Linked by Eugenia Loli on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 19:56 UTC, submitted by oGALAXYo
Morphos According to MorphOS-News the Pegasos-II System starts shipping to the end users.
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RE: Pegasos II - System Starts Shipping
by Stefan Blixth on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 20:09 UTC

Great, have been waiting for this news for *ages* =)
Thanks for the great work Genesi, bPlan and the MorphOS-team!

Merry X-Mas to you all!


Kind regards
Stefan Blixth, OnyxSoft

Pegasos II-System Starts Shipping
by GregW on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 20:11 UTC

Hummm... All I get from the URL is:
"The eagle has landed"
Eagle for Christmas dinner perhaps?

RE: Pegasos II-System Starts Shipping
by Eugenia on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 20:13 UTC

>All I get from the URL is:

Have it occured to you that this image there might be a link?

Tadam!
by Emil 'opi' Oppeln Bronikowski on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 20:22 UTC

G4/1000 + MorphOS/Linux. Mrrrr. :-)

<gasp> Pricing is <ack> VERY high
by Mr. Banned on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 20:24 UTC

Ok... So I've been following the whole Pegasos thing for awhile, and thought that MorphOS looked like a fun little diversion (although YD Linux would likely be my 1st choice for this board), but the prices they're asking are f'in ridiculous!

I followed the link to the picture of that Big ol' butterfly sh*tting out the eagle (That's what it looks like! They should really come up with a better logo), and the followed the links down to resellers, and finally to the good ol' US of A.

There's 2 vendors listed for the USA, and of those 2, only one contains prices. And unless I misunderstood the ad, they're asking $725.00 for the motherboard + a 1Ghz G4 CPU!

Can someone verify if this is correct? There's NO way that this is going to be a success at those prices. By the time you throw in a video card, hard drive, case and so on, you'll be well over a grand for this thing.

You can get an AMD 64 3000+ CPU & motherboard for only $360 (less than half the cost of the Pegasos MB & CPU!), which will obviously blow this thing away performance-wise. Not to mention that the new AMD64's with less cache are now being released at even cheaper prices.

I know that PPC's have historically done more with less horsepower than their x86 counterparts, but come on...

Sorry, I was strongly considering a Pegasos system as an alternative desktop system (keeping my 3Ghz P4 next to it for video editing and such), but at these costs, there's no way I'll even consider it.

Hell, with that kinda pricing, I could build a killer dual CPU box for the same as, or less than I could build a single CPU 1Ghz Pegasos-based system.

I can understand that niche players such as this have to charge more due to their "fledgling" status, but with these kind of prices, they'll never sell enough to begin dropping their prices.

Perhaps when these are going for $50 on Ebay in a year or two I'll pick one up to play with, but for now their pricing's just to ridiculous for me to even consider.

Apple Prices
by Nathan O. on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 20:43 UTC

Might as well just get an Apple if it's $725 for the MB and CPU...

High Prices of Pegasos
by Al Hartman on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 20:50 UTC

I agree with you on the prices.

It would seem to me the way to make these boards cheaper would have been to put sockets on the boards to use existing Apple G3/G4 cpu's that are in the market in droves.

Most of the price of these boards (and the similar AmigaONE) is the CPU. For which they pay a premium because they are buying VERY small quantities.

If they had taken advantage of Apple's (and add-on vendors) large quantity buying power, they could sell the logic boards with an OS for $250 or so, and let people buy their own CPU.

I can get a G4 700mhz CPU from OtherWorld Computing for $199.00

Many people in this industry miss the idea that you make more money selling 100,000 units at a $25.00 profit than 5,000 units at a $100.00 profit.

I would love to buy one of these or the AOne myself. But not at these prices.

I bought a fully built up G4/350 Apple machine for $450.00

Even adding the faster processor would keep it below the cost of the logic board for this system, no less a fully built up unit.

The high price is going to doom the Pegasos II and the AOne to obscurity.

Question
by Beck on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 21:07 UTC

Is it possible to run Mac OS X on the Pegasos?

Prices
by oGALAXYo on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 21:07 UTC

The last prices that I am aware of is:

Pegasos2 + G3/0600 Mhz = 299 USD
Pegasos2 + G4/1000 Mhz = 499 USD

Including Backplate and MorphOS on CD-Rom.

Disclaimer: I am not to be held responsible for wrong values. They may (or may not) have changed meanwhile.

Prices!
by bbrv on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 21:07 UTC

Admittedly we are getting killed by the strength of the Euro. One Euro is almost $1.25. Last year the conversion rate was much better.

The G4 Pegasos II runs at 1.3 GHz.

This is still a "geek" machine, but we think we can and will change that perception soon. There are now 17 Operating Systems running on Pegasos platforms.

