Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 10:42 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless

Over the weekend, people with review units of the Pixel 2 XL began noticing a problem. No, not the already-known issues of muddy color and grainy textures when viewed in low-light, but one that's potentially more worrisome: screen burn-in. First reported on Twitter by Android Central's Alex Dobie, multiple people have noticed that when you look at the screen with a gray background, you can see faint outlines of the phone's navigation buttons on the bottom.

You can see it below, and I can confirm I'm seeing something similar on my own review unit.

The display problems of the Pixel 2 XL - due to its LG-made panel - are baffling. Google claims it's getting serious about hardware, but putting a panel in your flagship phone that isn't only sub-par when it's working, but is also showing burn-in after mere days of use, is wholly and utterly inexcusable. This is not a budget, €150 phone - this is a flagship phone with a flagship price, and consumers deserve better than this clearly garbage display.

Another year, another round of flagships, another year of the iPhone simply being the best all-round option for most, normal people. For most average, normal people, the iPhone will give them an easy-to-use, secure, and updated phone with a decent resale value two to three years down the line. Additionally, Apple Stores or official Apple retailers are widespread, so you often have easy access to in-person customer service.

Samsung/HTC/LG phones don't get updates - or only six months after the fact - but carry the same flagship price, often leaving their users with insecure and out of date software. The Nexus program no longer exists, and Google's Pixel phones are only available in like 2 countries, and on top of that, its flagship model has a display worse than my Palm T|X. The Android market is in a terrible state right now.

Anybody who doesn't care about software and hardware the way most of us do is, years and years in, still best served by an iPhone. Depending on budget, get an iPhone 6S, 7, or 8 (forget the ridiculously overpriced iPhone X); the Android world simply doesn't have a phone that can compete with any of those three - and that's a sad state of affairs. Google has been wholly unable to address the biggest problems Android suffers from - most notably, updates - and we're way past the point where this can be excused without really scraping the bottom of the barrel of excuses.

Suggesting non-nerdy, regular people get an Android phone at this point in time is simply irresponsible.

Order by: Score:
Why I switched to an iPhone
by cjbreisch on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 11:33 UTC
cjbreisch
Member since:
2017-06-29

I used to own Windows Phones way back when. They were the HTC ones that were amazing at the time. I even had custom ROMs.

I eventually switched to Android because it became difficult to get a true "flagship" phone running a Microsoft OS.

But, here's the event that switched me to iPhone for now and for the foreseeable future.

I had a problem with my HTC Android. I took it to Best Buy because that's where I bought it and I had their extended warranty or insurance plan or whatever they called it.

They told me that they couldn't replace it, and that they'd have to send it to HTC for repair/replacement, and that it would take two weeks. In the meantime they gave me this absolutely awful piece of crap Samsung device. It ended up only taking less than a week to get my phone back, but the experience still turned me off Android phones.

If you have a problem with your iPhone, you go to the Apple store, and you walk out with a new (refurb) or fixed phone. Period. They never tell you that it will be two weeks and give you some crappy 3 generations behind phone.

Yes, you pay extra for that convenience, but it's worth it.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Why I switched to an iPhone
by Trebus on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 11:50 UTC in reply to "Why I switched to an iPhone"
Trebus Member since:
2012-04-11

That is the same situation as with Pixel phone - Apple stores maybe exists but not in my country. On the contrary Samsung has a service center in my city, but nearest Apple store is hundreds km away.

Edited 2017-10-23 11:52 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Why I switched to an iPhone
by rft183 on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 19:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Why I switched to an iPhone"
rft183 Member since:
2005-08-11

I live in the United States, but even for me, the Apple Store is too far away. The nearest one is about 125 miles (200km) away. So I'd be waiting for a replacement iPhone just the same as a Pixel or other Android.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Why I switched to an iPhone
by avgalen on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 12:13 UTC in reply to "Why I switched to an iPhone"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

If you have a problem with your iPhone, you go to the Apple store, and you walk out with a new (refurb) or fixed phone. Period. They never tell you that it will be two weeks and give you some crappy 3 generations behind phone.

Yes, you pay extra for that convenience, but it's worth it.

This myth has to stop. You only get that if you have Apple Care, it isn't the default and it isn't what happens most of the time anyway because "the Genius's genuinely care about you". If this would be the norm, why does Apple care exist?
You pay extra because Apple sells a good product without major weaknesses for an extremely high price that benefits the bottomline of Apple. If you think their price/benefit ratio is good, buy the product and enjoy it!

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Why I switched to an iPhone
by fedyac on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 14:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Why I switched to an iPhone"
fedyac Member since:
2017-03-27

Wrong : my girlfriend had a problem with its iPhone that was randomly rebooting. We went to the Apple Store and the genius couldn't reproduce the issue but he exchanged the phone anyway and we didn't have Apple Care.

Edited 2017-10-23 14:15 UTC

Reply Score: 2

henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

This myth has to stop.


No, it's not. It was my exact experience too. Twice.

You only get that if you have Apple Care, it isn't the default and it isn't what happens most of the time anyway because "the Genius's genuinely care about you".


The genius's have discretion. If they believe you are genuine. If you are polite. If you don't attack them/Apple/the product, there's a lot of wiggle room. My iPhone 3G was about 2 months out of Applecare and it was replaced because there were stress cracks in the plastic case. No questions. On the day.

Second time, but iPhone 3GS digitizer stopped working. Again, I walked in - new screen. That one, I believe, was still in Warranty. But they didn't really even care, they offered me a refurb or a repair. The refurb only had a 3 month warranty, the phone was't that old and certainly had more than 3 months of Applecare, so I took the repair (which was done whilst I waited.) The genius really didn't try to push me in either direction. I was just given the options and he stood there whilst i weighed them up and gave me the advice that the screen repair didn't in any way shorten the Applecare period.

If this would be the norm, why does Apple care exist?


To pay for this stuff. It partially funds the genius experience I am guessing.

Reply Score: 3

avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

The genius's have discretion. If they believe you are genuine. If you are polite. If you don't attack them/Apple/the product, there's a lot of wiggle room.

Same with other shops and brands, but that doesn't mean that walking in with a broken phone and no Apple Care and walking out with a new phone "no questions asked" is the norm!

"If this would be the norm, why does Apple care exist?

To pay for this stuff. It partially funds the genius experience I am guessing.
"
So you are saying that you don't need to have Apple Care to receive Apple Care service, but that Apple Care exists to pay for Apple Care service. So basically there are people paying for the same thing that you apparently get for free if you are polite....no, that doesn't make sense

Reply Score: 5

henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

So basically there are people paying for the same thing that you apparently get for free


No. I'm saying that good will and politeness never hurts. The cost comes out of Apple's pocket. If you have Applecare you are guaranteed to be covered by those terms. If you walk in to a store with the same issue and no Applecare, you might be covered still - but it is a the discretion of the Genius. More often than not, the common issues get fixed. I think this will work out cheaper for Apple, because what else is there? Class action (or similar)? You don't have to be a "genius" to know that quietly fixing a product that is faulty outside of the Warranty makes sense (and as you asserted - quite common anyway.) All we are trying to establish here is - it is not a "myth".

Reply Score: 1

avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

"So basically there are people paying for the same thing that you apparently get for free


No. I'm saying that good will and politeness never hurts. The cost comes out of Apple's pocket. If you have Applecare you are guaranteed to be covered by those terms. If you walk in to a store with the same issue and no Applecare, you might be covered still - but it is a the discretion of the Genius. More often than not, the common issues get fixed. I think this will work out cheaper for Apple, because what else is there? Class action (or similar)? You don't have to be a "genius" to know that quietly fixing a product that is faulty outside of the Warranty makes sense (and as you asserted - quite common anyway.) All we are trying to establish here is - it is not a "myth".
"
I mostly agree with you here but you have significantly moved the goalpost from the myth that I think needs busting. That myth is:
If you have a problem with your iPhone, you go to the Apple store, and you walk out with a new (refurb) or fixed phone. Period.

Recap:
Getting most common issues fixed is normal for every seller and every product.
Getting better service for newer and more expensive products is normal.
Buying extra warranty (like Apple Care) and getting your product fixed free of charge is normal.
Walking into an Apple Store with a broken product and walking out with a perfectly working product free of charge every time is a myth

Edited 2017-10-24 10:20 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Why I switched to an iPhone
by kwanbis on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 14:59 UTC in reply to "Why I switched to an iPhone"
kwanbis Member since:
2005-07-06

I have been an iPhone user only twice (iPhone 1 and 2), and then I moved to Android.

I have used G1, Dream, Magic, Motorola, HTC, then Nexus 4, 5, 5x, 6p, and now a Google Pixel that I bought second hand.

I bought the Pixel from an user with more than 700 qualification at Ebay. I charged the Pixel, and was able to use it without any complains from Google whatsoever.

Then, after about 6 months of use, it died after an OTA. I called Google and I was told that the phone was still associated to the old owner, and that it was nothing they could do unless the old owner approved.

