Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 2nd Aug 2007 23:02 UTC
SuSE, openSUSE OpenSUSE 10.3 alpha 7 is released. "Alpha7 is ready, after 5 rebuilds we're happy to say it looks good enough for the public. Important Changes Since Alpha6: Linux 2.6.22.1; gcc 4.2.1; libzypp 3.12.1; the package set of the CDs are heavily reshuffled and with it the patterns also affecting the DVD."
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Excellent
by flanque on Thu 2nd Aug 2007 23:22 UTC
flanque
Member since:
2005-12-15

It's always great to see progression and development of a great product such as SUSE. Looking forward to the final 10.3 release.

Reply Score: 5

suse
by kap1 on Thu 2nd Aug 2007 23:23 UTC
kap1
Member since:
2006-05-12

great work cant wait for 10.3 final.

Reply Score: 2

hehe
by broken_symlink on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 00:00 UTC
broken_symlink
Member since:
2005-07-06

os 10 ;-p

Reply Score: 1

So sad
by ml2mst on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 03:08 UTC
ml2mst
Member since:
2005-08-27

SuSE/SUSE and openSUSE has always been a great distribution, but unfortunately the Free Software community has lost its faith in Novell and all its "projects".

Yup, I'm part of the Free Software community and gave up on openSUSE, since the Microvell deal... Dead end :-(

An ex SuSE/SUSE openSUSE fan :`(

Sad, sad, sad...

Reply Score: 2

RE: So sad
by superstoned on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 03:22 UTC in reply to "So sad"
superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

Pity, they still contribute a lot to FOSS. And though Novell does stupid things (they have a great trackrecord in that regard, btw), the Suse PPL are still doing good stuff. Show them some support, they deserve it!

Reply Score: 7

RE: So sad
by IanSVT on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 03:23 UTC in reply to "So sad"
IanSVT Member since:
2005-07-06

Have you given up on all the "projects" that Novell contributes to as well?

On topic 10.3, with the removal of ZMD as the default package manager, should increase initial views that were not great with 10.2 and CPU hungry ZMD modules. I'm looking forward to it.

Reply Score: 6

RE: So sad
by CapEnt on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 03:31 UTC in reply to "So sad"
CapEnt Member since:
2005-12-18

The deal only affects the business line of Novell (SLES), it do not cover openSUSE. And even more: the agreement about SLES do not even talk about patents or anything like that.

Too bad that you loose your faith in openSUSE, it's a great project. If you want to go back, it is aways good to have a new member on the community.

A excellent FAQ about the issue on opensuse wiki:
http://en.opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MS

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: So sad
by sbergman27 on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 13:17 UTC in reply to "RE: So sad"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""
A excellent FAQ about the issue on OpenSuse wiki:
http://en.opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MS

"""

Yes. That FAQ is a real hoot. I love the way it defends Novell on the grounds that their strategy is (supposedly) based almost entirely on Linux. And totally avoids the issue of the 348 million dollar up front cash infusion from Microsoft for helping them to kill Linux. That's nearly 15% of Novell's entire market cap! So yeah, I guess you could say that their strategy is based on Linux.

Edited 2007-08-03 13:17

Reply Score: 3

RE: So sad
by flanque on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 10:03 UTC in reply to "So sad"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

I find it odd that you put the openSUSE developers in the same basket as the business and legal decision makers at Novell. I think you'll find there to be more than one side at Novell in regards to the "Microsoft deal".

Edited 2007-08-03 10:04

Reply Score: 4

RE: So sad
by sbergman27 on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 11:38 UTC in reply to "So sad"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I must confess that SLES, SLED, OpenSuse, Linspire, and Xandros have all come off the list of distros that I would be willing to recommend to customers. (Not that any of them were ever high on my list, anyway.) Which still leaves plenty of other distros. Fedora, CentOS and Ubuntu being my favorites. Shunning Novell in favor of other entities which refuse to bend to Microsoft's PR requirements is, I believe, the right thing to do.

It's too bad about the OpenSuse guys, many of whom I am sure are OK. But why are they still aiding and abetting Novell?

I'd prefer to support companies and organizations which are doing things I can stand behind and believe in.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: So sad
by systyrant on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 15:50 UTC in reply to "RE: So sad"
systyrant Member since:
2007-01-18

Not everybody feels the same way you do about Novell. However, I don't blame anybody for being upset with Novell over the Microsoft deal.

Leaving all religious feelings aside I'll have to say that SLED/openSuse has been really good distros in my opinion. However, I'm partial to Ubuntu at the moment.

I've never been a fan of Redhat/fedora. I've never had much success with fedora and Redhat, the company, has always rubbed me the wrong. Don't know why they just do.

Reply Score: 3

RE: So sad
by kaiwai on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 15:00 UTC in reply to "So sad"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

What is so sad about the arrangement with Microsoft?

