Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 7th Jun 2017 21:57 UTC
Apple

I'm not asking for an iPhone with replaceable RAM. I understand the value of a sleek, highly integrated, highly custom product. But if the most important and expensive part of the desktop computer you're looking to buy is the GPU, it's insane to choose one that's soldered to the motherboard.

Absolutely.

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It's business sense
by The Lone OSer on Wed 7th Jun 2017 22:09 UTC
The Lone OSer
Member since:
2005-07-11

Thats Apples way, make people come back and back... My desktop is 6 years old.. quad core AMD with a Radeon R9 380.. plays everything i've thrown at it at ultra quality... the gpu is the only part I have needed to upgrade for a very very long time... Give people a system that can upgrade the gpu, they don't come and buy a new system for a very very long time either... Apple knows this game, it's business sense.

Reply Score: 2

RE: It's business sense
by Brendan on Thu 8th Jun 2017 00:49 UTC in reply to "It's business sense"
Brendan Member since:
2005-11-16

Hi,

Thats Apples way, make people come back and back... My desktop is 6 years old.. quad core AMD with a Radeon R9 380.. plays everything i've thrown at it at ultra quality... the gpu is the only part I have needed to upgrade for a very very long time... Give people a system that can upgrade the gpu, they don't come and buy a new system for a very very long time either... Apple knows this game, it's business sense.


Yes.

More specifically, Apple only need to support hardware they supply, and don't need to spend a huge amount of $$ trying to support every random GPU that anyone might feel like plugging into a computer now or in the future.

- Brendan

Reply Score: 3

RE: It's business sense
by xeoron on Thu 8th Jun 2017 20:52 UTC in reply to "It's business sense"
xeoron Member since:
2007-03-25

The next version of OS X will support external GPU's.

This will solve your problem.

Reply Score: 0

Whatever
by WorknMan on Wed 7th Jun 2017 22:24 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

This is like people wishing that Apple would be a little more open with their stuff - you might as well be asking for hell to freeze over. It's just not Apple's way. You either like it or you don't. If you don't, then STOP BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS.

/ thread

Reply Score: 7

JPU
by cjcox on Wed 7th Jun 2017 22:31 UTC
cjcox
Member since:
2006-12-21

Introducing JPU.

Part of the new fully integrated J platform.

JPU integrates with the industry standard J-Bus which can be found on all JBook, jPhones and Jablets. This means there is just one bus for all JPUs. One for all of your industry standard devices.

JPU is affordable. With a low low base price you can obtain quality JPU computing. Initially there will be 3 choices, standard, deluxe and über, From high powered alternative currency mining to searching the stars for new life. With the display, JPU-D, add-on option your JPU becomes the star of the show by adding an external J-Plug. Now all your J-Plug devices like 8.5K monitors (the ultimate in industry standard 7801 × 4507 übersharp technology) can be used. Add the optional legacy box to that and you can preserve your investment in legacy HDMI and Display Port devices**.

Built to last because it works across the whole J product line.

One letter, one platform: J

JPU base config USD$600 (std), $700 (deluxe), $1500 (über)

JPU-D starts at USD$300
JPU Hollywood Driver (H264/H265 support) USD$200**
JPU Legacy starts at USD$200**
JPU Legacy HDMI cable USD$40
JPU Legacy Display Port cable USD$40

** - requires JPU base über

Reply Score: 1

RE: JPU
by cjcox on Wed 7th Jun 2017 22:51 UTC in reply to "JPU"
cjcox Member since:
2006-12-21

Newly added, a demonstration of how easy it is to upgrade from JPU standard to JPU deluxe on a new JMac.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qycJ1a2YGrE

Folks, this is being demonstrated by Timmy, our resident 1st grade tester (all J platform product have to pass the Timmy test).

Note: Our J Anti-static Fleece pullover can be bought via J-Tunes for USD$59.95 (while supplies last).

Don't forget all the parts, and our new J Length sure connect ensures that all cables go right where they need to go (folks, it's Timmy proof!).