I understand trying to protect phones, but, why implement it like this? If I find an iPhone, and try to use it, I intermediately get asked the user/pass of the old user. Not in this case. I was able to use it for 6 months, and only when calling google for support I was told about this.

How can it be that while the phone worked, there was no problem of me using the phone, but as soon as they had to invest money to repair it, I am no longer good? By the way, the mother f*ker seller never again reponded.

This is my last Google phone, and probably my last android.

Edited 2017-10-23 14:59 UTC

Reply Score: 6

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Wow, i think that's one of the weakest rage-quit stories i've ever read!

I love how you used a ton of android devices, and then only decided it was terrible when you bought a used phone that the previous owner didn't properly "release" and got angry. Cool story bro!

On the other hand, I've purchased 5 different pre-owned android phones (4 of which were Nexus models), and never had the issue you described.

Reply Score: 5

kwanbis Member since:
2005-07-06

Because I don't need a lot of bad experiences to have a change of mind.

My point is that it is plain bad user service. I now have a 500 dollars paperweight.

Reply Score: 2

supergear Member since:
2007-07-06

not really a paperweight if you know how to root and flash a rom and such.
just sayin

Reply Score: 1

The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

Mines probably weaker

I got a HTC One M7 on contract. Lovely android phone, beautiful hardware design, but the thing kept shoving adverts in my face. Thing got sold within 2 weeks of owning it, and i went back to my old iPhone 4. Never touched android again.

Edited 2017-10-25 08:08 UTC

Reply Score: 0

RE: Why I switched to an iPhone
by Morgan on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 15:44 UTC in reply to "Why I switched to an iPhone"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Yes, you pay extra for that convenience, but it's worth it.


That's exactly it: The premium you pay for an iPhone or a Mac isn't just because Apple is greedy, you actually get first-rate customer service.

Reply Score: 5

The sad truth and Treble won't fix it.
by moondevil on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 11:38 UTC
moondevil
Member since:
2005-07-08

I kind of agree, and I while I do enjoy leaving in a country that gives me the access to iPhone without thinking too much about it, the majority of the world doesn't live in such wealthy conditions.

So getting an iPhone vs Android device is mostly a first world problem, non existing in countries where getting any kind of mobile phone is already a social achievement.

As citizen of the world, these are the people that fill my thoughts, not what kind of device I can afford myself.

And these people sadly won't see any difference, even with Project Treble, because they need to buy a device with Android O to start with, with Google leaving the actual update process to OEMs even on Treble certified devices, as always.

http://androidbackstage.blogspot.de/2017/08/episode-75-project-treb...

http://connect.linaro.org/resource/sfo17/sfo17-400k1/

So expect zero reaction from OEMs to provide updates even with Treble, and telling people to buy a device that costs between 2 to 4 times their monthly salary won't fix this.

Reply Score: 6

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Hm, and what ever happened to Android One? ;) That was something for "normal, average people" in a way no Pixel or iPhone are.

Reply Score: 3

I hate the iPhone
by jbauer on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 11:47 UTC
jbauer
Member since:
2005-07-06

But I do have to agree. There's no way you can be objective on this subject and not agree on this, sadly.

Reply Score: 4

RE: I hate the iPhone
by Yeti on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 11:59 UTC in reply to "I hate the iPhone"
Yeti Member since:
2005-07-11

But of course, "most" people buy flagships, right? Right?

My next phone will be most likely a Xiaomi or Meizu, heck even an Oukitel K10000 seems interesting. But I'm not "most people" so I won't buy an overpriced flagship...

Reply Score: 6

On the market for a new handset
by balaknair on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 11:53 UTC
balaknair
Member since:
2013-11-02

I'm pinning my hopes on Nokia. Waiting to see when the Nokia 8 gets the Oreo update before buying though. The main reason I'm considering Nokia is their promise of updates, and of course nostalgia.
Samsung manufactures the best hardware, and after sales service is reasonable here in India, but their software support cycle is crap even for the flagship devices. Xiaomi, Huawei et al also have good hardware but with a ton of bloatware on top. Motorola used to be great with software updates till Lenovo came along.
That leaves OnePlus and Nokia. So far they both seem to have done a good job, with hardware quality and clean bloat-free up-to-date software. Aggressive pricing is the icing on the cake. Nostalgia for Nokia tips the scale in their favour for me.
Please don't let me down, Nokia/HMD Global.

Reply Score: 4

Regular Updates
by arpan on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 11:56 UTC
arpan
Member since:
2006-07-30

Another important thing to remember is that because

* Apple supports their devices for quite a long time
* Apple's A-series CPUs are really good
* iOS performance vs Android performance

for most users, an iPhone SE/6S performs as well as the latest Android flagships AND will probably receive updates for a longer period of time inspite of being 3 years old already. Because of this, you can't even use the price argument against Apple anymore.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Regular Updates
by zima on Wed 25th Oct 2017 11:28 UTC in reply to "Regular Updates"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Though Apple also pushes old phones to consumers much longer than other manufacturers, so it would be perhaps more apt to note for how long they support their phones counting from the end of sales.

Reply Score: 3

Privilege
by avgalen on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 12:04 UTC
avgalen
Member since:
2010-09-23

Depending on budget, get an iPhone 6S, 7, or 8 (forget the ridiculously overpriced iPhone X

So "depending on budget" this means I have to spend at least € 529 for a smartphone? (source: https://www.apple.com/nl/shop/buy-iphone/iphone6s) and then I get a phone with 32 GB and a "720p" 4.7 inch screen.
(Basically the specs from my Nokia Lumia 1020 from 4 years ago that was roughly that price 4 years ago)
It isn't just the iPhone X that is ridiculously overpriced, it is all of these phones. That also includes the Pixel prices btw!
Why is it that websites never talk about the phones most people actually use which would be the low-to-midrange models that are in the 200-400 range and seem to work just fine for everyone that is using their phones for communicating instead of running geekbench over and over again?

Reply Score: 8

RE: Privilege
by shotsman on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 12:17 UTC in reply to "Privilege"
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

What about the secondhand market?
I buy from that. Either Pawn Shops or SEcondhand shops.
Then there are the refurb phones from Apple themselves.

You don't have to pay'new'prices.

Once the iPhone X has been out for a few months there will even be plenty of iPhone 8's available.
Let the 'must have the latest shiny-shiny' people waste their money.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Privilege
by avgalen on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 13:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Privilege"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

What about the secondhand market?

Thom is not talking about that and comparing prices from the secondhand market is really difficult because of the quality differences.

I personally buy my phones from secondhand markets or auctions as well (80 Euro for a Lumia 1520 in perfect state with a perfect battery as well).

Reply Score: 4

RE: Privilege
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 13:56 UTC in reply to "Privilege"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

https://www.apple.com/nl/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se

That has the same guts of the 6s, but at a lower cost.

Also, true cost should be measured as cost per year of ownership.

If I buy a cheap phone for 200 Euros that lasts one year, a midrange for 400 that lasts 2 years, or a flagship that costs 600 and lasts 3 years, they effectively have the same cost of 200 Euros per year.

I'd submit that an iphone 8 at 800 euros might also last five years while still getting updates and support, which might be better than any of the others on the list.

Of course I'd actually recommend that person instead buy a gently used iphone 7 for around 400 Euros instead, but if we are only talking new phones it makes sense.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Privilege
by avgalen on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 20:18 UTC in reply to "RE: Privilege"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

https://www.apple.com/nl/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se

That has the same guts of the 6s, but at a lower cost.

That was not in the list from Thom and doesn't just have lower cost (still 419 Euro for 32GB) but also just a 4" screen with "640p" resolution which basically means that typing on the virtual keyboard with my fingers would be a nightmare. It is normal for Apple to "upcharge" a bigger screen for 100 Euro but "downcharging" 100 Euro for an even smaller screen is apparently also possible.

Also, true cost should be measured as cost per year of ownership.

Correct, that is why I bought several Lumia 1520 that I expect to last for about 5 years and cost me less than 100 Euro per year while still feeling highend and getting updates and support.

But it seems that the people that buy the highend phones that should last the longest are also the people that replace it with another highend phone the next year.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Privilege
by henderson101 on Tue 24th Oct 2017 07:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Privilege"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

which basically means that typing on the virtual keyboard with my fingers would be a nightmare.


This is essentially the same as the iPhone 4[s] in size. I had to lol at your fat fingers. I'm over 2 metres tall, and obviously have therefore big hands and pretty fat fingers. I used an iPhone 3G, 3Gs and 4 through full lifetime of those devices. The keyboard is fine. I genuinely think the iPhone keyboard is one of thebetter on screen keyboards. The legacy Android one was pretty good (before they removed the key divisions - though I used to turn them back on.) Windows Phone was the worst - abysmal, though it might just be the digitizer being pretty crappy on the phone I own.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Privilege
by avgalen on Tue 24th Oct 2017 10:06 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Privilege"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

(We are getting way off topic, talking about typing on a 4" phone in 2017)
My fingers aren't fat, but there is no denying that typing on a 4" screen is much more errorprone to typing on a 6" screen.