I've yet to hear one single coherent problem with it?

If I was Novell and wanted to 'take over the desktop' the first thing I would do is licence every bit of technology from Microsoft that I could, put it down on paper, and use the legal system if Microsoft fails to provide the necessary information for compatibility by virtue of not sticking to the contract.

The reality is that this is a Microsoft world, to beat Microsoft you need to be compatible with Microsoft.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: So sad
by sbergman27 on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 15:27 UTC in reply to "RE: So sad"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""
If I was Novell and wanted to 'take over the desktop' the first thing I would do is licence every bit of technology from Microsoft that I could, put it down on paper, and use the legal system if Microsoft fails to provide the necessary information for compatibility by virtue of not sticking to the contract.
"""

And do you really think that Microsoft is going to let anyone be successful with that strategy?

And if any company was smart enough to pull it off, do you think that it would be Novell? Novell had the advantage, once upon a time, and they let it slip away. I don't see them making a comeback.

Although I'm pretty sure they'd sell their own mother if they thought they might pull one off.

You are correct that this is a Microsoft world. But one needs only look at the track record for cooperation/compatibility agreements in this industry to see where this one is going. Their agreement has about as much chance of producing compatibility as flour, baking powder, eggs, and oil have of producing an omelette.

Reply Score: 2

RE: So sad
by Anonymous Penguin on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 15:18 UTC in reply to "So sad"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

I am still using openSUSE, in fact more than ever, because it is a rock solid OS, with all the software you might desire. From the many existing repos you'll have always the latest version of everything which matters most. And as it has already been said, I have the uppermost respect for the openSUSE developers, who have worked for so many years with endless patience and great professionalism.
My only real complaints are package management (which is going to be solved in 10.3) and that SUSE is a slow OS even on my very fast hardware.

Reply Score: 3

RE: So sad
by milles21 on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 15:45 UTC in reply to "So sad"
milles21 Member since:
2006-11-08

The developers on opensuse are still a great bunch of guys, There is no reason to abandon opensuse because you disagree with a few business decisions made by Novell. Also there contributions are great for the entire community, the entire community benefits. If you want to talk about abandoning something then do so for the enterprise software.

However the community guys are the same guys that were providing great contributions before the deal and are the same guys that are providing great contribution after the deal. If someone in your family steals it does make the whole family thieves.

Reply Score: 2

nesting
by netpython on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 07:14 UTC
netpython
Member since:
2005-07-06

Slightly off topic:

Is it possible to nest groups on a SuSE system?

Reply Score: 2

RE: nesting
by sbergman27 on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 12:58 UTC in reply to "nesting"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

No. But users can be members of multiple groups. Just add the appropriate users to the appropriate groups.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: nesting
by netpython on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 13:18 UTC in reply to "RE: nesting"
netpython Member since:
2005-07-06

But users can be members of multiple groups. Just add the appropriate users to the appropriate groups.

I know, groupadd -g <guid> <group> && gpasswd -a <user> <group>
Would be nice though if you could do: groupadd -g <guid> <group> <group> thus nesting groups.

Reply Score: 2

RE: So sad
by REMF on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 07:46 UTC
REMF
Member since:
2006-02-05

go. somewhere. else. then.

and don't use anything that suse/novell contributes too either.

back OT - kongrats to suse

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: So sad
by sbergman27 on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 11:50 UTC in reply to "RE: So sad"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""
and don't use anything that suse/novell contributes too either.
"""

Why do people make such nonsensical recommendations as this? There is a difference between not wishing to support the development branch of a distro backed by a company doing things which we do not approve of... and thinking that anything that company touches is somehow poisoned.

The former sentiment and strategy is quite reasonable. The latter is silly. So why do you recommend the latter?

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: So sad
by systyrant on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 16:05 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So sad"
systyrant Member since:
2007-01-18

Why do people make such nonsensical recommendations as this? There is a difference between not wishing to support the development branch of a distro backed by a company doing things which we do not approve of... and thinking that anything that company touches is somehow poisoned.

I'm not disagreeing or arguing here, but rather just adding a potential view point to your statement.

For some, I suppose, the idea of calling a project like openSuse tainted because of Novell's deal with Microsoft, but still using and supporting other Novell projects or projects Novell is involved in seems hypocritical.

You also have those project leaders who opening curse Novell yet are very willing to accept money and support from them. For the record I don't know if that ever really happens or not. I'm only assuming that some people probably feel that way.

I want to point out that I'm not trying to say any of this is true, factual, or worth anything. I just thought it might at the very least provide another view point. It's also not what I believe.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: So sad
by sbergman27 on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 16:49 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: So sad"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""
For some, I suppose, the idea of calling a project like openSuse tainted because of Novell's deal with Microsoft, but still using and supporting other Novell projects or projects Novell is involved in seems hypocritical.
"""

As long as one stays focused upon what various entities *do* and not upon trying to characterize the entities themselves as "good" or "evil", the concept of hypocrisy seems pretty orthogonal to the issue.

