Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 11th Apr 2013 21:16 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless "A recent poll by MKM Partners reveals that an overwhelming 83% of Americans do not know that BlackBerry has launched their new BlackBerry Z10 smartphone or new Blackberry 10 platform. The company's trouble does not just include marketing woes. The Wall Street Journal reports that over 50% of customers have returned their BlackBerry smartphones after trying out the platform. That is not to say that BlackBerry hasn't reached the top of any list. We learned today that BlackBerry is the most undesirable smart phone, learning that 71% of people would not consider the BlackBerry under any circumstances." BlackBerry denies the return rate figures, but that still leaves the others. This is devastating.
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I like the Z10
by TSDgeos on Thu 11th Apr 2013 21:38 UTC
TSDgeos
Member since:
2007-05-26

I just got a Z10 as part of their developer program and I have to say that I like it. On the other hand I didn't pay for it, if i had pay for it maybe I'd expect more (especially the application availability is not great atm)

Reply Score: 4

Re:
by kurkosdr on Thu 11th Apr 2013 21:53 UTC
kurkosdr
Member since:
2011-04-11

I will sound cliche, but is there room for a third platform? For example, all my purchased apps are in the Play Store. I don't have the apk files and cannot get them without some hacking, so chances are I 'll want to protect the money I 've spent so far by buying a phone featuring the Play Store again. Back in the days when apps were shipped in CDs/DVDs or as files, you could in theory build a compat layer like WINE (not that this ever worked in practice) and move to another OS, but now with app stores keeping your apps, you are officially locked in.

Most of the market share growth Android and iOS are posting (and Windows Phone to a lesser extent) is because they are getting users from the pool of Symbian/old Blackberry/feature phone users, which however is about dry up, not because they get users from each other (this happens, but it's rarer because of the lock-in). IMO once the pool has completely dried up by the end of 2013, it 'll officially be game over for any "third" platform. The last chance for all those "third platforms" (Blackberry 10, Ubuntu phone, WP8) was in 2011 and early 2012, too bad none if them bothered to show up.

Everyone from MS to RIM to Canonical keeps talking about becoming "the third platform", as if they are so certain such a thing can exist anymore. I wonder how many people returned their BB10 phones because they found out there was nothing interesting in the app store (because of developer indifference created by a lack of users/market share).

What is your opinion? Can there be a third platform?

Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; el-gr; LG-P990 Build/GRJ23) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1 MMS/LG-Android-MMS-V1.0/1.2

Reply Score: 5

RE: Re:
by ebasconp on Thu 11th Apr 2013 22:12 UTC in reply to "Re:"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

Maybe some cheaper alternative for third world countries (South America, Africa) could turn (because of number of users) into a big competitor.

Otherwise, I completely agree with you.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Re:
by Moochman on Thu 11th Apr 2013 22:35 UTC in reply to "Re:"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

I couldn't disagree with you more. The more platforms the better, I say. The world is a big place and even in the richest countries smartphones only make up about 50% of the market...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Re:
by Soulbender on Fri 12th Apr 2013 03:45 UTC in reply to "Re:"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I don't have the apk files and cannot get them without some hacking, so chances are I 'll want to protect the money I 've spent so far by buying a phone featuring the Play Store again.


If everyone reasoned like this we would never have gone from vinyl -> cd -> digital.

IMO once the pool has completely dried up by the end of 2013, it 'll officially be game over for any "third" platform.


Any company who think that at some point they will have "won" will undoubtedly rest on their laurels and subsequently some new player will kick their ass.

The last chance for all those "third platforms" (Blackberry 10, Ubuntu phone, WP8) was in 2011 and early 2012, too bad none if them bothered to show up.


There's never a last chance in any market. Markets are always changing and developing and for those who think the race is over, well, lets just say "good luck with that".

Edited 2013-04-12 03:46 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: Re:
by pandronic on Fri 12th Apr 2013 05:54 UTC in reply to "Re:"
pandronic Member since:
2006-05-18

For example, all my purchased apps are in the Play Store.