The original Windows Phone 8 keyboard on my 4.7" 1020 was just good enough for typing very short messages.
With the introduction of the Swiping keyboard I suddenly started to respond to email with full sentences and send proper whatsapp's and edit shopping lists directly on the phone. With my 6.0" 1520 I can comfortably type rather long pieces of text.
The iPhones keyboard on my iPad 2 was one of the worst for many reasons not even related to size but on/off capitals, lack of swiping, etc.
Virtual keyboards have come a long way in the last few years and I am happy that the one in Windows 10 1709 now finally supports swiping as well.
....but there is no way I am going to use a 4" phone!

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Privilege
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Tue 24th Oct 2017 14:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Privilege"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

That was not in the list from Thom and doesn't just have lower cost (still 419 Euro for 32GB) but also just a 4" screen with "640p" resolution which basically means that typing on the virtual keyboard with my fingers would be a nightmare. It is normal for Apple to "upcharge" a bigger screen for 100 Euro but "downcharging" 100 Euro for an even smaller screen is apparently also possible.


You know, it wasn't that long ago that a 4 inch screen was considered large...

Correct, that is why I bought several Lumia 1520 that I expect to last for about 5 years and cost me less than 100 Euro per year while still feeling highend and getting updates and support.


Not sure what the security updates looks like for Windows Devices. Anyone know?

I am aware of the promise of Apple like os updates are not the case as only some devices made it to windows 8 from windows 7, and only some of them were upgraded from 8 to 10 and a smaller amount were updated from 10 to 10 creators update. I'd hope they'd all get security updates though.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Privilege
by avgalen on Tue 24th Oct 2017 20:07 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Privilege"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

You know, it wasn't that long ago that a 4 inch screen was considered large...

Only on iOS where there was that whole '3.5"' is the perfect size thing going on. As always Apple let Android do all the pioneering and when they saw that everyone was moving to the bigger screens they still only made the 4" before they finally went into the "medium and large" models that they have been making for the last 3 years.
I started with a Nokia N97 which I would hardly consider a smartphone. The very next thing was a 4.7" 1020 which I considered medium and loved so much that I gave my wife a 6" 1520. Same for my mother and myself.

Not sure what the security updates looks like for Windows Devices. Anyone know?

It is basically the same for Windows 10 Mobile as for normal Windows 10. (patch tuesday every month with bugfixes, "redstone" OS+feature updates twice per year). However devices aren't infinitely supported like they are on normal Windows 10. Microsoft promised that every device that was capable of running Windows 10 mobile (512 MB of RAM, 8 GB of diskspace) would get the upgrade but then reneged on that promise and left most devices behind. However, you could join the Insider Program and move to Windows 10 Mobile anyway. Currently they are about to receive the 1709 update and support will now continue for another 3 years until October 13 2020. Source: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fac... (wikipedia mentions "Mainstream support until June 11, 2019"). In reality nobody is expecting much in terms of OS+Feature updates anymore but the monthly bugfixes keep pouring in for our ancient devices and the latest Krack bug got fixed on my phone before the information became public.

I am aware of the promise of Apple like os updates are not the case as only some devices made it to windows 8 from windows 7, and only some of them were upgraded from 8 to 10 and a smaller amount were updated from 10 to 10 creators update. I'd hope they'd all get security updates though.

The phones that were left behind on 8 continued to get security updates until a few months ago. I could force my 1020 to 10 and I think it would still be on a ring that would receive monthly patches but I am not sure. I will actually grab it from the box, see how it goes, and update this post later.

Reply Score: 4

v RE[5]: Privilege
by fedyac on Tue 24th Oct 2017 20:25 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Privilege"
RE[6]: Privilege
by avgalen on Tue 24th Oct 2017 22:36 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Privilege"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

"As always Apple let Android do all the pioneering
Hu sorry ? Who introduced multitouch ? high dpi display ? 64-bit CPU ? modern fingerprint scanning ? Haptic feedback ? Force Touch... most of these features were introduced on iPhone and were then adopted on Android phones so no this is completely wrong : Android didn’t do all the pioneering, far from it in fact. "
You are right that I went too far with that statement. Clearly Apple introduced/pioneered several of the things you mentioned before Android had them.

I wouldn't actually know anymore which of the ones you mentioned were pioneered by iOS and which by Android. High DPI Display sounds like something that Android had before iOS and haptic feedback sounds like something that all devices had from the very start.
I would actually be interested to read when these features got introduced in general, when in iOS and when in Android

Can we agree that Apple used to be copied by Samsung (and others), but that it is now mostly the other way around? (queue the 'standing on the shoulders of giants')

Reply Score: 4

v RE[7]: Privilege
by fedyac on Wed 25th Oct 2017 09:37 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Privilege"
RE[6]: Privilege
by zima on Thu 26th Oct 2017 16:11 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Privilege"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Cute how you ignored the much more important stage of capacitive touchscreen phone in the shape of currently seen smartphones, and that was LG Prada, almost a year before iPhone...

"Modern" fingerprint scanning was arguably introduced by Huawey, where you don't have to align the finger the way you did on the first scan / works with partial scans.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Privilege
by fedyac on Thu 26th Oct 2017 20:02 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Privilege"
fedyac Member since:
2017-03-27

Cute how you ignored the much more important stage of capacitive touchscreen phone in the shape of currently seen smartphones, and that was LG Prada, almost a year before iPhone


Cute how you’re playing with the release dates : LG Prada was released in May 2007 and the iPhone in June 2007 yeah « almost a year » indeed more like a month... And it wasnt multi touch, its UX paradigm was just buttons that you happened to touch with your finger instead of a stylus but not gestures like what we’re accustomed to with modern smartphones. Its browser was also a joke reminiscent of what was available on old smartphone not a « desktop like » experience.

Nice try but resorting to such a long forgotten phone that did not left a single trace to imply that it was the first modern smartphone sounds like a desparate attempt at rewriting history.

Reply Score: 0

Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by schadfield on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 12:27 UTC
schadfield
Member since:
2012-04-16

Very happy with my Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra thank you very much. I have no interest in overpriced Apple hardware.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 12:50 UTC in reply to "Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Very happy with my Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra thank you very much. I have no interest in overpriced Apple hardware.


Your latest security update is most likely August, possibly earlier. You are running insecure software. In addition, you are running Android Nougat - 7.0, I'm guessing, but it might be 7.1 - which is also outdated, insecure software.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by avgalen on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 13:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

Thom: You still don't seem to understand how Android security updates work. They are mostly separated from the OS and coming through the playstore. That doesn't mean that his phone is secure, but neither is an iPhone: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/16/krack-wifi-vulnerabilities-patc...
^^Note that it says the vulnerability is patched "in betas that are currently available to developers and will be rolling out to consumers soon. "

There is no doubt that the Android situation about updates is far worse than that from Apple but that doesn't seem like something that most people care about (much).

(P.S. I am neither an Android or iPhone user. I use a 4 year old Nokia Lumia 1520 with that "dead" OS that actually got patched before Android and iOS. Just let me gloat about that anomaly while I cry about losing my banking app okay?)

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by Poseidon on Tue 24th Oct 2017 02:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
Poseidon Member since:
2009-10-31

No, that's objectively not true. The kernel or firmware of your android does not get updated even as close as the ones in Apple's devices. This means low level functions and core operating system functions are exposed, regardless of how patched your apps are.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by avgalen on Tue 24th Oct 2017 07:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

No, that's objectively not true.

What is objectively not true? My statement was that both Android and iOS are insecure at the moment because of, among other things, unpatched Krack. My other statement was that the update situation on Android is far worse than on iOS. Both are objectively true.

The kernel or firmware of your android does not get updated even as close as the ones in Apple's devices.

I said I am a Windows Phone user and my 4 year old phone just got the 10.0.15063.674 update, just as it gets its monthly update every month (or more).

This means low level functions and core operating system functions are exposed, regardless of how patched your apps are.

You are correct about the very bottom of the software stack which is only updated with OS-level patches which are much more rare on Android than on iOS. But these patches don't have to be from 7 to 8 (new features) but can also be from 7 to 7.01 (just bugfixes) and those patches are much more common on Android (although still lacking). It is only very rarely that a bug on this level is actually exposed in a way that can be taken advantage of by apps because those apps mostly talk to middle layers that do get updated or those apps get blocked/banned from the store. For example many apps use Google Play Services.
The Google Play services APK is delivered through the Google Play Store, so updates to the services are not dependent on carrier or OEM system image updates. In general, devices running Android 2.3 (API level 9) or later and have the Google Play services app installed receive updates within a few days. This allows you to use the newest APIs in Google Play services and reach most of the devices in the Android ecosystem.

(source https://developers.google.com/android/guides/overview)

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by Poseidon on Tue 24th Oct 2017 16:09 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
Poseidon Member since:
2009-10-31

No, kernel and firmware vulnerabilities are the most serious vulnerabilities, since they’re available to all apps.