R&B
Genesi

@Beck
by oGALAXYo on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 21:09 UTC

> Is it possible to run Mac OS X on the Pegasos?

Yes it is possible - For a complete list of supported OS' look here: http://www.pegasosppc.com/operating_systems.php

A lot of people seems to forget that you cannot build, SELL AND promote 100 000 NEW machines totaly incompatible with current computers unless you call yourself Sony and have plenty of money...

And remember: this is only the start... Future looks good ;)

Go, GO !!

Regards,
Leo.

@oGALAXYo
by Beck on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 21:24 UTC

They say it can be run on the Pegasos through the emulation...Hm.What type of emulation?

re: @oGALAXYo
by Mr. Banned on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 21:26 UTC

They say it can be run on the Pegasos through the emulation...Hm.What type of emulation?

I'm guessing via Mac-on-Linux. Can anyone confirm if there's other methods?

@Beck, Mr. Banned
by oGALAXYo on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 21:30 UTC

Yes MOL is the last status of what I know. I know of someone who runs it on Framebuffer and he told me it performs better than on a similar Mac Machine. I also heard of people working on some native solutions but well these are more roumors rather than physical facts.

Prices / Mac OS X
by Nate Downes on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 21:56 UTC

The current price for a G4 Pegasos, valid as of 4:55pm EST:

$618.31

This is due to the strength of the Euro and weakness of the Dollar.

The cost in Euros is 499 for the G4 model, so you can keep an up-to-date accounting of this.

As for Mac OS X, one can run it or a selection of other OS's on the Pegasos using Mac On Linux.

RE: <gasp> Pricing is <ack> VERY high
by ajvdvegt on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 21:56 UTC

In Holland the G4/1000Mhz costs 593,81 euro, the G3/600Mhz 355,81 euro.
In Luxenburg they are only sold as a complete kit, with 17" CRT monitor, 40GB HDD, ATi Radeon 9200 and 256 MB mem for a whopping 1149 euro.

17 operating systems?
by Anonymouse on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 22:59 UTC

As far as I can tell it's 7 so far. Nine more potential operating systems and three through emulation. Oh, and AmigaOS (or even AmigaDE) is not in an early stage of being ported to Pegasos, unless you count people shouting "we want it" as an early stage.

If I were to be extremely kind I'd say 9 total so far, since the MOL system runs so well it's almost as good as native. However, AmigaOS 3.x is going to be with emulated CPU and thus quite a bit slower. At least till Bernie works his magic.

The reasons for buying a pegasos
by amigamad on Tue 23rd Dec 2003 23:28 UTC

This is a new platform and puts the fun back into computing, morphos is a very modern and upto date fast responsive operating system and unlike windows it is very stable updates are constant and it will run most of your amiga software including a lot of your old ppc software .While the initial price might seem high you have to understand that they are made in smaller quantitys than a standard pc motherboard, also these motherboards are selling as fast as they are produced there is a lot of new software being developed there are 100,s of developers already .getting help or advice from the people who make and market this is easy and any problems you have will be solved easily by polite and friendly people.they also have a good software bundle called the Superbundle which once registered you can download for free.Sometime next year i am hoping to get one myself i have seen this develop far quicker than any other new platform and due to the exellent support this is a platform wich is gaining new fans very fast .A pc with windows might do the job but theres doing a job and doing a job properly.

There really are 17!
by bbrv on Wed 24th Dec 2003 00:06 UTC


We will make them all public in a couple of weeks when the Pegasos II is out and about long enough...:-)

R&B

P.S. We are counting nine different versions of Linux!

RE
by Jean-Louis on Wed 24th Dec 2003 00:40 UTC

PegasosII looks great ! .... and with so much OS supported
this is even better ;)

Will AmigaOS be really ported to it ? With it running on
PegII that may conflict with the AOne ....

Cheers,

jean-louis

When will Pegasos support G5's?
by Ed on Wed 24th Dec 2003 01:07 UTC

Preferably in SMP configurations. Those Marvell controllers they are based on are quite capable (compared with other contemporary PC and Mac chipsets). I hope Genesi seriously considers the possibilities for visualization and gaming workstations and not limit themselves to MicroATX boards.

-- Ed

RE: <gasp>
by Rodney Mcdonell on Wed 24th Dec 2003 02:39 UTC

>>Sorry, I was strongly considering a Pegasos system as an
>>alternative desktop system (keeping my 3Ghz P4 next to it
>>for video editing and such), but at these costs, there's no
>>way I'll even consider it.