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: JPU
by dionicio on Thu 8th Jun 2017 14:06 UTC in reply to "RE: JPU"
dionicio Member since:
2006-07-12

J insurance, cover 3 year minimum $99 :-D

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: JPU
by cjcox on Thu 8th Jun 2017 18:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: JPU"
cjcox Member since:
2006-12-21

I'll run this by the J-Team.

(like the way you think!)

Reply Score: 1

So the argument is?
by leos on Wed 7th Jun 2017 23:09 UTC
leos
Member since:
2005-09-21

The argument seems to be that they want Apple to make cheap hardware to compete with building your own PC box..

Sorry, ain't gonna happen, and has never been what Apple is about.

What's next? Someone complaining that the iPhone costs $800 and isn't it a shame that they can get an Android phone for $100 and why can't apple make a $200 iPhone?

The author says that they used to own Apple products but I doubt it. It has always been far cheaper to build your own PC boxes than buy Apple. The argument was as true 10 years ago as it is now.

Reply Score: 4

RE: So the argument is?
by sergio on Thu 8th Jun 2017 02:03 UTC in reply to "So the argument is?"
sergio Member since:
2005-07-06

100% agree. Also, with Thunderbolt 3 you can connect GPUs using an external case. Apple will support these external solutions officially in High Sierra providing drivers for nVidia (they presented a Sonnet box, but any TB3 box with sufficient power to feed the GPU will do the trick).

In fact, in the Mac community, We've been using TB2 external GPUs for years, people complaining about these kind of things are usually PC fanboys, they don't give a shit about Macs and never will buy one anyway. xD

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: So the argument is?
by someone on Thu 8th Jun 2017 02:20 UTC in reply to "RE: So the argument is?"
someone Member since:
2006-01-12

The only issue with TB3 enclosures is the limited number of lanes available. Obviously, lanes in future versions of TB will get faster, but I doubt we will see a 16X external PCI express connection anytime soon.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: So the argument is?
by tylerdurden on Thu 8th Jun 2017 17:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So the argument is?"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

There's also another issue with TB GPU enclosures: PRICE.

Literally, you end up spending an order of magnitude more to get significantly less BW than native PCIe connection.

That's the apple way I guess; pay more for less.

Reply Score: 2

RE: So the argument is?
by Alfman on Thu 8th Jun 2017 02:28 UTC in reply to "So the argument is?"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

leos,

The author says that they used to own Apple products but I doubt it. It has always been far cheaper to build your own PC boxes than buy Apple. The argument was as true 10 years ago as it is now.


I agree with your conclusion here, but the first statement seems a bit odd to me. Given the downward economic forces on the middle classes, it sounds perfectly logical to me that maybe he could be a former mac user who's been priced out, just as he claims.

Reply Score: 4

RE: So the argument is?
by CaptainN- on Thu 8th Jun 2017 03:22 UTC in reply to "So the argument is?"
CaptainN- Member since:
2005-07-07

It doesn't have to be cheap - a Mac Mini with a PCI-Express slot, or maybe even the external GPUs they now support. $1000 isn't cheap btw.

And by the way, the iMac is cost competitive. Have you ever tried to make a similar system out of parts? You'll blow your budget on the 5K screen alone. It's not like they are a stranger to the idea.

Edited 2017-06-08 03:23 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: So the argument is?
by Alfman on Thu 8th Jun 2017 04:41 UTC in reply to "RE: So the argument is?"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

CaptainN,

It doesn't have to be cheap - a Mac Mini with a PCI-Express slot, or maybe even the external GPUs they now support. $1000 isn't cheap btw.

And by the way, the iMac is cost competitive. Have you ever tried to make a similar system out of parts? You'll blow your budget on the 5K screen alone. It's not like they are a stranger to the idea.


Yeah, but on the other hand you'll likely be plopping down large sums more frequently than with modular systems where you can upgrade/repair individual components. IMHO it makes sense to plan for upgrades, and it will save a lot of money over replacing the whole rig each time - even if you pay more for higher end components.