They’re also way too many and very rarely patched in most phones.

http://androidvulnerabilities.org/by/category/kernel

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by avgalen on Tue 24th Oct 2017 20:20 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

No, kernel and firmware vulnerabilities are the most serious vulnerabilities, since they’re available to all apps.

They’re also way too many and very rarely patched in most phones.

http://androidvulnerabilities.org/by/category/kernel

Interesting link, but either they stopped collecting kernel bugs or the last one was really 2.5 years ago.
With only 17 of such bugs in the last 7 years it seems trivial for Google to scan apps that get put into the store for abuse of any of these bugs and protect users that way.

Reply Score: 5

RE[7]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by Poseidon on Tue 24th Oct 2017 22:40 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
Poseidon Member since:
2009-10-31

No, there's much much more, that one was just readable. Google can't just blacklist the ones that are affected by those vulnerabilities, that would make them a security vulnerability company, or hiring one, and that's not their focus and it is verifiable that they do not, it's a very open store with little oversight.

https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-1224/product...

They offer rewards to researchers, but there's no way they can automate vulnerability testing on that scale quickly. Not even the best security companies can do that, even with custom built tools and implement them on the Play Store.

https://www.google.com/about/appsecurity/play-rewards/

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by schadfield on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 13:10 UTC in reply to "RE: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
schadfield Member since:
2012-04-16

But how many out of date Android devices are remotely exploited in real life? Apple marketing would be all over such a story if it happened. Where are all the news reports of Android users being harmed because vendors are not patching their handsets? Millions of at risk users. Thousands of bad actors working night and day to exploit them. Are Google suppressing all the news reports?

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by darknexus on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 13:38 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

More than you obviously believe, though they typically come from infested apps rather than direct remote exploitation. You can't even stick to Google Play to avoid those, given how many times Google has had to remove a whole batch of apps after the fact. Now, if Google had the sense to implement mandatory sandboxing...

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by Soulbender on Tue 24th Oct 2017 02:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

The shittiness of the App Story is actually a bigger problem to the average person than security updates (or lack thereof) to the device. The sheer amount of malware (and obvious copyright infringements) is staggering.
While I do like Android the store is clusterfuck disaster.

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by zima on Wed 25th Oct 2017 11:30 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

obvious copyright infringements

You mean some "devs" sell ~cracked apps of other developers? :/

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by Soulbender on Thu 26th Oct 2017 09:19 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Good point, probably more like trademark infringement.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by zima on Thu 26th Oct 2017 19:52 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Ah, I see. Hm, probably comes with the territory of being popular in so-called "3rd world" countries - I remember reading once an article by somebody doing volunteer work in some African country, and one day they discussed ~entrepeneurship ...and an example idea of students was to "make Nike shoes" - they just ignored that it's somebody's trademark.

Reply Score: 3

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Yeah, lots of smoke but no fire yet.

Still, I don't want to stay in the house until I actually see the flames.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by phoudoin on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 14:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

> You are running insecure software.

Sure.
But builtin calculator can do addition correctly at the same speed the user enter it.
Not true for iOS one.

Security is great, but it's not what non-nerdy, regular people are after *at first*.

They're after a good quality/price smartphone they can afford. And what they can afford, on average, don't increase that much anymore since years.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by darknexus on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 14:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Don't troll. It's impolite. There are legitimate criticisms of iOS and you feel you have to make one up. Sheesh.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by phoudoin on Tue 24th Oct 2017 08:49 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

I don't make it up.
Check it by yourself:

https://twitter.com/dangerdave/status/921790333905641472

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by shotsman on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 19:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

So, the Calulator is in your opinion the Number 1 app on IOS?
{shakes head in amazement}

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by phoudoin on Tue 24th Oct 2017 08:48 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

So, the Calulator is in your opinion the Number 1 app on IOS?
{shakes head in amazement}


Nope. Where did I made such claim!?
What I claimed is that functions are number 1.
Security is not a standalone function.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by supergear on Sat 28th Oct 2017 06:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
supergear Member since:
2007-07-06

So you hate Android and love iOS. Keep your bias to yourself.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by fmaxwell on Tue 24th Oct 2017 10:35 UTC in reply to "Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
fmaxwell Member since:
2005-11-13

Very happy with my Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra thank you very much.

But you shouldn't be, because Android 8.0 was released on August 21 and it's still not available for your phone. By contrast, iOS 11 was released a month later on September 19 and it was available for all supported iPhones on that date.

You can find this notice about mobile phone updates on the Sony website:

Why hasn't my device received an update yet?

Software updates are released at different times depending on the operator, market, region or country. Therefore, we cannot give you an exact date for when a specific update will be available for your device. In addition, network operators and specific markets may choose not to use the updates for specific models.

That's a very good reason why people buy iPhones. iPhones get updates immediately, regardless of their "operator, market, region or country." Why would anyone tolerate their mobile phone carrier limiting their access to OS updates, some of which are security-related?

I have no interest in overpriced Apple hardware.

You don't know what percentage of the purchase price of an iPhone goes towards the hardware. Every iPhone includes AppleCare tech support, access to carry-in service at Apple stores all over the world, immediate access to new iOS versions, and access to the curated iOS app store.

Apple products cost more, and retain their value better, because they include superior after-sale services and support.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by zima on Wed 25th Oct 2017 12:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

You live in a bubble. Most of the Android world doesn't care about carrier restrictions because they own their phone outright, bought independently of a carrier (and are on prepaid)

Also, we have some pretty good estimates (from ifixit or the like) of the price of iPhone hardware, in light of them iPhones are definately overpriced...
BTW, how's that "curated iOS app store" working out? Oh right: http://www.osnews.com/comments/29863

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by fmaxwell on Wed 25th Oct 2017 19:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
fmaxwell Member since:
2005-11-13

You live in a bubble. Most of the Android world doesn't care about carrier restrictions because they own their phone outright, bought independently of a carrier (and are on prepaid)

No, I live in the real world where I bought my iPhone outright, from an Apple store, independent of any carrier. It wasn't financed or subsidized by any carrier.

Also, we have some pretty good estimates (from ifixit or the like) of the price of iPhone hardware, in light of them iPhones are definately overpriced...

You're conflating cost and price. Cost is what Apple pays and price is what the consumer pays. Apple does not sell hardware separately. When you buy an iPhone, you are paying for a bundle that includes all of the value-added services that I cited. So where did you get your numbers on what percentage of an iPhone's price is for hardware?

BTW, how's that "curated iOS app store" working out? Oh right: http://www.osnews.com/comments/29863


One of the comments under that article was very telling:

As much as a like Android, Google really need to get the Play Store under control. It's just an endless shitshow of terrible apps and i'm not talking about the quality of the apps (although that is often also terrible). I'm talking about the many, many apps that are exist only to send your private data to advertisers or is an endless display of ads and nothing else.
And lets not even get into the insane number of obviously fake reviews.

Take a look at this and you can see how well Apple's curated app store works:

https://www.networkworld.com/article/3185766/security/malware-infect...

From that article:

In the second half of last year, of all the infections in mobile networks, 85% were against smartphones, which is an increase of 83% from the first half. Among these smartphones, Android devices are most often the target (81% of the time). iPhones fall victim less than 4% of the time.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra
by zima on Thu 26th Oct 2017 16:15 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Sony Xperia XA1 Ultra"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

And yet you focused on carrier updates, as if you didn't know it's irrelevant for most phone users... So, was that trolling or what?

It's quite easy, for ~insiders, to estimate the price of hardware ...just by looking at what's included (and they're probably a bit cautious / conservative, Apple is quite possibly getting better prices...) The sheer profits tell us enough if they're overpriced.

Cute how you put blanks on the main issue in that article I linked, of succesfull / top earning malware (lets call it what it is) happily existing in "curated" Apple store... wonder if such are even counted in infection rates / update situation is completelly irrelevant to this vector.

Reply Score: 3

Another correction
by avgalen on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 12:55 UTC
avgalen
Member since:
2010-09-23

Samsung/HTC/LG phones don't get updates - or only six months after the fact - but carry the same flagship price

No, Samsung/HTC/LG phones don't carry the same flagship price. A Galaxy S8 costs under 600 Euro (64 GB version) while you cannot even buy an iPhone X yet but it is priced at 1150 Euro (basically double). iPhone 8 would be about 800 Euro, 35% extra, and doesn't seem like a comparable phone to me (5.8" amoled screen with 4 times the pixels of the ancient 4.7" screen with 720p resolution)
Other flagship phones like Huawei or OnePlus are even cheaper

Reply Score: 5

RE: Another correction
by fedyac on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 14:20 UTC in reply to "Another correction"
fedyac Member since:
2017-03-27

Galaxy S8 is fairly "old" at that point so why comparing it with the iPhone X ? Compare it with the Galaxy Note 8 if you want to make an accurate comparison and Samsung sells it for 1000€ in my country. And the Galaxy S8 is 800€, if you use official Apple prices you should use official Samsung prices too.