Yer, i was considering them too untill i found out how powerful and cheap AMD are. At least the pegasos machines are a lot cheaper than the AmigaOne. I used to like it, and i still do, but at those prices, woooohhooooo, they speak for them selvs, and they say "dont buy me you little prat, im far too expensive" ;)

Seriously though, PPC is ummmm.. very alternative, and like linux, they are exclusive in a way. Many people feel exclusive using linux compared to Windows (as i do a little bit) and the same goes for PPC i'd imagine. ATM these systems dont hold much promoise for anyone, they're using oldish CPUs and their pricess are quite high. Long story short, they're not going to get a lot of people outside their own communityies interested in these machines. So far, i think the AmigaOne mini-itx board prolly holds most interest out side of the community and thats because of its size, and being the only PPC mini-itx board in the world. but again, its a geek thing. People will pay higher prices to be more exclusive, or more geeky. But with Apple who have cheaper machines (than the Amigaone) and faster processors for those M/GHz Freaks and a wider array of operating systems, i dont see them putting much presure on apple. They've gota find that killer app!

But lets not forget, they are for the MorphOS and Amiga communities thus far, and may not break the community banks for a while to come.

> untill i found out how powerful and cheap AMD are.

Where've you been, under a rock? Since when has AMD been a well kept secret?

Bah
by AdmV0rl0n on Wed 24th Dec 2003 10:05 UTC

Some comments

1. G4/G5 always looks good in theory/on paper against X86, so far has always struggled to actually be really better. And its almost always been more costly.

2. Strong Euro. The Euro is a disaster for all of europe. Heavy handed interest rates are the reason for the high euro. Crushing business and growth. Wonder why so many europeans are out of work. Add then the red tape and utter buffoonary of the idiots who run the EU gravy train and you should not be surprised. And don't bother saying how nice the euro is, a lot of prices rose mysteriously overnight when it went it. Money is no use to anyone when you have less of it and it makes you poorer.


3. Sorry for a lack of Xmas spirit, but its a tad mysterious that these motherboards get distributed right when the holidays begin, and thus are not likely to actually move very far until the new year. How very ... convenient.


AdmV

Shipping!
by bbrv on Wed 24th Dec 2003 12:04 UTC

Complete report coming soon!

UPS just picked up packages destined for Japan, Italy, Germany, France, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Belgium, Hungary, Holland, Spain, Canada, Turkey, Australia (with one for New Zealand), Poland, Luxembourg and the UK and USA (including Hawaii!)

Hopefully they will all be there soon!

:-)

R&B

Missing the point
by Smartpatrol on Wed 24th Dec 2003 12:17 UTC

This is great news! I have always wanted to be able to pick up a PPC architecture CPU motherboard combo that uses industry standards. Like when the ATX Alpha mother boards came out. This to me is still the least expensive choice to run PPC hardware(compaired to buying a mac or an IBM based workstation) with my choice of hardware options. Couple this with a new OS specifically designed for the platform? AWESOME!

Re: high prices
by Kon on Wed 24th Dec 2003 12:25 UTC

Anyone complaining about high prices for these boards really needs to get a clue. Small production runs are always more expensive. We've done production runs for PCI cards that came out to $1500 per card, just as a odd-ball comparison. This stuff is not cheap to design or recoup on, and comparing the pegasos boards to an intel or amd board+cpu in terms of price is just plain senseless.

Profit and Loss
by Don Cox on Wed 24th Dec 2003 13:03 UTC

"Many people in this industry miss the idea that you make more money selling 100,000 units at a $25.00 profit than 5,000 units at a $100.00 profit."

It's better to sell 100 boards at a profit of $100 each than 100,000 at a loss of $10 each. It always makes sense to introduce a new product at a high price, to be sure the starting costs are covered.

Cash flow is what keeps a business going, not "market share".

re: Kon
by Mr. Banned on Wed 24th Dec 2003 13:22 UTC

Anyone complaining about high prices for these boards really needs to get a clue... This stuff is not cheap to design or recoup on, and comparing the pegasos boards to an intel or amd board+cpu in terms of price is just plain senseless.

How does using logic when comparing performance/cost to competitive products mean that we're being senseless??

You can argue all you want about design costs, niche markeys, and small production runs all you want, but if the stuff's outrageously priced when compared to machines with 3 times the horsepower, you have to wonder who's going to buy enough of these to warrant support, and/or another production run.

You can be an elitist geek all you want, but the reality is that if people don't buy these, there won't be further runs (at hopefully lower costs), nor will there be support if the product's discontinued due to lack of buyers.

I fully understand the reasons why this machine will be more than a mass-produced one (as in Apple, Intel, or AMD-based), but still, no buyers equals no future product.

And while some of us (at least you obviously) are willing to pay for underpowered hardware just to support the "little guy", there's many more of us who can't afford the luxury of doing this if it means we're screwing ourselves out of much needed computing power (This is still a computer we're talking about here... Not some classic car you'll park on a pedestal somewhere to show off to people).