The other problem is being limited to a few models with hardwired components isn't very flexible. I think many pro users would be happy for the "grater box" Mac to come back. I've personally upgraded the same midtower for most of my life, haha. No such luck with laptops though.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: So the argument is?
by CaptainN- on Thu 8th Jun 2017 15:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So the argument is?"
CaptainN- Member since:
2005-07-07

I don't know. The three things I've upgraded or replaced regularly are the amount of RAM, hard drives, and maybe the GPU, but usually only because the old one burnt out.

I don't even need a replaceable GPU to be honest - just something a bit more than an integrated middle range mobile GPU. Mainstream performance, and I'm all over it.

There are a few problems with upgrading parts over time. One is that the parts actually become scarce (just look for a quad core socket 775 Intel CPU for example - they can be expensive and hard to find). There are similar problems with GPU upgrades - my old Core 2 Duo board has PCI-Express 1.1 - I can put a newer GPU in there, but should I?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: So the argument is?
by Alfman on Thu 8th Jun 2017 16:20 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: So the argument is?"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

CaptainN-,

There are a few problems with upgrading parts over time. One is that the parts actually become scarce (just look for a quad core socket 775 Intel CPU for example - they can be expensive and hard to find). There are similar problems with GPU upgrades - my old Core 2 Duo board has PCI-Express 1.1 - I can put a newer GPU in there, but should I?


Haha, yea eventually you should replace that ;)

I bought a new computer in a small form factor, I did so because I wanted to fit it in a smaller space than my tower, but I'm kind of disappointed with the power supply options and half size PCI cards. I'm not sure how well my upgrade endeavors are going to go with it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: So the argument is?
by CaptainN- on Thu 8th Jun 2017 18:21 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: So the argument is?"
CaptainN- Member since:
2005-07-07

Same! I have a Shuttle SP35P2.

I haven't upgraded because I bought a Mac Book Pro, and haven't needed to. :-)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: So the argument is?
by karunko on Thu 8th Jun 2017 07:50 UTC in reply to "RE: So the argument is?"
karunko Member since:
2008-10-28

And by the way, the iMac is cost competitive. Have you ever tried to make a similar system out of parts? You'll blow your budget on the 5K screen alone. It's not like they are a stranger to the idea.

Why should I want to bleed my wallet on a 5K screen when I could get a great 32" 4K screen that gives me a much more useful pixel density -- for a fraction of the price?

Why should I want to buy a server class CPU (and the expensive ECC memory that goes with it) while there are kick ass desktop class CPUs that would be just as good for most workloads -- for a fraction of the price?

And no, I have no interest in pissing contests, so "just because I can" is not a valid answer for me.


RT.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: So the argument is?
by CaptainN- on Thu 8th Jun 2017 15:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So the argument is?"
CaptainN- Member since:
2005-07-07

iMacs don't run those things, and maybe 4K at 32" is good for you, but I rather like the "retina" screen, and 5K at 27" is to me a sweet spot.

To each their own though.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: So the argument is?
by leos on Thu 8th Jun 2017 18:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So the argument is?"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

Your argument is "why would I pay more for better things when I could pay less for worse things?".

Great. If you are happy with the lower specs then get that. Don't be surprised that higher specs cost more money.

The only Apple hardware I own is an iPhone 5S that I bought for $80. I also don't want to spend thousands of dollars for high end iMacs but that doesn't mean I don't understand why people do spend the money.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: So the argument is?
by The123king on Thu 8th Jun 2017 08:04 UTC in reply to "RE: So the argument is?"
The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

$1000 IS cheap when we're talking Macintoshes. The entry level ones still sell for $700

You'll never see Apple sell a "modular" Mac for less that $2500. They'd be cannabalising their own low-end market with a potentially high-end machine

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: So the argument is?
by CaptainN- on Thu 8th Jun 2017 15:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So the argument is?"
CaptainN- Member since:
2005-07-07

I think the argument here is that they are already losing ground by not offering a higher end at a reasonable price, with a decent GPU. We're looking for mainstream performance - not the toppest of the top end parts.

