Linked by Eugenia Loli on Sun 24th Feb 2002 09:05 UTC
OpenStep, GNUstep When NeXT, Inc. sold its business to Apple, the NeXT/OpenSTEP operating systems went unsupported. New hardware emerged in the x86 market, and NeXT was not able to boot successfully anymore (among others, problems with the CD-rom drivers, while the last CPU it supported was the Pentium Pro). However, a few NeXT "die hards" have managed to boot OpenSTEP under VMWare, the x86 runtime application. You can find instructions here and here on how to run OpenSTEP under Linux and Windows' VMWare respectively (screenshots included). Moreover, Atomic Object, Inc. released a SVGA OpenSTEP display driver for VMWare (although the graphics VMWare specs are not publicly available), so now the OS is almost fully supported by VMWare, even so unofficially. On a related note, the GnuSTEP project moves in a faster pace lately, trying to implement the OpenSTEP and MacOSX's Cocoa APIs.
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NextStep then also?
by MarcoF on Sun 24th Feb 2002 09:17 UTC

NextSTEP and OpenSTEP are quite similar.
I have a version of NextSTEP lying on the shelf, would it be possible to get that one running as well? (NextStep 3.2)

Re: NextStep then also?
by Eugenia on Sun 24th Feb 2002 09:21 UTC

It may run, try it, but is it the x86 version of NeXT? You see, VMWare only runs x86-based OSes (VMWare is not an emulator exactly, but an x86 runtime engine - hence the better speed when compared to something that is 100% an emulator, e.g. Bochs).

Asleep.
by Anonymous on Sun 24th Feb 2002 10:26 UTC

When NeXT, Inc. sold its business to Apple,
the NeXT/OpenSTEP operating systems went unsupported.
-------------------------------------------------------------
HP did the same with Appolo.
Purchase a better OS and put it asleep and make money
with your own "crappy" stuff. That how it works.

Re: Asleep.
by Lala on Sun 24th Feb 2002 11:58 UTC

Purchase a better OS and put it asleep and make money
with your own "crappy" stuff. That how it works.
----------------------------

Except Apple used the better OS to enhance their "crappy" stuff.

...
by Anonymous on Sun 24th Feb 2002 15:07 UTC

NeXTStep was the only good unix and they killed it! Bastards!

NeXTStep killed??
by Mark T. on Sun 24th Feb 2002 15:26 UTC

"NeXTStep was the only good unix and they killed it! Bastards!"

I believe NeXTStep is now called OS X 10.1.3.

source code
by Eugenia on Sun 24th Feb 2002 17:18 UTC

BTW, if I am not mistaken, this driver comes with full source code. The thing is that the specs for VMWare's graphics unit are not available, so having this source code would help people creating a new driver for BeOS or something. While BeOS has more problems under VMWare (timing problems mostly), having a 2D driver would be a first good step for better support.

Re: NextStep
by Eo on Sun 24th Feb 2002 18:34 UTC

Mark T.
OsX has nothing to do with NeXTStep. Sure, Apple used a few techs from it but they also added tons of bloat and apple crap to it..
NeXTStep was great, clearly designed, and fast.

Re: NextStep
by Tom on Sun 24th Feb 2002 22:41 UTC

Eo wrote:

> NeXTStep was great, clearly designed, and fast.

NeXTstep *is* great, clearly designed and fast ;)

Anyway: this is the true difference between NeXT-/Openstep and OS X. OS X is IMHO eyecandy, but still not useable.

uh...
by RevAaron on Mon 25th Feb 2002 02:19 UTC

> NextSTEP and OpenSTEP are quite similar.
> I have a version of NextSTEP lying on the shelf, would it
> be possible to get that one running as well? (NextStep
> 3.2)

It would require porting the driver. NeXTSTEP and OpenStep are somewhat different beasts, new API being one of the chief differences. One would have to back port the driver to NeXTSTEP. Also, like Eugenia said, you'd have to have the x86 version of NS. If it's below NS 3.1, it's definitely not x86. I do remember that there were seperate version of NS and OS drivers.

> OsX has nothing to do with NeXTStep.

Wrong. OS X was derived, not directly, from NeXTSTEP. NeXTSTEP turned into OpenStep, and OpenStep turned into Mac OS X. OpenStep and Mac OS X have quite a bit more in common than do OpenStep and NeXTSTEP though, as far as API in especial.

Ummm... I guess I must be running some OTHER OS called OpenStep v4.2 as my primary OS on my Pentium II 350...