I had the same fear when I switched to WP8, after two years of Android, so I took a look in Google Wallet where they show you all your app purchases. I had bought about 30 apps (I bought all the apps I used, even if they had a free, ad supported, version) and spent a total of 50 bucks. I can live with losing that money, it's not that much, like I had initially thought before looking.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Re:
by tkeith on Fri 12th Apr 2013 09:43 UTC in reply to "Re:"
tkeith Member since:
2010-09-01

I will sound cliche, but is there room for a third platform? For example, all my purchased apps are in the Play Store. I don't have the apk files and cannot get them without some hacking, so chances are I 'll want to protect the money I 've spent so far by buying a phone featuring the Play Store again. ~ IMO once the pool has completely dried up by the end of 2013, it 'll officially be game over for any "third" platform. The last chance for all those "third platforms" (Blackberry 10, Ubuntu phone, WP8) was in 2011 and early 2012, too bad none if them bothered to show up.

What is your opinion? Can there be a third platform



I agree with you, people will not want to repurchase apps, but logically that doesn't make a lot of sense. You are paying hundreds of dollars for a new phone and thousands for the service. How much do people spend on mobile apps, $20-30? It shouldn't really matter, but it does.

Secondly, you are leaving out one of the biggest new markets, kids. Every year, a good chunk of people become "old enough" to get a smartphone. If a new OS became the new "cool thing" and was cheap enough, it could establish a market here. Sadly I don't see blackberry doing this though.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Re:
by sparkyERTW on Fri 12th Apr 2013 12:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Re:"
sparkyERTW Member since:
2010-06-09

I agree with you, people will not want to repurchase apps, but logically that doesn't make a lot of sense. You are paying hundreds of dollars for a new phone and thousands for the service. How much do people spend on mobile apps, $20-30? It shouldn't really matter, but it does.


Holy hit-the-nail-on-the-head, Batman. People pay $50-60 a month - some even more - but balk at shelling out half of that once for what would likely be their entire app collection. Mind-boggling.

Admittedly I'm not huge on buying apps to begin with, but that's more because a) I'm not a big fan of proprietary software, b) half the time I feel like the app experience is a watered-down, broken version of a proper web-app or a desktop app that has been trimmed down to the point it's no longer useful, and c) 95% of the stuff is time-wasting games and social media, and I neither need to be a ninja of fruit nor do you need to know that I just "checked-in" at Beuaford's Bacon Boutique.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Re:
by WorknMan on Fri 12th Apr 2013 15:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Re:"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Admittedly I'm not huge on buying apps to begin with, but that's more because a) I'm not a big fan of proprietary software


It's amazing how many people expect developers to work for free. Sure, maybe you can make money giving away open source software when you're selling complicated server stuff that you can charge support for, but devs building < $5 phone apps really don't have that luxury. So why not cut them some slack?

Sure, as you say, 95% of the offerings are crap, But I am happy to pay for the other 5%. Especially when the apps aren't infected with adware.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Re:
by woegjiub on Fri 12th Apr 2013 22:47 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Re:"
woegjiub Member since:
2008-11-25

There are FOSS apps for nearly everything now, excepting useless rubbish like Facebook and twitter.

I have completely swapped to the f-droid repository, and have had no problems, except that I had to grab apks from my keyboard's website (it's also FOSS, though, so that was no problem)

I fail to see why anyone should expect money unless they are creating bespoke apps.
Everything else can be done in he free time of individuals, because phone apps are simple.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Re:
by telns on Tue 16th Apr 2013 15:09 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Re:"
telns Member since:
2009-06-18

You really think apps like ForeFlight are going to be done for free because they are so simple?

Reply Score: 1

Surprising
by Moochman on Thu 11th Apr 2013 22:20 UTC
Moochman
Member since:
2005-07-06

Two years ago when I was in the U.S. BlackBerry was blitzing the TV airwaves with ads just as much as Samsung (albeit for a less desirable OS), and they had huge recognition. I'd be surprised if that's not the case now... and if so then I expect the awareness of the new products to increase significantly.