Edited 2017-10-23 14:21 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Another correction
by avgalen on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 20:02 UTC in reply to "RE: Another correction"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

I am comparing the S8 with the 8 (not a fair comparison) and with the X (fair comparison) because those are the ones that should be compared featurewise and sizewise. I am not comparing to the S8+ or Note 8 because those are much larger screens or have features that the iPhone X simply doesn't have so they shouldn't be compared.

And the S8 being "old" is not something that should be taken into account. It is on the market longer than the 8 and X but is simply comparable with the newest of them. I am also comparing the normal prices of them, not the official prices. We all know that Apple doesn't go down much in price during the year but the Galaxies do.

Reply Score: 4

v RE[3]: Another correction
by fedyac on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 21:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Another correction"
RE[4]: Another correction
by winter skies on Tue 24th Oct 2017 08:31 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Another correction"
winter skies Member since:
2009-08-21

Galaxy S8 is not Samsung flagship anymore, Note 8 is their flagship and it cost more than 1000€. iPhone X is Apple’s flagship and if we use retail prices for both phones they’re not that far off

You are so full of it.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Another correction
by avgalen on Tue 24th Oct 2017 09:13 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Another correction"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

Well you’re comparing whatever you want, I’m just pointing out that it doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. You can’t just base your assertion on screen size/screen resolution or else you can even bring a more absurd comparison why not use a Galaxy S7 while you’re at it.

I am obviously not only comparing based on screen size and resolution. The S8 has directly competed with the iPhone 7, is now competing with the iPhone 8 and will soon compete with the iPhone X and it can hold its own against all of them for a much lower price. Just look at how many comparisons there are between them online and how they stack up. The iPhone X is mostly the same as the iPhone 8+ except for the screen (that results in no-fingerprint reader but FaceID) and the screen of the S8 is still better than that of the iPhone X. So what exactly makes you think the iPhone 8 should be compared with the S8 and the iPhone X should be compared with the Note 8? Only the price?
(BTW, the S7 only had a 5.1" screen, the S8 has a 5.8" screen so your absurd comparison based only on screen size is the thing that doesn't make any sense whatsoever)

Galaxy S8 is not Samsung flagship anymore, Note 8 is their flagship and it cost more than 1000€.

You are wrong on both:
Since the introduction of the Samsung Galaxy Note smartphone in 2011, the Galaxy S line has co-existed with the Galaxy Note line as being Samsung's flagship smartphones.
(Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_S_series)
Note 8 costs 950 Euro (Source: https://tweakers.net/product/614589/samsung-galaxy-note-8-dual-sim/)
iPhone X costs 1150 Euro (Source: https://tweakers.net/product/684965/apple-iphone-x/)
These are not "heavily discounted prices only for Samsung's offering from the grey market, they are simply the prices you would pay for them right now.


iPhone X is Apple’s flagship and if we use retail prices for both phones they’re not that far off : that was Thom’s point.

No, Thom's initial point was about the Pixel 2 XL which is indeed ridiculously overpriced being 1050 € (source https://tweakers.net/product/651499/google-pixel-2-xl/). I didn't disagree with that phone being ridiculously overpriced. (same for Note8, also overpriced compared to S8 or S8+)
I did correct Thom about the other flagship phones that are not close to the iPhone X or even the iPhone 8 (HTC U11 being 650) in price while offering significantly more modern phones (meaning Oleds with more screen/less bezel like S8 and iPhoneX)

And your argument of features not supported by the iphone is dubious : iPhone X also has features that Samsung phones doesn’t have
Yes, there is no direct comparison but the reason to compare the Note8 with the iPhone X instead of the S8 would be the pencil and Apple has nothing like that. So for this Note8 is in a league of its own. Note8 also has the bigger screen, similar to the S8+ that iPhone X doesn't have, so iPhoneX should be compared to the S8 not S8+ or Note8

Reply Score: 4

v RE[5]: Another correction
by fedyac on Tue 24th Oct 2017 10:27 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Another correction"
RE[6]: Another correction
by jnemesh on Tue 24th Oct 2017 12:46 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Another correction"
jnemesh Member since:
2008-04-08

Mainly because CPU performance is, and has been a complete non issue for a while now. Is it fast enough to run Skype? Can it play angry birds? Is it fast enough to open my email? Is it fast enough to run the UI without lag? That's all anyone needs. Anything else is just bragging about artificial benchmarks and only serves to inflate egos like yours rather than serve any kind of useful purpose. Enjoy your benchmarks, fanboi.

Reply Score: 3

v RE[7]: Another correction
by fedyac on Tue 24th Oct 2017 13:50 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Another correction"
RE[6]: Another correction
by avgalen on Tue 24th Oct 2017 13:19 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Another correction"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

Once again for you more modern seems to be only related to the screen but this is not the case, if I want to troll I will just say this : why not use CPU performance instead?

Because the iPhone 8 and iPhone X both have the same CPU and Apple made a big point during their presentation that iPhone X is their modern phone (because of the screen) and iPhone 8 isn't. You also agree with that because "iPhone X is the flagship, but iPhone 8 isn't even though they have the same CPU.
People are also looking at the screen all of the time and immediately see the difference between an iPhone 8 (old) and iPhone X or Samsung S8 (modern) while only people that run benchmarks think that there is an important speed difference between any flagship phone. We all knew the iPhone 7 was fast and that the iPhone 8 would be faster but we just aren't exited by that because we hardly ever do anything on the phone that needs that speed.

Apple is far ahead of Android flagships on this point

True
because they have to rely on Qualcomm to deliver their CPU

Untrue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exynos

both phones have their strong point.

I completely agree. There is no denying that iPhones are some of the best phones. My disagreement is about the statement that all flagship phones have the same flagship price.

The difference in price between Galaxy S and iPhone is just because their launch are not aligned, the S8 was released just between the iPhone 7 and the iPhone 8. When it was released it was priced the same than the iPhone 7. Now, the iPhone 8 is more expensive but the iPhone 7 is less expensive.

No, an iPhone 7 32 GB, 4.7" is still more expensive than an S8 64 GB, 5.8"! Apples prices drop 100 Euro per year while Samsungs drop much more after just a few months.
iPhone 7 32 GB is 600 Euro (https://tweakers.net/product/539421/apple-iphone-7/)
iPhone 7 Plus 32 GB is 650 Euro (https://tweakers.net/product/539423/apple-iphone-7-plus/) or significantly more with all but 1 seller
Samsung S8 64 GB is 575 Euro. (https://tweakers.net/product/556603/samsung-galaxy-s8/)

You're pointing that Samsung prices fall through the year unlike Apple but you also have to take into account that thanks to that, iPhone have better resale values when you want to switch to a new phone.

That seems true but would be very difficult to measure. However it surely isn't so that this compensates for the price differences that I am pointing out.

And how can you compare the S8 screen to the iPhone X while it is not available ! You're just doing a spec sheet comparison, wait for a serious review like one from displaymate and we'll see which phone have the best screen.

Quite a few reviews have been out already and the general idea is that both are great although the Samsung screen gets brighter. I have no doubt that the iPhone X will have closed the screen-gap with the Samsung S8 and that they are now in the same ballpark with only reviewers/comparisons showing any difference but normal people will just be happy with either screen.
Again, the problem is that the iPhone X will be twice the price of the S8, not that the iPhone X or S8 is better than the other.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Another correction
by supergear on Sat 28th Oct 2017 06:10 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Another correction"
supergear Member since:
2007-07-06

S8/8+ and Note 8 are their flagships for the year 2017

Reply Score: 1

Comment by _txf_
by _txf_ on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 12:55 UTC
_txf_
Member since:
2008-03-17

and on top of that, its flagship model has a display worse than my Palm T|X.


Holy hyperbole.

Reply Score: 9

codifies
Member since:
2014-02-14

...doesn't mean its right for everyone else...

personally I find a phone thats 5 generations out of date wipe the OS and replace it without bothering with various vendor apps (which makes the phone faster and battery life much better)

this approach is best for me - but not for the rest of the world, one size fits all is a terrible solution...

Reply Score: 4

There are a few...
by mattias1 on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 13:16 UTC
mattias1
Member since:
2014-12-15

...Android devices with proper updates (at least security updates) like Moto G and Moto X (Play), but many vendors just do not care. Personally I care more about LineageOS support than vendors upgrading.

On the other hand the Android market is so fragmented that very few security bugs can be exploited on many phones in exact the same way.

Reply Score: 4

RE: There are a few...
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 15:39 UTC in reply to "There are a few..."
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Motorola is terrible. They really only support devices that sell well. So, basically as a consumer, you should wait until its apparent that a phone is selling well before buying it. And even then, their promises aren't worth the electrons used to display them. See the Moto X pure.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: There are a few...
by jal_ on Tue 24th Oct 2017 09:22 UTC in reply to "RE: There are a few..."
jal_ Member since:
2006-11-02

Motorola is terrible.

It depends on what you call "terrible". Their devices are fine, my whole family is using Moto E/Gs, without complaints.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: There are a few...
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Tue 24th Oct 2017 14:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: There are a few..."
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Yeah, because those sold. Those are actually really good value phones.