I also don't agree again that Apples are expensive when you factor in build quality the glorious screen (though we wouldn't have that here) and all that. Cost of ownership for Apple hardware is low.

Reply Score: 2

C'est la vie
by Alfman on Thu 8th Jun 2017 02:06 UTC
Alfman
Member since:
2011-01-28

The author seems to be disappointed that the products are being priced out of his range, and I agree they are expensive, however being price competitive isn't really in apple's DNA. They don't care about people who can't afford their products. And why should they, their customers are profitable. I know it sucks, but you know what: join the club. If I had money, or a generous employer footing the bill, there would be tons of expensive things I'd like to get my hands on, but I've always had to make my money stretch even when it means buying less known brands and refurbs.

I'll browse for the products I want, and then I have to see where I can make concessions to make it more affordable, which has always ruled out apple computers under my budget. Oh well, that's just life. Ironically apple laptops like the MBP are inadequate for my requirements anyways due to the lack of ports and features that I need - even if I could afford the sticker price. Hint: I dock a lot of points if I'm going to need external dongles.

Edited 2017-06-08 02:09 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Agreed.
by CaptainN- on Thu 8th Jun 2017 03:20 UTC
CaptainN-
Member since:
2005-07-07

That is all.

Reply Score: 2

You've got it all wrong
by The123king on Thu 8th Jun 2017 08:01 UTC
The123king
Member since:
2009-05-28

What Apple need to do is release a nerfed version of macOS for generic PC's.

By all means, remove any and all Apple services from it, such as messages and the App store, so it's not cannibalising their hardware sales too much, and just license it like Microsoft licenses Windows.

Heck, they could slap a $200 price tag on it, and i'm sure the hackintosh community would still buy it.

Reply Score: 3

RE: You've got it all wrong
by Chupakabra on Thu 8th Jun 2017 08:09 UTC in reply to "You've got it all wrong"
Chupakabra Member since:
2017-05-29

That would be horrible idea. The very reason why Mac OS X / macOS is so highly regarded is precisely because it only runs on tightly controlled hardware, which allows Apple to deliver greatly polished user experience 100% of the time. Releasing macOS for generic hardware would be self-sabotaging move.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: You've got it all wrong
by unclefester on Thu 8th Jun 2017 10:27 UTC in reply to "RE: You've got it all wrong"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

That would be horrible idea. The very reason why Mac OS X / macOS is so highly regarded is precisely because it only runs on tightly controlled hardware, which allows Apple to deliver greatly polished user experience 100% of the time. Releasing macOS for generic hardware would be self-sabotaging move.


What a load of BS. Apple uses totally generic PC hardware. The only thing stopping Frankenmacs is Apples' desire for huge profit margins.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: You've got it all wrong
by Chupakabra on Thu 8th Jun 2017 10:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: You've got it all wrong"
Chupakabra Member since:
2017-05-29

What a load of BS. Apple uses totally generic PC hardware. The only thing stopping Frankenmacs is Apples' desire for huge profit margins.

Yes, totally generic COMPONENTS, but each single computer/laptop is assembled according to their specs, precisely put together and orchestrated to work well as a system.
Did you ever see what kind of abominations novice "PC builders" put together? Quite often what they "build" is such a crap bucket that any OS would be horrible running on it...

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: You've got it all wrong
by The123king on Thu 8th Jun 2017 13:23 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: You've got it all wrong"
The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

Can't be any worse than my Macbook Air, with its lethargic 1.8GHz CPU, 4GB of SOLDERED RAM, and a puny 128GB SSD

And Apple sell this shit for $800! In fact, there are phones out there faster than my shitty piece of shit macbook air!

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/15/iphone-7-faster-than-macbook-ai...