Also I expect they will be able to get more recognition once the QWERTY Q10 comes out, since it's got the trademark form factor.

In any case I am pretty surprised at these results, considering historically BB has been pretty aggressive with marketing in the U.S... but maybe it's just a matter of time, after all it's been less than two weeks(!) that it's been on Verizon! Samsung Galaxy SII needed something like half a year after release to ramp up the numbers before being declared a "big hit", if anyone can recall....

On the whole presenting these figures this way smacks of premature FUD aimed at lowering the stock price and pushing investors/the board to be sell-happy and make more stupid premature decisions....

But whatever, what do I care. Let's all jump on the "beat up on the little guy" bandwagon once more and egg the naysayers on, innovation/competition just causes more trouble than it's worth, let's fight the good fight to stifle it with our words...

Edited 2013-04-11 22:30 UTC

Reply Score: 4

The problem with platforms these days ...
by Jondice on Thu 11th Apr 2013 22:26 UTC
Jondice
Member since:
2006-09-20

is that everyone has to have an exclusive store. This makes it hard to migrate, to say the least.

Desktops/Laptops: Apple store, Windows 8 store, Ubuntu store, etc.

Tablets/Phones: Android (Google or Amazon), Windows Phone store (whatever its called), Blackberry store, Apple Store


All modern consoles ... too lazy to list.

Edited 2013-04-11 22:27 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

Good point. However, most apps that really matter are free. Games are an exception and I agree that there should be more support for publishers to offer their own licensing terms so that one license can cover the product on multiple platforms. I guess that's one good thing about web apps / SaaS at least...

Reply Score: 4

darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Good point. However, most apps that really matter are free.

For Android users, perhaps. The rest of us are far less tolerant of ad-infested crap.

Reply Score: 2

woegjiub Member since:
2008-11-25

There are good FOSS options for everything. All my apps are FOSS, holo-themed and ad-free.

Reply Score: 3

darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

is that everyone has to have an exclusive store. This makes it hard to migrate, to say the least.

Not precisely. More specifically, it's that each platform has exclusive applications. Whether they primarily come from an application store as on phones and tablets, or from the web as on desktops and laptops doesn't matter. If I've spent a lot of money on stuff for one platform (and believe me, I have) I'm not likely to move to another one unless there's a sound benefit to doing so. There is also the question of not just app exclusivity, but of availability. Some of the apps I depend on are only available on Mac OS X, and there are either no equivalent Windows counterparts or else said equivalents will run me five times what the Mac versions do. Why would I pay much more just to get the functionality I already have? On mobiles, at least for now, the cost of apps is considerably cheaper but the problem still remains and probably always will. There's only so much you can do with compatibility layers, and there are always going to be app developers that eithr favor or are exclusive to one platform or the other. Most users don't even give a damn about the platform, it's the apps that draw them to one or the other. The only ones who care about the actual platform are either app developers, those like us who frequent sites like this, or those who make a living off of supporting the users of certain platforms.

Reply Score: 2

dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Exactly, if BB was smart they would negotiate with app devs that simply repackage their APKs to the plaform an ability to reinstall these free of charge on BB if one has already bought these on Play. They would also release a nice migration tool on Android to move the data as well.

Reply Score: 3

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Desktops/Laptops: Apple store, Windows 8 store, Ubuntu store, etc.


App store or not, it has never been easy migrating between such different platforms.

Tablets/Phones: Android (Google or Amazon), Windows Phone store (whatever its called), Blackberry store, Apple Store


I can't remember a time when it was easy to migrate between different phones. I can't remember when it was particularly hard either.

In short, app stores has nothing to do with it. The "problem is that all these platforms are fundamentally different and have some applications that are unique. This has ALWAYS been the case in computing. Its not like it was "easy' to migrate between a Commodore 64 and a TI-99.

In fact, App stores might make it easier to migrate between different platforms since it could be easier to find the apps youre used to on the new platform.

Reply Score: 4

moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

It has never been another way.

Mainframes:

B5000, PDP, Vax, System/360, ....