Reward the good deeds. Speak out against the bad deeds. What else can we do?

If Novell contributes to some cool and beneficial projects, I recommend that we get behind them 100% on that. How could I reasonably recommend otherwise?

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: So sad
by systyrant on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 18:25 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: So sad"
systyrant Member since:
2007-01-18

Reward the good deeds. Speak out against the bad deeds. What else can we do?

If Novell contributes to some cool and beneficial projects, I recommend that we get behind them 100% on that. How could I reasonably recommend otherwise?


So the question. Is openSuse tainted by the bad deeds of Novell?

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: So sad
by Erunno on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 20:13 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: So sad"
Erunno Member since:
2007-06-22

So, you're saying that openSUSE is guilty by association, a law practice which is practically abondoned by all democratic courts I know of? The point is that although people make dramatic posts about renouncing any connections to Novell they have far less reservations using products supported by them, which probably wouldn't exist or in a far less complete state without their financial involvement. It's a little bit hypocritic trying to eat the cake and eat it, meaning in this case having the moral high ground and still keep the benefits.

If you want to isolate Novell from the Free Software Community why not fork some Novell funded projekts and refuse any patches made by them? If the case against them is so convincing it shouldn't be a problem persuading all developers with no ties to Novell to concentrate their efforts on the fork.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: So sad
by systyrant on Sat 4th Aug 2007 03:48 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: So sad"
systyrant Member since:
2007-01-18

Actually, I wasn't saying anything. I was asking a question.

For the record I am a Novell customer (well the company I work for actually). We currently use Netware and I'm looking forward to OES2 (hopefully it will be a much better product than OES on Linux was).

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: So sad
by sbergman27 on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 22:04 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: So sad"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

"""
So the question. Is openSuse tainted by the bad deeds of Novell?
"""

I don't think that is the question at all. And the concept of "taintedness", whatever it means, is irrelevant. There are a number of questions, and they all have to be answered independently. Do I care to assist or use Novell's development branch? No. Do I praise Novell's contributions to Samba and OpenOffice? Yes. Do I praise their work on Mono? Yes. Do I want to see Mono used as part of our OSS infrastructure? No.

See?

Edited 2007-08-03 22:09

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: So sad
by systyrant on Sat 4th Aug 2007 03:52 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: So sad"
systyrant Member since:
2007-01-18

It's one of them. How many people refuse to use openSuse because of it's association with Novell.

As for Mono. Isn't it becoming merged with gnome somehow or another?

Reply Score: 2

RE[8]: So sad
by hussam on Sun 5th Aug 2007 02:55 UTC in reply to "RE[7]: So sad"
hussam Member since:
2006-08-17

Core gnome packages don't use mono. Only evolution does.

Reply Score: 1

RE: So sad
by netpython on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 11:57 UTC
netpython
Member since:
2005-07-06

For many consumers it's buisiness as usual. Although i also think many of the devs at OpenSuSE are nice people. Nevertheless despite the friendlyness of the devs who can't do jack sh#t about the company politics people should use whatever they feel comfortable with. In addition i can't imagine most people feel comfortable while being threathened.

Edited 2007-08-03 11:58

Reply Score: 2

live cd ?
by p.leiner on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 14:45 UTC
p.leiner
Member since:
2007-08-03

i always wonder why there are no live cds available ?

Reply Score: 1

Sickening and Annoying..
by andrewpl28 on Fri 3rd Aug 2007 17:04 UTC
andrewpl28
Member since:
2005-07-11

Honestly, I am really getting sick and tired of the constant bashing between open source project and etc. I don't remember seeing one news post without one person mentioning something about the MS/Novell deal. Another instance is KDE vs. Gnome. I use to love the open source community for its live spirit and its constant push for innovation. But lately all I hear is its constant whining like little kids whom don't know anything of the corporate world but constantly b**ching about what they don't like. I think its time those people who come on these threads get a life and maybe a girlfriend or etc and stop these nonsense wars. Initially I though some of these arguments were amusing but enough is enough... As always I have high respect for people who speak up and make their views public whether some agree or not. However, I, probably along with many other individuals, believe that the flame wars have become so idiotic that they just hinder development and progression. Honestly, if you feel so strongly and passionately, I believe, that you should setup a group or something along those lines an make your views known. However, stop coming into every post that you don't like or disagree and spam the crap out of them. One thing is certain, if you want your views to be respected then you should respect others.

Edited 2007-08-03 17:05

Reply Score: 2

How many people refuse to use openSuse
by REMF on Sat 4th Aug 2007 08:25 UTC
REMF
Member since:
2006-02-05

not me.

cheers folks, just had some fun blowing a load of mod points. ;)

Reply Score: 0