Edited 2017-06-08 13:25 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: You've got it all wrong
by Chupakabra on Thu 8th Jun 2017 13:46 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: You've got it all wrong"
Chupakabra Member since:
2017-05-29

Can't be any worse than my Macbook Air, with its lethargic 1.8GHz CPU, 4GB of SOLDERED RAM, and a puny 128GB SSD

And Apple sell this shit for $800! In fact, there are phones out there faster than my shitty piece of shit macbook air!

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/09/15/iphone-7-faster-than-macbook-ai...

I never understood why would anyone in their right mind would buy MacBook Air... MacBook Pro is the way to go.
MacBook Air is basically just a pretty typewriter — enough to run some kind of notepad/wordpad, and that's it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: You've got it all wrong
by leos on Thu 8th Jun 2017 18:45 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: You've got it all wrong"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

Can't be any worse than my Macbook Air, with its lethargic 1.8GHz CPU, 4GB of SOLDERED RAM, and a puny 128GB SSD

And Apple sell this shit for $800! In fact, there are phones out there faster than my shitty piece of shit macbook air!


Why are you pointing out that you made a bad purchase decision? Maybe think about what you are buying in the future before you buy it?

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: You've got it all wrong
by The123king on Fri 9th Jun 2017 13:15 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: You've got it all wrong"
The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

Who said I bought it?

Anyway, it's still faster, lighter and has better graphics than my 2011 MBP

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: You've got it all wrong
by vocivus on Thu 8th Jun 2017 16:05 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: You've got it all wrong"
vocivus Member since:
2010-03-13


Did you ever see what kind of abominations novice "PC builders" put together? Quite often what they "build" is such a crap bucket that any OS would be horrible running on it...

Speaking of abominations, have you used the new MBPro? That's a rickety pile of crap for the price of a gold rickety pile of crap.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: You've got it all wrong
by Chupakabra on Fri 9th Jun 2017 07:41 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: You've got it all wrong"
Chupakabra Member since:
2017-05-29

"
Did you ever see what kind of abominations novice "PC builders" put together? Quite often what they "build" is such a crap bucket that any OS would be horrible running on it...

Speaking of abominations, have you used the new MBPro? That's a rickety pile of crap for the price of a gold rickety pile of crap.
"
You mean the one with "butterfly keyboard" and "Genius bar"? Yeah, I totally agree with you. I use 15" 2015 MacBook Pro instead.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: You've got it all wrong
by unclefester on Fri 9th Jun 2017 03:15 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: You've got it all wrong"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13


Yes, totally generic COMPONENTS, but each single computer/laptop is assembled according to their specs, precisely put together and orchestrated to work well as a system.


Just like HP. Dell and every other manufacturer.

Did you ever see what kind of abominations novice "PC builders" put together? Quite often what they "build" is such a crap bucket that any OS would be horrible running on it...


Apple have made more than their fair share of shit laptops and PCs over the years.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: You've got it all wrong
by Chupakabra on Fri 9th Jun 2017 07:43 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: You've got it all wrong"
Chupakabra Member since:
2017-05-29

Just like HP. Dell and every other manufacturer.

Does HP and Dell also make their own OS, tailored to their systems? No? So what are you talking about here?

Apple have made more than their fair share of shit laptops and PCs over the years.

Such as?.. Give me examples, and why exactly were they "shit".

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: You've got it all wrong
by unclefester on Fri 9th Jun 2017 10:36 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: You've got it all wrong"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

MacOS is based on an open source project (Darwin) which is in turn based on the Berkeley System Distribution (BSD). BSD is an implementation of Unix (Bell Labs). Huge slabs of the MacOS code are still taken directly from open source projects.

If you think that Apple actually writes it's own graphics, printer drivers etc you have rocks in your head,

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: You've got it all wrong
by CATs on Fri 9th Jun 2017 11:07 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: You've got it all wrong"
CATs Member since:
2017-06-09

If you think that Apple actually writes it's own graphics, printer drivers etc you have rocks in your head,

Where did I say that?..