Micros

ZX Spectrum, BBC Micro, Apple II, TRS-80, Commodore 64,...

16 Bit Systems

Atari ST, Commodore Amiga, Apple Lisa, PC, ....

32 bit Home Market
Apple, OEM PC

Enterprise with big bucks
UNIX workstations each one with its UNIX flavour, Mainframes

Game consoles

Atari 2600, Nintendo, N64, Mega Drive, Game boy, .....


I for one welcome the platform diversity we are starting to have again. It allows for manufactures to make a better experience (software+hardware) and fosters competition.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by powderblue
by powderblue on Thu 11th Apr 2013 22:48 UTC
powderblue
Member since:
2007-07-22

Yet Windows Phone had close to the same numbers as Blackberry while being out longer but you completely ignored that part. Not surprising.

And you link to a Mac site? Congratulations you've completely ruined this site with your bias.

Edited 2013-04-11 23:02 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by powderblue
by Moochman on Fri 12th Apr 2013 08:53 UTC in reply to "Comment by powderblue"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

Agreed. But tbh it's nothing new to see sensationalized content on this site, I desensititized myself to it long ago...

Edited 2013-04-12 08:59 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Don't read the article, read it's sources ...
by MacTO on Fri 12th Apr 2013 03:22 UTC
MacTO
Member since:
2006-09-21

The 83% figure comes from a very odd survey question: “Are you aware that BlackBerry 10 was launched in Canada and Europe in late January 2013?” How many Americans are going to know about foreign release dates?

The 71% figure comes from a small sample size (250 people). Little else was said about the sample, but one word makes me suspect that it was a self-selected sample: Surveymonkey.

Finally, the "over 50%" is based upon pure speculation and includes an important qualifier: “in several cases, returns are now exceeding sales."

BlackBerry may be failing in the marketplace, but this article hardly even provides shaky evidence to support that.

Reply Score: 10

Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

Also, as several commenters on the article's page mention:

MKM partners [the source of the survey] is short on BBRY and NOK, so of course it will reiterate sell rating. If you are short on these stocks, you might be lucky in short term but long term (beyond 2 months) these idi*ts will not be able to manipulate these stocks.


WOW looks like someone is trying the help the now 155699 ( 2.3 billions )shorts as of march 28th


MKM Partners’s Michael Genovese has been shorting BBRY and NOK stocks all along. Of course he will say sell sell sell. Before the BBRY earning, he said BBRY will report a loss. However, after BBRY report a positive earning number, what is his comment? Continue to re-initiate a sell rating.. His so call survey is so fake. I can say I did a survey where everyone is interest in BB10.


So I guess asking the real questions like…

” would you purchase a BlackBerry 10″ wasn’t worth the effort?

These ” Surveys” are really worthless. Same value as “Select” channel checks.

These guys have a vested interest in the answers..so the questions are worded carefully or answers are not published if they don’t fit the model.


So much for journalistic integrity...

Edited 2013-04-12 08:45 UTC

Reply Score: 4

It is everywhere in Germany
by moondevil on Fri 12th Apr 2013 06:28 UTC
moondevil
Member since:
2005-07-08

I do not know if they are selling anything, but here in Düsseldorf, the city is full of Blackberry ads everywhere.

Reply Score: 3

Strange campaign
by digitallysane on Fri 12th Apr 2013 11:26 UTC
digitallysane
Member since:
2011-12-19

I have to say I find these campaigns that show up from time to time with the only purpose to make Blackberry unattractive to be quite dubious in their focus.
That being said, I spent some time in a London store with a Z10 and I found it more "desirable" than my HTC 8X with Windows Phone 8. Both hardware and software.
To put it differently, if I'd be in the place I was 6 months ago when I got my HTC, I would get a Z10.

Reply Score: 3

Look again
by caudex on Fri 12th Apr 2013 15:43 UTC
caudex
Member since:
2008-07-05
Goodbye, Blackberry.
by benali72 on Sat 13th Apr 2013 07:40 UTC
benali72
Member since:
2008-05-03

Goodbye, Blackberry.

Reply Score: 1