The Moto x pure edition, which was advertised as being a thin skin over android, very infrequently received security updates, with the last one being in May... It was supposed to also get an upgrade to Android 7.

Like I said, only buy the popular motos.

Reply Score: 3

Disconnected from reality
by Ford Prefect on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 13:21 UTC
Ford Prefect
Member since:
2006-01-16

This whole rant doesn't make any sense if you get to the gust of it. It is all about flagship phones, but the market share described as "most, normal people" or "non-nerdy, regular people" is simply not the flagship market. Quite to the contrary.

The question which platform has a better security record is more complicated than by just looking at update numbers. See e.g. https://www.computerworld.com/article/3213388/mobile-wireless/androi... for a more thorough discussion of this topic.

Sure in general I agree that the Android platform currently looks worse in this regard. That said, there was a time, roughly 1995 to 2005, where you could have written "Suggesting non-nerdy, regular people get a Windows PC at this point in time is simply irresponsible." Did you do it?

The thing is, not everybody can afford an iPhone, or wants to pay the Apple premium, or wants to take part in the Apple vendor lock-in. Me, personally, I would not churn out €350+ for an outdated (hardware-wise) phone that dictates me which applications I am allowed to install, and I would certainly not advise my non-nerdy, regular friends to do so when all they need is a €200 device.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Disconnected from reality
by x86_x64 on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 13:33 UTC in reply to "Disconnected from reality"
x86_x64 Member since:
2017-10-11

The question which platform has a better security record is more complicated than by just looking at update numbers. See e.g. https://www.computerworld.com/article/3213388/mobile-wireless/androi... for a more thorough discussion of this topic.

It's simply "Linux is more secure than Windows" all over again. Only this time in smartphone world.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Disconnected from reality
by Ford Prefect on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 13:36 UTC in reply to "RE: Disconnected from reality"
Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

Or, as some people had put it already some years ago, "Android is the Windows of smartphones".

Reply Score: 3

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Basically its windows before windows update and patch tuesday.

Reply Score: 5

Comment by x86_x64
by x86_x64 on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 13:31 UTC
x86_x64
Member since:
2017-10-11

At the moment I am using BlackBerry Bold 9900 as my main (and only) phone. Got it in perfect condition for 50€, battery lasts 4 days.
For those rare cases when I need to use GPS, maps or Uber-like services, I have powered off Nomu S10 Android smartphone deep in my backpack. It's rugged, waterproof, has 5000mAh battery.
Now, from my perspective, your contemplation about iPhone and Android issues seem hilariously cliched "firs world problems".

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by x86_x64
by joekiser on Tue 24th Oct 2017 02:33 UTC in reply to "Comment by x86_x64"
joekiser Member since:
2005-06-30

At the moment I am using BlackBerry Bold 9900 as my main (and only) phone. Got it in perfect condition for 50€, battery lasts 4 days.
For those rare cases when I need to use GPS, maps or Uber-like services, I have powered off Nomu S10 Android smartphone deep in my backpack. It's rugged, waterproof, has 5000mAh battery.
Now, from my perspective, your contemplation about iPhone and Android issues seem hilariously cliched "firs world problems".


I’m surprised that BlackBerry services are still working for your 9900. I physically had one in my hands last week and was reminded of the great build quality of the RIM BlackBerry devices.

I would like to see a final BB10 update where they remove the antiquated Android runtime and give us an updated browser engine. That would still be useful on the Classic and Passport for many years to come.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by x86_x64
by x86_x64 on Tue 24th Oct 2017 09:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by x86_x64"
x86_x64 Member since:
2017-10-11

I’m surprised that BlackBerry services are still working for your 9900. I physically had one in my hands last week and was reminded of the great build quality of the RIM BlackBerry devices.

Why would I need BlackBerry services? I don't use e-mail on my phone, I don't use Internet on it. But yes, it's absolutely flawless build quality, much better than any current 1000$ phone.

I would like to see a final BB10 update where they remove the antiquated Android runtime and give us an updated browser engine. That would still be useful on the Classic and Passport for many years to come.

Well, I also have a BlackBerry Q10 that is running the latest BB10, and it does have an updated browser with proper HTML5 support. Had no problems browsing on it. Android runtime is still there, but you don't have to use it. Also, BB10 no longer requires BlackBerry Services at all, so you can use e-mail, browser, messengers and all other services just over regular cellular data (or WiFi).

And yet, I still like my Bold 9900 better than my Q10.

Reply Score: 1

Simply irresponsible
by phoudoin on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 14:02 UTC
phoudoin
Member since:
2006-06-09

> Suggesting non-nerdy, regular people get an Android
> phone at this point in time is simply irresponsible.

And yet a huge part of smartphones owners does it, and so far without much bad consequence to Android marketshare.

Maybe it's time to see that non-nerdy, regular people don't buy flagship smartphones, simply. Not because they're non-nerdy or "regular", but because they find good enough models for their needs for a far better matching price.

Plus, the main issue at point here is hardware quality.
I fail to see how it can paint the whole Android plateform at once. It's not like the iPhone or iOS plateform have not it's own software and/or hardware issues too, even with higher prices.

What matter is quality price ratio. Pixel 2 XL seems bad, true. Doesn't mean that's the same for every smartphone running under Android.

Reply Score: 7

Come on
by Ikshaar on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 15:05 UTC
Ikshaar
Member since:
2005-07-14

"Suggesting non-nerdy, regular people get an Android phone at this point in time is simply irresponsible."

I assume this was for inflammatory purpose only. There is billions of Android users that are doing just fine with an Android phone. Because regular people don't buy the latest Pixel or whatever we (nerds) talk about. I have no problem recommending an Android phone, I just don't tell them buy $1000 phone.

PS:My phone is a $400 Honor 8 and I love it.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Come on
by Soulbender on Tue 24th Oct 2017 02:48 UTC in reply to "Come on"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I'd mod you up but since this is still not a forum for adults, and I already posted, I'm not allowed to.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Come on
by JLF65 on Tue 24th Oct 2017 17:45 UTC in reply to "RE: Come on"
JLF65 Member since:
2005-07-06

I'd mod you up but since this is still not a forum for adults, and I already posted, I'm not allowed to.


Yeah, there's two REALLY STUPID restrictions on voting here that chap my hide: you can't vote after posting; you can only vote on a user's posts twice within several days. I can understand limiting the total number of votes - that's fine. But the two I mention are asinine. Suppose someone makes a really great post - I'm sorry, you can't upvote him because you already upvoted him elsewhere a few days back. X( Half the time, I don't even remember who, what, where, or when I voted someone that the site tells me I can't vote on because I already voted them.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Come on
by zima on Wed 25th Oct 2017 11:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Come on"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

No, you can vote on someone's posts more than twice after 4 additional votes on other people.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Come on
by zima on Wed 25th Oct 2017 11:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Come on"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

First read & vote, then post. ;)

Reply Score: 3

Comment by smashIt
by smashIt on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 15:07 UTC
smashIt
Member since:
2005-07-06

With my Nokia 6021 I can only laugh at such problems.

But this reminds me that I need a new battery for it.
The current one is now down to 1 week between charges.
Unacceptable!

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by smashIt
by x86_x64 on Tue 24th Oct 2017 10:02 UTC in reply to "Comment by smashIt"
x86_x64 Member since:
2017-10-11

Another wise person who understands what it's all about. No phone should cost more than 100€. Unless it also makes you coffee, does your laundry and washes the floor.
Unfortunately, current "phones" crossed over to "fashion item" and "Facebook machine" area long ago. And it's not insane to pay ridiculous prices for a fashion item, apparently.

Reply Score: 2

T|X
by korpenkraxar on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 15:37 UTC
korpenkraxar
Member since:
2005-09-10

Leave the great Palm T|X alone! That device was pretty great :-D

Reply Score: 3

RE: T|X
by judgen on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 15:58 UTC in reply to "T|X"
judgen Member since:
2006-07-12

I still use my lifedrive on a daily basis. (The lifedrive is basicly a faster cpu and ram, more rugged aluminium version of the TX with larger storage and upgradeable to 64gb microdrive+128gb SD card.)

I just love GarnetOS.

Reply Score: 3

RE: T|X
by cstjean on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 20:57 UTC in reply to "T|X"
cstjean Member since:
2017-10-23

I power up my T|X every now and then to continue a game of Bejeweled that has been ongoing for the last 10 years. Loved the keyboard that I got for it back then, folded up very nicely.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by judgen
by judgen on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 15:53 UTC
judgen
Member since:
2006-07-12

And over here ground beef has become more expensive than entrecote due to the law of supply and demand.

Reply Score: 3

Sadly True.
by Carrot007 on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 18:00 UTC
Carrot007
Member since:
2008-02-04

For your average person ther iphone is rpobably the best choice. Even older ones are somewhat supported for people on a budget (they can put up with the slowing of the updates bring!).