I also would never complain about CD-ROM driver problems. It is far from up-to-date, but what could we expect from something abandoned in the mid-90s? The biggest trick is getting a decent video card that will work with it - I hunted down a Matrox Millenium II (which took a while)... but OpenStep at 1600x1200 on my PII is fast, stable, and visually beautiful.

I admit that running it under Vmware *could* be useful in specific situations, but anyone that spends time working with OpenStep knows that it runs fine on a PII... and obviously much faster than it would run under vmware. I believe that www.blackholeinc.com is selling some PIIIs with it pre-installed as well.

Better check your sources 'gain. Still, thanks for letting everyone know about the oppurtunity.

NextStEP: yes, it's x86
by MarcoF on Mon 25th Feb 2002 09:11 UTC

Eugenia, Rev:
Yeah, I forgot to mention: I have NS 3.2 x86(and lots of patches for it also).
Well, I guess I'll just have to give it a try.
Hmm, I wonder.. running w2k, QNX RTP, NS 3.2, Dano on one machine? ;)

NextStep 3.3 worked for me on Virtual PC
by Aapje on Mon 25th Feb 2002 14:25 UTC

No networking, sound or color though. Still pretty nice to run x86 NextStep on a PowerMac G3. I can now proudly state that I used the platform that was the first to have a browser.

Don't do this
by Trausti on Mon 25th Feb 2002 15:25 UTC

I have a NeXT Turbostation with 98MB ram, 4 GB harddisk and it runs amazingly well, I will admit that some programs like Omniweb take some time to start, but COMMAND-H hides it and puts it in the background and I loose no speed in the meantime to run other programs. The multitasking is awesome, the sound is still the best I have heard, unfortunatly DOOM runs quite slowly ;) But this machine is actually still very usable, framemaker, writenow and more applications are better than you might find on Winblows. The fonts are amazing, and the on-screen speed is probably faster than my PIII 900 MHz, 256 MB IBM computer.

Just go to blackhole or ebay and buy your self a machine which was made in 1991-1992 and it still beats new computers running faster, remember the Turbostation runs at 33 MHz ;)

Trausti

amen
by RevAaron on Mon 25th Feb 2002 16:05 UTC

I've had a similar experience with a cube I picked up a few years back. Awesome machine- wish I would've opted for the turbo colorstation, I think I'd be using it more now a days. (the cube is *damn* loud, and is only B&W) Wish Apple made an alternative version of OS X that retained all of the original NeXT apps rather than their awkward rewrites.

As far as OS 4.2 only running up to a Pentium Pro, I think they mean supported in a says-so-in-the-docs sense. I've run NS 3.3, OS 4.2, and Rhapsody DR2/x86 on a K62-350 with no problems.

Reply to Eo
by Aapje on Mon 25th Feb 2002 16:42 UTC

OS X has nothing to do with NeXTStep. Sure, Apple used a few techs from it but they also added tons of bloat and apple crap to it..
NeXTStep was great, clearly designed, and fast.


How can you say that when the VP of software is Avi Tevanian, a NeXT-guy? He is responsible for what OS X is today. Unfortunately he has a serious case of the Not-Invented-Here syndrome. He decided that all apps needed to be rewritten in Cocoa, until Adobe made it clear that that would mean they would abandon the OS. Enter Carbon. He decided to replace AppleScript with a new scripting system for no good reason at all, until many customers told Apple about the investments they had made in AppleScript. He wants to use the NeXT-way of dealing with files, even though many/most Mac-users dislike this (why not make it an option?). Instead of the PEF format for executables, he chose the Mach-O format that was developed at NeXT. The result is slowly loading applications and lenghty prebindings. Ever notice that many Carbon-apps (the ones that use PEF) load much faster than Cocoa-apps? He ditched many useful interface widgets and stuffed everything in the dock somehow. The interface is bloated and is certainly not in the spirit of the old MacOS.

The old MacOS was 'great, clearly designed, and fast' and NeXT-guys fucked it up. Read my lips: NextStep failed, MacOS succeeded. Count the total number of copies that NextStep sold, it's pathetic. The guys from NeXT should not force us to use their technology unless it is truly superior to MacOS stuff. MacOS X should not be a way for them to prove the world that they were right all along. I want an OS that is perfect for Mac-users and preferably also to NeXT-users, not an OS that always contains NeXT-technology, even when the MacOS stuff is better.