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: You've got it all wrong
by halvor on Thu 8th Jun 2017 10:51 UTC in reply to "RE: You've got it all wrong"
halvor Member since:
2014-07-01

I have a Hackintosh running very well. Actually it is pretty stable and fun to use. I have to admit that it took a weekend to get everything up and running, but that was mainly the getting used to part of things. I haven't had to reinstall the OS in over a year, but knowing how to get things done, it wouldn't take much time now. And imagine if Apple released a Clover-like bootloader and additional configuring tools...

But then again, I might be lucky that most of the parts I have are nearly supported out of the box. But honestly, I never had a kernel panic or anything.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: You've got it all wrong
by Chupakabra on Thu 8th Jun 2017 11:34 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: You've got it all wrong"
Chupakabra Member since:
2017-05-29

I have a Hackintosh running very well. Actually it is pretty stable and fun to use. I have to admit that it took a weekend to get everything up and running, but that was mainly the getting used to part of things. I haven't had to reinstall the OS in over a year, but knowing how to get things done, it wouldn't take much time now. And imagine if Apple released a Clover-like bootloader and additional configuring tools...

But then again, I might be lucky that most of the parts I have are nearly supported out of the box. But honestly, I never had a kernel panic or anything.

Exactly. You are lucky (and smart enough) to do that properly. Now imagine if macOS/OS X was available for every wannabe PC builder to try and slap it onto the frankensystem he just unleashed upon the world... OS X/macOS would loose it's "magic aura" of being perfectly polished and rock-solid in a blink of an eye. That's the curse of Windows OS, too — MS has to try very hard to make it run somewhat acceptably on any possible random combination of el. cheapo hardware with crappy drivers, even though parts of the PC don't want to work together at all.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: You've got it all wrong
by unclefester on Fri 9th Jun 2017 03:41 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: You've got it all wrong"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

Exactly. You are lucky (and smart enough) to do that properly. Now imagine if macOS/OS X was available for every wannabe PC builder to try and slap it onto the frankensystem he just unleashed upon the world... OS X/macOS would loose it's "magic aura" of being perfectly polished and rock-solid in a blink of an eye. That's the curse of Windows OS, too — MS has to try very hard to make it run somewhat acceptably on any possible random combination of el. cheapo hardware with crappy drivers, even though parts of the PC don't want to work together at all.


All internal hardware is generic. The crappy driver problem was solved decades ago. Windows has been solid and reliable since 1999 (Windows 2000). Linux has been rock solid and easy to use for at least 15 years.

You can easily build a fast desktop system that will work flawlessly with Windows, Linux and the BSDs for <$300.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: You've got it all wrong
by Chupakabra on Fri 9th Jun 2017 07:51 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: You've got it all wrong"
Chupakabra Member since:
2017-05-29

All internal hardware is generic.

Is there any other kind? Special-made, custom hardware chiseled by hand from blocks of silicon? Of course all hardware is generic, unless you have some kind of personal contract with chip makers... The point is, how you put together those generic pieces.

The crappy driver problem was solved decades ago.

Now you're just crossing over to imaginary land. Not sure who exactly solved crappy driver problem for you, but there are loads of crappy drivers out there and there will probably always be. The art is to pick the hardware with drivers that are NOT crappy.
Windows has been solid and reliable since 1999 (Windows 2000).

Windows by themselves -- yes, of course. And yet BSODs, hangs and crashes caused by shit hardware and shit drivers are still oh so common...
Linux has been rock solid and easy to use for at least 15 years.

Going to that imaginary land again... Easy to use for Linux geek — maybe. For regular user — no way. I have tried to switch to Linux on desktop myself several times in last few years — failed, too many problems with hardware drivers and lack of consistency/polish in UI and tools.

You can easily build a fast desktop system that will work flawlessly with Windows, Linux and the BSDs for

You can, but there are many people who cannot — that's exactly my point. Mac is for those people who cannot (or don't want to) build their own systems.

