather to the US needs , be it people , government or armed forces , and only operate inside the US borders.

"Who do you think make major decisions?"

Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer , Microsoft sharolders and the global market needs.

"Someone outside Redmond?"

Yes , the global market or in lamens words you understand , there consummers worldwide. Why do you think there is a Chinese and French version , etc , because Etats-Unians speak those language ? NO.

"Wake up."

I am awake.

"Can you prove this (the part that MS did it *illegally*)? "

They are CONVICTED for it. I dont need to prove anything , the court did.

"I don't think so."

You dont think at all. Your following the racist comment you where taught by the racist and extreme nationalist in your country. If you did your research and knew what you discuss you would not be having this line of comment and discussion with me

"Simply because if that was the case, this trial would have finished long long time ago. "

This trial is finished , they cant even appeal it they whent to the highest court and lost everytime , they paid 497 millions because they lost , this new fine is for there refusal to comply with the rest of the court ruling punishment and because the smaller fine did not make them budge.

"I'll believe it when I see it."

No , because its not something one can see its a court ruling by the EU , hence you have to do research or know the subject.

"and one of €462m against Roche in 2001. Over the past few months the Brussels regulator has again ratcheted up the fines, especially in cartel cases. "

Whant to compare Roche marketshare and income to Microsoft and there action to Microsoft.

If you Etats-Unians ( precise name refering only and precisely to the citizen of the United States of America ) would follow global news , instead of only the US news , you would know about this.

http://news.google.com/?topic=w

Moulinneuf

Well said on all points.


A US citizen not afraid to read global viewpoints.

It is about forcing dominant (US) software company to open up protocols and thus making them irrelevant in the looong run.

You really believe that EU would penalize Microsoft like this if they were from EU?

Yes because we're talking bureaucrats, not dr Evil cackling in his lair planning world domination. And disapproval of MS methods goes beyong country borders as clearly shown by their conviction in their own country and half a dozen others (on differing counts).

Long range planning by government ? I'll believe it when I see it !

as clearly shown by their conviction in their own country

I'd like to see sources for your claim of any such conviction. Methinks someone needs to read up on how lawsuits work (hint: there are no "counts", no crimes -- certainly no felonies -- and no convictions involved, just [arbitrary] judgements).

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/ms_index.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

Anti-trust falls under Civil, Commercial or Commons Law, not Criminal. As such, they cannot be convicted of criminal behaviour. You should actually pay attention to sources used as referrences.

Your right the reference from the US gov consider it Civil Action.

Because we all know that breaking federal monopoly law and getting convicted for it is not a crinminal offense , thats why Microsoft got to offer there punishment and there settlement after beeing convicted.

Thats US justice for you.

lol

You seems to forget that Sun, IBM, Oracle, Novell, etc are all implied in this, and they are all US ...

Try again.

Edited 2006-07-11 14:16

You seem to forget that in the meantime, both Sun and Novell have reached settlement with MS.

Oracle, IBM --- they were implied in US vs MS trial, too. So? Did you expect them to side with MS? LOL

So they are providing evidences against Microsoft.
Your theory of EU against US is dead.

Your theory of EU against US is dead.
Hey, I did not say that the case is based ONLY on the fact that Microsoft is US company. But I do believe that EU would not press them this hard if they were domestic company.

If MS was a Euro company, do you think the DOJ would've let them off scott free?

Answering a question with a question is a fallacy, I know, but still - worth thinking about.

If MS was a Euro company, do you think the DOJ would've let them off scott free?

I don't think they would impose this kind of sanctions. I am not sure what is the appropriate punishment for Microsoft, really, but I feel EU is going way too far with this.

As I said, we'll see some 5 years from now if this was appropriate measure and if it was all Microsoft's fault. If 5 years from now you see Linux with, say, 25% of the desktop market then we'll know that it worked.

If not, then EU should give Microsoft back their money and should pay penalties to Microsoft, because then it would be obvious that what we have here is just a simple case of Microsoft doing a better job than the competition. Yeah, I know, this one will never happen

Which competition? Corel's Word Perfect?

Suse/Red Hat's/OSS Linux?

Is apple competing with Microsoft? (Hahahaha!)


How can Microsoft simply be doing better than competition that it constantly illegally goes out of it's way to squash and destroy.

Oh, and the EU has gone out of it's way NOT to fine Microsoft in my opinion. This ruling was made when? This is Microsoft trying to laugh off the law - they deserve this. The EU's going easy on them.

Received euros money from Microsoft: 0

Note Microsoft already did pay the 600 million euros that the EU requested in its decision (as well as creating the "N" editions of XP, as required). This daily fine (supposedly for "insufficient" documentation) is in addition to the previous pay-out.

The moral of the story? You can't give in to an extortionist; once he gets his foot in the door he'll keep coming back for more.

"(as well as creating the "N" editions of XP, as required). "

Actually the XP N , is part of the problem they where not required to make another version of XP , thats Microsoft own doing entirely in trying to circumvent there punishment , they where supposed to remove and unbundle Windows Media Player from being included with Microsoft Windows and remove all the products on the market that did include it.

Those daily fines are retroactive , they just increased the amount per day since day 1.

"previous pay-out"

Nice wording there ( /sarcasm on my part ) , its an addition to other punishment due to them not complying with the law that they broke.

"The moral of the story?"

Its not a story , its history and its not over yet.

"You can't give in to an extortionist"

The EU commission is upholding the law , they Judged Microsoft , let them defend themself in many justs trial , and Microsoft lost because they broke the law.

I suspect that laws can be broken when you dont like them or when they dont seem to affect you directly , I guess you like to cherry pick the laws you like and whant to follow as well. thats not how just and respectable society works.

It's only for "entertainment" purposes. And free money for rich government bureaucrats.

The already overtaxed taxpayers in Europe won't ever see a dime of those "fines".

Your comment is pathetic , the law was upheld for a change against Microsoft no less , if someone else break the law and get fined anywhere in the world do the taxpayer of those country get to see that money or refund on it ? NO. Why should it be a special case in this occasion ?

I do think that where the money will go is an intersting question , to wich I dont know the answer , but I doubt that it will in reality go into bureaucrats pockets directly without any service in compensation. But I doubt your interested in the truth.

The money Microsoft paid is currently on a special bank account, awaiting Microsofts appeal. If Microsoft looses the appeal it will go into the central budget of the EU, and will be listed along with all other unexpected profits and looses that occur during a financial year.

If Microsoft wins the appeal the EU will give them their money back, increased by an interrest rate.