Hello. I was kinda wondering how to find this software, and someone above mentioned eBay to find hardware. I thought finding the software would be helpful since that is what i was looking for...

Searching for NS 3.3, what seems to be the latest version:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&...

Searching for OS 4.2, what also seems to be the latest version:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&...

I hope this helps others find and use what clearly others are saying is a great OS set. From what I have usurped from the Net, indeed these operating systems are truly amazing, fast and fairly lightweight compared to OSX 10.1.x

Happy Holidays.

NextStep is the best OS I have ever used!
by Mario on Mon 25th Feb 2002 23:36 UTC

And I have tried a lot of oses....

Unfortunately taking 50% NextStep and 50% MacOs and shaking does not produce good results!

Please note that NextStep filemanager and dock are a lot better than macosx ones!

OS X is not OPENSTEP
by strobe on Mon 25th Feb 2002 23:46 UTC

OPENSTEP didn't turn into OS X. They don't have much in common.

OPENSTEP has a different display server, kernel, driver architecture, etc. The only thing in common is the OpenStep API (and don't make me explain the difference between OPENSTEP and OpenStep) which was renamed Cocoa.

If that's all it takes for OS X to be OPENSTEP then OS X is also MacOS.

NeXT people, hush

Re: amen
by Tom on Tue 26th Feb 2002 07:43 UTC

RevAaron wrote:

> (the cube is *damn* loud, and is only B&W)

Ohhhh yes.... *g*

In the most cases the noise comes from the old harddrive. Try to get an used SCSI-II Harddrive (2 GB are really much space for NeXTstep and Applications and they're cheap), install it and enjoy the silence.

Re: OS X is not OPENSTEP
by Aapje on Tue 26th Feb 2002 09:17 UTC

OPENSTEP didn't turn into OS X. They don't have much in common.

OPENSTEP has a different display server, kernel, driver architecture, etc. The only thing in common is the OpenStep API (and don't make me explain the difference between OPENSTEP and OpenStep) which was renamed Cocoa.

If that's all it takes for OS X to be OPENSTEP then OS X is also MacOS.


What a total nonsense, OS X is a direct successor to OpenStep. OpenStep uses a Mach kernel (the name changed from NextStep when the kernel was changed), the current kernel is based on that one. The BSD-layer on top of it certainly does not come from the MacOS. OS X uses NetInfo to store configuration info, guess what OS that comes from? The display server just uses PDF instead of Display Postscript and different widgets, the basic architecture is the same. The driver code has changed, but that is not unheard of when a OS is ported to a new hardware platform. Both OS's use similar ways to 'package' files, I looked inside NextStep packages, they had the same basic structure as Cocoa apps. Interface Builder on OS X is just an updated version of the NextStep version, even the included chess application is the same (yes, I ran them on NextStep 3.3).

Do you really believe that Apple would copy the NeXT API's and throw away all the code that drives that API??? And do you really believe that the inclusion of technologies like Carbon and Aqua changes the fact that the base OS is based on OpenStep? If so, you probably also don't believe that WinXP is the successor to Win2000/NT as it has different widgets and contains a compatibility layer to run Win9x-applications.

Here you can read some more about the history of MacOS X (and Open-/NextStep): http://www.macosx.org/whatisit.html" http://www.macosx.org/whatis...

PS. There is no difference between OpenStep and OPENSTEP except for the caps. Of course, Unix people believe that caps make for a different thing/file ;)

available NeXt color turbosation
by STEVEN on Wed 27th Feb 2002 05:15 UTC

posted tjis on a dealmac forum thoughy it might be of use to someone here Machines at Goodwill NE 79 st 1/2 block west of byscayne blvd.

Was just in a thrift shop here in Miami Fl and observered a bunch of black baxes scattered in their electronics area . Turned out to be not one but two or almost two NeXT color turbostations. Some pieces seemed to be missing and I could find no softwear but there was enough to put one together, the keyboard connects throuh the modular pyramid shaped NeXT soundbox. Anyway when I booted it the beautiful black sony monitor displayed the NeXT icon and said system test failed. Thats as far as i got couldn't turn it off through the fancy keyboard. Left it on for some ubergeek.

These machines were 1992 models and the whole thing seemed too geeky for me but I thought some one on the list might be interested in these machines I have a slight interest in the moinitors a 17 inch black NeXT sony mega pixel and a 19 inch third party. All the parts were priced seprately but the total is about 60 bucks cpu keyboard mouse monitor soundbox external cd-rom.
can t imagine them going too quick