Edited 2017-06-09 07:55 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: You've got it all wrong
by unclefester on Fri 9th Jun 2017 10:58 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: You've got it all wrong"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

"All internal hardware is generic.

Is there any other kind? Special-made, custom hardware chiseled by hand from blocks of silicon? Of course all hardware is generic, unless you have some kind of personal contract with chip makers... The point is, how you put together those generic pieces.

The crappy driver problem was solved decades ago.

Now you're just crossing over to imaginary land. Not sure who exactly solved crappy driver problem for you, but there are loads of crappy drivers out there and there will probably always be. The art is to pick the hardware with drivers that are NOT crappy.
Windows has been solid and reliable since 1999 (Windows 2000).

Windows by themselves -- yes, of course. And yet BSODs, hangs and crashes caused by shit hardware and shit drivers are still oh so common...
Linux has been rock solid and easy to use for at least 15 years.

Going to that imaginary land again... Easy to use for Linux geek — maybe. For regular user — no way. I have tried to switch to Linux on desktop myself several times in last few years — failed, too many problems with hardware drivers and lack of consistency/polish in UI and tools.

You can easily build a fast desktop system that will work flawlessly with Windows, Linux and the BSDs for

You can, but there are many people who cannot — that's exactly my point. Mac is for those people who cannot (or don't want to) build their own systems.
"

You are just trolling.

Apple was selling 1980s shit OS9 and running totally outdated Motorola CPUs and weird prprietary hardware (nuBus, ADB etc) when Steve Jobs was rehired. They only survived by switching to NeXT (BSD) and standard PC hardware.

Nobody has ever been forced to build a PC. They were sold fully assembled and running compatible software by IBM more than three years before the first Mac was even sold.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: You've got it all wrong
by CATs on Fri 9th Jun 2017 11:19 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: You've got it all wrong"
CATs Member since:
2017-06-09

Apple was selling 1980s shit OS9 and running totally outdated Motorola CPUs and weird prprietary hardware (nuBus, ADB etc) when Steve Jobs was rehired. They only survived by switching to NeXT (BSD) and standard PC hardware.

OK, agreed, Apple was crap back then (although I'm not sure alternatives were that much better).

Nobody has ever been forced to build a PC. They were sold fully assembled and running compatible software by IBM more than three years before the first Mac was even sold.

So?.. What's your point here? How does that contribute to the argument of Apple releasing OS X for everyone to use on anything?
I used to be a harsh Apple critic myself, but after trying a MacBook as a daily driver for several months I realized that there's simply no other manufacturer (either IBM, HP, Dell, or anyone else) that can provide such a synergy between hardware and software + such a polished and pleasant user experience.
Slapping OS X on many random hardware configurations would break that experience completely (miserable battery life, inadequate performance, degraded visuals due to cheap TN panels in generic laptops, other inconsistencies, OEM bloatware injected into OS, etc. etc.)

Reply Score: 2

RE: You've got it all wrong
by Darkmage on Thu 8th Jun 2017 08:12 UTC in reply to "You've got it all wrong"
Darkmage Member since:
2006-10-20

There already is, it's called GNUstep and if people want it to be better pick up a swift/objective-c book and get coding. Apple doesn't owe you shit, and all the people saying that Linux people should just get coding on WINE etc. Well get coding on GNUstep too because it's in the same boat. With a bit of love to system preferences.app and the base libraries it'd be pretty mac like. Needs the webkit port finished, system preferences updated for audio/video/networking. Combine it with Etoile's Apple style menu bar and a better theme and you have something approaching OSX. There was a time when people aspired for Linux to be more: http://jesseross.com/clients/etoile/ui/concepts/01/workspace_300.jp...

Edited 2017-06-08 08:19 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: You've got it all wrong
by The123king on Thu 8th Jun 2017 09:33 UTC in reply to "RE: You've got it all wrong"
The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

source code compatibility is not very useful to the end user. Now, if they ported it to Darwin and made an effort at binary compatibility, maybe it would be more useful

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: You've got it all wrong
by Dave_K on Fri 9th Jun 2017 22:07 UTC in reply to "RE: You've got it all wrong"
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

There already is, it's called GNUstep and if people want it to be better pick up a swift/objective-c book and get coding.