Not for me though. I was happiest win WM5/6, truly open and finally I did not have to carry around a PDA as well (which obviously ran WM/PPC 3-6 whatever you wanna call it varient of the OS, sorry palm needed a filing system for my needs, I went WM after a couple of palms, one palm then a clie which was nice, but it was time for a real OS)

Then we got iOS. Sorry a step back in my opinion. Walled garden and hidden filing system. Not for me.

So I sold my soul to google as there was no other credible alternative. I am now in too deep to switch. At least I have a file system and can load my own things.

Smashed my 6P in spain, though it was coming to the end of it's life anyway, but I did not know what I wanted. Samsung sucks big time. No I don't want another assistant and apps forced on me. I want the google ones.

Went for the Wileyfox Swift 2 X. Could not be happier! Yes the cpu is not flagship quality. But then again it does not get uncomfortably hot and I can last 2/3 days on a charge easily. It is also fast enough for everything I do. Do miss android 8, for the week I had to play with it on the 6P! But it's not a deal breaker, and they have promised it's coming. That's Android 6/7/8 that they will have provided on the phone then. Better than most offering.

In fact am so happy with it I got the OH one too! And given the price, I can now go to a sim only contract and just get a new device when I need one. I hope they continue making such devices. Yes there are many equal sort of devices from china at even chepaer but. There is no quality control and no os updates (don't care about more spying, everyone does it!), I got the OH a better specced cheaper china device where the reviews said the screen was great. It was not, but I suspect it was just that device. I convinced her the drop the 5.2 inches from 5.5 was worth it for the better phone.

What do I envy from iOS? Quality apps. Things like iRig/Amplitube would be great. However upon reading the android app is a poor cousin to the iOS one and as I suspected they have gone to a charge for any decent fx as an add on method, I know packs are available, but if the app sucks that broke the deal. So back to real Boss MultiFX for me (used to use amplitube around version 2/3 on a pc/mac before the pay for each fx model!).

What keeps me away from iOS? iTunes. Lack of a file system. The over curated garden store.

Reply Score: 4

Are you insane?
by arkeo on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 18:24 UTC
arkeo
Member since:
2008-04-21

"Suggesting non-nerdy, regular people get an Android phone at this point in time is simply irresponsible."

Are you insane?

Edited 2017-10-23 18:28 UTC

Reply Score: 9

Really, Thom?
by birdie on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 19:41 UTC
birdie
Member since:
2014-07-15

I've always loved what you write Thom, but this is just unacceptable:

> Anybody who doesn't care about software and hardware the way most of us do is, years and years in, still best served by an iPhone. Depending on budget, get an iPhone 6S, 7, or 8 (forget the ridiculously overpriced iPhone X); the Android world simply doesn't have a phone that can compete with any of those three - and that's a sad state of affairs. Google has been wholly unable to address the biggest problems Android suffers from - most notably, updates - and we're way past the point where this can be excused without really scraping the bottom of the barrel of excuses.

> Suggesting non-nerdy, regular people get an Android phone at this point in time is simply irresponsible.

Firstly, Google Pixel 1, Pixel 1 XL and Pixel 2 don't suffer from display problems and they are excellent phones.

Secondly, there's Xiaomi Mi A1 (with pure Android) - an affordable phone with three years guaranteed updates.

Thirdly, I'm glad you enjoy your salary but there are many countries of the world where iPhone costs as much as your half a year income. My monthly salary is enough to buy only 1/3 of iPhone X. Yeah.

Fourthly, iOS totally sucks in comparison to Android. It simply sucks and there's no way around it.

Edited 2017-10-23 19:44 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: Really, Thom?
by birdie on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 19:42 UTC in reply to "Really, Thom?"
birdie Member since:
2014-07-15

While we're at it, commenting at OSNews under Firfox is broken: buttons (bold/italic/quote/preview) don't work, characters counter doesn't work.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Really, Thom?
by zima on Wed 25th Oct 2017 11:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Really, Thom?"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Works for me, something on your end must be broken...

Reply Score: 3

Never an iPhone for me...
by cmost on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 21:27 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

I don't care what kind of iPhone Apple puts out I won't ever buy one. They're way overpriced and I don't like how Apple acts like it owns your device and you merely use it at their discretion. I do agree, however; that the quality of Google's phones has gone way down. I had exclusively owned Google phones since the Nexus One debuted, upgrading to the latest every two years. My last phone which was a Nexus 6P had terrible battery life and refused to connect to the Bluetooth in my car among other problems. Not to mention these phablet sized phones are overrated and don't work well in a man's pockets! When an update to Android made the earpiece gltichy leaving a fifty-fifty chance whether or not I'd have to make or take calls on speakerphone I had enough. I currently use a Samsung Galaxy S8 and absolutely love it. It is literally the perfect phone for me. In my opinion, Samsung currently produces the best smart phones available.

Edited 2017-10-23 21:29 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by kurkosdr
by kurkosdr on Mon 23rd Oct 2017 23:39 UTC
kurkosdr
Member since:
2011-04-11

OLED screens are crap, there I said it.

They have weird colors, bad viewing angles, they burn-in, they flicker, they drain the battery.

The only thing they are good at is looking good when set to max brightness at the store, but you will probably turn the brightness down when you get them home, if not to protect yourself from eye strain, so that the battery can make the day.

LG's P-OLED just happens to be worse.

I will stick with LCDs exclusively, even if I have to buy only HTC and Sony devices from now on, thank you.

Edited 2017-10-23 23:41 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by kurkosdr
by x86_x64 on Tue 24th Oct 2017 10:09 UTC in reply to "Comment by kurkosdr"
x86_x64 Member since:
2017-10-11

OLED screens are crap, there I said it.

They have weird colors, bad viewing angles, they burn-in, they flicker, they drain the battery.

The only thing they are good at is looking good when set to max brightness at the store, but you will probably turn the brightness down when you get them home, if not to protect yourself from eye strain, so that the battery can make the day.

I don't know what kind od OLEDs you've been using, but my experience is completely opposite.

Reply Score: 1

v Let the dummies win
by dcdevito on Tue 24th Oct 2017 00:53 UTC
Budget phones
by mdsama on Tue 24th Oct 2017 00:56 UTC
mdsama
Member since:
2005-07-08

Others have mentioned it, but I think the major caveat is price: Many ~$100 Android phones are actually great.

And that's a pretty big price difference. (I'm amazed they can make these still-incredible pieces of technology several times cheaper than the expensive ones.)

To me, the hype over flagship phones seems a little silly, especially in phone reviews. It all looks like hot air to me.

(Granted, some cheap phones really are shit, and I guess that's a real advantage for iPhones, especially for an average consumer - you know they're going to be good.)

Reply Score: 4

Yes, updates and support
by Poseidon on Tue 24th Oct 2017 02:05 UTC
Poseidon
Member since:
2009-10-31

That's literally the only thing keeping me every year with an iPhone. I've gotten close to 4 years of software updates with my last two iPhones, and great physical and software security. If they can just keep that up I'm not switching anytime soon.

It's disturbing that Apple is the only company getting those right, while openness is sacrificed in the process because other companies can't get those right.

I get that people who care about those are a niche (a lot of people get new phones regularly), but I just like keeping a phone for as long as possible, it makes it a more sound investment.

Reply Score: 3

Not really
by Soulbender on Tue 24th Oct 2017 02:43 UTC
Soulbender
Member since:
2005-08-18

"Depending on budget" a cheap Android phone is what's "best" for most people, especially outside of Western Europe. Spending your entire monthly salary or more on a phone is not a financially healthy option.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Not really
by zima on Wed 25th Oct 2017 11:21 UTC in reply to "Not really"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Yeah, Thom seems to have a peculiar understanding of "normal, average people" - basically, in the top 5% of earners...

Reply Score: 5

Can't replicate here...
by nicholasj on Tue 24th Oct 2017 09:32 UTC
nicholasj
Member since:
2008-12-10

Received my new Pixel XL 2 (am posting from it now) about a week ago and I can't reproduce the problem after following the steps in the linked article...

In all other senses, this phone is pretty fantastic. The bezels aren't quite as tiny as the Samsung or the iPhone X, but it's extremely fast (including Google Assistant responses), great battery, etc.

The migration process was painless, setup was very smooth. I'm sorry for people outside the USA, but the combination of Project Fi's fixed cost roaming and this Pixel is perfect for my use. I had the previous Pixel and two Nexii before it - iPhones are nice, but the available cell services here are either horribly expensive (Verizon) or patchy.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Can't replicate here...
by zima on Wed 25th Oct 2017 11:37 UTC in reply to "Can't replicate here..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

"Nexii"? Nexuses!

Reply Score: 3

couldn't disagree more
by bjb1959 on Tue 24th Oct 2017 14:19 UTC
bjb1959
Member since:
2012-03-29

Beside the fact that Apple customer care absolutely sucks balls and I hate them with a passion. I couldn't disagree with you more about Android phones. Apple has it's fair share of hardware and software issues with each new phone and OS upgrade to iron out. The key is to wait a bit before buying a brand new phone to let them catch and fix the few bugs that may exist. I am laughing at you and shaking my head as I enjoy my Galaxy S8 comfortable in the knowledge that I will never have an apple product on me or in my house.