Someone threw out a price for a complete system in Euro's, which at $1.25 exchange rate came out to over $1400 for a MorphOS system (with few commercial titles available it should be pointed out). Here in the states, that kinda cheese will buy one helluva a PC.

I guess we'll see... Perhaps in Europe this will take off -After all, the Amiga never made it as big here as it did there, and the Euro is at an all time high right now. But at over $700 for a MB/CPU combo in the USA, I see this quickly joining the Amiga in the "shoulda but didn't" clearance bin.

Prices are definitely correct in europe
by mahen on Wed 24th Dec 2003 13:37 UTC

Here in France the prices are definitely sensible. From 650 or 800 euros for a complete G3 or G4 pegasos II setup at APS (except the monitor). You could get a faster PC for this price, but for a "geeks" market it isn't necessarily relevant.

I love the fact that I support a better architecture (PPC), an unique system made by passionate people (MorphOS) and the fact that I have access to many others alternative OS'es (AROS, QNX, Linux, BSD, OpenBeOS later, etc).

It makes sense when computing = passion. The difference in power with a PC of the same price only makes sense if you make a big use of very demanding pieces of software...

1.3 G4 is already quite good.

BBRV : do you confirm that all Peg II G4 will be 1.3 ghz ?

Re: Mr. Banned
by Nate Downes on Wed 24th Dec 2003 14:40 UTC

The problem is, the motherboard/CPU combo is *not* over $700. A quick check of the main website reveals that. Unless of course the EU rose in price by 12% in the past 5 minutes, anyways.

nobody buying ?
by amigamad on Wed 24th Dec 2003 14:53 UTC

quote (but still, no buyers equals no future product. )


But there are buyers and lots of them thats why they are selling so many all around the world.

re: Nate Downes
by Mr. Banned on Wed 24th Dec 2003 15:26 UTC

The problem is, the motherboard/CPU combo is *not* over $700. A quick check of the main website reveals that. Unless of course the EU rose in price by 12% in the past 5 minutes, anyways.</

Well, let's see... There's 2 USA-based resellers listed on the Pegasos site: Ultraspec (http://www.ultraspec.us) and Liberty Tree (http://www.libertytreeenterprises.com/).

On Liberty Tree's site, I was unable to find any prices, and admittedly little information on the Pegasos system, while on the Ultraspec site, we have a price given of $725.00 for a G4 based CPU/MB package ($475 for a G3-based one).

Since you're evidently not able to research such items yourself, here's a link to the exact page: http://www.ultraspec.us/p2g4.htm

I don't know what site you're looking at, but either you didn't read my initial posts, or you're seriously misinformed (Or you're trolling rather than spewing facts... Not really sure which it is).

Merry Xmas!

Re: Mr. Banned
by Nate Downes on Wed 24th Dec 2003 16:09 UTC

I am looking at the primary website: http://www.pegasosppc.com/store.php

I see $618.71 right there.

re: Nate Downes
by Mr. Banned on Wed 24th Dec 2003 17:52 UTC

I am looking at the primary website: http://www.pegasosppc.com/store.php

That is cheaper than Ultraspec is selling them for, but I wonder if shipping costs will boost it back up to the $725 range though (overseas shipping and all). Anyone know?

I can't think of any other reason that a reseller would tack on a $100.00 markup




1.3GHz??
by Anonymous on Wed 24th Dec 2003 21:50 UTC

>The G4 Pegasos II runs at 1.3 GHz.

Are you for real?

re: Mr.Banned
by Kon on Thu 25th Dec 2003 15:37 UTC

...
<lots of sensless whining removed>
Someone threw out a price for a complete system in Euro's, which at $1.25 exchange rate came out to over $1400 for a MorphOS system (with few commercial titles available it should be pointed out). Here in the states, that kinda cheese will buy one helluva a PC.
...

Then what you need to do is go out and buy a PC. Problem solved. No amount of jumping up and down will change the fact that a new hardware platform will be introduced at a higher than normal price compared to established platforms. That is simple economics. Referring to geeks or elitists will not change this fact.

Our Thoughts...
by bbrv on Fri 26th Dec 2003 01:13 UTC


Please find our post here:

http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&nid=584

Happy Holidays!

R&B

moneymad ?
by Outcast^ on Sat 27th Dec 2003 00:49 UTC

I've often wonder why Americans make themselves out to be such pawpers ?

Try paying around $5 for a gallon of gas.

Welcome to planet reality.

Fact is.. If you REALLY want something (Anything), you will pay the going rate !!

No good saving a few bob here & there and live a shitty life because of it. Why spread margarine on your toast when butter tastes ..........SO MUCH BETTER !!



ps .. Hows that .. An AmigaONE supporter ( and owner) showing support for Peggies !!