To me the reason to use Mac OS X is that it's an alternative to Windows that's able to run commercial software unavailable on Linux.

Making GNUstep look like Mac OS X unfortunately doesn't give it the ability to run Lightroom and Photoshop...

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: You've got it all wrong
by CATs on Mon 12th Jun 2017 11:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: You've got it all wrong"
CATs Member since:
2017-06-09

"There already is, it's called GNUstep and if people want it to be better pick up a swift/objective-c book and get coding.


To me the reason to use Mac OS X is that it's an alternative to Windows that's able to run commercial software unavailable on Linux.

Making GNUstep look like Mac OS X unfortunately doesn't give it the ability to run Lightroom and Photoshop...
"
That's precisely the reason why OS X was really the only viable alternative for me. I don't do much work or productivity on my home computer, but when I do, it's usually in Adobe Lightroom.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Chupakabra
by Chupakabra on Thu 8th Jun 2017 08:12 UTC
Chupakabra
Member since:
2017-05-29

Apple needs to? Let me get this clear: Apple does not _need_ anything. It's YOU who _want_ Apple to do this and that.
And it's not going to happen just because you rephrase the sentence "I want them to..." as "They need to...".

Reply Score: 1

If you want a cheap PC...
by yerverluvinunclebert on Thu 8th Jun 2017 08:37 UTC
yerverluvinunclebert
Member since:
2014-05-03

If you want a cheap PC then there are many better performing and less expensive machines out there. You can buy a really snazzy case, even an older apple case and put it in that. Guess how much I miss buying an Apple device? Not at all.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Sidux
by Sidux on Thu 8th Jun 2017 08:50 UTC
Sidux
Member since:
2015-03-10

Don't they sell now an external enclosure with built in RX 580?
Apple will never give up its minimalist design they are known for. This does not go well with dedicated GPU's running at their full potential.
Even most gaming laptops do this by not providing full power to the GPU and letting it thermal throttle to keep the temperature down and battery life at acceptable levels.

Reply Score: 1

Apple Products are an Appliance. Period.
by slobu on Thu 8th Jun 2017 11:54 UTC
slobu
Member since:
2008-01-07

You don't upgrade your washer. You may get a more energy efficient model someday. Heck, maybe from the same brand.

Asking Apple to be more "PC" is a waste of breath.

Reply Score: 1

Ha ha...
by dionicio on Thu 8th Jun 2017 13:56 UTC
dionicio
Member since:
2006-07-12

Google will be able soon. As for Apple, time will tell.

Reply Score: 2

eGPU
by osvil on Thu 8th Jun 2017 14:37 UTC
osvil
Member since:
2012-10-25

My bet is that the modular mac pro is going to be based on eGPU. I don't think there is any "engineering" reason not to have one box ready unless they are seeking to do another trashcan... that would be suicide.

Only reason to wait for next year would be, IMO, some key technology that is not yet ready (another thunderbolt iteration?) that would make that possible.

Creating an eGPU market that is open (as a peripheral) for both nvidia and amd to enter. Then build the "hub" computer (something that in size could be in line with mac minis) with a "consumer" and "pro" (xeon, ecc, more thunderbolt connectors, etc...) versions could make sense for Apple.

They already made storage external in the previous macbook pro (the internal SSD wasn't big enough for serious pro use without an external storage solution, IMO).

This will allow to treat each of the different parts as a whole product. Each module in a different enclosure. No need to go beyond connecting some cables. It will cost extra, but Apple doesn't care about that.

Reply Score: 1

Not really though
by Soulbender on Fri 9th Jun 2017 03:33 UTC
Soulbender
Member since:
2005-08-18

Considering how well Apple is doing they really don't have to do that.

Reply Score: 2