Reply Score: 5

All about choice
by pete284 on Tue 24th Oct 2017 14:41 UTC
pete284
Member since:
2017-10-24

I am an Android user and my wife is an iphone user. I prefer a world where both Android and Apple exist as it's all about choice. If one OS disappear then the other becomes a monopoly that is no good for everyone.

I don't want a phone that looks like everyone else's phone I want to customise it and use any headphone or lead on it so I use Android. My wife, on the other hand, wants a phone that works and couldn't care what it looks like so she uses an older iphone.

So I don't think the iPhone is the best choice for everyone but nor do I think everyone should use an Android phone. So in conclusion this is a flawed argument.

Reply Score: 2

Bring me a flip phone
by Milo_Hoffman on Tue 24th Oct 2017 15:36 UTC
Milo_Hoffman
Member since:
2005-07-06

More and more I think I would rather just have a FLIP PHONE.

One that is:

a) a flip phone, small, sturdy, rugged, and fits in a pocket
b) does not need a big add-on case to survive its first drop
c) Has a good keyboard like Blackberries had
d) has a screen just big enough to check email, send texts, and view a small map when needed, or quick webpage once in a while

I don't want to play games, I don't want to watch movies, and I don't want to snap-face-insta-tweet my selfies and what food I am eating.


Basically I just want a functional flip phone, that is about as capable as blackberry's were, and just takes advantage of today's faster CPU's and more memory.

Edited 2017-10-24 15:40 UTC

Reply Score: 3

oldies
by Kancept on Tue 24th Oct 2017 17:19 UTC
Kancept
Member since:
2006-01-09

i have an iPhone 5S and a Nexus 4. The iPhone 5S is still receiving updates form Apple. The Nexus 4 is not getting squat from Google. The only way I've been able to kee that Nexus 4 current is to use a 3rd party, Lineage to actually get my phone to the same level as support as my iPhone 5S. Sure, they are both old, but they ain't broke. Google needs to get this software line is check if it wants to keep playing.

I'm considering either an iPhone SE (or wait for SE2 1Q2018) or a Huawei 6X for my next phone. Both inexpensive, but those updates sure are nice from Apple.

Reply Score: 2

Medicrity is the thing
by missingxtension on Wed 25th Oct 2017 01:54 UTC
missingxtension
Member since:
2011-01-14

We have come to a point where phones need to be mediocre to win, welcome to the apple utopia!
.Apps and OS are mediocre rolling releases, nothing is set, nothing is finished, nothing is polished, nothing is final. Hardware is now the same thing now, iphone is just a rolling release, or you didnt understand that from the lack of 3g or mms in the beggining. Its the same case for all other phones, (lg) g, v, flex, (samsung) a, j, galaxy, note, (htc) U, (motorola) g, x, z, e, (google) nexus 1-6, pixel 1-2, (nokia) 3, 6, 8, blah, blah, bland!!! Whats even the point of finding problems in this years model. The new one is going to come next year, they are going to wait a year to fix it.
We are never going to get a truly innovative product like a a Priv again. Hardware keyboard, wireles charging, nfc, 18mp camera with good software, 5.43", curved, amoled, 1440p, (somewhat) flagship processor, 3gb ram!, 32gb storage, sd card slot, stock android, monthly security, big battery. Wait did I mention it ran adroid, ohh darn! it lags!! windows or ios would have been a better option.

Edited 2017-10-25 01:57 UTC

Reply Score: 2

No thanks
by Drunkula on Wed 25th Oct 2017 12:10 UTC
Drunkula
Member since:
2009-09-03

I'll stick with my Galaxy S8+ any day!

Reply Score: 2

Apple is DEAD
by crocodile on Wed 25th Oct 2017 19:30 UTC
crocodile
Member since:
2010-01-18

Apple is only the number 2 worlwide as market share with only 14%. Every year Apple's marketshare worlwide is shrinking. Next year Huawei will be number 2 and Apple will be number 3. iPhone is a luxurious product for a niche market. Google has won the war!
iOS has a good presence in rich countries, it has a perfectly viable size in many of them, but it is non-existent in India, Africa etc. Google's Android won this war. Always the small guy (that is Apple) dies when has such a small market share! The TRUTH is, that Apple can NEVER be a viable smartphone OS for a global reach. That is CERTAIN. They have LOST the platform war.
iOS is DESTINED to become a NICHE like Mac OS became. For niche audiences only. A very LARGE niche yes, if they have 10% of global handsets say year 2025 but still only a niche. Most developers can safely ignore iOS by then.
App developers will see the users and reach and money and follow it, and soon the moment comes, when app developers don't BOTHER TO RELEASE iPhone versions !!! This is INEVITABLE. 12% is FAR TOO SMALL to bother with your first edition games if the alternative is 88%. And no matter how much some apple fanatics will yell 'but our users are richer' the app developer says - I need USERS. I need REACH. I will go with Android. That is the NEXT STAGE that WILL INEVITABLY COME.

BTW Google is being smart about this. They KNOW they have won. They don't WANT Apple to go away into its corner and sulk. They WANT to pretend there is still a battle between these two, because Google know they have ALREADY WON the WAR. The longer Apple puts its efforts into marketing the rival app platform - the better it is for Google.
That does NOT mean that Apple dies. Apple will live on happily ever after but their iOS ecosystem will only serve the dwindling flock of iSheep who will continue to pay the iTax.
Apple will be a healthy company with fiercely loyal customers but it has zero chance of maintaining the current illusion of a global reach digital platform. As that image crumbles, part of Apple's glory, youth loyalty, and ability to turn obscene profits will disappear.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Apple is DEAD
by missingxtension on Thu 26th Oct 2017 01:53 UTC in reply to "Apple is DEAD"
missingxtension Member since:
2011-01-14

Apple is not dead, Apple is definitely the winner. Android had managed to hold on to the tail coats of apple. They are the result of Apple. While I don't believe Apple has ever improved any technology, they sure know how to market.
IOS is the clear winner here, Android is now a clone of iOS. IOS is a clone of Android, they have assimilated. We are the losers. Don't believe it? Every single thing Apple does, here comes Google. Everything Google does, here come Apple.

Reply Score: 0

Normal people...
by zzarko on Wed 25th Oct 2017 20:17 UTC
zzarko
Member since:
2011-01-09

"iPhone simply being the best all-round option for most, normal people"

WOW! I had to login just to comment on this... Thanks for putting a majority of people (who do not buy phones over 200-300e) into not-normal/crazy/whatever category, where they belong by simply not bying an iPhone. You should do commercials for them...

Reply Score: 4

iTax
by enx23 on Thu 26th Oct 2017 08:47 UTC
enx23
Member since:
2008-12-17

"iPhone simply being the best all-round option for most, normal people"

Thom, you are trolling right now! iPhone is a luxurious product for rich countries. iOs has a worldwide market of ~12% while Android has ~88%. iPhone is for rich people in rich countries and it is not for normal people from rich countries.

Also, iPhone does not have the best camera, iPhone does not have wireless charging, iPhone does not have standard charging port, iPhone battery's sucks.

this is what the sentence should be: "iPhone simply being NOT the best all-round option for most, normal people".

Reply Score: 3

iPhones are overpriced...
by rklrkl on Fri 27th Oct 2017 13:45 UTC
rklrkl
Member since:
2005-07-06

You could just about justify the cost of the iPhone SE (I'm actually surprised Apple have kept this alive for so long, because I suspect it's got the lowest markup of any of the phones they sell), but anything above that is frankly massively overpriced.

Where Android scores heavily over the iPhone is the vast choice of price and hardware specs (along with almost always better value for money). The reason Android dominates is that Apple have never had a budget (sub-$300) phone and, like it or not, that's about the price limit for most people, especially those in developing countries.

As time has worn on, we're now seeing some decently spec'ed phones at around the $200 price point (almost always made in China and then sold in the West - Blu have done a reasonable job of this for example). Yes, you won't get Android updated as often as iOS, but there's often custom ROMs available if you're looking for monthly (or sometimes better!) updates.

We've got a Galaxy S4 at work that really needs to be binned if we kept its ageing Android 5.0.1 stock ROM on it. Having LineageOS 14.1 (Android 7.1.2) available for a 4.5 year old phone probably even exceeds Apple's iOS support lifetime and will probably get more updates than iOS too. There's even a chance LineageOS 15 might come out for it before its 5th birthday.

Android is great simply because of choice and bang for buck and I think it's been a better mobile OS than iOS since around KitKat or so - Apple has been desperately adding Android features ever since then. So, sorry Thom, I really disagree with you on this one!

Reply Score: 2

Pixel 2 XL isn't for non-nerds
by supergear on Sat 28th Oct 2017 06:19 UTC
supergear
Member since:
2007-07-06

Suggesting non-nerdy, regular people get an Android phone at this point in time is simply irresponsible.

So Thom thinks everybody should be using an iPhone and a macbook

Reply Score: 1